World of Warcraft: Shadowlands |OT| Anima Crossing: New Prison

[Rhaknar]

• The team wants to move towards a world where the race of a character is not an inhibitor to what class you can play.
• Rogues, mages, and priests will be available for all races on launch of 10.0
• Classes that require more work with custom forms and animations will most likely be thought of and added over time.

the day of the gnome druid draws near!

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Draenei warlock with eredar skin customisation

 

[LordRuyn]

Not a big Asmongold fan, but I have to say that the interview was pretty good and addressed some pretty interesting stuff.

EDIT:

 

[Z-Beat]

We gonna deal with the fact that a majority of the scourge are now running wild without the helmet?

 

[Berordn]

We gonna deal with the fact that a majority of the scourge are now running wild without the helmet?

Click to shrink...

well see we killed the jailer so everything is fine because reasons

what sword

 

[Royalan]

Speaking canon, there really shouldn't be that much scourge left.

But imo the bigger question (that I would be surprised if WoW actually tackled)...is what even is the point of Forsaken now?

Why would/should anyone be OK with creating more Forsaken?

 

[Z-Beat]

Speaking canon, there really shouldn't be that much scourge left.

But imo the bigger question (that I would be surprised if WoW actually tackled)...is what even is the point of Forsaken now?

Why would/should anyone be OK with creating more Forsaken?

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They shouldn't be. There was a whole thing about whether or not the forsaken had the right to exist and Garrosh chewing Sylvanas out for raising more to maintain their numbers because that was fucked up. Garnish was also planning to use them as cannon fodder against the alliance during Cataclysm if Sylvanas had stayed dead.

We all assumed Sylvanas would die or allow Arthas' sister to teach them to be lightforged forsaken but...

I guess we could fill that plot hole with the arbiter allowing damned souls to serve as Forsaken I'm exchange for not getting sent to the maw

Or any self aware scourge now free of the helm can join the forsaken

But that still begs the question of lesser scourge who are full on rabid zombies

 

[ToTheMoon]

Garnish

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This typo is now canon.

 

[Z-Beat]

This typo is now canon.

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Garnish Hells Cream

 

[Strafer]

Draenei warlock with eredar skin customisation

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YES

 

[Gavalanche]

Speaking canon, there really shouldn't be that much scourge left.

But imo the bigger question (that I would be surprised if WoW actually tackled)...is what even is the point of Forsaken now?

Why would/should anyone be OK with creating more Forsaken?

Click to shrink...

Well, it almost becomes a right issue then doesn't it. Because the Forsaken see themselves as essentially a separate people, and have their own capital city, their own growing culture, etc etc. They can't grow their numbers by breeding and have to use necromancy instead, but if they don't do that they will eventually become extinct, so the argument becomes what is worst; continuing to raise people, or let this sapient humanoid people die out.

It would be funny if characters had a card that gave permission to raise them if they died, similar to how we have them for organ donation and whatnot.

Anyway, I find it an interesting moral question that I am sure has been done elsewhere. but it is interesting nonetheless.

 

[Strafer]

I would honestly love if you could change the skin to any color, a blue orc, or a green tauren.

Yes please.

 

[Lashley]

They're making all the right changes, please keep it up

 

[Cort]

I just had an idea, idk if anyone has brought up anything like this before....

The idea of trash in raids is a contested idea with players either wanting it vs players just flat out removing it.

Lets say Khadgar is in a Dragonflight raid. He can offer a quest to collect 6 primalist shards or w/e. This could only be collected off of the mini boss before the final boss of the raid. Once you collect 6 shards and the quest is turned in, Khadgar can be useful (unlike Bolvar/Thrall/Sylvanas/Jaina in Sepulcher) and kill the shit out of all the trash mobs for the raid.

You know, similar to the boss skips that we have now, but make one for trash too.

 

[Sinkfloridasink]

The last expansion I played through was warlords of draenor, by my calculation I have Legion, Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands to play through.

I am a bit confused though on how to go about starting "fresh" with each expansion. The level crunch confuses me, and in my short times resubbing I've very quickly outleveled the zones I am in.

Is the game still balanced to progress "normally" through each expansion?

 

[Wunder]

The last expansion I played through was warlords of draenor, by my calculation I have Legion, Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands to play through.

I am a bit confused though on how to go about starting "fresh" with each expansion. The level crunch confuses me, and in my short times resubbing I've very quickly outleveled the zones I am in.

Is the game still balanced to progress "normally" through each expansion?

Click to shrink...

No, with the level squish they have a new addition called "Chromie Time" that allows you to level through an expansion without outlevelling anything. Chromie Time needs to be activated so outside of that you have normal Zone Scaling which still goes far above what it used to and should scale a decent way but you might have hit the top end of something like the Barrens or Stonetalon if you're 30+.

The only mandatory levelling experience will be Shadowlands which is where you go once you hit 50

 

[Einherjer]

No, with the level squish they have a new addition called "Chromie Time" that allows you to level through an expansion without outlevelling anything. Chromie Time needs to be activated so outside of that you have normal Zone Scaling which still goes far above what it used to and should scale a decent way but you might have hit the top end of something like the Barrens or Stonetalon if you're 30+.

The only mandatory levelling experience will be Shadowlands which is where you go once you hit 50

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Last time i played Battle for Azeroth was also mandatory for first timers only after you completed it you could play in Chromie Time.

 

[Wunder]

Yeah it looks like you can only activate Chromie Time if you levelled from 1-50 on a character without it, so looking at the Zone Scaling part of the guide it looks like Classic, Burning Crusade and Wrath all go to 10-30, then Cata and MoP for another 5 levels and then it goes expansion to expansion (WoD, Legion, BFA) until Shadowlands at 50.

 

[Deleted member 93841]

The last expansion I played through was warlords of draenor, by my calculation I have Legion, Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands to play through.

I am a bit confused though on how to go about starting "fresh" with each expansion. The level crunch confuses me, and in my short times resubbing I've very quickly outleveled the zones I am in.

Is the game still balanced to progress "normally" through each expansion?

Click to shrink...

One thing that a lot of people forget about is that you can level lock your character if you want to play through the expansions' stories without outleveling the zones. There are Experience Eliminator NPCs in both capital cities. Might be worth looking into if you'd like to stay appropriately leveled for each zone.

 

[Strafer]

Oh wow, have a character that still wears the old starting priest robe, the white and blue one. Saving that one for the transmog in Dragonflight, since you can now transmog white stuff.

I also have the old Blood Elf warrior starting armor, the red and yellow. Very nice.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

Well I was able to get Aeonaxx, the Grey Camel and Voidtalon which I completely forgot existed all within a few days of just farming through Chromie Time. So now I switched over to farming some unique rare drops like Chromatic Sword since I still don't have the mog, I have killed Scale Belly 78 times over the last few days cycling 4 distinct instances with characters on two servers and still no sword. Maddening.

 

[eathdemon]

yeah this isnt great, even if you dont care about world first race, having one of the top 5 teams have to bow out like this is extremly bad, and it shows how badly messed up wow's end game is.

 

[JCizzle]

yeah this isnt great, even if you dont care about world first race, having one of the top 5 teams have to bow out like this is extremly bad, and it shows how badly messed up wow's end game is.

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I honestly don't really understand the point of designing the raids around guilds like this. It's such an incredibly small percentage of players deriving a big focus from developers who apparently are stretched thin themselves. Reading the stuff that the guilds do - while impressive - is just so unreasonable for anything close to a normal player. $700 Million in gold for a single tier? Crazy amount of time dedicated to alt runs to funnel gear? I guess it generates free marketing, but geeze it seems like it's driving these players to quit and not worth the extra tuning time. It can be hard for 10% off players instead of 0.001%.

I'm admittedly not into the race so it's easy for me to say.

 

[B-Dubs]

yeah this isnt great, even if you dont care about world first race, having one of the top 5 teams have to bow out like this is extremly bad, and it shows how badly messed up wow's end game is.

Click to shrink...

RWF is run by the community. The top guilds could easily get together and say, "no more buying boe's off the AH or doing an infinite number of splits", or set a specific number of hours of progression a week, and that would fix a lot of the issues here. It would make the race take longer, but it would also make it a bit more even and easier to manage.

 

[Wunder]

Yeah I used to really want Blizzard to support RWF but I'm not sure how great officially supporting 12-16 hours of raiding for weeks would look tbh. And a different format (with tournament realm/pre-geared toons with set broadcast times) also kind of kills the atmosphere around it as well. Maybe some kind of randomized boss rush mode? I guess MDI covers that.

It does suck for the RWF raiders esp when a race goes for weeks but at the same time expecting blizz to perfectly nail an exciting, challenging and mechanically perfect raid with a set number of raid days is also a bit out of the realm of possibility

 

[Royalan]

IMO, focusing on the professional WoW player has been one of Blizz's central problems lately.

 

[Cort]

I honestly don't really understand the point of designing the raids around guilds like this. It's such an incredibly small percentage of players deriving a big focus from developers who apparently are stretched thin themselves. Reading the stuff that the guilds do - while impressive - is just so unreasonable for anything close to a normal player. $700 Million in gold for a single tier? Crazy amount of time dedicated to alt runs to funnel gear? I guess it generates free marketing, but geeze it seems like it's driving these players to quit and not worth the extra tuning time. It can be hard for 10% off players instead of 0.001%.

I'm admittedly not into the race so it's easy for me to say.

Click to shrink...

Yeah something has to change. Sepulcher is easily one of the toughest raids they've released in years and its in service to RWF. And they end up having silly design decisions that circle back to RWF, like the removal of master looter for instance.

 

[B-Dubs]

Honestly, the rwf guys need to set some limitations for themselves. That's the big issue, it's anything goes until the tier is clear. There needs to be some limits on what they're allowed to do and how long they can play on a weekly basis.

I know blizz doesn't want to step in and set rules for them, but then the guilds need to do it themselves. The way the race is currently run isn't working.

Yeah something has to change. Sepulcher is easily one of the toughest raids they've released in years and its in service to RWF. And they end up having silly design decisions that circle back to RWF, like the removal of master looter for instance.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, it's not been that hard on heroic. My guild has been making really good progress on it, it feels far quicker than the last tier at least.

 

[Cort]

Honestly, an invite only tournament run like MDI has would be the most feasible thing for Blizzard to do. Yeah, Blizzard would have to completely take control over RWF but it would be easier for them to regulate it then it would the RWF crew regulating it. This would alleviate a ton of costs that guilds have to dump into the RWF. The only question for Blizzard would be if they think that its worth it to lose out on the RWF money if it meant sustaining the top .5% of guilds.

 

[ToTheMoon]

Honestly, the rwf guys need to set some limitations for themselves. That's the big issue, it's anything goes until the tier is clear. There needs to be some limits on what they're allowed to do and how long they can play on a weekly basis.

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Pieces choosing not to participate in RWF is them setting limits on themselves, essentially. They're saying "Other people can push as hard they want; we're going to play the way we want to."

They're still going to be a top-tier guild I'm sure; they're just not putting the pressure of World First on themselves.

 

[eathdemon]

RWF is run by the community. The top guilds could easily get together and say, "no more buying boe's off the AH or doing an infinite number of splits", or set a specific number of hours of progression a week, and that would fix a lot of the issues here. It would make the race take longer, but it would also make it a bit more even and easier to manage.

Click to shrink...

its still the disginers job to build in some safty rails/limits. the fact they havent is a large part of this. it would help if A dongen gear , via mythic+, wasnt equvlent to horic gear, they added master loot back, and got rid of beos. ironicly that would prity much help players at all levals. if they wanted to go even more, add a full crafted set, and balance mythic around it the way ff14 doees.

 

[hobblygobbly]

i agree with you guys, i've also always thought that blizzard designing so much of the content and systems around the 1% to be extremely bad for your normal average playes and a fool's errand too

also the split runs situation with alts or outside help is a problem created by blizzard themselves, blizzard had a solution to this and it was very simple and worked very well, the emblem/badge system of TBC and WotLK. Just. bring. it. back. I don't understand why it has gone and obviously the Great Vault isn't a good enough replacement because it's not deterministic and item amount is capped.

You could earn badges from heroic dungeon bosses, from dailies, and from raid bosses, the exact amount from each I can't remember right now but heroic dungeon bosses were 1 each. But this allowed you to get the raid-level gear using badges, and deterministically at the same time since you could buy what you wanted specifically. It meant that even when killing raid bosses and nothing dropping for you from the boss, you could at least get the badges from killing the boss (like 3 each?), so you are still rewarded - and when you had enough you could go buy that specific raid-level gear you need with the badges. This system worked perfectly. You could gear up quite nicely, and everyone at their own pace with this - it benefitted even the most casual player to the most competitive.

 

[Cort]

i agree with you guys, i've also always thought that blizzard designing so much of the content and systems around the 1% to be extremely bad for your normal average playes and a fool's errand too

also the split runs situation with alts or outside help is a problem created by blizzard themselves, blizzard had a solution to this and it was very simple and worked very well, the emblem/badge system of TBC and WotLK. Just. bring. it. back. I don't understand why it has gone and obviously the Great Vault isn't a good enough replacement because it's not deterministic and item amount is capped.

You could earn badges from heroic dungeon bosses, from dailies, and from raid bosses, the exact amount from each I can't remember right now but heroic dungeon bosses were 1 each. But this allowed you to get the raid-level gear using badges, and deterministically at the same time since you could buy what you wanted specifically. It meant that even when killing raid bosses and nothing dropping for you from the boss, you could at least get the badges from killing the boss (like 3 each?), so you are still rewarded - and when you had enough you could go buy that specific raid-level gear you need with the badges. This system worked perfectly. You could gear up quite nicely, and everyone at their own pace with this - it benefitted even the most casual player to the most competitive.

Click to shrink...

Badge system is honestly the best system, but it also complimented how gearing used to be. I usually use Cataclysm as an example because Cata perfected it. The first tier is gear with poor itemization. Second tier is a mix of poor and great itemization with a few items with sockets. Last tier is when you get the good stuff, red sockets all over the place (we're talking 14, 15, 16 sockets!) and overpowered as fuck trinkets like those shared Dragon Soul trinkets.

Those badge vendors complimented that. You can get a pair of 397 bracers that had Crit/Mastery on them, but in the end you're going to still want the 397 Spirit/mastery bracers that has a red socket in it. It was a huge boost to your healing, and the only problem I can see them having is that the difference in throughput isn't going to be seen as big given the socket changes since Cata.

People will dog on Cataclysm for everything, but the gearing system for that expansion was exquisite.

 

[Strafer]

I hope two handed shamans make a return

 

[Anoregon]

I hope two handed shamans make a return

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For real. Itemization is pretty much a non-issue and lava lash is I think the only enhance ability that specifically uses the offhand, and I feel like that should not be a very difficult thing to work around.

 

[JCizzle]

I hope two handed shamans make a return

Click to shrink...

Ohhhhhhh hell yes.

 

[eathdemon]

Badge system is honestly the best system, but it also complimented how gearing used to be. I usually use Cataclysm as an example because Cata perfected it. The first tier is gear with poor itemization. Second tier is a mix of poor and great itemization with a few items with sockets. Last tier is when you get the good stuff, red sockets all over the place (we're talking 14, 15, 16 sockets!) and overpowered as fuck trinkets like those shared Dragon Soul trinkets.

Those badge vendors complimented that. You can get a pair of 397 bracers that had Crit/Mastery on them, but in the end you're going to still want the 397 Spirit/mastery bracers that has a red socket in it. It was a huge boost to your healing, and the only problem I can see them having is that the difference in throughput isn't going to be seen as big given the socket changes since Cata.

People will dog on Cataclysm for everything, but the gearing system for that expansion was exquisite.

Click to shrink...

cata had other issues, reforging being a not great system, but mainly dongens requiring more effort than the rewards justified. also thats where the lore started to become very messy. theres good reasson wotlk is still considered wows best xpack, and I dont think its just nestalga.

 

[Royalan]

cata had other issues, reforging being a not great system, but mainly dongens requiring more effort than the rewards justified. also thats where the lore started to become very messy. theres good reasson wotlk is still considered wows best xpack, and I dont think its just nestalga.

Click to shrink...

*cough* Legion *cough*

 

[Cort]

*cough* Legion *cough*

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Its crazy to think about Legion retrospectively.

They added an absurd amount of content to the game. It's not just the artifacts or the class halls, but also the mage tower, the POST master thing, Legion invasions, Legion secrets, that insane Karazhan megadungeon they added, a new class that was requested for years, mythic+, the Nightfallen scenario.

Just insane.

 

[eathdemon]

Its crazy to think about Legion retrospectively.

They added an absurd amount of content to the game. It's not just the artifacts or the class halls, but also the mage tower, the POST master thing, Legion invasions, Legion secrets, that insane Karazhan megadungeon they added, a new class that was requested for years, mythic+, the Nightfallen scenario.

Just insane.

Click to shrink...

but legion also had titanforging, massive artifact power grind, and random drop legendry that made or brock specs, I consider those to be massive drawbacks that wotlk doesnt have. also, im in the group that hates mythic+ and how its effected raiding.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

cata had other issues, reforging being a not great system, but mainly dongens requiring more effort than the rewards justified. also thats where the lore started to become very messy. theres good reasson wotlk is still considered wows best xpack, and I dont think its just nestalga.

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WoTLK was good but I think both Mists and Legion surpassed it personally.


Edit: Also 250 loots between a ton of characters camping Scale Belly over 3 days and still no sword. I'm gonna go crazy.

 

[ToTheMoon]

Edit: Also 250 loots between a ton of characters camping Scale Belly over 3 days and still no sword. I'm gonna go crazy.

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lol... I got it on my first kill actually and thought "Oh wow, it must be a high drop rate!" But I killed him dozens more times and never got another.

Your story makes me appreciate my luck though. :^)

 

[Hippopuncher12]

lol... I got it on my first kill actually and thought "Oh wow, it must be a high drop rate!" But I killed him dozens more times and never got another.

Your story makes me appreciate my luck though. :^)

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I'm not surprised it took me something like 600+ kills to get Invincible.

 

[Gavalanche]

My problem with Legion is that it doesn't have a huge amount of creativity in terms of creature design. I love meeting new crazy races and animals and whatnot. I think thats why I love Burning Legion still, between Arrokoa and Ethereals and Sporelings and whatnot its great. Legion is just another type of elf, another tauren and druid people. It is just kind of.. I don't know, it just feels samey to me. Panderia is also great because it introduced an entirely different culture and landmass.

I wish at some point they would go to another world for some reason and just go nuts on the concept. Just introduce some crazy stuff.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

My problem with Legion is that it doesn't have a huge amount of creativity in terms of creature design. I love meeting new crazy races and animals and whatnot. I think thats why I love Burning Legion still, between Arrokoa and Ethereals and Sporelings and whatnot its great. Legion is just another type of elf, another tauren and druid people. It is just kind of.. I don't know, it just feels samey to me. Panderia is also great because it introduced an entirely different culture and landmass.

I wish at some point they would go to another world for some reason and just go nuts on the concept. Just introduce some crazy stuff.

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I definitely agree with that. BC is really still my favorite expansion because it was just so alien (obviously lol) compared to vanilla plus I am a sucker for things like attunements and long quest lines to get access to stuff which all went away after BC, which I understand most people hate that stuff.

 

[ToTheMoon]

but legion also had titanforging, massive artifact power grind, and random drop legendry that made or brock specs, I consider those to be massive drawbacks that wotlk doesnt have. also, im in the group that hates mythic+ and how its effected raiding.

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Wrath also introduced a lot of controversial things into the game: LFD, quest markers on the map, item level as a formal concept, multiple raid difficulties, "seasonal" raid tiers, less "sticky" talent choices, inconsistent raid quality, etc. :P

Though I agree with you: there are lots of reasons I loved Wrath at the time and am excited for it to come back in Classic! It might be the expansion I sunk the most hours into.

Maybe it's because I've had the WoW expansion debate a thousand times, or maybe it's because I'm a person who enjoys both Shadowlands and Classic depending on my mood, but I've kind of reached the "zen" point with WoW expansions where they each just have their own unique plusses and minuses and offer their own unique experience, and there's no reason for one to be objectively better in all aspects than another.

Like even with WoD (the expansion I've been the most critical of in the past), my main criticism has always been that there was never a good reason to go explore Draenor after the initial leveling... but even that suggests the praise of "Draenor has amazing zones, world design, and kickass lore." Sprinkle in a suite of amazing raid fights and Garrisons being not-terrible-in-a-vacuum, and I even begin to feel a bit nostalgic for aspects of WoD, even if I know it was critical of the expansion at the time.

There's a natural desire to pit WoW expansions against each other, when the truth is that they all have strengths and weaknesses, and are ultimately personal experiences that are going to elicit different reactions from different individuals. So for me, straight statements like "X is better than Y" lose out on all the nuance I know for a fact is there.

 

[Wunder]

It's also very hard to compare expansions for me personally because not only am I at a different point in life with each expansion (with varying free time and thus a different experience/expectation) but I also haven't "stuck" with an expansion since... BC or Wrath? I've been on and off as a sub pretty much around Cata so I've never sat through and experienced a WoW expansion from start to finish for a long ass time.

 

[B-Dubs]

Cata was really good about gearing, you could pretty much get anything you wanted with badges (except the raid weapons/trinkets). If something wouldn't drop for you, it was only a matter of time before you had enough badges to buy it. Raids and heroics both felt useful, like no matter what you did you were able to work towards the same gear.

It feels like they hit the nail on the head with the system, then blew it up, and have been slowly making their way back to it ever since.

Honestly, an invite only tournament run like MDI has would be the most feasible thing for Blizzard to do. Yeah, Blizzard would have to completely take control over RWF but it would be easier for them to regulate it then it would the RWF crew regulating it. This would alleviate a ton of costs that guilds have to dump into the RWF. The only question for Blizzard would be if they think that its worth it to lose out on the RWF money if it meant sustaining the top .5% of guilds.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, this is probably the only way to make it not totally degenerate. The issue is that the people doing the raiding will do whatever it takes to win and will abuse whatever is there to make it happen. The degeneracy is almost built into the competition given it's a literal race and the racers will try and get any advantage they can.

I get why they like the idea that the community will run it themselves, that it's a community thing first and foremost, but the way these guys treat it is unsustainable (no matter what Blizz does) and actively prevents any newcomers from making a splash and being legitimate contenders.

 

[eathdemon]

Cata was really good about gearing, you could pretty much get anything you wanted with badges (except the raid weapons/trinkets). If something wouldn't drop for you, it was only a matter of time before you had enough badges to buy it. Raids and heroics both felt useful, like no matter what you did you were able to work towards the same gear.

It feels like they hit the nail on the head with the system, then blew it up, and have been slowly making their way back to it ever since.


Honestly, this is probably the only way to make it not totally degenerate. The issue is that the people doing the raiding will do whatever it takes to win and will abuse whatever is there to make it happen. The degeneracy is almost built into the competition given it's a literal race and the racers will try and get any advantage they can.

I get why they like the idea that the community will run it themselves, that it's a community thing first and foremost, but the way these guys treat it is unsustainable (no matter what Blizz does) and actively prevents any newcomers from making a splash and being legitimate contenders.

Click to shrink...

but there are ways blizzard could minimize the exess that doesnt negitivly impact normal players. sevral examples are remove beos, release full crafted sets to normalize raid difficulty, add master loot back/use ff14s loot coffer system, and make mythic+ gear only good in mythic+ by having a mythic+ only stat on it. not of those makes the experance worse for normal players, while making the rwf way more sustainable.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Sure hope the content in the coming xpac would be alot better than shadowlands