Oh for fuck's sake. Of course we just have to have the "but where's the proof??" people in here.
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Scott the Woz invites known abuser & rapist RelaxAlax to cameo in his "Borderlines Forever" video despite being warned about him prior
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
- Status
If only there was... oh I don't know, an original post, perhaps the first one in the very topic they're replying to, with various threads, with various threadmarks with various pieces of evidence.
On a more serious note, every apologist or incredulous person that reads this thread should check at least a couple of the links in first post of this thread before replying to this.
Wow, didnt knew about this, unsuscribed yesterday because I was starting to get weird undertones from his videos (overuse of I am a virgin jokes, internet personality saving the world kinda like the nostalgia critic movie, etc.).
Either way it's bad form from Scott since it proves the notion of the boys club mentioned in the OP: people with power will continue to have control over the perception of their victims. And no, "accused" doesn't cut it when multiple people backed up Raven's account including other YTers in the Smash scene, it's pretty cut and dry that Alax did bad things to her (including stealing a poster, which was brought up as early as 2019 yet ignored by the masses due to Alax's size, before the other, extremely serious stuff came out: there's a reason she was super nervous to even speak up to begin with, and it's because of that lack of the general populace not believing women, as evidenced by the amount of harassment she got last summer)
Don't even think about pulling this shit here, wtf. First off, cancel culture is blatantly not a thing, especially the fact that people such as Projared and Alax can come back unscathed from pretty credible accusations of being horrid people (Jared for cheating on his wife, Alax for assaulting Raven) by posting a lame apology after ghosting their social medias for a few months and continue like nothing happened, and second, there is mountains of proof not only in the OP but from people Raven knows IRL, people who knew Alax like Aurum, etc. Don't even think about acting like you made a good faith reply because it isn't
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OP
I wouldn't say Alex got out unscathed, as he lost quite a few working partners (as mentioned in the OP).
I think it might be important to keep in mind that Alax appears to be a personal friend of Scott; he's been featured in videos prior to the allegations coming out and Alax was the cause for the first real subscriber boost that Scott got.
What I'm saying is that there might be additional factors muddling up the judgement of what appears to be a bad choice, not that the accusations are true or false in any particular direction (I just don't know enough about the situation to say much, not having read and seen everything, and I prefer to be cautious after having misstepped on these kinds of things a few times).
People act differently when their friends are involved and most people don't hold an absolute moral framework, which might help explain any hypocrisy on Scotts part for this.
Outside of that, if we would be looking at how the rest of this appears to have been handled in both the leadup to this, I suspect that Scott simply accepted submissions from anyone who agreed to help out (he's done multiple open calls for creators on Twitter to send him footage in the leadup to this) and didn't want to bother with vetting or spitting through related drama of the people who submitted, given that the people featured appear to be all over the spectrum from actively videogame related to only tangentially related to video games.
Some people just are like that; they categorically put their head in the sand from any accusations of people related to them and mostly try to fly on the notion of "if I don't involve myself, I can claim innocence".
What I'm saying is that there might be additional factors muddling up the judgement of what appears to be a bad choice, not that the accusations are true or false in any particular direction (I just don't know enough about the situation to say much, not having read and seen everything, and I prefer to be cautious after having misstepped on these kinds of things a few times).
People act differently when their friends are involved and most people don't hold an absolute moral framework, which might help explain any hypocrisy on Scotts part for this.
Outside of that, if we would be looking at how the rest of this appears to have been handled in both the leadup to this, I suspect that Scott simply accepted submissions from anyone who agreed to help out (he's done multiple open calls for creators on Twitter to send him footage in the leadup to this) and didn't want to bother with vetting or spitting through related drama of the people who submitted, given that the people featured appear to be all over the spectrum from actively videogame related to only tangentially related to video games.
Some people just are like that; they categorically put their head in the sand from any accusations of people related to them and mostly try to fly on the notion of "if I don't involve myself, I can claim innocence".
Yeah that whole intro scene of YTers watching him taking notes on how to he a YT game person was cringe as fuck.
No, no, I don't want that circumstantial proof. Where is the hard proof?
/s
Also, one thing that doesn't appear to be entirely clear here is if Scott was made aware beforehand or afterwards of these accusations. Unfortunately there's no screenshot evidence of the DM exchange, but some people deliberately choose to leave up work they're not proud of anymore, seeing them as their individual artistic piece that they don't want to retouch. Given the way the rest of this appears to have come to all the other creators as a suprise, I suspect it might have been after but I can't say for sure.
(I've had this reasoning more or less explaind to me on the notion that if you have an artist revise small parts of their work, they will inevitably try reworking bigger things they take issue with, which will lead in a very negative downward spiral. This is why art museums don't ask artists to restore damaged paintings themselves; a museum tried it once and the entire painting was just flat out redone because the artist didn't like the old work. A lot of content creators as a result don't want to retouch their old videos because of this risk causing them to fall behind schedule as they basically do all the effort to create another video again.)
Some people are willing to upload revisions to their work, other people leave all their uploaded work as is.
EDIT: Actually I really would like to stress that first paragraph. People are assuming here that Scott was made aware beforehand, which would mean that bobdunga had special insight into the creation process, given that no other creator from what I can tell was aware of who was going to cameo alongside them. That means that your assumption that bobdunga was able to inform Scott beforehand is just that; an assumption.
The entire dynamic changes depending on if he was informed beforehand or afterwards.
(I've had this reasoning more or less explaind to me on the notion that if you have an artist revise small parts of their work, they will inevitably try reworking bigger things they take issue with, which will lead in a very negative downward spiral. This is why art museums don't ask artists to restore damaged paintings themselves; a museum tried it once and the entire painting was just flat out redone because the artist didn't like the old work. A lot of content creators as a result don't want to retouch their old videos because of this risk causing them to fall behind schedule as they basically do all the effort to create another video again.)
Some people are willing to upload revisions to their work, other people leave all their uploaded work as is.
EDIT: Actually I really would like to stress that first paragraph. People are assuming here that Scott was made aware beforehand, which would mean that bobdunga had special insight into the creation process, given that no other creator from what I can tell was aware of who was going to cameo alongside them. That means that your assumption that bobdunga was able to inform Scott beforehand is just that; an assumption.
The entire dynamic changes depending on if he was informed beforehand or afterwards.
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Sucks Scott did this but at this point I don't know how a statement would be able to address this especially after Bobdunga gave her anecdote about warning Scott about this. At best he's an overly loyal person who valued his shitty friend over the victims or someone who just didn't care about the victims in favor of his shitty friend. If nothing else his cameo was only one in literally hundreds so I'm not gonna scorn Scott too harshly over this but hopefully this is a learning experience to not have Alax be involved in his videos anymore.
If Bobdunga hadn't reached out to him personally, I would mostly agree with this stance. But damn, it takes something else to have someone reach out to you to tell you to not include their abuser in your vid, and for you to go through with it anyway
We don't actually know if that's what happened. It's an assumption OP made. The reaching out could have very well have happened afterwards which changes the entire dynamic and what Scott's being accused of.
Note; this statement could be wrong in the future, but at the time of writing we just don't have evidence on that element either way.
This fucking sucks. I really dug Scott, but there's no defense for this shit. Aligning yourself with a monster despite being warned by their victim takes deliberate ignorance, that's not something I'm comfortable excusing or overlooking just to enjoy some fucking YouTube videos.
I'm curious to see what he'll say about this, if anything, but this is almost assuredly the end of the road for me with him regardless.
I'm curious to see what he'll say about this, if anything, but this is almost assuredly the end of the road for me with him regardless.
I literally said in another YTber thread for someone to check in on Scott so that he doesn't fall from grace. Did not expect it to happen and so soon.
Anyone reading about this: Time to follow Bobdunga and her amazing coverage of lost (and later found by her :v ) media!
Anyone who actually feels that their artistic soul can't handle editing an abuser out of their freshly-released YouTube video is suffering from an extreme case of excess privilege and deserves whatever hate they get for it. People deserve to catch shit for being unwilling to be a righteous person.
And let's not act like this is the case of someone like George Lucas changing whether or not Han shot first repeatedly. If the creators of All the Money in the World were willing to move heaven and earth to remove Kevin Spacey from their 50 million dollar film, Scott the Woz can commit to removing this asshole from his YouTube video.
I am not passing judgement on this belief either way; I am not a creator, I'm a software developer, my work is very different (we throw out old code all the time when it's open source or release and never ever look back until someone reports a critical bug 2 years later and you have to hunt down the person who wrote the old code and tell them it sucks and that person is usually yourself.)
All I'm saying is that I've seen 7 years of creators who have at various points in their lives expressed regret of their past work because of it containing a social faux pas/featuring people you aren't particularly proud of featuring and how they handle those things. I've seen responses ranging from "eh, I'm not proud of it anymore"/"I wouldn't do it in the future" to "I'm never gonna talk about this again".
As a general rule, what I've basically seen happen on youtube can in broad strokes falll in the following two categories:
- "High fan engagement creators" (easy example I can think of being The Geek Critique; covers old video games with an unabashed love of the nostalgia lens, great if you want a positive look at "retro" games. He covered SMRPG recently and included that one song that everyone knows about that the creator was eventually revealed to be a sex pest of, before people informed him and he reuploaded the video within 24 hours), aka people who heavily interact with their fanbase shortly after they upload a video often end up re-encoding and reuploading their video if the accusation are really fresh.
- People who drop a video, don't engage with the audience they have and generally are treating the platform as a business will often end up either unlisting the video if it's not their proudest work leaving it only accessible in playlists, ignore it completely and quietly note to not do that in the future, or if it's really egregious they might end up deleting the video. (Example being Lord Bung who has removed a fairly difficult to make animation video in which a slur was used as a part of a script, even though Bung themselves is a part of said minority the slur was used against, so the removal was purely because they weren't proud of that content anymore. Another example is Jaiden Animations who unlisted her video playing minecraft with CallMeCarson after the latter was accused of grooming a 17 year old)
I mean I don't know how to take a message from someone who you know have some drama/beef with a friend you know that seems to be doing okay and all you were intending was just having a cameo then sure I can see why he brushed it off especially when all he really had was Alax's side. Still not excuse but I get it and maybe this will be a turning point to get Scott to cut Alax off for good considering all this cameo did was paint Scott in a bad light. If this was a proper collaboration than yeah this would be much more indefensible and he should've done more research into this.
Really there isn't much of a way Scott can look that good from a statement addressing this especially when it concerns issues between two people (though it should be noted that one of them is absolutely in the wrong). He inadvertently took a side and the best way he can come off this is that Alax insisted that this was nothing personal drama and that Bobdunga had more beef with him. So if he doesn't choose his words right he could make the accusations sound more grey than it is and accidently get his fans to harass Bobdunga trying to cover his ass. There just isn't anyway a statement can help at this point so better to take the L and try not to do anything with Alax in the future
That's because cancel culture doesn't exist and never has. If it did Louis CK and Chappelle wouldn't be still making Netflix specials. Actual accountability is extremely rare. More often than not a public flogging is just going to act as a boost in popularity for said person. Its exactly why right wing grifters have really clutched onto the term heavily this year. They can play the oppressed victim and garner more support from people.
I'm now just reminded sleazeball ProJared has already weazeled his way back to YT pretending like nothing happened. Apparently all you have to do is look the other way while shovelling shit on a grave.
I feel there is an important distinction in scale here. Popular entities with fairly universally appealing audiences who get publicly flogged will often be able to bounce back and use the entire thing as a popularity boost (and frankly, I suspect a certain individual at the moment is deliberately causing as much controversy in the court of public opinion since they know they're big enough to bounce back from it. If you're wondering who, all I'll say is "minecraft speedrunner drama").
People with more niche audiences on the other hand often can't bounce back, even if the accusations are dubious or weak (which, like, dubious claims have happened before, even on a large creator who was able to bounce back. A recent attempt at such a thing on a large scale was a disgruntled mod trying to drag vinny from vinesauce, which seemed to be straightforward until one of the people who was a supposed victim in the accusations literally said that their messages were being taken out of context and misrepresented and the entire thing pretty much imploded.)
Of course, the people who complain about this stuff are pretty much always the ones with an actual audience that they can just bounce back from (cuz otherwise you wouldn't be hearing about it...), so the entire thing can easily (and often does) turn into a motte and bailey fallacy, where the people who cry the loudest are often the indefensible ones who then try to defend the defensible stuff.
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As a general rule, I would encourage people to assume good faith, cross-reference the facts you can whenever possible, make sure to not accidentally assume things that aren't there and realize when an argument is poorly supported. Especially in the current age of digital information where fabrication of things is extremely easy, I would always recommend people who have decent accusations to provide as much information as they can; active video footage of a page being loaded that contains incriminating content is something that most people can provide and as a general rule will help stop people using inspect element to fabricate things.
If you're willing to get more technical: Discord messages are pathetically easy to edit on Desktop, but their message IDs aren't and most people don't know how to properly fabricate them. You can deconvert those into the datetime at which point the message was sent to see if they are real. Phone screenshots are mostly useful if taken from twitter DMs because they show the @, otherwise take them with a grain of salt; someone could be using two alt accounts to pose as someone. Email is extremely easy to edit depending on the mail client and most people don't sign their emails because that process is ridiculously difficult.
There's tons of techniques out there to verify whether a piece of evidence is real or not, including cross-referencing other accounts (specifically those with statuses made at the timeframe of occurence, assume by default that any made after the evidence is put up are likely to be supportive and could be conspiratorial).
Often the evidence aligns, but there's cases where it doesn't.
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I should once again clarify: NONE of this applies to the relaxalax situation. I have not looked into that situation and it does not apply to what I said. I simply have not investigated it and don't feel extremely inclined to do so right now (I don't watch the creator in question, nor do I have friends who watch them).
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I seriously think that he probably didn't even bother to do any check on it most YouTubers who do those cameos just do so to kind of give each other promotion and all that. I have no opinion further cuz I don't like the dude in the first place.
Really sucks that this happens and I'm still upset that I every so often get recommendations to that racist fucker, Tron Jon or whatever
Really sucks that this happens and I'm still upset that I every so often get recommendations to that racist fucker, Tron Jon or whatever
I watch Scott intermittently. He has a strange sense of humor and can be critical of things without acting like the stereotypical comic book guy "worst <insert product here> ever" when it comes to critiquing things.
So I hadn't seen his 200th episode yet, I do recall vaguely him soliciting interested parties to work with him on a project months ago, so this was probably said project. Very disappointed he let a rapist appear.
So I hadn't seen his 200th episode yet, I do recall vaguely him soliciting interested parties to work with him on a project months ago, so this was probably said project. Very disappointed he let a rapist appear.
I appreciate how you're advocating for looking for hard facts through this situation as opposed to relying on hearsay. I think there's some room where you can make inferences that establish a likely narrative that we can work off until more information surfaces. While we don't have hard facts on the exact interchange between Raven and Scott, I don't see a reason to doubt Raven's account, especially given the previous circumstances and threads I engaged in about her story with Alax. Scott's current silence is also disconcerting
So, no, we don't have enough hard evidence to come to definitive conclusions about what's happened here, but I don't have a reason to doubt Bobdunga at the moment. Like you mentioned, though, this is at this time of writing, and it's possible that anything can change
A lot of YouTubers seem to get their shit outted in public; so to say he just "doesn't know" is seems more like consciously sticking your fingers in your ears and having your abuser-buddy's back. :/ The OP shows a tweet that says she was ignored despite reaching out. As is a lot of similar complaints about harassment women often face for just bringing up bullshit they deal with. It's ironic and shitty.
It's the fact that (from what I can recall) Scott unfollowed Bobdunga on Twitter after she tried to give him fair warning about Alax that's disconcerting to me.
I now have mixed feelings on Scott for a multitude of reasons, where weeks ago I felt like he was easily one of the most well-intentioned and likable gaming personalities in the YouTube stratosphere. Everyone whose judgement that I tend to trust, seemed to have vouched for him over the years as a very kind, charitable and friendly person. I felt even stronger seeing him as the first mainstream YouTuber (that I was aware of) to not only support BLM but to actually get outside and join protests.
I don't know why he did this.
I've been in complicated situations where a friend was in a very challenging spot, but my first instinct is always to listen to accusers first. And if Scott wanted to avoid any of this, the best move would be to just not include this individual.
Not sure what he can do to help the situation now. If RA is truly an old friend of his, he may be personally influenced by his version of events. But that's me speculating on nothing.
I hope he apologizes on some level, even if it won't satisfy most. If not, I hope he never includes that dude again.
No one is perfect but come on, at least demonstrate an ability to listen and to grow.
I don't know why he did this.
I've been in complicated situations where a friend was in a very challenging spot, but my first instinct is always to listen to accusers first. And if Scott wanted to avoid any of this, the best move would be to just not include this individual.
Not sure what he can do to help the situation now. If RA is truly an old friend of his, he may be personally influenced by his version of events. But that's me speculating on nothing.
I hope he apologizes on some level, even if it won't satisfy most. If not, I hope he never includes that dude again.
No one is perfect but come on, at least demonstrate an ability to listen and to grow.
I am not saying that bobdunga is wrong actually. I am saying that people should look at what is actually written in her statements. All you can conclude from her statement (she just said one thing so permit me a little examination) is well:
bobdunga on twt said:
Here is what you can conclude from this statement:
- Bobdunga isn't blaming anynoe who appeared in the video.
- They had no idea who would be featured.
- She blames the person who organized the thing.
- She told him what happened in DMs and he ignored her.
Tama Hero's statement was made before bobdunga made hers, so we can logically infer that none of the creators involved were aware of who would cameo alongside them from her statement (it's not a weird conclusion). This begs another question: how does bobdunga know that alax was going to feature in the video before it went up when from what I can tell she had no special connection with Scott's production process?
This is a fairly crucial piece of evidence that the known facts don't state. As a result, we at the moment simply cannot reliably conclude whether or not her contacting Scott was before or after, which is fairly important in discussing this situation. If we had a screenshot of her contacting Scott, we could date the entire thing and figure it out exactly.
Again, I fully believe that bobdunga contacted Scott about this; I am assuming good faith on her end that this was something she both could do and did at some point, it is not anything that would require special evidence from me. However, getting a clear timeframe (especially since the comment was made after the video went live and after Tama Hero already pointed it out) is extremely important to gain an understanding here and we just don't know all the facts right now.
It all depends here on the question of when Scott was contacted. If it was before the video went live, we can reasonably assume that bobdunga was aware of this cameo happening and it makes Scott a fairly clear asshole. If it was after, the entire situation becomes much more thorny and messy because you get into the territory of "should creators remove and reupload a video, even if it's really popular" (Borderline Forever went trending pretty much instantly after it was uploaded; reuploading it would mean tanking all of it's views and it likely wouldn't hit trending again) and if Scott is simply sticking his head in the sand because one of his friends may have been an asshole that he was unaware of during production (we can reasonably infer that he saw the DMs at least, given the good faith assumption that he followed her at one point), which only makes his subsequent behavior disconcerting.
There's a lot of factors playing into this and because of the sheer importance in how to proceed this argument on what Scott's accused of (one makes him a defender of a rapist/abuser, the other means he let his friend cameo; it's known that Scott barely uses social media so the plausibility of him missing the relaxalax allegations during the production of his video is there) I am very hesistant to conclude anything either way right now.
I am open to seeing and hearing more evidence on this situation as it develops. I really enjoy Scotts content and whilst this won't be a dealbreaker for me, I do want to figure out what's going on because I'd hate for this to be a skeleton that rots in the closet and poisons his content forever.
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Finally I want to ask Neoxon to see if he can update his OP to not include this assumption that he was contacted before hand (specifically this line: Bobdunga confirmed that she warned Scott about Alex prior to the video's creation), unless he has direct evidence to back that up, because people here who only read the OP are running wild with it and it could easily result in the entire situation becoming muddled as people will run on assumptions and well... assuming makes an ass of you and me..
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I remember being confused about the RelaxAlax stuff when it first came out... particularly I remember there was some Discord Mod of his which tried to make it all about him that muddied the water?
But I stopped watching his videos because the titles started to become super click baity, and his appearance changed and he gave off that vibe fallen content creators give off. He made a apology video too and that's usually a bad sign.
I've never watched Scott regularly though. He pops up in my recommendations a lot but none of his subject matter interests me. Except I know he has that "innocent good boy" reputation.
For me if something bad came out about Matt M muscles, NitroRad, or AntDude I'd be broken though.
But I stopped watching his videos because the titles started to become super click baity, and his appearance changed and he gave off that vibe fallen content creators give off. He made a apology video too and that's usually a bad sign.
I've never watched Scott regularly though. He pops up in my recommendations a lot but none of his subject matter interests me. Except I know he has that "innocent good boy" reputation.
For me if something bad came out about Matt M muscles, NitroRad, or AntDude I'd be broken though.
Scott the Woz was warned about RelaxAlax over a year ago
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Having personally spoken with Bobdunga, I can confirm that she warned Scott about Alex more than a year ago in the hopes that Scott would speak out against him. Scott eventually unfollowed her at some point this year.
This might be why but it still doesn't make up for the fact that the decision to have him was so incredibly stupid. Like there really is no excuse because at this stage he should know how the internet is. It doesn't matter how he feels, it matters what was done.
He deserves the criticism.
I see. That is quite damning and disconcerting. Of course, once again I am believing witness testimony here (now from you), but I am assuming good faith that you are speaking the truth here.
Ideally I would prefer hard evidence of this (DM screenshots would be nice), but I understand that those might be not something you want to turn over/even have.
I think it's fine to want further info before you pass your own judgment of the situation.
I think if you want to do the above the least you can do is stay out of the way of people who have, constantly and repeatedly, seen this situation play out in the exact same way. If the court of law could be trusted to its damn job the court of public opinion wouldn't be so damn angry. Be insistent on information, though. That part's good, but don't use the search for information as a shield. ScottTheWoz isn't going to jail because he's allegedly being a shithead here, you've just got a lot of people mad at him for shit these guys get away with all the time.
When the news about Game Grumps' Dan Avidan came out that he groomed a teenager and manipulated women for sex, I believed it in full. When it was later elaborated by the actual person involved that he hadn't groomed anyone, that the evidence of his manipulations was sourced from kiwifarms, and that this was mostly being driven by a subreddit where most posts are "bring Jon back the SJWs ruined Grumps", I went back to watching his work. I feel zero shame in this. I would prefer to live in a society that properly condemns sex abusers and not illegal but still scumbag predators, but I can't rely on that to work itself out, so instead all I can do is be supportive of these claims until such a time, hypothetically, it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they're false.
I'd like to believe in "innocent until proven guilty", if I were in a situation where I was falsely accused and my friends turned on me I'd probably be emotionally crushed and traumatized, but we've failed too many people too many times to allow the court of public opinion, however you want to define that, to be silent and wait and see when what ends up happening is that we forget all about it and everything goes back to normal save whoever spoke up got doxxed.
I think if you want to do the above the least you can do is stay out of the way of people who have, constantly and repeatedly, seen this situation play out in the exact same way. If the court of law could be trusted to its damn job the court of public opinion wouldn't be so damn angry. Be insistent on information, though. That part's good, but don't use the search for information as a shield. ScottTheWoz isn't going to jail because he's allegedly being a shithead here, you've just got a lot of people mad at him for shit these guys get away with all the time.
When the news about Game Grumps' Dan Avidan came out that he groomed a teenager and manipulated women for sex, I believed it in full. When it was later elaborated by the actual person involved that he hadn't groomed anyone, that the evidence of his manipulations was sourced from kiwifarms, and that this was mostly being driven by a subreddit where most posts are "bring Jon back the SJWs ruined Grumps", I went back to watching his work. I feel zero shame in this. I would prefer to live in a society that properly condemns sex abusers and not illegal but still scumbag predators, but I can't rely on that to work itself out, so instead all I can do is be supportive of these claims until such a time, hypothetically, it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they're false.
I'd like to believe in "innocent until proven guilty", if I were in a situation where I was falsely accused and my friends turned on me I'd probably be emotionally crushed and traumatized, but we've failed too many people too many times to allow the court of public opinion, however you want to define that, to be silent and wait and see when what ends up happening is that we forget all about it and everything goes back to normal save whoever spoke up got doxxed.
I actually didn't say that and again I don't like the fool so I don't really care. I'm saying for the most part most YouTubers don't care as long as they get promotion.
I remember Korey from double toasted explicitly said he knew nothing about he Change the Channel stuff and continually has people like Brad on. And also people brought up the Mike Matei stuff before his interview with AVGN, somebody deleted comments. Mine included.
The reason is simple when you're on YouTube there seems to be this whole dismissive nonsense about whatever because he as long as I get some more eyes on my channel, then that's all that matters. Can't tell you how many times my friend who does some pretty decent numbers gets asked to do collabs with people who would not fit the channel at all. And this is outside of gaming YouTube.
I am not actually doing that fwiw. I legitimately was looking for evidence and now I have some that I feel is substantial enough to feel like I can conclude something (cross-referencing Neoxons threads in OP suggests that him having been in contact with bobdunga is a plausible enough reality).
I can only say right now that I am disappointed in Scott and that he's gone from "unproblematic fave" to "problematic fave", which honestly most people end up in unless worse accusations come forward that Scott has actually done bad things himself, which would be the thing that makes it enough for me to drop him entirely. That said, I do fully agree that this is a personal metric I am using and I don't blame anyone who thinks differently and doesn't feel comfortable watching Scott anymore.
Ah, I was not aware of this. I had heard about the accusations against Avidan, but that is a real relief to hear. Means I can finally enjoy Ninja Sex Party/Starbomb again without having that nagging voice at the back of my head.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying Accounts of Sexual Assault
This doesn't really make Scott look worse. Hell under certain contexts it's actually a little more understandable why he did what he did.
If he had an entire year to marinate on it and hear both sides out but having a more personal connection with one then it makes sense why he decided to stick with Alax considering he's more personal with Alax than Bobdunga and it would be a lot easier for him to convince Scott it was just a messy breakup. If anything kind of feel sorry for Scott he got himself tied up with this because of Alax
It was still a bad look for him and put me off watching the grumps, unless the part about sleeping around and ghosting them after was also fabricated. Everyone makes "mistakes", but that changed how I saw them.
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If anything, it's worse. He knew well ahead of time about the allegations, & she wasn't the only one to speak out against Alex. The fact that he ignored all of that to side with Alex is a problem in & of itself. The easy way out would've been to not include Alex in the video at all if Scott was really that conflicted. By including him, not only is he saying that Alex his actions were ok, but he's also ignoring the pleas of his victims (the irony of which was mentioned in the OP).
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It's funny, somehow I can always sniff out the shitty content creators well in advance of anything bad coming out about them. Got a bad vibe from Scott from the very beginning, though I admit I did enjoy some of his content a fair bit. If your friend is a shitty person and possibly a rapist, the least you can do is not give them a platform after such a public blowup.
Out of all the YouTubers/Twitch streamers out there who aren't completely obnoxious I'm basically down to just CallMeKevin, I can't imagine that dude ever being toxic.
Out of all the YouTubers/Twitch streamers out there who aren't completely obnoxious I'm basically down to just CallMeKevin, I can't imagine that dude ever being toxic.
Maybe I just have a different frame of reference here, but from what I can tell nearly every celebrity from the 80s and 90s has had incidents like that, so ghosting someone doesn't quite concern me that much to have a permanent nagging voice at the back of my mind like "this person has slept with people who may not be legal and/or has engaged in dubious consent" tends to do that makes it impossible to enjoy their content. Granted, I don't actually watch grumps, I just liked Starbomb a lot.
In the end the people you watch are stil humans, and it is extremely dangerous to assume that they are larger than life figures and it only sets you up for disappointment. We're all jumbled balls of ideas, opinions, lived experiences and we can make incorrect judgement calls based on very personal reasons.
It was, yeah, at least as far as the sources given in that thread are concerned at any rate. The information about him "sleeping around and ghosting them" is what came from kiwifarms and hasn't been otherwise corroborated.
Scott: "Been 2 years since the allegations first broke out, and 1 year since I was DM'd by that girl. Time to bring mah boi back into the fray"
- Status