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Xbox Game Studios |OTXI| Grounded in Reality

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Kevin360

Kevin360

OG Direct OP
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,697
I just don't want to sell my PS4 Pro for a PS5 or my One X for the Series X until I know prices.

If I sell them each with some games for $300 or so, I profit $600 and can almost buy one console if they really are $600.

It's crazy, but these new consoles simply being $500 each makes a big difference in what I can swing financially.
 
VeePs

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,402
SilverX said:
Striking first and effectively could literally change things around for them at this point. Going second just to undercut them anyways but with as little loss as they can just doesn't compare.

You seem to think that they have no choice but to announce the price after Sony, maybe MS thinks it as well. But the worst case scenario is the XSX being the same price as the PS5 because realistically Sony doesn't need to be cheaper. I have no idea what the internal discussion is like for MS but maybe they think even having the XSX the same price as the PS5 would be too tough for them to compete with and thats why they are holding out like this.

Remember, the XSX was revealed 8 months ago versus the PS5 being revealed only 2 months ago. I think they should take control of the situation and just go low on the pricing to make their consoles as attractive as possible.

Wasn't that exactly what the July Xbox Showcase was about? That didn't do much despite the many GP additions. There is only so much they can talk about Game Pass when they have a premium console and another open secret console that hasn't been announced and neither have a price in sight.

It is a little bizarre that MS has so much price anxiety when the XSS being significantly weaker than the PS5 and XSX already gives them the entry point price edge.

It honestly feels like Sony is making them sweat it out to effectively give them as little time to market as they can. I doubt they have any intention of being the cheaper competitor when they have so much going for them with their first party games like Miles Morales.


That was the goal just like having Halo Infinite day one on the XSX was the goal, but the dominoes aren't falling as they intended. Right now it feels like they should throw down the gauntlet and price their hardware in a way that is too good to pass up. It is the only area left that they can turn into a huge win, and they know they have to be cheaper anyways.
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You're basically saying if Microsoft goes first and announces the price it would create more hype. But.. I don't see it. Sony would come out the next day and announce the price. Where does that leave them?

You're not really announcing any advantages here.

Microsoft doesn't really gain much by coming out and announcing the price point this month or next month. They designed the Series S, spent millions on it, with a plan - and it seems like that plan relies on Sony announcing the price point first. If Microsoft has to wait before announcing it - I think they are fine with that.

Announcing the Series S and talking about its features a month before launch vs 3 months before launch isn't going to make the difference you think it is. And if they can manage to undercut Sony on the price (if that is there goal - I don't know I'm just guessing), that would create more hype than "going first".
 

More Butter

Banned
Jun 12, 2018
1,890
lost7 said:
I remember the IGN guy (Ryan?) had interviewed Phil a long time ago and someone had mentioned about the importance of price and how they were confident MS was not going to be undercut by the competition again. There is no way they launch at $600, like 0 chance in my book
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It could be that they aren't outpriced but are sandwiching the PS5 price.

599 XSX
549/499 PS5/PS5 DE
349 XSS

I could see this or a modified version of this.

Ideally

549 PS5
499 PS5 DE/ XSX
299 XSS
 
SilverX

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,106
boxingiscool said:
I disagree. Thinks it makes way more sense for them to wait and be flexible. If PS5 is cheapest - for any length of time - it only buries them deeper
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I believe there is no real possibility of the PS5 being cheaper regardless. Interest helps decide price among other factors, and when you look at the interest levels between the PS5 and XSX the writing is on the wall that Sony can get away with a higher price point. That doesn't mean either of them can sell at a profit, but Sony definitely doesn't have to bleed to be competitive or gain interest.

VeePs said:
You're basically saying if Microsoft goes first and announces the price it would create more hype. But.. I don't see it. Sony would come out the next day and announce the price. Where does that leave them?

You're not really announcing any advantages here.

Microsoft doesn't really gain much by coming out and announcing the price point this month or next month. They designed the Series S, spent millions on it, with a plan - and it seems like that plan relies on Sony announcing the price point first. If Microsoft has to wait before announcing it - I think they are fine with that.

Announcing the Series S and talking about its features a month before launch vs 3 months before launch isn't going to make the difference you think it is. And if they can manage to undercut Sony on the price (if that is there goal - I don't know I'm just guessing), that would create more hype than "going first".
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Because you refuse to see it. Can you really say that MS going as low as they realistically can won't be a hype moment for them? And Sony would announce their prices as more expensive or price matched with the XSX console.... does that somehow make them look better? No conceivable way it could.

And the Series S is a much weaker console, how does it's announcement have anything to do with Sony going first? It is going to be cheaper by default.

I'm just telling you the way it is and how Sony is viewing this. Logically, they already see the interest in the platform that they needed to see to feel good about their outlook next gen. If they have to go first and announce the price, they probably don't mind at all. But since they could announce the price and get the gaming world to stop what they're doing and pre-order at the drop of a hat, they are going to do it on their time and in a way where it gives MS less time to work with just for the hell of it. They're not the ones under pressure between the two of them, and the less time MS has to market then the worse it is for them. With their two summer showcases being mostly criticized and Halo Infinite being delayed to 2021, they really need to try to get the platform back in a positive spotlight and pushing big news out as far as they can just isn't doing them any favors now.
 
Krombopulos_MK

Krombopulos_MK

Member
Mar 19, 2020
1,325
Ya'll are wrong.
XSX - $500
XSS - $350 but a GameCube and a copy of Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg are pack ins.*
Heck of a deal they made with Sega to get that done.

*only at GameStop
 
Goldstick

Goldstick

Member
Jun 6, 2019
431
Porto, Portugal
I don't my know if this already crossed someone's mind, but I have a little conspiracy theory regarding the leaked prices.

So, we already think that both Sony and Microsoft are waiting for the other one to announce the price so they can undercut the price of their console.
With this in mind, it is possible that the 600$ leaked for Xbox can be a bait by Microsoft to force Sony to comfortably announce the price of PS5 at 500$ for example.
Then Microsoft can officially announce their price at 450$ or 400$.

I know this is dumb, it's just something that crossed my mind.
 
HgS

HgS

Member
Dec 13, 2019
586
Era puts more thought into the price of consoles then the companies launching them I suspect. There is no pricing stand-off, we're waiting because they're expensive and both Sony and MS want to do their best to pitch the best case for it they can before announcing it.

They've already used a shit ton of data to model out their initial console sales. They don't need preorder info to allocate stock, especially once their stock is in national/continental distribution centres where small adjustments can be done quickly.
 
Greent4

Greent4

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
Charlotte, NC
HgS said:
Era puts more thought into the price of consoles then the companies launching them I suspect. There is no pricing stand-off, we're waiting because they're expensive and both Sony and MS want to do their best to pitch the best case for it they can before announcing it.

They've already used a shit ton of data to model out their initial console sales. They don't need preorder info to allocate stock, especially once their stock is in national/continental distribution centres where small adjustments can be done quickly.
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I agree with this
These consoles have the power to run games at 4k on pcs that cost over a grand there's no way theyre below 599 or even 499
 
JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
SilverX said:
1. Because they are launching the same month as a competitor that has a clear lead in interest and now they are missing the key game launch that they banked on to move Xboxs in November.
2. I'm being real here, Sony has no pressure to announce the price. They will still sell more even if they are the more expensive product, but they are mostly competing with their internal expectations rather than MS here. Outselling the PS4 seems like the bigger concern for them in all honesty.



It's foolish because time really isn't on their side anymore. Before they were going to launch the console with the biggest franchise they had, that was always the plan. Now it seems like their only option is to price as low as they can go since the November launch seems like a one-sided battle now.



You are forgetting this one

(3) No pressure to announce the price and due to economic instability in the market, they can wait and watch.

Sony mostly understands that the PS5 has the interest they were hoping for before fully announcing it so they are being smart about price. The reaction to MS's prices could sway them in another way, but the recession outlook as we head deeper into the shopping quarter could be something they're monitoring at the same time.

I do think they have nothing to worry about given the interest we have seen from their hardware and software reveals, but taking as long as they can is definitely something only they can afford right now. MS on the other hand has to be smart and fast with stopping the interest loss.
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tenor.gif

Definitely still feels like ridiculous war-ish hypotheticals, some of you all put more mental effort (gymnastics) into this than the companies themselves.
 

solis74

Member
Jun 11, 2018
43,497
Albert Penello said:
It's very easy to be an armchair quarterback and what I don't know is the impact of COVID to the plans, realistically. So I don't want to cast too much shade.

On hardware I'll probably be more critical of Sony, which always gets me in trouble. I think from a hardware and platform perspective we know more about Xbox than PS5. I have a clearer picture of back compat, accessories, game upgrades, etc. Partially for anyone that owns an X1X, the story is very similar so you can easily believe the claims Xbox is making. For PlayStation this story is fuzzier - they have a more spotty history around Back Compat so I just have less confidence there and if I were Sony I'd be more clear here especially as you're leading up to holiday game launches. Should I buy the PS4 version or wait? Will it work *for sure*? I don't know. Same with the variable clock rates - maybe it will be better, maybe it will have some sort of trade-off we don't know about. So I think Xbox has done better on the HW side.

On games - clearly Sony has done better here. Everything has been shown on PS5, that messaging has been clear. The games look great, I have a feel for what I'm going to get. I don't need to rehash the Xbox side but in terms of selling performance I think they could be doing better on that.

I think this messaging around "believing in generations" is such BS. The approaches are very similar, although nuanced, and I think that's getting overblown in a way that makes me cringe a bit.

I think they take equal criticism for the pricing game but I understand that. :)

So in short there you go. I think Xbox has done better with hardware and platform feature messaging, and Sony has done better on Games messaging.
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very true.
 
SilverX

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,106
JINX said:
tenor.gif

Definitely still feels like ridiculous war-ish hypotheticals, some of you all put more mental effort (gymnastics) into this than the companies themselves.
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You're going to have to explain a bit more because you basically re-posted your message I responded to but added a gif and a "mental gymnastics" plug in. I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make.
 
Secretofmateria

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
SilverX said:
Announcing today, you mean later this month as intended? They can get hype by having pre-orders open, they'll have time to market each of the two Series consoles and explain the advantages of each one, and just plainly stop the bleeding from the Halo delay with nice price points.

Standing still after moving Halo Infinite to 2021 not only keeps the interest deflated (hell lots of people are still not over it) but it makes them look like a deer caught in the headlights.
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they dont need to announce price, but the silence is only hurting them. as of now, there is no marquee launch game with the system, thats fucking massive. They need to be speaking to who ever will listen right now as to why its still worthwhile to buy a series x this holiday. Instead they doubled down on less communication by getting rid of the xbox 2020 stuff.

im excited for the system, but im also Very dissapointed that there will not be a major showcase launch game. They are essentially selling the system this year on the promise that games will come, not games that will come out with the system, they were caught with their pants down with this launch, and the longer they dont say anything, the worse it looks.
 
JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
SilverX said:
You're going to have to explain a bit more because you basically re-posted your message I responded to but added a gif and a "mental gymnastics" plug in. I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make.
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Clearly, if anyone thinks either Sony or MS are going to take unnecessary losses, leave pre-orders/release information incredibly late, act cocky/defensive/reactionary or feel the need to stem some "bleeding" by throwing sense, money and messaging to the wind because of their current short term position or comparison to it's competitors. Then they need to realise they're business that have to act responsibly, if they thought like some people on this forum they would truly fill the silly arch-rivals or out for each others throats nonsense. Never mind people prescribing emotions to faceless, opaque corporations.
 
larryfox

larryfox

Member
Apr 27, 2020
1,071
I'd give everyone in this OT $600 if series x cost that much, that's how confident I am it won't be that expensive.
 
SilverX

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,106
Secretofmateria said:
they dont need to announce price, but the silence is only hurting them. as of now, there is no marquee launch game with the system, thats fucking massive. They need to be speaking to who ever will listen right now as to why its still worthwhile to buy a series x this holiday. Instead they doubled down on less communication by getting rid of the xbox 2020 stuff.

im excited for the system, but im also Very dissapointed that there will not be a major showcase launch game. They are essentially selling the system this year on the promise that games will come, not games that will come out with the system, they were caught with their pants down with this launch, and the longer they dont say anything, the worse it looks.
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Yes, which is why I compared it to them looking like a deer caught in the headlights with how they delayed their key game and pushed their news farther out in response. But they just can't pull a AAA first party game out of a hat s there is not much they can say. Its too close to launch and there is no chance they have Gears 6 or Fable finished and ready to take the place in November.

Which is why PRICE is so important and something that could easily steal back some thunder. The fact that they are waiting for Sony's lead before even thinking about mentioning price is only going to drag on the silence, and I think Sony is well aware and letting the days be used up to pile the weight on them as the launches near.

At this point Xbox has a lot of people to still win over and they are have to move beyond the general Halo delay depression atmosphere surrounding the XSX.

JINX said:
Clearly, if anyone thinks either Sony or MS are going to take unnecessary losses, leave pre-orders/release information incredibly late, act cocky/defensive/reactionary or feel the need to stem some "bleeding" by throwing sense, money and messaging to the wind because of their current short term position or comparison to it's competitors. Then they need to realise they're business that have to act responsibly, if they thought like some people on this forum they would truly fill the silly arch-rivals or out for each others throats nonsense. Never mind people prescribing emotions to faceless, opaque corporations.
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I wouldn't call any loses the XSX takes to be competitive as "unnecessary" as they just delayed the very game they were building the launch around. Also, have you forgotten the many price reduction "sales" the Xbox One had throughout the years that lasted most the year and the many times they did the"buy an Xbox and get any game you please with it" promo? Those were steep cuts they took, but they were necessary to not be completely killed in the market. To you though they weren't bleeding in any way though... companies don't do that.

Of course they do, corporations are run by people who need to react and make painful decisions. Thats part of the responsibility. The last few weeks should have showed you that things don't go as planned sometimes and reactions could be worse than you anticipated. You just can't say "Oh well, better luck next time I hope?"

MS has a lot of pressure on them now and they are going to have to make some costly moves they probably would choose not to do if they had the option since they just can't ship out the XSX without Halo and think no one will notice its not there. Thats just how business works.
 
Prine

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Secretofmateria said:
they dont need to announce price, but the silence is only hurting them. as of now, there is no marquee launch game with the system, thats fucking massive. They need to be speaking to who ever will listen right now as to why its still worthwhile to buy a series x this holiday. Instead they doubled down on less communication by getting rid of the xbox 2020 stuff.

im excited for the system, but im also Very dissapointed that there will not be a major showcase launch game. They are essentially selling the system this year on the promise that games will come, not games that will come out with the system, they were caught with their pants down with this launch, and the longer they dont say anything, the worse it looks.
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Not necessarily. Those who are going to buy it regardless (Xbox base) is who they're likely expecting to carry sales. It'll sell out like all consoles do near launch, and they'll focus heavily on the causals in 21. Not ideal, but not irreparable, especially if they come in at a price/value advantage which they most likely will. Most of this will be forgotten next year once Halo and others start to hit XSX. Gaming being the luxury it is, and considering the incoming recession, the potential to sell to non-Xbox gamers is probably limited this year anyway. MS dont have the same social media interest as Sony either, if anything people are looking at them at this moment not MS.
 
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tbassett

tbassett

Member
Jan 8, 2019
623
If I'm Microsoft I wait till Sony. Sony basically won this generation by allowing Microsoft go first.

Remember devs were really against used games at the beginning of the gen. Rumors were both Sony and Microsoft were going to implement systems to combat that and have always online, etc.

Sony was afforded the luxury to see the backlash and adjust. Microsoft also has other issues obviously with Kinect etc. but I don't think it would have been as bad if they had waited
 
Prine

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
tbassett said:
If I'm Microsoft I wait till Sony. Sony basically won this generation by allowing Microsoft go first.

Remember devs were really against used games at the beginning of the gen. Rumors were both Sony and Microsoft were going to implement systems to combat that and have always online, etc.

Sony was afforded the luxury to see the backlash and adjust. Microsoft also has other issues obviously with Kinect etc. but I don't think it would have been as bad if they had waited
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MS was the clear winner last gen between the two in terms of console business, 3rd party sales, online revenue etc it behoved MS to come out and set the price, both to consumers and their partners. Now that's expected of Sony. So MS are in a position where they can wait, something their competition cannot do as comfortably, all eyes are on PS5, one of the blessings of being a runner up I guess.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
who's pumped for all these new release coming out? Kinda stoked to see tell me why and the dlc for outer worlds. Even slightly excited for w3
 
Cyclonesweep

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
I still think that the prices haven't been announced yet because of the way supply chains are and the world economy is they may not actually know the cost yet? Both are playing so coy with details I feel like both are kind of just shrugging trying to figure things out still. I don't think there is a price faceoff or anything. More likely than not the price is going to be high and both are just afraid to announce it.
 
knightmawk

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
7,528
Always good to see people harping about how Xbox needs to convince people to buy consoles this holiday, despite Phil Spencer repeatedly saying they're not obsessed about selling consoles at launch.

The next Xbox could have a very long tail as first parties ramp up and add more stuff to Game Pass, and people are able to try it out over a pretty low barrier using last gen consoles and mobile phones.
 
ThatNerdGUI

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,565
A $600 XSX means I'll skip it until a price drop just like I did with the PS3 and I have 0 interest in Lokchart.
 
JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
SilverX said:
Yes, which is why I compared it to them looking like a deer caught in the headlights with how they delayed their key game and pushed their news farther out in response. But they just can't pull a AAA first party game out of a hat s there is not much they can say. Its too close to launch and there is no chance they have Gears 6 or Fable finished and ready to take the place in November.

Which is why PRICE is so important and something that could easily steal back some thunder. The fact that they are waiting for Sony's lead before even thinking about mentioning price is only going to drag on the silence, and I think Sony is well aware and letting the days be used up to pile the weight on them as the launches near.

At this point Xbox has a lot of people to still win over and they are have to move beyond the general Halo delay depression atmosphere surrounding the XSX.



I wouldn't call any loses the XSX takes to be competitive as "unnecessary" as they just delayed the very game they were building the launch around. Also, have you forgotten the many price reduction "sales" the Xbox One had throughout the years that lasted most the year and the many times they did the"buy an Xbox and get any game you please with it" promo? Those were steep cuts they took, but they were necessary to not be completely killed in the market. To you though they weren't bleeding in any way though... companies don't do that.

Of course they do, corporations are run by people who need to react and make painful decisions. Thats part of the responsibility. The last few weeks should have showed you that things don't go as planned sometimes and reactions could be worse than you anticipated. You just can't say "Oh well, better luck next time I hope?"

MS has a lot of pressure on them now and they are going to have to make some costly moves they probably would choose not to do if they had the option since they just can't ship out the XSX without Halo and think no one will notice its not there. Thats just how business works.
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Teuthex

Teuthex

Member
May 31, 2019
450
larryfox said:
I'd give everyone in this OT $600 if series x cost that much, that's how confident I am it won't be that expensive.
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I'll PM you my PayPal details when the time comes ; P

$600 USD... $836.00 AUD. And that's just a straight conversion, no "Australia Tax". Yuck. And I am also needing a new TV, because my old plasma has developed some vertical lines of dead pixels :'(
 
CornIsGood

CornIsGood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
808
Considering the hardware $600 isn't unreasonable but I still think it's asking too much for a console. I'm banking on $499.
 
shenden

shenden

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,326
$600 wouldn't suprise me at all and I'm ok with that price, BUT again, they're not getting a single dime until they really start blowing out information about these machines. $600 would be quite hefty if true and to ask for that without games backing up/showing the supposed next-gen tech and it's visual fidelity compared to the current one and until that happens, they're not getting my money. Services is 50%, so is software
 
shanew21

shanew21

Member
Nov 7, 2017
516
PS5 $599
XSX $599, *maybe $499*
PS5 DE $499
XSS $299, maybe $349

That's my guess. Lockhart is dead on arrival if it's only $100 cheaper than the digital edition PS5. Huge power gap and also a digital system. Wouldn't make sense.

My thought on the delay is MS didn't anticipate the digital edition and they're trying to find a way to price it similar to that.
 
Heretic

Heretic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,959
I still can't see them pricing the Series S at $299. MS always overprices their hardware.
 
VeePs

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,402
Jerm411 said:
Curious to learn more about All Access, I guess it'll all be done online? Can't imagine you'd be able to go through retailers for this....
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Currently Amazon and Best Buy (USA): xbox-all-access

Not sure if you can go to a local Best Buy and ask about it tho, but maybe? I could also see them expanding this program when Series X launches, I think Shinobi? (honestly could've been someone else so don't quote me) said All-Access would get a big marketing push.
 
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