Fair enough, but that doesn't relate to it being the "tlj" of games. Most people love it and the story.
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Which of these is the Last Jedi of gaming?
- Thread starter 品川駅
- Start date
There it is, the idea that The Last Jedi is a good movie because it's bold, it's risky, it's S U B V E R S I V E
A guy could stand up and start randomly flailing his arms around in the middle of an important meeting at his place of employment, and that would subvert expectations, indeed, but nobody would praise him for it, because it would ultimately be seen as a foolish act.
I'm aware that that's an extreme way of illustrating my point, perhaps unreasonably so, but you get the idea: subversion is only worthy of praise when it can also be counted as an example of good storytelling. Switching things up for the sake of it (what TLJ did, in my view) doesn't usually turn out well. It must be done with purpose.
It's Chrono Cross. It's always been Chrono Cross. It took a beloved property that was a simple throwback and tried to do something different with it by deconstructing a lot of elements of the property, the genre, and the concepts behind them both. Regardless of what you think about either CC or TLJ, it's impossible to ignore how similar they are in that regard because it goes a lot deeper than "people like or dislike this thing"
I hate this so much that I erase it from memories lol. I loved it until that ending.
Probably Battlefield V actually.
The Last Jedi at the highest level was a naturally polarizing film that was highly accomplished at a technical level whose negative reactions were amplified by the surge of political success the right wing received around that time. Battlefield V was also critically polarizing and technically immaculate but reached new levels of contention thanks to the conservative gamer backlash against the female combatants that was amplified by the panicked media during the time. It also came out during the same timeframe as TLJ.
The Last Jedi at the highest level was a naturally polarizing film that was highly accomplished at a technical level whose negative reactions were amplified by the surge of political success the right wing received around that time. Battlefield V was also critically polarizing and technically immaculate but reached new levels of contention thanks to the conservative gamer backlash against the female combatants that was amplified by the panicked media during the time. It also came out during the same timeframe as TLJ.
If any of SWERY's games got the AAA marketing budgets they deserved I'd say any of them fit here, but alas.
Does this mean people think Lucas planned the incest angle from the beginning
also why is padme dying? Oh she just doesn't give a fuck anymore lol
Does this mean people think Lucas planned the incest angle from the beginning
also why is padme dying? Oh she just doesn't give a fuck anymore lol
It's also good because it's fucking gorgeously made too and is easily the most visually beautiful Star Wars movie, has incredible set pieces and a deeply moving arc for Luke.
There are tons of films that are iconic and don't really care about continuity at all. The problem is popular American film's focus on plot has become the only metric for a lot of internet commenters to judge if a film is good or not.
Sorry, didn't know the LA times was alt right
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/la-times-you-cant-read-our-thor-review-because-disney-is-mad/
Another article documenting Disney strong arming:
Article describing the great need to be first to post a review(which makes invitations to early screenings financially critical to reviewers, and whats the best way to ensure you get invited to the next press screening???):
Star Wars specifically gives Disney this power, and the episodic movies are by far the most popular as they continue a story that so many have decades of investment in. They don't care about a 1-off movie bombing critically like Lion King. Kids won't care and its just 1 movie. SW is a massive franchise, orders of magnitude greater in importance than any one off film, and they have a proven track record of bullying to keep their properties strong. It will be interesting to see what Ep9 reviews look like. I don't think reviewers will feel as much pressure to ensure an invite to the next press screening, since ep10 could be a long ways off.
I don't think Nintendo is nearly as nefarious as Disney, but the media tends to sugar bomb old Nintendo franchises because it tends to get clicks. Pokemon easily came to mind as it is controversial, will have big sales, good critic reviews, and bad user reviews.
You do realize not one of your examples mentions, hints at, or has *ANYTHING* to do with strong-arming film critics for good reviews...right?
None of these have anything to do with pushing for better reviews. None of that is mentioned or hinted at in any of these articles.
That has never once been documented or hinted at happening ever.
Mass Effect 3 is a fantastic game far from bad, It's more a loud minority hates it and wants to pretend that it's an issue. Just like last jedi.
If I had to judge by haters it's probably Pokemon, because while there's valid critiques of the games, the overblown griping is ridiculous. There's a lot of issues I have with the game but the well is poisoned by people talking about aliasing when I want to talk about features.
If I go by "franchise that was known for doing something well that it then completely botched and screwed up and people will defend blindly" it's FFXV. A series known for great casts, stories and characters shoehorned into a game trying to be three games and all of the interesting plot happens off screen. Sounds about right.
If I go by "franchise that was known for doing something well that it then completely botched and screwed up and people will defend blindly" it's FFXV. A series known for great casts, stories and characters shoehorned into a game trying to be three games and all of the interesting plot happens off screen. Sounds about right.
Pokemon is a game the majority of people love that a very vocal minority just can't stand no matter what to the point of conspiracy mongering and parroting talking points from Youtubers clearly operating in bad faith.
Just like the Last Jedi.
Just like the Last Jedi.
Then I'll hop in, as someone who majored in film and media lol.
This one definitely isn't quite clear, but two things: Lucas's intention was to have Luke exile himself. Also, TFA definitely uses "map to Skywalker" a lot, but Han also explicitly states that they think Luke went to the first Jedi temple. It's poor wording for sure, but Luke didn't leave the map behind himself.
It's explicitly stated that there was no thinking involved there. It was a momentary "holy shit that's a lot of darkness, panic now," immediately followed by "uh no this is Ben." Kylo Ren woke up at exactly the wrong time. This is basic comprehension. Luke's quote:
Bolding mine.
Yep. I don't personally have a problem with that, though; even the original trilogy is full of inconsistencies. After all, Han's outfit changes from shot to shot just before he's frozen in carbonite, and Leia's outfits swap around when it's revealed that Lando betrayed them, as a few examples.
The one he drops? That's the saber that Rey uses throughout TFA and TLJ, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.
The movie explicitly shows Finn being treated with a strange liquid, which I've always assumed was bacta, just like what healed Luke from frostbite pretty quickly.
We don't get any sense of distance (for better or worse) for the other planets, but what do you mean when you say distance was relevant before? Luke manages to go between Dagobah and Cloud City very shortly after he realizes Han and Leia are in danger, and we explicitly see the passing of time as Finn and Rose have their excursion on the casino planet. The timeline of TLJ is a bit funky, to be fair!
I'm glad you can talk about some positives with it; I appreciate that. However, it's not objectively bad. We demonstrably see character growth for Finn, Rey, Poe, Rose, and Kylo; the plot is moved forward by Kylo taking over the First Order and Rey taking the Jedi texts; the themes of the Force being in everything are furthered through the sequences on Canto Bight. There are flaws in it (Canto Bight could have been tightened up; the reason Finn and Rose were arrested was flimsy AF; etc.), but that doesn't mean that the story is objectively poor. The movie has a demonstrable beginning, middle, and end; you can literally map it out on a basic plot structure outline. What plot threads from TFA were dropped?
On-topic, probably Sword and Shield. A long-running franchise beloved by many whose newest iteration has people on both sides refusing to listen to any criticism, but also has one side blatantly ignoring things that were said.
Lol Hardly. Most people love the game. A very vocal minority constantly making it known how much they don't like it that much doesn't change that
I think Skyward Sword exemplifies "love it or hate it" more than any other game this decade. There are people who sincerely believe that Skyward Sword is an afront to all that is holy and it personally killed their parents. Others place it near the tippy top of best Zelda games of all time. I can't think of a single other game that has that big of a divide in popular opinion.
literally exactly what the last jedi fans tell me about that movie
It's also what Uncharted 4 fans and MGS 4 fans say about their game as well but I somehow don't think you'd call those games The Last Jedi of their series
The fact of the matter is that BotW continues to sell well, is absurdly critically acclaimed, won GotY, and is nearly always a part of the best games ever made lists that come up. You won't see that for The Last Jedi
Imagine the timeline where Lynch directed RotJ...
I'd throw in FFTactics Advance as the next best example, especially since, much like TLJ, there's a layer of subtext aimed squarely at the more obsessive fans.
It's Chrono Cross. It's always been Chrono Cross. It took a beloved property that was a simple throwback and tried to do something different with it by deconstructing a lot of elements of the property, the genre, and the concepts behind them both. Regardless of what you think about either CC or TLJ, it's impossible to ignore how similar they are in that regard because it goes a lot deeper than "people like or dislike this thing"
You know, I was going to say "Sonic 06" or ET&T if we're talking about The Last Jedi, but the user above makes too good of a point even if he's half wrong. The ONLY acceptable answer is Mass Effect 3.
Both entries bombed their entries' narrative. With Mass Effect, gameplay was there, but EA's whole "Act 3 of this trilogy is the PERFECT time to jump in! Tacked on multiplayer!" act sort of went from "20 planned endings" to "Choose a color". The extended edition of what we got was as turd polishing as turd polishing can get. A series with a heavy focus on story had a Dexter-tier ending with a few missteps along the way. I'd judge that as an issue for act 3 of a trilogy.
The Last Jedi was just as Subversive as Game of Thrones season 8, only far worse. Gwendolyn Christie really deserved better, but she really gets the short end of the stick in TLJ. See, ME3 had the decency to end the trilogy on a shitty note. TLJ wraps up the trilogy in Act 2, and some fans consider "taking every narrative possible and just shitting on them" as glorious. There's "subversion", but no payoff. It's like me ordering something off Amazon and getting an empty box, and this empty box is the finest work of art known to man. I haven't seen a Part 2 of 3 since Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, and even then it had the dignity to let Megatron live and let an obvious Transformers 3 be your typical story as opposed to blowing everything up and leaving the only plotline to cover as Rey vs Kylo. Whoop-dee-doo.
It was subversive in that Rian Johnson is the first director to make a Star Wars movie worse than the Holiday Special. Part of that movie was a wookie grandpa pleasuring himself, and that did more for the plot AND characters than Canto Blight.
It has to be pokemon sword and shield...
Because the people who defend it are in denial ... just like those who defend the last jedi
not saying you can't have fun with it (or have fun watching the movie)
but
RDR2 you ca take it or leave it... but it's at least competently made and was trying to push the series forward
FFXV there was still something deep down that was a game... and like i said... tried new things
MGSV is probably the best gameplay of any of the metal gears
Because the people who defend it are in denial ... just like those who defend the last jedi
not saying you can't have fun with it (or have fun watching the movie)
but
RDR2 you ca take it or leave it... but it's at least competently made and was trying to push the series forward
FFXV there was still something deep down that was a game... and like i said... tried new things
MGSV is probably the best gameplay of any of the metal gears
For me MGSV.
As an incredibly huge fan of the series, and I consider it the most important and best series ever created. V killed and gutted me.
As an incredibly huge fan of the series, and I consider it the most important and best series ever created. V killed and gutted me.
The Last Jedi is one of the most beloved movies out there, won the most awards the year it came out, and is regularly put in lists of the best movies ever?
As much as some of you guys wish for BotW to be seen like that, it's not even close
Let's be realistic here, though. CinemaScore showed overall positive ratings for TLJ, and PostTrak, who does more in-depth reporting than CinemaScore, also reported overall positive reception. The official Star Wars site did a poll showing it in the top 3 favorite movies, as did r/movies. It made multiple times its budget ($225 million budget; $1.333 billion box office, with day-of making it the 5th-highest box office of all time at that time; it was surpassed by some of the Marvel movies the next year, leaving it at 8th-highest), and home video sales show that it was the top-selling Blu-Ray (higher than Solo as well as Avengers: Infinity War), and combined #2 top selling home video of that year (passed only by Black Panther). Similarly, Empire Strikes Back was hated at the time of its release, but consistently ranks in top franchise movies nowadays.
Like, the movie certainly has flaws, so using this thread to be like "oh so OBVIOUSLY the BEST in the series" is a little ridiculous, but on the flip side, insisting TLJ was an objective mess and ignoring cinematography, visual effects, sound, choreography, and the use of theme and such is equally ridiculous imo. There's something about TLJ that makes so many people completely unable to discuss the movie realistically.
I agree that Christie deserved better. It's not uncommon at all for the series to underuse characters (look at Boba Fett), but if we take her characterization and usage solely within the sequels, it's not done very well, haha. That being said, though, I don't see how TLJ wraps up the trilogy; the lack of an obvious sequel hook doesn't mean the trilogy is "wrapped up", after all. In fact, there's not a lot that was actually resolved. We finally met Luke, yes... but the Resistance suffered a huge blow, the First Order is still out there, Kylo has taken over, and the galaxy is still facing huge problems. If TLJ had resolved the storylines (a la A New Hope), the First Order would have been defeated, Kylo would have finished his character arc (whether through redemption, death, or imprisonment), and Rey would have mastered the Force. The only obviously dangling plot thread is Snoke, and though we should have gotten at least a hint at his origins, the focus has been on Kylo Ren much more than him.
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Well I don't really have any strong feelings either way towards the movie. I thought it was fine, with some stuff that I felt were a bit odd or dragged on too long and other stuff I enjoyed. I certainly didn't consider its visual effects or cinematography weak, albeit the one scene with Princess Leia using the force to save herself in space did look a bit off. I know its overall well received, my point was that comparing BotW to it doesn't make sense because BotW is overwhelmingly positively received and is already on Best of All Time lists, something I don't think we are likely to see for TLJ. Albeit, fair point about The Empire Strikes Back, we might see something similar for TLJ
We might! My point was just that it's been pretty well received already, so it strikes me as a bit odd to say it won't happen. We'll have to see :)
Well not everything goes from being the black sheep to being relatively beloved. There are exceptions but it's not necessarily common. Like Back to the Future Part 3 isn't exactly seen as all that great, even now
None of these even compare.
The Last Jedi was disliked largely characterizations that didn't seem consistent compared to past movies. It also completely butchered any interesting questions asked by the first film. Essentially it just took a giant dump on past Star Wars.
None of the games you list are like that. I could go through them all, but I'll just say none fit the bill.
Mass Effect 3 is the one. Just one giant dump on what made past games in the series great.
The Last Jedi was disliked largely characterizations that didn't seem consistent compared to past movies. It also completely butchered any interesting questions asked by the first film. Essentially it just took a giant dump on past Star Wars.
None of the games you list are like that. I could go through them all, but I'll just say none fit the bill.
Mass Effect 3 is the one. Just one giant dump on what made past games in the series great.
OP
OP
Didnt added ME3 because there is a consensus that the normal ending was bad.
While the games listed still have plenty of defenders and people who dislike those products.
While the games listed still have plenty of defenders and people who dislike those products.
MGSV. Critics loved it (I think the nazi review camps had something to do with it), but public response is incredibly mixed. FFXV and DS weren't exactly a critical darlings. XV scored worse than XIII. So yeah, MGSV for sure. It abandoned most of what made the series great, much like the turd known as The Last Jedi.
