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MoonPhase

Banned
Feb 2, 2021
58
Europe
Wait? What is the outrage even about? I don't follow Diablo.

from the ERA diablo 2 thread:
The only thing I don't like is some character models. Amazon completely lost her feminine look and looks like bodybuilder :(


It looks so much better than I expected, it blew me away! Not a fan of granny Amazon though.


most is on your usual sites though (4chan)
 
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RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Never overestimate people I guess.

Edit: I wouldn't quote tag people in a way that pings them an alert to this thread personally. If people are going to come in here and defend shitty misogynist takes, at least let them find their way here naturally.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
|OT4| Boobsocks....and pastie plates? Why?

Although sadly by OT4, there will probably be something even more egregious to name the thread after.
 

Godfather

Game on motherfuckers
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,515
Genuine question, do people think things have improved, degraded, or just maintained status quo over the last 10 years?
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Genuine question, do people think things have improved, degraded, or just maintained status quo over the last 10 years?
It depends.

Most games in the west seems to have improved. It is night and day from 2010 with all the obvious sexualization. It is still not perfect but it has been better.

Japan though... It is still the same as it was or maybe worse. Though in some rare cases things got better. Resident Evil is a good example of them improving.

Still, there is a lot of room for improvement.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT4| anime fans

(Works on it's own, also in reference to the prozd video we get a lot of use out of, and the actual anime discussions :D)

'armor pasties' was good though...
 
OP
OP
Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,505
"some of my favourite characters are females" was a particularly choice quote (i believe from earlier in the thread)
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
It depends.

Most games in the west seems to have improved. It is night and day from 2010 with all the obvious sexualization. It is still not perfect but it has been better.

Japan though... It is still the same as it was or maybe worse. Though in some rare cases things got better. Resident Evil is a good example of them improving.

Still, there is a lot of room for improvement.
Pretty much. Western games and Japanese games with realistic styles like RE or Death Stranding have been very good.
Anime styled games....not so good. Anime and echi stuff getting so much more popular has inflated the amount of that stuff that gets made because of the market for it there.

edit-Overwatch sort of being an exception to the western games.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,736
I thought mercy's under-boob boob-armor last year was a lot but widow's nipple-plates are really something special
the geniuses at blizzard have done it again! what new innovations in boob armor will they come up with for next blizzcon?

EMt9SRbUUAAc6lq.jpg
EuoLBXpWYAU8kvT

Is that a hinge on her armor pasties? (I do like 'pastie plates' though)

Like do they open and she starts firing from her nipples ala Austin Powers?
 

El Toporo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,124
You're all complaining, but what if they're introducing a new hero that clamps nipples? Justify the art design in the lore.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
Not gonna link it, but someone posted a video of a chud channel in the smash thread and this thread made it in, including posts from me and Richter1887. I guess they really do care about us. How sweet.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,532
Not gonna link it, but someone posted a video of a chud channel in the smash thread and this thread made it in, including posts from me and Richter1887. I guess they really do care about us. How sweet.
Era is the biggest gaming centric forum for English speakers and we have a heavy progressive slant. Of course right wing chuds gonna take pot shots at us.

Btw that chuds channel is basically like the Quartering. Alt right trash who cries about women ruining his star wars and such.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,205
Not gonna link it, but someone posted a video of a chud channel in the smash thread and this thread made it in, including posts from me and Richter1887. I guess they really do care about us. How sweet.
Back in the day, there were several websites and off-site threads dedicated to shitting on me everytime I posted against fanboyism and objectification. I eventually accepted they were (horrifying) evidence I was saying the right things as apathy is the true enemy of progress.

All those posters are probably now married with kids, which is weird to think about.
 
With Splatoon 3 coming (2022, but who counting), let check out the female cast of the series.

Squid sisters
SquidSisters.png


Actually cousins, they formed a idol group and crack jokes as they relay info to you (the player) on events.

Alt outfits have Callie in the cliché sexy evil outfit when she was brainwashed
Evil_callie.PNG


But she does have her nice casual wear after you and Marie save her
Post-Brainwashed_Callie.jpeg


Looking at her concept art her evil outfit could had been a lot better or a lot worst


Marie gets a nice Kimono
S2_Kimono_Marie.jpeg


Got a nice casual outfit in the concept art
Agent_2_Concept.png


Stay turn for more Splatoon series female cast

Staaaay fresh!
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
Back in the day, there were several websites and off-site threads dedicated to shitting on me everytime I posted against fanboyism and objectification. I eventually accepted they were (horrifying) evidence I was saying the right things as apathy is the true enemy of progress.

All those posters are probably now married with kids, which is weird to think about.
No I'm honestly glad to see my posts show up there for that same reason.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
With Splatoon 3 coming (2022, but who counting), let check out the female cast of the series.

Squid sisters
SquidSisters.png


Actually cousins, they formed a idol group and crack jokes as they relay info to you (the player) on events.

Alt outfits have Callie in the cliché sexy evil outfit when she was brainwashed
Evil_callie.PNG


But she does have her nice casual wear after you and Marie save her
Post-Brainwashed_Callie.jpeg


Looking at her concept art her evil outfit could had been a lot better or a lot worst



Marie gets a nice Kimono
S2_Kimono_Marie.jpeg


Got a nice casual outfit in the concept art
Agent_2_Concept.png


Stay turn for more Splatoon series female cast

Staaaay fresh!
Their normal designs are fine and the secondary ones are better. The evil Callie one is just weird, the maybe thong or whatever that is supposed to be is just unnecessary. The shades are cool though. At least them and Pearl and Marina are two sets of women main characters in newer Nintendo games and aren't really objectified.
 

Lost Lemurian

Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,304
Is that a hinge on her armor pasties? (I do like 'pastie plates' though)

Like do they open and she starts firing from her nipples ala Austin Powers?
They look more like the connector thingies on seat belts, so the armor "pasties" can be quickly removed/reattached.

As to why she would ever need to do that...your guess is as good as mine.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,205
It depends.

Most games in the west seems to have improved. It is night and day from 2010 with all the obvious sexualization. It is still not perfect but it has been better.

Japan though... It is still the same as it was or maybe worse. Though in some rare cases things got better. Resident Evil is a good example of them improving.

Still, there is a lot of room for improvement.
Japanese developers have definitely improved; the problem is that they are very jaded about it. Look at how wildly different women are portrayed in games meant for a global audiences vs domestic. Japanese developers clearly know what they should and can do, but avoid it on domestic focused titles that can squeeze the local male dominated market for more money. And I'm not sure how one would fix that as it won't stop until Japan completes it's own progressive movement (which clearly won't happen until the old guard dies out)
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
Japanese developers have definitely improved; the problem is that they are very jaded about it. Look at how wildly different women are portrayed in games meant for a global audiences vs domestic. Japanese developers clearly know what they should and can do, but avoid it on domestic focused titles that can squeeze the local male dominated market for more money. And I'm not sure how one would fix that as it won't stop until Japan completes it's own progressive movement (which clearly won't happen until the old guard dies out)
I guess the good thing is that were are starting to see it slowly. Capcom had that thing leaked that said they were taking TLOU2...and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, as good examples of going forward for handling women in games and progressive issues. TLOU2 selling so much and raking in awards seems like it could be an overall big influence that games infact can star women and even lgbt characters, and be a big success.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
It depends.

Most games in the west seems to have improved. It is night and day from 2010 with all the obvious sexualization. It is still not perfect but it has been better.

Japan though... It is still the same as it was or maybe worse. Though in some rare cases things got better. Resident Evil is a good example of them improving.

Still, there is a lot of room for improvement.

Pretty much this. The west is visibly improving, while Japan is seeing a split between more international-minded devs that either genuinely understand the issues or simply want to avoid western criticism, and those doubling down on the recursive otaku culture.

I'm interested to see what Street Fighter VI does because it could go either way (SFV went all in with sexualization but more recently Capcom seems to be getting its shit together), and I have a feeling that it will set the trend for a lot of other Japanese devs.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Its been touched on a bit in this thread before, but a little bit of the degradation of depictions of women in some genres (such as jrpgs) has a lot to do with improved graphics too. Like a 16bit jrpg character sprite could only be but so sexualized.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Japanese developers have definitely improved; the problem is that they are very jaded about it. Look at how wildly different women are portrayed in games meant for a global audiences vs domestic. Japanese developers clearly know what they should and can do, but avoid it on domestic focused titles that can squeeze the local male dominated market for more money. And I'm not sure how one would fix that as it won't stop until Japan completes it's own progressive movement (which clearly won't happen until the old guard dies out)
That's true when you put it this way.

I guess I was overlooking some games because the first thought I had was how many "anime" games we have that refuse to improve for some reason. Resident Evil is a big one that actually improved starting with RE7. FF7R went half way (and I say half way because some characters got improvements like Tifa. Her having a sports bra is a good change but they still didn't change her skirt into something more practical. but not all the way. You also got the waifu baiting). It is definitely true that they have improved when it comes to the biggest titles out there. The AA games though are a mixed bag. You got Trails for example which downgraded a ton.

Pretty much this. The west is visibly improving, while Japan is seeing a split between more international-minded devs that either genuinely understand the issues or simply want to avoid western criticism, and those doubling down on the recursive otaku culture.

I'm interested to see what Street Fighter VI does because it could go either way (SFV went all in with sexualization but more recently Capcom seems to be getting its shit together), and I have a feeling that it will set the trend for a lot of other Japanese devs.
I really hope they improve with SF6. The one thing I like about the designs in 5 is that the female characters actually have muscles. Every single one which is great in a fighting game. Though muscles arn't everything. SF6 should tone down the sexualized outfits way down and have more diverse body types for the female characters. I want to see big ladies as huge as Abigail or Zangief. Not just the same body type for every woman in the game.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
Its been touched on a bit in this thread before, but a little bit of the degradation of depictions of women in some genres (such as jrpgs) has a lot to do with improved graphics too. Like a 16bit jrpg character sprite could only be but so sexualized.
That's kind of true, but even with something like Fire Emblem, I've seen artwork and designs from older games and then compared to the new ones, and it's just a stark difference. It seems like they started doubling down there right when the series got more popular.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,205
No I'm honestly glad to see my posts show up there for that same reason.
Just make sure you rely upon the community when it becomes overbearing. That kind of shit can become dark fast

Their normal designs are fine and the secondary ones are better. The evil Callie one is just weird, the maybe thong or whatever that is supposed to be is just unnecessary. The shades are cool though. At least them and Pearl and Marina are two sets of women main characters in newer Nintendo games and aren't really objectified.
I guess the gold thing is that were are starting to see it slowly. Capcom had that thing leaked that said they were taking TLOU2...and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, as good examples of going forward for handling women in games and progressive issues. TLOU2 selling so much and raking in awards seems like it could be an overall big influence that games infact can star women and even lgbt characters, and be a big success.
These posts both kinda connect to my idea that Japanese developers know better but choose not to be more progressive. Obviously both the games from the Animal Crossing/Splatoon team have been great with diversity & representation. They've also had a female director (Animal Crossing) and a large number of women developers in Nintendo EAD/EPD overall. And you can see this diversity even leak into other Nintendo games such as Zelda, Mario & Pokemon.

So it's no surprise that the two major exceptions are the two developers located away from Nintendo's HQ: 3/4ths of Monolith (makers of Xenoblade) and Sora/Namco (makers of Smash). You can definitely foresee scenarios where a boys club forms separate from the rest of Nintendo or that they are allowed to make titles produced solely for the domestic market.

Which also ties into the other "waifu" Nintendo series: Fire Emblem. Intelligent Systems has expressed repeated confusion over the last decade on the series' popularity in the west as it was developed as a domestic title. Hence why they are split between making great women characters and also pandering to the otaku. The current compromise had been to make progress with the main titles while the mobile is the bait. But that's not a sustainable reaction.
 
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ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
Just make sure you rely upon the community when it becomes overbearing. That kind of shit can become dark fast



These posts both kinda connect to my idea that Japanese developers know better but choose not too be more progressive. Obviously both the games from the Animal Crossing/Splatoon team have been great with diversity & representation. They've also had a female director (Animal Crossing) and a large number of women developers in Nintendo EAD/EPD overall. And you can see this diversity even leak into other Nintendo games such as Zelda, Mario & Pokemon.

So it's no surprise that the two major exceptions are the two developers located away from Nintendo's HQ: 3/4ths of Monolith (makers of Xenoblade) and Sora/Namco (makers of Smash). You can definitely foresee scenarios where a boys club forms separate from the rest of Nintendo or that they are allowed to make titles produced solely for the domestic market.

Which also ties into the other "waifu" Nintendo series: Fire Emblem. Intelligent Systems has expressed repeated confusion over the last decade on the series' popularity in the west as it was developed as a domestic title. Hence why they are split between making great women characters and also pandering to the otaku. The current compromise had been to make progress with the main titles while the mobile is the bait. But that's not a sustainable reaction.
Yea that seems like it honestly makes sense. Nintendo and it's different teams are so varied that they can't put a stronghold over all the ones that aren't as close in. It makes things super awkward that they have gone back and forth between some really good representation, and then bad, both within games and series, and then just separate.
Like just with smash alone, MinMin has a really good and nonpandering design and represents a strong woman character. Then just a few later, maybe the worst designed Nintendo character ever is revealed with Pyra. I know it's literally the whole thing of Smash to crossover every series possible, but it's so jarring.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,280
With Splatoon 3 coming (2022, but who counting), let check out the female cast of the series.

Squid sisters
SquidSisters.png


Actually cousins, they formed a idol group and crack jokes as they relay info to you (the player) on events.

Alt outfits have Callie in the cliché sexy evil outfit when she was brainwashed
Evil_callie.PNG


But she does have her nice casual wear after you and Marie save her
Post-Brainwashed_Callie.jpeg


Looking at her concept art her evil outfit could had been a lot better or a lot worst



Marie gets a nice Kimono
S2_Kimono_Marie.jpeg


Got a nice casual outfit in the concept art
Agent_2_Concept.png


Stay turn for more Splatoon series female cast

Staaaay fresh!

I've always assumed Splatoon characters were in some nebulous late-teenage range, so sexualized designs (like those "evil" designs) squick me out even more than usual.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,205
Yea that seems like it honestly makes sense. Nintendo and it's different teams are so varied that they can't put a stronghold over all the ones that aren't as close in. It makes things super awkward that they have gone back and forth between some really good representation, and then bad, both within games and series, and then just separate.
Like just with smash alone, MinMin has a really good and nonpandering design and represents a strong woman character. Then just a few later, maybe the worst designed Nintendo character ever is revealed with Pyra. I know it's literally the whole thing of Smash to crossover every series possible, but it's so jarring.
And of course, Arms is by the Mario Kart team, another staple of Nintendo EAD/EPD.

I think it says a lot that Game Freak got absorbed into Nintendo HQ all while the majority of Monolith remains separate. It's either intentional or based on office politics, but I don't expect Monolith's future games to be any better.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
And of course, Arms is by the Mario Kart team, another staple of Nintendo EAD/EPD.

I think it says a lot that Game Freak got absorbed into Nintendo HQ all while the majority of Monolith remains separate. It's either intentional or based on office politics, but I don't expect Monolith's future games to be any better.
Yea, I would never expect anything good from the xeno games. Especially since XB2 is the best selling one ever I think. Fire Emblem will probably also have a lot of bad ones. I guess at the very at least if it's all just contained to those two series and it means everything else Nintendo is mostly good, then it could be worse. At least with Fire Emblem, none of the bad designs are in Smash though.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,406
the smash thread for pyra is a dumpster fire. nothing like a dude with a pyra pfp calling people who dunk on the obvious fanservice design the true sexists for reducing a character to fanservice
 

Roliq

â–² Legend â–²
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,236
I've always assumed Splatoon characters were in some nebulous late-teenage range, so sexualized designs (like those "evil" designs) squick me out even more than usual.
Well officially they are 17 (Splatoon) and later 19 (Splatoon 2) so i can see why, especially since they don't look that different from the Inklings who are 14 and later 16
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,205
I've always assumed Splatoon characters were in some nebulous late-teenage range, so sexualized designs (like those "evil" designs) squick me out even more than usual.
They're all designed by women and the duo of both games are aged between 17-21 (the evil version you posted is supposed to be 19). The issue with Splatoon is that all the playable characters are supposed to be 17-19 but because of issues with designing a non-masculine "boy character", they de-aged the player characters to 14 while keeping the story as the youthful rebellion of the 17-18 year olds. Hence the obvious issues.

Yea, I would never expect anything good from the xeno games. Especially since XB2 is the best selling one ever I think. Fire Emblem will probably also have a lot of bad ones. I guess at the very at least if it's all just contained to those two series and it means everything else Nintendo is mostly good, then it could be worse. At least with Fire Emblem, none of the bad designs are in Smash though.
What saves Fire Emblem is A) it's vast western popularity dragging the series to more progressive designs and B) the fact that Intelligent Systems, while not a part of Nintendo HQ, is LITERALLY next door, which has to have some kind of positive impact.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,323
Its been touched on a bit in this thread before, but a little bit of the degradation of depictions of women in some genres (such as jrpgs) has a lot to do with improved graphics too. Like a 16bit jrpg character sprite could only be but so sexualized.
This is true to a certain degree, but even the designs of SNES-era video games were far better designed compared to most shit you see from Japanese game devs today, particularly the bigger publishers. The 90s in video games did see stuff like Policenauts but it also had stuff like Tactics Ogre. I haven't played a Japanese RPG with a political story as well told as the one in Tactics Ogre. It was a game that had a lot to say about the nature and politics of war and it pulled it off exceptionally well. That has not happened in a single jRPG since, I would argue, the PS1 era.

For as much as I love games like Demon's Souls, the storytelling is basically non-existent and the writing in video games in general (whether you're talking Western or Eastern) has largely fallen off a cliff (exceptions in stuff like Disco Elysium and Fallout New Vegas - but these are very much the exception now, especially from Eastern game devs).

The 90s was a very wild west time for video games and it was clear that people were willing to experiment with the medium. As corporate culture moved in around the PS2 / Wii era, much of that has largely been lost.

I think that the motive to sell products has largely overtaken the desire to make something interesting in video games. Video games remind me now much more of toys than mediums like film or literature. And I do think this is why video games in Japan are where they are now. They are labeled by Japanese (and Eastern) society as toys for boys, and as such ascribe to the backwards thinking and values of horny teenage males.
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,894
yup, it's one of the threads that makes me go, god damn do I wish this site was more progressive.

Progressivism on this site ends as soon as a video game people like is affected.

I mean, I put like 200 hours into Xenoblade 2 and you won't really see me defending it besides like...the combat and exploration and music which is why I stuck with it. Everything else about it is mediocre to just bad.