He's one of the options and he's the objectively correct one. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.
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The Queer Men of Gaming
- Thread starter Weiss
- Start date
Emil from Nier is gay.
(its only stated in the japanese ps3 version of the first game though because in the US version you play as dad nier while in japan on the ps3 you play as teenager nier)
For what it is worth, one could go so far as to say that Nier himself is bisexual, or at the very least, gay for pay.
Nier allegedly sold his body to pay for Yona's medicine for a period of time.
There's a coded letter in RE2 that reveals that Chris is hunting umbrella in Europe. He mentions bringing a hot girlfriend with him on a "Vacation". Some people read this as being a hint towards him being gay because Claire comments "how unlike him", but she's actually just commenting on the ridiculous letter itself, and the fact that he's taking off time to go vacation with a supposed girlfriend no one knew about.
I wish people would post actual gay characters.
I bought DA:I just because of him, he seems such a cool character from what I've seen in videos. Such I shame that I dropped the game very quickly after realizing there was way too much useless crap to do in the game.
Dorian from DA:I has a great arc. Always have him in my party.
A lot of really great picks in this thread already, though I have to say it's a bit disheartening (in an industry-wide sense) that a good number of the more notable character shoutouts I see (not just in this thread, but even generally) for queer male representation are examples highlighted mostly or entirely through subtext or implication, or just a particular read of a character with a vaguely defined sexuality. I really hope we can get to a point soon where we see greater representation in leading male characters or protagonists where the definitions can be less vague and there's less of a need for someone to take a particular read on a vaguely-defined character to find such examples of queer men.
Dorian's great, and I also really enjoyed Iron Bull's characterization and comfortable pan-sexuality.
Dorian from DA:I has a great arc. Always have him in my party.
Dorian's great, and I also really enjoyed Iron Bull's characterization and comfortable pan-sexuality.
GREGG
Greg from Night in the Woods is legitimately one of the best gay characters ever because he's allowed to actively be gay on screen multiple times. I'm so tired of "well this kinda seems like a metaphor so" reps because thats both a copout for cowardly writers and gives plausible deniability to straight people.
Greg meanwhile is a dude whose very much gay for his boyfriend Angus and it's brought up enough that it feels realistic and super relateable.
Greg from Night in the Woods is legitimately one of the best gay characters ever because he's allowed to actively be gay on screen multiple times. I'm so tired of "well this kinda seems like a metaphor so" reps because thats both a copout for cowardly writers and gives plausible deniability to straight people.
Greg meanwhile is a dude whose very much gay for his boyfriend Angus and it's brought up enough that it feels realistic and super relateable.
Can't really use my avatar as one because he and every character in the game are already default gay basically anyway as its a LGBT gacha lol
Still incredibly disappointed hes not in 11 but Sonya is.
This is a goddamn amazing explanation and post
Gregg and Angus put to shame most examples. Their characters are seemingly unrelated archetypes (the cool, scrappy, up-and-down best friend and the shy, nice, emotionally-scarred nerd), but their queerness is perfectly mixed in and their being in a relationship complements one another. Not only do they make up half of the main characters (with Gregg generally being painted as deuteragonist), but their relationship, queerness, and importance to each other are also focused upon. In a game where its absence wouldn't otherwise be noticed by most, the queer themes present enrich the game and bring the characters of Gregg and Angus to life. They are shockingly good, and that there's so little to compare them to speaks both to their quality and to how much the rest of the gaming world comes up short. I could write dissertations on Gregg in particular, who's a fantastically amusing and interesting character that doesn't need to be queer in order to be those aforementioned things, but whose queerness is still vital to the character as he is.
im awful at wording lol
Gays won't be widely well represented until we get casual sexuality like this more oftenAngus and Gregg are some of my favorite gay characters in games. Gregg's dialogue is just pure mood.
even many canon gays aren't allowed to actually think, say, or act gay sexually/flirtatiously/whatever and are basically sexless.
This is what I hope for, too. In the games I've played, I really can't think of many notable characters. They all seem to be suggested to be queer and/or they're very far from being a main character. I looked into the Assassin's Creed Syndicate character mentioned in this thread, and I was sad to see that the first article that popped up had to walk the audience through the idea of queer subtext before making the case that he was bi.
Naughty Dog is doing something special with Ellie in TLOU2. I'm hoping I can see that with a male character soon. I worry a bit that we might just see a proliferation of choose-your-romance single-player games and that a canonical, queer male main character in a AAA game will just get kicked down the road.
Naveed from Dragalia lost?
Is this confirmed?
What game is your avatar from?
Linus or riotNaveed from Dragalia lost?
Linus is the only gay I desire from Dragalia and i'll take no substitutions
A currently japanese only gacha, Housamo/Tokyo Afterschool Summoners. It's basically just Fate/Go for gays as most characters are adaptations of mythological/fabled/religious heroes/monsters
My avatar being Azathoth of Lovecraft's works.
It's mostly baras/furries but theres actually a handful of girls, there's pronoun stuff, and even i think more than one trans/genderfluid character
Its getting translated by the devs themselves, but only the main story is translated mostly so far with a few rerun events getting it too.
There's too many queer men in video games whose queerness is regarded with malice, either by the creators or by the characters in the story (or even the queer character in question). Additionally, the fact that a lot of these characters are only regarded as being gay, bisexual, or queer in an offhand manner really bothers me. There's so few positive depictions of queer men in video games, and the fact that they're so fleeting really breaks my heart.
There's a lot of positive depictions of queer cis women in video games, but the number of cis and trans queer men in games is miniscule in comparison. The number who aren't treated like shit, have their partner die, or wind up dying themselves is harrowing.
Also, you're not being cute by saying a character who isn't explicitly queer is queer. A man being gay because he doesn't date women plays into a harmful trend in toxic masculinity, where men who don't date women are seen as queer, and thus regarded negatively. This, in turn, leads to heterosexual men directing their anger on queer men, who are wholly undeserving of this treatment.
There's a lot of positive depictions of queer cis women in video games, but the number of cis and trans queer men in games is miniscule in comparison. The number who aren't treated like shit, have their partner die, or wind up dying themselves is harrowing.
Also, you're not being cute by saying a character who isn't explicitly queer is queer. A man being gay because he doesn't date women plays into a harmful trend in toxic masculinity, where men who don't date women are seen as queer, and thus regarded negatively. This, in turn, leads to heterosexual men directing their anger on queer men, who are wholly undeserving of this treatment.
...is an extremely offensive stereotypical "depraved bisexual".
...doesn't get a happy ending. He isn't (explicitly) punished for his sexuality, but being on of the few queer men in the game, he is treated horribly. Frankly, there are very few queer people in New Vegas who even have "bittersweet" character arcs; there's a lesbian woman in one NCR camp who's suffering PTSD after being sexually assaulted by a Fiend, and Veronica and Christine's arc is tragic from beginning to end.
Kung Jin is an excellent example of how to depict a queer man without going totally overboard and laying on the stereotypes real thick.
The Last of Us treats the queerness of its characters as a vector for tragedy.
The thread is about queer men, but yes, Axton is bisexual. Not much attention is drawn to it, but that's mostly because he didn't have any dialogue relating to the story until Assault on Dragon Keep, wherein he has a couple lines relating to him being bi. Sir Hammerlock is also gay, but his relationships also end in tragedy, as is oh so very common of queer men in media (though he's nonplussed about it).
His motivations are entirely malicious and his "love" borders on being extremely creepy, to the point that he steals a kiss from Snake in the end of MGS4. Much like Volgin, Ocelot's queerness is regarded as creepy, and the fact that it's one of his major motivators in the series results in a lot of his actions across the series being re-contextualized as being extremely fucked up.
She's not a man. She's also the only party member in the game who you can choose to directly, permanently remove her from the Inquisition.
The only bad thing about Kung Jin is that it's a little too subtle. Feel it shoulda been brought up a few times and directly said rather than Raiden being a Straight Ally with vague sagely advice.
I agree, but it's a hell of a lot better than almost every other queer man in video gaming, and that's a damn good start.
Leon was an unexpected breath of fresh air coming from Nintendo, to be honest.
His sexuality and crush on Valbar are central parts of his character, but never the sole focus, and they're treated with surprising respect.
Yeah, as someone currently playing through DA:I for the first time as we speak, Dorian and Iron Bull have both been real standouts...
Dorian from DA:I has a great arc. Always have him in my party.
That said, and as stated previously in the thread already, Gregg and Angus are far and away some of the best examples of a gay couple being portrayed super well and realistically in a video game. The setting definitely helps with that too.
One of my more pleasant surprises in the 2016 was Jim Miller in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. His sexuality is not explicitly shown or stated until you have to go search his apartment where you find pictures of his husband and kids. It's not presented in a judgmental way or like a dirty secret. It has nothing to do with the main story, but adds some background character to him.
Adam goes there to find out if Miller is a mole or spy (I think?).
What? No, he isn't. Not to mention he has several happy endings too.
And it's post-apocalyptic, most characters will have tragic circumstances.
Though I wouldn't call it inherently positive:
Bartz must be at least Bi because before they played the reveal of Faris as a woman, Bartz was totally attracted to Faris.
also it just hit me that Faris is trans. Amano also didn't have any second thought in depicting Faris in poses that are more traditionally left for the male hero
Bartz must be at least Bi because before they played the reveal of Faris as a woman, Bartz was totally attracted to Faris.
also it just hit me that Faris is trans. Amano also didn't have any second thought in depicting Faris in poses that are more traditionally left for the male hero
D'OH I feel dumb. I read the thread way too fast.
Well, here's someone else then.
Joachim from Shadow Hearts Covenant.
I really can't agree on his motivations being malicious - his methods are extreme, yes, but everything in 1, 2 and 4 is just done in the service of rescuing Big Boss. His plans also count on Snake stopping him in the endgame, and are ultimately endorsed by most of MGS4's cast that were in the know. By the ending with Big Boss, it's all presented as quasi-heroic because it was the only way to flush the Patriots out.
I can't see why love is in quotation marks or why you'd regard it as creepy - I'd understand it if torture was a factor like Volgin's sadism, but nothing like that ever plays out between the two. The MGS4 kiss happens during a section where health bars, music and camera change to reflect MGS3, with Ocelot symbolizing his younger self and Snake symbolizing Big Boss. The kiss, in Kojima's symbolism, is Ocelot kissing Big Boss.
Nobody in the story ever regards Ocelot's attraction with Big Boss as creepy outside of maybe EVA, a 1960s femme fatale who only wonders why Ocelot isn't into her, and that's about it. Parallels to Volgin who is very much a case of bad representation where he's presented as perverted and a sadist who grabs men's crotches in public are way off the mark.
Lastly I wanna hone in on a specific point - Ocelot's queerness isn't his motivation, his love for a man is. Heterosexuality isn't considered a motivation if a straight character does something out of love, presenting it like that is just reducing a character to their queerness and eliminating their depth.
I'm a bit saddened that this thread has seemingly run out of examples to discuss. Perhaps it shows how few prominent, well-known examples there are.
I'm hoping this discussion that I'm about to raise is still within the scope of this thread, and based on the thread's opening statement, I think it is:
My question:
I'm curious what major games people expect in the upcoming year or two that might feature a prominent queer male character. In other realms of pop culture, we recently received the news that Marvel might be casting for a queer male character in an upcoming Marvel movie, which to me is a promising sign of overall change. My experience in games is pretty narrowly focused, so I'm sure others can speak better to what's on the horizon and which studios might include such characters, but I've written a couple ideas below (one for each major console brand!).
1. Fire Emblem: Three Houses: Given the school setting, it's unclear to me if romances will return at all in this game. However, if recent Fire Emblem games are anything to go by, I would think we'll see at least one queer male character. In fact, if romances DO exist between the students and the teacher character is not involved (I'm unsure how old the player's character is and if IS would have the player be able to romance students), we could actually get two queer male characters! Just a possibility.
2. The Last of Us, Part II: I didn't play the original, but I know Bill was a notable character. Given Ellie's role as the protagonist in the sequel, I'm hoping we might see some queer male representation as well. She could have a friend, right?
3. Gears of War 5: I don't now anything about these games beyond the brief amounts I played on Xbox 360, but perhaps we'll see a queer male character show up in this game's narrative. If the main cast consists of entirely established characters, it may be difficult, but we'll find out! (This is me stumbling for a guess; please feel free to tell me this guess is ridiculous.)
Anyone expecting prominent queer male characters in any particular games?
I'm hoping this discussion that I'm about to raise is still within the scope of this thread, and based on the thread's opening statement, I think it is:
My question:
I'm curious what major games people expect in the upcoming year or two that might feature a prominent queer male character. In other realms of pop culture, we recently received the news that Marvel might be casting for a queer male character in an upcoming Marvel movie, which to me is a promising sign of overall change. My experience in games is pretty narrowly focused, so I'm sure others can speak better to what's on the horizon and which studios might include such characters, but I've written a couple ideas below (one for each major console brand!).
1. Fire Emblem: Three Houses: Given the school setting, it's unclear to me if romances will return at all in this game. However, if recent Fire Emblem games are anything to go by, I would think we'll see at least one queer male character. In fact, if romances DO exist between the students and the teacher character is not involved (I'm unsure how old the player's character is and if IS would have the player be able to romance students), we could actually get two queer male characters! Just a possibility.
2. The Last of Us, Part II: I didn't play the original, but I know Bill was a notable character. Given Ellie's role as the protagonist in the sequel, I'm hoping we might see some queer male representation as well. She could have a friend, right?
3. Gears of War 5: I don't now anything about these games beyond the brief amounts I played on Xbox 360, but perhaps we'll see a queer male character show up in this game's narrative. If the main cast consists of entirely established characters, it may be difficult, but we'll find out! (This is me stumbling for a guess; please feel free to tell me this guess is ridiculous.)
Anyone expecting prominent queer male characters in any particular games?
Greedfall by Spiders (the folks who made Technomancer) is already confirmed to have same-sex romance options and the one gay LI they had in Technomancer was really well-written and had a great romance and character arc.
I'm also still holding out hope that we'll see a gay male character in Life is Strange 2 as the season progresses. I haven't started playing it yet but AFAIK, there hasn't been any LGBTQ representation in it yet and the devs know how important that is to their fanbase so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up introducing an LGBTQ character.
Cyberpunk 2077 is also confirmed to have same-sex romance options, though I'm not sure how much of that is going to be characters having proper sexual orientations and how much of that is going to be characters being playersexual. CDPR doesn't have much of a track record when it comes to LGBTQ representation, though, (IIRC, there was a single minor NPC in Wild Hunt who was gay and a slightly less minor NPC who could be a cross-dresser depending on how you interpret his character) so we'll have to wait and see if they do it well.
It's also not gonna come out for at least a couple more years but whenever Dragon Age 4 releases, I'm obviously expecting that to have some nice LGBTQ characters again.
OP
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Fire Emblem has recently gotten into having same sex romances (albeit in a highly limited form) so I'm hoping that Three Houses improves on that.
Niles from Fates was fucking great.
I took it that way as well, looked fairly OoC for someone as focused as Chris. Then again, Piers' loyalty to Chris and viceversa, is waaaay too big for "comrades". You know what up, and Capcom should say it out loud AND IN GAME. Twitter confirmations are sad.
To be fair, the subtext that's in the game is so subtle that it could've been read any number of ways. I did not come away from the game thinking that Edward was bisexual and the only reason I know that he is is because the game's writer confirmed it on Twitter after the fact. It may be better than nothing but still not a great example of representation, if you ask me. A better one from the same game would be Ned Wynert who's a trans guy (and it's actually quite clear in the game that he is trans from what I remember):
The first mainline AC protagonist to be confirmed bi. There's an entire sequence dedicated to the subject via subtext.
Vamp, MGS2/4
I remember initially thinking he was called Vamp because of his blood-drinking backstory, but turns out he's called that because he's bisexual. Hell I think a character in-game (Raiden maybe?) makes the same mistake, lol
I remember initially thinking he was called Vamp because of his blood-drinking backstory, but turns out he's called that because he's bisexual. Hell I think a character in-game (Raiden maybe?) makes the same mistake, lol
Came in for this. I loved Dorian he was always in my party too, he had such great personality and snark but some of the scenes with him were kind of emotional and surprisingly well handled.
Dorian from DA:I has a great arc. Always have him in my party.
It's not often that I get sold on a game by one image, but this is one of those times.i mean
Vamp, MGS2/4
I remember initially thinking he was called Vamp because of his blood-drinking backstory, but turns out he's called that because he's bisexual. Hell I think a character in-game (Raiden maybe?) makes the same mistake, lol
Yeah Snake corrects him
Worth noting that he was likely in a relationship with the Marine Commandant from the opening, thanks to the graphic novel adaptation apparently confirming as much...
who is Fortune's father.
It's certainly all very bizarre
This is a good call too, I romanced him on my second playthrough and thought it was pretty well done. I really liked the whole game actually even if it was super rough around the edges. I'm keeping an eye on Greedfall.
Those two are queer as hell, I found the Alisha/Sorey romance to be hella forced. Let those two be together Namco!
There is no Alisha/Sorry romance. Heck in the game she sorta ends up being paired with a side-character and her and Sorey never meet again.
lol i found my inability to date him so heartbreakingRyuji is a bisexual icon:
Hopefully in Persona 5 R
It's nice to see Persona 2 get some representation.
To be honest, I've noticed that a lot of the "groundbreaking" gay/queer/non-binary couples in media seem to be mostly women, which feels a bit weird and almost wrong, as if it's okay to have two girls kiss but not too males. It could be confirmation bias however.
I haven't played it but according to other posts in this thread, that line is not actually in the game. (Not saying that you shouldn't play it - I've heard good things about the game - you just probably shouldn't expect to read that line while playing it :p.)
The obvious reason is to say that Women Loving Women in media can be appealing to a cishet male audience, as it's two women, the same way that "lesbian" porn can be appealing to straight men. The issue is more nuanced and complicated than that of course. The comparatively higher number of WLW representation in media compared to MLM is not to say that content involving queer women is now completely just accepted and mainstream, because, fuck, it still ain't. When Soldier 76 was revealed to be gay, some cishet men playing Overwatch were upset about how the "alpha-male manliest character" on the roster was now gay. When Tracer was revealed to be a lesbian, the issue there was that this fictional character wouldn't be interested in having sex with me, a cishet man.
But hopefully it doesn't have to be this way. The small success and acceptance that queer women have gotten in media should not be seen as a loss for queer men, but two groups that need to work together. We can't do this alone.
And as for trans men, they get so little representation because most of the world is seemingly ignorant to them even existing. Y'all deserve better, trans men.
OP
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I feel the same way, though I preface everything by saying that just because queer women have some more representation on the table than queer men doesn't really mean they've, like, made this giant leap ahead of us or anything.
Nonetheless it's still hugely disappointing for me when I look for queer representation in stuff that actively tries to be inclusive with the best of intentions, and it's never queer men.
Say hi to Makoto from Enchanted Arms, an early 360 (later PS3) RPG done by From Software of all companies!
Sadly, this guy very much falls into that cliched Japanese joke gay character. He is madly in love to an obsessive degree with the best friend of the main protagonist, he speaks with a full on lisp and spouts out things like "Honey" often enough that Trixie Mattell herself would be proud. He spends pretty much most of the first part of the game he's in being a massive bitch. Honestly, he's deeply embarrassing and kind of gross with his stalkery tendencies but hey, i never said he was well a realised/written character cause god knows those are in short supply at the best of times. Still, back when the game came out it was a novelty to see someone that unabashedly queer although giving From Software any kind of actual credit for that is a nope from me.
Sadly, this guy very much falls into that cliched Japanese joke gay character. He is madly in love to an obsessive degree with the best friend of the main protagonist, he speaks with a full on lisp and spouts out things like "Honey" often enough that Trixie Mattell herself would be proud. He spends pretty much most of the first part of the game he's in being a massive bitch. Honestly, he's deeply embarrassing and kind of gross with his stalkery tendencies but hey, i never said he was well a realised/written character cause god knows those are in short supply at the best of times. Still, back when the game came out it was a novelty to see someone that unabashedly queer although giving From Software any kind of actual credit for that is a nope from me.
After the party gets their asses handed to them early on by the antagonist he goes "undercover" as this guy to help the party out from time to time.
I mean, i say undercover but even though he decides to give himself a gruff voice it's bloody obvious that its Makoto. He drops all the camp and it's almost like his new persona is like what a gay man perceives straight people to be but again that is giving From Software way too much credit. When he eventually reveals himself he goes straight back to gross sexpest bitchy camp queen. He literally sexually assaults the guy he's in love with at the end of the game, with the player character holding the other guy in place while he struggles saying things like "Yuck, no!" so yeah, that's a thing. Japan's attitude towards LGBTQ+ culture is often considered kind of problematic at the best of times and this kind of nonsense really doesn't help that perception.
I mean, i say undercover but even though he decides to give himself a gruff voice it's bloody obvious that its Makoto. He drops all the camp and it's almost like his new persona is like what a gay man perceives straight people to be but again that is giving From Software way too much credit. When he eventually reveals himself he goes straight back to gross sexpest bitchy camp queen. He literally sexually assaults the guy he's in love with at the end of the game, with the player character holding the other guy in place while he struggles saying things like "Yuck, no!" so yeah, that's a thing. Japan's attitude towards LGBTQ+ culture is often considered kind of problematic at the best of times and this kind of nonsense really doesn't help that perception.
In regards to gay stuff, Gregg and Angus is objectively the best answer, I'm glad the thread is in agreement.
As for gender stuff, from The House in Fata Morgana, Michel is best boy.
As for gender stuff, from The House in Fata Morgana, Michel is best boy.
He's just a really cool character really. I appreciate the fandisk Requiem for Innocence taking the time to go "btw, just in case you didn't pick up on this, yes he's intersex specifically" when perhaps it wouldn't have made sense to have such a modern word in the narrative, and I also like that he gets a happy ending because quite frankly given what he goes through this wasn't a guaranteed thing. Also shout out to his modern design at the end of the game? It's great.
This could quickly turn into a "why Fata Morgana is great and everyone should play it" post, so I'll leave it at that.
This could quickly turn into a "why Fata Morgana is great and everyone should play it" post, so I'll leave it at that.
Guess he could be Bi or Pan since at one point he mentioned having a Wife.
Not necesarily her, but log tapes reveal that she had lesbian moms, one of them was a scientist Jack had working under him under threats of hurting her Wife, she made experiments on Flesh Stick and he ended up killing both of Tina's Moms which is why she had a vendetta against him.
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Gunman Clive from Gunman Clive is gay.
Yeah, that's a great example, particularly if you go back to this exchange: