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Star Citizen fans call on CIG to post an update on Squadron 42 development progress [See Threadmarks for Updates]
- Thread starter Deleted member 44371
- Start date
I'm curious how much Duke Nukem Forever effect is in play here. Or will be when all is said and done.
Game has been in development for 8 years and I'm wondering how dev tools and rendering/physics/etc. has evolved since then. How much of that early development needs to be completely scrapped or heavily modified at the least to keep pace with modern standards?
Game has been in development for 8 years and I'm wondering how dev tools and rendering/physics/etc. has evolved since then. How much of that early development needs to be completely scrapped or heavily modified at the least to keep pace with modern standards?
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It's always nice when the Star Citizen subreddit shows some self-awareness. The thing I've been noticing from the faithful lately is a lot of conversations like this:
"The Star Citizen alpha is incredibly buggy and unpolished."
"Yeah, but it's a work-in-progress alpha."
"But it's been going on for years, and nothing ever gets any less buggy or janky. Sometimes it feels like it's just getting more buggy and janky."
"Well that's because half the systems in the alpha are just placeholders. They're going to be completely replaced by better versions. So they don't want to waste time fixing bugs on systems that are just going to be replaced anyway."
And that's when I say "wut." Is anything about this game actually done and ready to build/iterate upon? I just read this post by D&D guru Matt Colville shilling for Star Citizen. He says the purpose of an alpha is to just get all the features and systems in place, and then once they're all in place, we'll see a sudden explosion in content! Hundreds of quests and star systems! A veritable avalanche of progress! Sure buddy. But even if you believe Star Citizen's code and process are good enough that they'll eventually just be able to crank out content like a finely-tuned machine, exactly how close are we to that point? It looks like three quarters of the planned features are still missing, and half of what's there is just placeholder systems slated for the garbage bin! Is this a normal state for a game to be innine seven years into development? Is it, Matt?
So anyway, what are the chances that Squadron 42 is, like, lightyears ahead of the Star Citizen alpha in development? What are the chances that all its systems are beautifully polished and running great, while the alpha is an unholy mess? I mean, the MMO and Squadron 42 are supposed to use all the same basic code and systems, right?
So let's say the current internal build of Squadron 42 is six months ahead of the Star Citizen alpha in terms of the implementation and debugging of basic gameplay systems, etc. Exactly how much progress do the developers typically make in six months? If Squadron 42 right now is as polished and ready as you expect the Star Citizen alpha to be in six months, is it ready to show? Is it ready for prime time? I think we all know the answer to that question.
"The Star Citizen alpha is incredibly buggy and unpolished."
"Yeah, but it's a work-in-progress alpha."
"But it's been going on for years, and nothing ever gets any less buggy or janky. Sometimes it feels like it's just getting more buggy and janky."
"Well that's because half the systems in the alpha are just placeholders. They're going to be completely replaced by better versions. So they don't want to waste time fixing bugs on systems that are just going to be replaced anyway."
And that's when I say "wut." Is anything about this game actually done and ready to build/iterate upon? I just read this post by D&D guru Matt Colville shilling for Star Citizen. He says the purpose of an alpha is to just get all the features and systems in place, and then once they're all in place, we'll see a sudden explosion in content! Hundreds of quests and star systems! A veritable avalanche of progress! Sure buddy. But even if you believe Star Citizen's code and process are good enough that they'll eventually just be able to crank out content like a finely-tuned machine, exactly how close are we to that point? It looks like three quarters of the planned features are still missing, and half of what's there is just placeholder systems slated for the garbage bin! Is this a normal state for a game to be in
So anyway, what are the chances that Squadron 42 is, like, lightyears ahead of the Star Citizen alpha in development? What are the chances that all its systems are beautifully polished and running great, while the alpha is an unholy mess? I mean, the MMO and Squadron 42 are supposed to use all the same basic code and systems, right?
So let's say the current internal build of Squadron 42 is six months ahead of the Star Citizen alpha in terms of the implementation and debugging of basic gameplay systems, etc. Exactly how much progress do the developers typically make in six months? If Squadron 42 right now is as polished and ready as you expect the Star Citizen alpha to be in six months, is it ready to show? Is it ready for prime time? I think we all know the answer to that question.
I remember getting piled on because I couldn't understand how a game that has made this much money, isn't done yet? Apparently, its suppose to be the type of game that keeps going but like the OP says, for such a game with record breaking funding....how are things..not...done? I'm confused....Isn't this suppose to be one massively large game?
Well, you answered your own question right there. They have a ton of money, without the publishing oversight that is normally responsible for making sure a team sticks to deadlines and deliverables, and gets a game done. That was after all their pitch to fans- "give us money and we can bring Chris' vision to life without those pesky publishers meddling with it".
So that is what they are getting...
Context is key: the kickstarter and original funding campaign happened when PC gaming was, once again, being declared dead and a number of games were not at all coming to PC. It was definitely on the popular conscience of the time. Whether it is true or not is another matter (it was not, of course), but the PC was in a different position then than it is now, as a platform.
I was just reading the quotes u/QuaversAndWotsits has been posting on the Starcitizen_refunds subreddit over the past month, and God, they are just solid gold:
What a fucking mess. I remember commenting on it a year or two, maybe maybe even more, ago only to be piled on by people saying I was wrong, the SC alpha was looking good and S42 was just around the corner. I am glad I backed out of backing this mess.
I always bring this up in SC threads, but I think it's worth bringing up again:
Elite Dangerous is already about to have this in 2021. Yes, ED and SC are on different scopes, mainly SC has a few hundred hand-designed systems/planets, while ED has millions of procedurally-generated systems/planets, but it's also worth pointing out that Elite is a game that exists and is complete. I think SC should seriously consider limiting scope to be a complete game before going on with superfluous things. I don't "hate" SC or anything, but I look at it and can't help but see it's serious issues. There's obvious things such as selling multi-thousand dollar ships that don't even exist yet, but there's stuff like SQ42 not having an update in a very long time.
Elite Dangerous is already about to have this in 2021. Yes, ED and SC are on different scopes, mainly SC has a few hundred hand-designed systems/planets, while ED has millions of procedurally-generated systems/planets, but it's also worth pointing out that Elite is a game that exists and is complete. I think SC should seriously consider limiting scope to be a complete game before going on with superfluous things. I don't "hate" SC or anything, but I look at it and can't help but see it's serious issues. There's obvious things such as selling multi-thousand dollar ships that don't even exist yet, but there's stuff like SQ42 not having an update in a very long time.
This thread is a lot quieter because it's a S42 thread rather than a SC one. I think most people at this point are fully aware that S42 is a no-hoper project. There's almost no chance they are able to have the quality of staff they need to complete the project up in Wilmslow.
If they somehow managed to cut their losses and restarted with a sane engine, they'd be able to make a "S42" game to-spec with their staff on something like Unreal in about three years. But then it'd not be a "Star Citizen" game.
It's really hard to underline just how horribly crippled S42 is. It's stuck on an engine nobody knows, with a master project (SC) that it is required to keep in line with, but is being developed in a totally different country to SC. The studio director is Erin Roberts still IIRC, the brother of the company founder, meaning there's no way to seriously cull managment if that's the issue without a familial backstabbing.
You know. You can use logic and analysis all you want, and your erudition may convince some readers, but all I hear is a lack of faith. It is well understood, and has been for centuries, that the (near) existence of a playable video game cannot be disproved through science or reason. That is where faith comes in.
If you have faith, miracles are possible! SQ42 could release this christmas and Star Citizen by 2022. You just have to believe strongly enough. I don't want to say that your lack of faith is what keeps the games from coming out, but I kinda am. Sorry not sorry.
I will say this. Even with all of the money in the world, the only way you can finish a project like this on the scale that it is would be to hire more people than can reasonably be managed by one person. Think on a scale grander than anything ubisoft has managed with their 1000+ people teams.
They aren't limited by funding. They are limited by management and man power. I can see why some people are ok with how progress is going and I can see how some just can't accept it.
It's not a scam. They are making things, that's obvious
What it is, is a game ran by a guy who refuses to say no and just adds and adds and adds. It's feature creep the game featuring extremely expensive jpegs.
The issue is, a lot of SQ42 is still tied to the MMO side. And because things like AI are causing them nightmares so they make new ships or redesign ships, the single player is getting crazy held back.
I've said this before. Chris Roberts is an ambitious man but horrible at getting anything done. Imo he needs to step back or down and get someone real in charge who knows how to finish something.
What it is, is a game ran by a guy who refuses to say no and just adds and adds and adds. It's feature creep the game featuring extremely expensive jpegs.
The issue is, a lot of SQ42 is still tied to the MMO side. And because things like AI are causing them nightmares so they make new ships or redesign ships, the single player is getting crazy held back.
I've said this before. Chris Roberts is an ambitious man but horrible at getting anything done. Imo he needs to step back or down and get someone real in charge who knows how to finish something.
lol that is exactly what it sounds like.
I know a lot of devs who have taken trips with the excuse of it being part of research and while this was true, usually the "research" part of the trip only took 10% of the time, if that. They prob sent a few animators (and some tag alongs) to a pub with a camera and had the bartender serve them drinks while recoding.
Pretty much this. As a dev, I'll add: Having infinite time and money (or at least enough of the latter to last you a lifetime) to make your dream game is not conductive to ever finishing that game.
If you are getting constant funding from the public without really finishing anything, why finish?
Imagine the backlash if this was not a game, but other forms of media/entertainment. Like a movie. For eg, I will pay $30 to get to see a new Marvel movie in the future, then I can donate/pay even more to see my name of the credits, to see more superheroes added (you get the gist). But the production drags on and on, with the film maker trying to add in more content or trying new shooting technology. Then you donate more for new superheroes, new arcs and storylines.
Then they release snippets of the movie for you to show its progress
And you will still continue to wait and wait for the release.. just imagine how much hate it will get
Then they release snippets of the movie for you to show its progress
And you will still continue to wait and wait for the release.. just imagine how much hate it will get
I mean, at least you guys put out a game (and a decently-received one at that, to the point it's getting a current-gen remaster next month), while this has been in development hell for eight years.
I was just recently watching the GDC panel from the creators of FTL detailing how they build that (abolutely incredible) game, and they talked about being a challenge to handle the big amount of money they got from kickstarter. I believe thy wanted 20k and ended up with 200k or something.
They managed though. I think that is what allowed them to get such an awesome soundtrack and a writer to help them... writing the game.
I just don't understand how people familiar with the genre saw what happened with Freelancer and were like "Yea, Star Citizen seems like a sure bet."
I'm still embarrassed I put in $60 back in the original Kickstarter. It was so, so many years ago and it still burns.
But then I think about the people who are still spending money and have dumped thousands into it and I don't feel so bad.
But then I think about the people who are still spending money and have dumped thousands into it and I don't feel so bad.
After 8 years of development with over $200m spent and no finished product, it's unquestionable that development of Star Citizen has failed. This is normally the kind of development failure you'd see in public sector procurement, like defence spending. It's absolutely incredible this has gone on for so long. It was completely obvious it would continue like this even 5 years ago. There's probably a lot more that can be written and learnt from the failure of SC from a development lifecycle perspective so everyone can really understand what not to do.
I loved Wing Commander growing up and seeing this actually materialize would be great, but I'm glad I didn't back or prepay. I want to pay for a product, not a promise when it comes to games as I've seen way too many of these fail. If it's a niche product like a new Might and Magic or something that's done by an experienced and proven team then that's different, but for the most part I don't see the appeal of gambling on the work ethic/skill of others by backing a game and risking nothing more than a "whoops, we pissed the money away and couldn't make a game".
I'm still amazed there are people who are still invested in this game coming out and being good. No game is worth being strung along for this many years.
It's definitely not a scam but it is however a tremendously troubled and poorly led project, i am looking forward for the inevitable whistleblower giving insight into this botched mess.
inside the troubled development of star citizen - Kotaku
Gaming Reviews, News, Tips and More.www.kotaku.co.uk
Rather. I meant now. A lot has changed in 4 years. Also not the same person. Him working at Bloomberg, could open even more doors for him.
"Somebody said unspecified mean things about PC gaming, sending free money to Chris Roberts was humanity's only hope" -- actual Star Citizen defense
I dunno what the fuss is all about. I understand being upset about squadron 42. However I've been playing star citizen and its not that bad with ptu 3.10. If you guys consider eve online a game thats what starcitzen feels like right now but in fps viewpoint. Sure there are features still missing but chris robert even said star citizen well never have a definitive release cause they will alway update the game cause its a mmo. I say play the game before ppl speak. Also Im always looking to play with a group!