Still a better showing than KH3D's pitiful selection of Disney bosses.
Birth by Sleep probably has my favorite selection of Disney bosses, to be honest.
Birth by Sleep probably has my favorite selection of Disney bosses, to be honest.
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[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III & ReMind DLC- Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Speaking of Disney stuff, I just now realized that they cut Mysterious Tower as a playable world. They definitely showed Sora fighting there in early trailers.
That's true. They've shown gameplay there multiple times including in the spaceship attraction so I guess it was cut.
Finished the game in about 27 hours rushing through story. Man it sure does prepare for the next arc.
The climax is kinda bittersweet for me. Yes it's hype and fanficy like kh likes to do, but it lack some build up.
Like when Aqua just ragequiting on the shadow tornado, or lingering will just showing up for the sake of it.
The fights just pills up and you don't have character growths to build those up.
But I love the fights in itself. Fantastic idea to regroup the bosses and reusing their movesets from previous games. I hope the dlc can add data versions.
So I guess the next game will link the MoM/Fortellers/Luxu/Ava/Naminé/Ventus/Lea/Isa plotlines with Sora caught up in all of this.
Too bad the credits spoil the epilogue with the fortellers' voice actors.
Wondering who the nameless star is. Probably Ava and I'm pretty sure Naminé is based on Strelitzia.
The climax is kinda bittersweet for me. Yes it's hype and fanficy like kh likes to do, but it lack some build up.
Like when Aqua just ragequiting on the shadow tornado, or lingering will just showing up for the sake of it.
The fights just pills up and you don't have character growths to build those up.
But I love the fights in itself. Fantastic idea to regroup the bosses and reusing their movesets from previous games. I hope the dlc can add data versions.
So I guess the next game will link the MoM/Fortellers/Luxu/Ava/Naminé/Ventus/Lea/Isa plotlines with Sora caught up in all of this.
Too bad the credits spoil the epilogue with the fortellers' voice actors.
Wondering who the nameless star is. Probably Ava and I'm pretty sure Naminé is based on Strelitzia.
Phew, just beat the game. Also rushed through for the main story ~30 hours. I think the side/post game stuff seems decent - haven't done any battle portals yet, basically 0 gummi ship stuff, 0 of the arcade games, lots of lucky emblems and treasure left to find, and grind out my keyblade levels. Going for the plat so I got a lot left to go. (only level 37, haha - played it on Standard).
I personally loved the ending, for what it's worth. Sure the disappearing Sora thing is kinda meh and too much of a cliffhanger right now, but I'll wait for the secret movie to kinda settle on that. Everything else was really nice, though. A much happier ending than I thought. I guess it was way more Disney than Final Fantasy when it came to character resolutions.
I'm in the "Sora is MoM" camp. I also think Sora is in the box. Seems like time travel is based on separating your heart and body. I'm guessing whatever caused Sora to disappear in the first place (like going to the past - maybe Ava called him, whatever). After helping out whatever that arc is going to be, I can imagine he wants to get back to Destiny Islands with his friends, so he places his body in the box (I guess bodies don't age when that happens? Ventus, amirite?) and his heart remains and fills the MoM black coat like how Xehanort was able to talk to his young self on Destiny Islands.
The main reason I think this is due to how Maleficent says she can't find the box because it doesn't exist "yet". Assuming the Epilogue already released takes place after the events of this game when Sora goes to search for Kairi, that means the black box was created then. So that's where Sora kept his body and they're waiting for his heart to come back.
But hey, even as I write this I'm thinking of a million ways I'm dumb! I'm hype, had a blast, and can't wait for the next one.
Also shameless plug: I've been putting all the Disney world cutscenes here if anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4cO3k3hswfCGHdlMzHjAA/videos
Working on adding the other scenes now. Something I noticed was the nameless star / namine cutscenes from the Final World are not included in the Theater mode - I wonder why they made that decision. Makes it more special I guess.
I personally loved the ending, for what it's worth. Sure the disappearing Sora thing is kinda meh and too much of a cliffhanger right now, but I'll wait for the secret movie to kinda settle on that. Everything else was really nice, though. A much happier ending than I thought. I guess it was way more Disney than Final Fantasy when it came to character resolutions.
I'm in the "Sora is MoM" camp. I also think Sora is in the box. Seems like time travel is based on separating your heart and body. I'm guessing whatever caused Sora to disappear in the first place (like going to the past - maybe Ava called him, whatever). After helping out whatever that arc is going to be, I can imagine he wants to get back to Destiny Islands with his friends, so he places his body in the box (I guess bodies don't age when that happens? Ventus, amirite?) and his heart remains and fills the MoM black coat like how Xehanort was able to talk to his young self on Destiny Islands.
The main reason I think this is due to how Maleficent says she can't find the box because it doesn't exist "yet". Assuming the Epilogue already released takes place after the events of this game when Sora goes to search for Kairi, that means the black box was created then. So that's where Sora kept his body and they're waiting for his heart to come back.
But hey, even as I write this I'm thinking of a million ways I'm dumb! I'm hype, had a blast, and can't wait for the next one.
Also shameless plug: I've been putting all the Disney world cutscenes here if anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4cO3k3hswfCGHdlMzHjAA/videos
Working on adding the other scenes now. Something I noticed was the nameless star / namine cutscenes from the Final World are not included in the Theater mode - I wonder why they made that decision. Makes it more special I guess.
It's a complete game, but just like the originals a few more things can be added to make it even better.
Yes. It does everything it set out to do and will receive updates on the future with extra content most likely
Where abouts Seven? Normally I wouldn't resort to a guide but I kinda have to when I don't have the English version yet :P
Yeah Toy Story was shit. Going back and forth in that shitty mall and the mech combat was trash though I liked the TPS part because they died quickly and you could strafe around. The block puzzle was shit, the Boss was sort of shit. Yeah shitty world but Rapunzel is awesome and so was Olympus.
Naminè is the reason Lingering Will is there. When Sora goes to the Final World, you get to talk to rotating, glittery stars. Naminè is one of them. The other star that has a voiced cutscene is a star, who is nameless. But it's implied to be Strelitzia.
Yeah, I'm in Team "Sora is the Master of Masters" too. There's so much of Sora's behavior and body language in that guy in the Back Covers movie. Maybe it's a corrupted version of Sora or something, but it's Sora himself in some form or another. Of that, I feel pretty sure.
I noticed something in watching the final battle for KH3 that potentially clears up one of the 'personality' hangups that previously gave me slight pause in MoM's scene with Ira in the movie and how nonchalant he is about the apocalyptic contents of the last page in the Book of Prophecies.
And after the final battle, Sora tells Master Xehanort: "A real leader knows that destiny is beyond his control and accepts that."
so if Sora really is MoM... does that mean HJO is out? like will he be replaced by the guy who voiced him in Back Cover or does he just stop putting on the little boy voice?
i agree. it's really concerning to see how many people who play the game come out agreeing with the theory. i generally try not to kow-tow to public opinion without firsthand experience but... it's freaking me out a little ngl lol
It was good to know all this stuff and made me feel even more hyped to play this game, I thank you all.
And with this I bid you adios.
Even though I mostly agree, disconsidering because its way too crazy or because it didn't float people boat would be very odd considereing that KH plot itself its a kinda of mess. Every theory is possible at this point.
And with this I bid you adios.
Even though I mostly agree, disconsidering because its way too crazy or because it didn't float people boat would be very odd considereing that KH plot itself its a kinda of mess. Every theory is possible at this point.
If I had to wager a guess, MoM is a Sora. Maybe not the one we'll play as in KHIV, but an iteration of Sora that's part of whatever insane plot hook Nomura's concocted for KHIV and the rest of the next story arc.
Granted, as much as I love HJO and his dedication to the series, it does sound like changes need to be made for the voices moving forward. He can't do Teenage Sora at all anymore, much less KH1 Sora. Either keep HJO onboard, but let him voice an older Sora or let nature take its course and pass the baton over to a new VA.
It's a nutty theory, definitely. I'm not even going to try to defend it being a "good" storytelling beat. It's just my takeaway from watching the Master of Master in Back Cover and looking at what clues seem to be present in KH3. We know something's happened to Sora and that the Foretellers are all back. MoM acts, talks and even moves just like Sora- and he knew literally ages ago what was going to happen in the Seeker of Darkness Arc.
ahhh i hadn't even considered another sora! there are like fifty of those now, aren't there lmao. between data versions and replicas and all those other things there's like a billion different explanations beyond just "OG sora is MoM bc nomura's a bad writer and ruined his character"
(at least i hope there is. i hope that if the theory proves true nomura *will* make it an alternate sora... im so close to ragequitting this story as it is. i don't need any more headaches..)
I mean, it's kinda hard to tell if the Master of Masters being the OG Sora himself would ruin his character yet or not. It'd definitely be convoluted as hell and another wonky plot development for the series.
However, reviewing the scenes of MoM in Back Cover, the man doesn't come across to me as a proper villain or antagonist. Shady and mysterious, yes. Even more than a little manipulative. But MoM seems to be more like a Chaotic Neutral or even a Chaotic Good than anything else- it's just that this guy seems to feel/know that the Keyblade War is inevitable and is playing along- which eerily rings true to Sora's line to MX in KH3 that I quoted earlier. If the Master of Masters is Sora proper, my guess is he's pulling some elaborate convoluted plan here for an ultimately good goal.
Again, not defending the twist if that ends up being the case. But it's my theory on where that's heading.
Phew, there's a lot I'd love to discuss regarding this game's story, but I'm arriving 196 pages late to the party, haha.
In short, having all the original story shoved to the ending and for it to just be very centered around Sora and Kairi's relationship.. disappointed me tremendously. I can see why some people don't mind it, but I think a lot of people who are more sensitive to the writing behind women and general romance tropes will be disappointed. Kairi has an entire scene dedicated to her writing a letter to Sora about how she's had the chance to train for an infinite amount of time, but only ends up being kidnapped and used while she stands completely still. The story quite literally calls her motivation! The ball was dropped really hard here.
You can really tell that Nomura handled this story alone.. KH is full of twists and nonsense, but it's not so complicated you can't sit down with the other 3-4 writers on your team to get some ideas for dialogue and scenario writing, especially when they've been with you on all the other entries in the series.
I do think the secret reports are the highlight of writing. When you have a disney crossover game, reading about "human wails behind the walls" is deliciously interesting BECAUSE of how dark it is. The twist about the foretellers being antagonists and the traitor being good is pretty interesting, too. I just hope Nomura actually develops them. It's even worse that the international KHUX can't seem to keep up with updates, so fans are forced to look up japanese cutscenes just to keep up.
The bit about how a heart can return is nice too, but.. only Namine seems to even fit that. A heart needs a vessel and a spark, and it will return. We see Namine at the end because of this (though.. not sure what her spark is), but Roxas just sort of appears without any vessel in sight, and Xion.. how is she there? Wouldn't Sora know if her heart was extracted? She doesn't even seem to be "norted" so much as just playing along for some reason. Maybe I'm missing a lot of context?
I wonder what the response will be as the game begins to officially arrive in the U.S. A lot of people are already giving it high praise, but most everybody I know who has dug into spoilers and was expecting more from the story.. they're all outraged, or just downright sad.
In short, having all the original story shoved to the ending and for it to just be very centered around Sora and Kairi's relationship.. disappointed me tremendously. I can see why some people don't mind it, but I think a lot of people who are more sensitive to the writing behind women and general romance tropes will be disappointed. Kairi has an entire scene dedicated to her writing a letter to Sora about how she's had the chance to train for an infinite amount of time, but only ends up being kidnapped and used while she stands completely still. The story quite literally calls her motivation! The ball was dropped really hard here.
You can really tell that Nomura handled this story alone.. KH is full of twists and nonsense, but it's not so complicated you can't sit down with the other 3-4 writers on your team to get some ideas for dialogue and scenario writing, especially when they've been with you on all the other entries in the series.
I do think the secret reports are the highlight of writing. When you have a disney crossover game, reading about "human wails behind the walls" is deliciously interesting BECAUSE of how dark it is. The twist about the foretellers being antagonists and the traitor being good is pretty interesting, too. I just hope Nomura actually develops them. It's even worse that the international KHUX can't seem to keep up with updates, so fans are forced to look up japanese cutscenes just to keep up.
The bit about how a heart can return is nice too, but.. only Namine seems to even fit that. A heart needs a vessel and a spark, and it will return. We see Namine at the end because of this (though.. not sure what her spark is), but Roxas just sort of appears without any vessel in sight, and Xion.. how is she there? Wouldn't Sora know if her heart was extracted? She doesn't even seem to be "norted" so much as just playing along for some reason. Maybe I'm missing a lot of context?
I wonder what the response will be as the game begins to officially arrive in the U.S. A lot of people are already giving it high praise, but most everybody I know who has dug into spoilers and was expecting more from the story.. they're all outraged, or just downright sad.
Yeah, especially after how the past several games were indicating that Kairi would finally be a big player in KH3... and she gets shafted. Brutally so. That's easily my biggest frustration with KH3's story right now.
Part of me wants to hope that Nomura would be smart with this and have Kairi be the lead hero in KH4, searching for Sora, but we've got over eighteen years' worth of her being sidelined repeatedly to point to for why that's an unrealistic hope to have moving forward.
Again, the MoM knowingly orchestrated the murder of thousands of children and didn't even try to stop it. The Keyblade War is completely, 100% his fault and he knows it. It was only inevitable because he caused it in the first place.
That's definitely a valid point and normally I would completely agree with you! But this is Nomura. If MoM is actually Sora proper, I don't doubt he'll somehow retroactively put some weird cushion behind those actions that (try) to make him more sympathetic.
Basically, as Vinea put it above, Nomura really needs to enlist new writers to handle the series from here on out. He needs people to tell him "no" and interact with while making the game, as much as he potentially hates that.
Also people keep bringing up the Sora line but... The MoM does the opposite. He is trying to control destiny with the Gazing Eye. He wants to know everything that happens so he can twist the world to how he sees fit.
Watched a bunch of gameplay videos, including the final boss. The game looks EXCELLENT, waaaaaay better than I expected, but I'm inclined to wait for the DLC before playing, just because of no Critical at launch. I think it's for the best that they want to take the time to get Critical right, but Proud looks too easy, and level 1 Proud too boring. I can't go back to the standard difficulties after playing II Final Mix on Critical, the game is just so much more interesting.
I agree, I don't think sora is MoM. That's pretty evil shit for Sora to do that. It's not his character for him to do that. If anything he would try to prevent it. This is also a Disney game and the main character can't be evil anyway possible. I fully expected kairi to have a bigger role for the next game and especially that the other trios have their happy ending. It be like the first game and focus will be the destiny trio. Namine is probably Ava from the past so she will also have a bigger role.
I mean, I could be very well be wrong! It's just my immediate impressions based on what I've seen of KH3 and of MoM.
But I will say this- even if it's not Sora himself, I think it's at least safe to say MoM is a character that's designed to evoke Sora on some level, even if it's to be as a foil/new main antagonist. There's a reason so many people keep comparing the two- they have similarities in a lot of ways. The language, the way they both move- it's very eerie to watch.
If it has good critical mode like KH2 FM, KH3 will become 10/10 game for me, but now it good with 88MC, i'm OK with this. Waiting for FM version
i got a theroy on the master of masters that makes sense yeah sora is the master of master but not our sora is different master of masters while the backcover is different sora from another timeline so the final battle is light sora vs dark sora this caused te world to reborn and reset in the end
MoM being Sora's Darkness aka Vanitas would make some sense. Like when Xehanort split Ventus' heart he inadvertently created a false copy of the MoM, which is why he has that unique keyblade. Which is why he chose to be Darkness as he said in KH3, because he has become aware of his status as MoM. That or Xehanort fucked up big time and brought back the actual MoM, and he went a long for the ride. When they defeated him, Vanitas didn't go back to before BBS, he went back to the Age of Fairytales. Xehanort unwillingly and unknowingly ressurected the MoM.
Absolutely, at least judging from videos it already seems to be one of the best in the series, even if it looks way too easy.
Finally beat the game and I can finally enter this thread. I waited patiently to have all the trios have their happy ending and close this saga but the destiny trio gets shafted and they do Sora like that? I really don't know how to feel about that. I really wanted them to all be together...
Based on cutscenes so far, Demyx brings back a vessel and Ansem the Wise to Ienzo. Ienzo basically has all the work done reconstructing Roxas' heart but needed a vessel, which he just got, and a spark. I guess he sensed his friends and Sora in danger and that was enough and insta-ported to the battlefield. The last bit is flimsy but it works.
I guess Namine's spark is from well practically anyone. Also, Sora would have had to get Kairi back for Namine to go into her new vessel so I'm guessing some time has passed between him going on his search for Kairi and the ending.
As for Xion, it seems messy. It makes sense for the Org to have handled everything offscreen but her spark ? I don't believe anyone really gives a shit about her there.
From what I understand you don't need an actual extraction if you manage to get a spark.
this is the biggest problem i have with the theory. it doesn't matter what happened to him or which one of his friends died, sora would never transform into that kind of monster. there would need to be some seriously major outside influence (possession/brainwashing) making him behave like that. sora is literally goodness and light personified. its the point of his character and has been since the first game.
such a good point about the need for new writers. what we're seeing with nomura is exactly what we saw with lucas when it came to the star wars prequels. he surrounded himself with yes-men and next thing boom, we got attack of the clones. you know what's good about attack of the clones?
nothing. there's nothing good about attack of the clones.
sora didn't caused that another timeline of sora that lost the battle to xehanort that master of master we see in ux that caused everthing while our sora we know and love becomes a different master of masters in the good timeline
what ux master of master goal he want want a clash against good sora that will caused the reborn and reset so everone can start there new lives think it like how at the end of first season of sailor moon when princess serenity and queen beryl clash the world was reborn and evertihng bagan as new
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The AI seems a bit too useful in this game, I hope there's an option to turn them off, I want to fight those triple bosses by myself.
Maybe if they add Data Fights later on as DLC.
Maybe if they add Data Fights later on as DLC.
Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to play the game myself yet until release tomorrow.
However from the spoilers I have read and seen I have a theory in regards to Sora = MoM.
I believe that with the last entries of the Kh series Nomura has made it clear that Time Travel underpins the entire kh story as we know it so far.
I believe the next category of time travel Nomura will explore and write into the series will be Time Parralels.
This would allow Nomura to explore alternate versions of the same characters with slightly altered personalities. This provides him with the chance to have a fresh take on existing characters.
I believe that MoM is potentially an arc in Sora's timeline that was created at the point in time where Sora and Co lose the battle against the 13 Darknesses at the Keyblade graveyard. only in this time line there was no retry.
In this timeline Sora's body and heart are displaced in time for abusing the power of waking and sent back to the ancient era.
Sora is transfixed with getting back to his friends and fixing this one point in time as it is the critical cross road in time where the lights either turn the tide or lose to Xehanort.
Sora's personality is slightly altered due to the greif of being alone and losing all his friends and Kairi.
He places his heart into a box whilst his body writes the events through the book of prophecies that will lead him back to this point in time with Luxu performing majority of the legwork to ensure what is written is fulfilled.
Luxu places the No Name Keyblade in the Keyblade Graveyard so that MoM can analyse how the Lights failed at this point in time and derives the plan that will provide a retry arc/alternative timeline.
He arranges the assasination of Strelitzia so that both her and Namine would be there to meet with Sora in the final world and prevent him from giving up as MoM once did.
The Box with Sora's heart is hidden until after the battle reference (kh3 epilogue) this is because the box can only be opened when the Sora from the present timeline disappears. (when he goes to save Kairi). MoM swaps his place in time with present day Sora with both parralel timelines/universes continuing to have a Sora in existence.
However from the spoilers I have read and seen I have a theory in regards to Sora = MoM.
I believe that with the last entries of the Kh series Nomura has made it clear that Time Travel underpins the entire kh story as we know it so far.
I believe the next category of time travel Nomura will explore and write into the series will be Time Parralels.
This would allow Nomura to explore alternate versions of the same characters with slightly altered personalities. This provides him with the chance to have a fresh take on existing characters.
I believe that MoM is potentially an arc in Sora's timeline that was created at the point in time where Sora and Co lose the battle against the 13 Darknesses at the Keyblade graveyard. only in this time line there was no retry.
In this timeline Sora's body and heart are displaced in time for abusing the power of waking and sent back to the ancient era.
Sora is transfixed with getting back to his friends and fixing this one point in time as it is the critical cross road in time where the lights either turn the tide or lose to Xehanort.
Sora's personality is slightly altered due to the greif of being alone and losing all his friends and Kairi.
He places his heart into a box whilst his body writes the events through the book of prophecies that will lead him back to this point in time with Luxu performing majority of the legwork to ensure what is written is fulfilled.
Luxu places the No Name Keyblade in the Keyblade Graveyard so that MoM can analyse how the Lights failed at this point in time and derives the plan that will provide a retry arc/alternative timeline.
He arranges the assasination of Strelitzia so that both her and Namine would be there to meet with Sora in the final world and prevent him from giving up as MoM once did.
The Box with Sora's heart is hidden until after the battle reference (kh3 epilogue) this is because the box can only be opened when the Sora from the present timeline disappears. (when he goes to save Kairi). MoM swaps his place in time with present day Sora with both parralel timelines/universes continuing to have a Sora in existence.
the true final clash is good timeline v bad timeline sora this will caused the world to reborn and evertihng will start a new
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Fair enough! I guess it's one of those things that may not be fully explained. I like the idea enough, but the way the lost hearts (Roxas, Xion) just sort of poofed into existence seemed to counter the lore Nomura was trying to go for. Their memories are said to come from data too, but only that would have gone up to a certain point.. I don't know, very weird stuff.
I did some brief googling of past KH writers as well, and there's really only 3 other people, although I imagine there must be more that pitch in with ideas, like Tomoco Kanemaki. Writers like Daisuke Watanabe are listed as having worked on scenario writing for KH, KH2, CoM, supervised some stuff in coded and Days.. It seems very, very weird to suddenly approach KH3 and say "the story is just now too complicated, I'll only have one other guy work with me while I write all the final drafts." There's no way these writers aren't familiar with the story, and sitting at a table to discuss ideas may have helped a lot. Nomura, for all the respect I have for him, is just one middle aged Japanese man. It's no wonder he sees no issue with scenarios like Kairi training for an infinite amount of time, only to be kidnapped and used for Sora's motivation.
https://www.kh13.com/forums/topic/1...-the-games-own-instagram-like-social-network/
Here's a link to that interview's translation. It seems like he's been doing this since after KH2 actually, but I don't think "my story is too complicated" is a good reason to stop working with other people on the story. If anything, that just means you'll make it more complicated (and here we are, relying on constant time travel for the next plot..)
Not just the girls, but other characters feel oddly written, as well. Riku dies to protect Sora, but then lets him freely go disappear to find Kairi.. who Riku didn't interact with once, much less cared about when she was in trouble. Weren't they supposed to be a trio of best friends?
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i belive the other failed timeline sora didnt learn any of his leasons becuase that sora was selfish and only care about himself and never understand some things are not in our controled we have to accept that what makes a good leader putting other people needs before your own
Question unrelated to what is being discussed right now:
Does Sora have any power that only he possesses? It seems like he never becomes a keyblade master, even during KH3. So, is he like, super powerful when compared to other keyblade users? When Is ee the ultima weapon video, well, lol.
Does Sora have any power that only he possesses? It seems like he never becomes a keyblade master, even during KH3. So, is he like, super powerful when compared to other keyblade users? When Is ee the ultima weapon video, well, lol.
Chirithy tells sora he's been at the final world multiple times but has overlooked it until now. What other times was he talking about?