It makes no sense for them to say that there won't be any xbox series x exclusives for the first year or two and say that current gen won't hold back graphics, and then try to blow people's minds with a next gen exclusive. That makes zero sense.
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Phil Spencer: "the diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market"
- Thread starter pswii60
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It makes no sense for them to say that there won't be any xbox series x exclusives for the first year or two and say that current gen won't hold back graphics, and then try to blow people's minds with a next gen exclusive. That makes zero sense.
The good news is that's not what was said.
1) Matt booty said, in nov 2019, that all XGS games will play up and down the family of devices for the next 1 to 2 years. This means at some point between nov 2020 and nov 2021 there can be next gen exclusives.
2) Spencer said baseline hardware doesn't hold back the fidelity of games running on high end hardware. This makes perfect sense to say regardless of how many cross gen games they are making.
3) it makes perfect sense to blow people's mind with an exclusive, who would complain about having more things to look forward to?
You can bet MS showcase will have some crossgen games with visuals on XSX that take full advantage of next-gen hardware capabilities AND some next gen exclusives. This wont in any way contradict anything they've said.
What doesn't mean make sense is taking what MS officials have said to mean that next gen exclusives are 3-4 years out... when they've already confirmed next gen exclusives.
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but they have literally already done that with the Medium and Hellblade 2 trailers. both are next gen only exclusives.
i am expecting just halo and everwild to be cross gen games at the conference. everything else should be next gen. maybe forza 8 since it started dev 3 years ago, maybe. everything else shown will be next gen only.
Phil is only saying these things because they might not have a next gen exclusive at launch or during the launch window. by holiday 2021 they should have a next gen game out, and by 2022 they should be next gen only.
Yeah my guess is Halo, Forza Motorsport, Everwild and one surprise game will be cross gen.
Everything else will be next gen only.
The Medium is not a Microsoft game at all. Hellblade 2 isn't exactly clear given that was in-engine and that can mean all kinds of things.
Regardless of what you think it should be I mean, man Microsoft said there wouldn't be any, so showing them would run counter to this pro-consumer narrative they're trying to push.
...They literally said everything would be cross gen. That's...did you read the OP? Have you read anything on the topic.?
They said for 1-2 years after nov 2019 everything will play across the xbox box family... that time period ends between nov 2020 and Nov 2021.
I've read everything. Have you read and comprehended everything?
Showing nextgen games wouldnt run counter to any narrative at all. They can simultaneously show commitment to current gen owners by continuing to offer them software, while also showing software that only next-gen customers will get. These arent mutually exclusive concepts.
Microsoft wants to say:
a) Xbox one doesn't hold next gen back
b) they are pro-consumer by making games available for the whole family of systems.
Advertising at their first 1st party event that they are going to be making games that aren't on xbox one is a direct conflict with the two messages they want to push.
How the fuck can you say you're pro-consumer by making games for xbox one and then literally only two it for one season into the series x. Come the fuck on. You are not thinking about this clearly at all. That is a direct contradiction to the messaging. You don't make a big deal about releasing all your games everywhere and how that's your philosophy if you're literally only going to do it for one year where it counts. That is ludicrous.
Last gen there were some cross-gen games, but the majority of them were 3rd party. Prior to that there were basically none. I don't think saying that they will only support 1st party games for a year or two into the life of the Series X is in any way a contradiction to their pro-consumer message. Also the fact that Xbox One availability seems to be drastically going down contradicts the point you're trying to make. If they were planning on supporting Xbox One consoles for more than a year or two why would they basically stop making them? Especially when they could likely do another price cut?
This is some insane logic.
They can support players on the old gen and make next gen only games at the same time. These are not mutually exclusive concepts.
People like you are hilarious. It's somehow the wrong strategy to commit to releasing some cross-gen games. But it's also wrong to make some exclusive next games.
Nobody gave a fuck when Nintendo's released games for switch and wii u, while also having switch exclusives in the oven. No one gave a fuck when Playstation released GT6 for PS3 after PS4 launched. Or when they rereleased Ps3 games for ps4. But somehow MS making some games crossgen for awhile, but having nextgen exclusives lined up for shortly thereafter is a unforgivable "contradiction".
Dude. I know they can do that. That is my opinion too. But they made a point of saying that means all games.
THEY SAID THAT ALL GAMES ON ALL PLATFORMS WAS PROCONSUMER. NOT ME.
They made no such point.
They said their upcoming slate would be crossgen for upto a year after launch. They believe that people who buy xbox ones late in the cycle should still get good new software.
They also said, baseline targets wont negatively impact the fidelity of games on their high end hardware.
There's no contradiction here whatsoever.
But how are they going to do that, if they still have to make their games run on a much underpowered hardware (lockhart) as well?
The same way we always do it, scalable engines and assets designed from the get go to handle the difference in SKUs. Microsoft have the money, technical insight and resources to do it if anyone does.
Talking about that reminds me of IdTech4 and its absurdly dynamic OpenGL pipeline and renderer, that could be reconfigured to run on a Voodoo 2 (in the era of the original Xbox) of all things, this from same engine that introduced fully real-time dynamic shadowing and normal mapping. It was nuts.
Lockhart as far as I know, is designed to run next-gen games at 1/4 of the resolution. It that's why it has the same CPU/SSD, just a different GPU.
Having said that, I expect most games to scale down to Lockhart reasonably well, with perhaps RTX reduced or switched off.
I'm also not going to be surprised if there are situations where developers may have to restrain their vision for a project slightly, as not absolutely everything can be scaled.
Ultimately, the real gamechangers are the SSD tech/CPU's which are significant next-gen upgrades.
I stand by my statement that there will be at least two years of no next-gen exclusive XGS games, I dunno where you guys got your info to dispute that.
Phil Spencer:
I'm ok with no exclusives on series x; the only thing I want is a mandatory performance mode on all series x badged games... I'm really tired of my 2012 pc playing games better than my one x because developers force quality mode instead of letting me choose. Doubly so since I have a 1080p TV (and I'm not planning to change).
And if I'm really lucky, those games chunking along on the one x will be fast on the series x.
And if I'm really lucky, those games chunking along on the one x will be fast on the series x.
Compare AC Valhalla or Watchdogs Legion to Horizon Forbidden West. Why do the former 2 look so much worse than the latter while having the benefit of running on a more powerful system?
Why are some of you saying 2021 or more specifically nov 2021 like a fact when there is no indication from Matt and Phil as to a time line other than couple of years. Phil saying it this weeks means we are talking atleast 2022 until next gen exclusives from Xbox first party. I honestly think a lot of their next gen exclusives aren't going to land until 2022 especially with COVID so they are getting ahead of it and putting a pro consumer spin on it.
And yet they they have fewer man hours, usually by quite some margin, devoted to them than ubisoft games.
It's like the cross play MMORPG example I used. In Final Fantasy XI developers couldn't make life easier for PC players because that would be unfair for PS2 players. MMORPGs can be updated and drastically changed throughout it's life, but because a less powerful console shared the servers PC players was held back and upset at PS2 players. The same for PS3 and PC with Final Fantasy XIV. Square had to discontinue the PS2 version of FFXI, and the PS3 version of FFXIV to take the game forward with better game design, bigger areas, epic battles, and quality of life things like bigger inventory.
Also they get to focus on one console. Multiplatform games (not on mobile or Switch) have to make games for original Xbox One that shipped with the kinect, to 2080ti Ryzen PC. So by the time it makes it to that 2080ti the best they can probably do gameplay design wise is probably not much other than add shiny paint to it or maybe add density/less notiecable pop-in.
Skyrim is old as old can be, but modders still make it look* good with pretty much game overhauls but it's still Skyrim, and plays/animates like it's in 2011.
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I know, im posting it as evidence that slower hardware does indeed hold things back. Multiplatform does as well but thats a separate topic.
I touch on the down side of developing for multiple platforms at the same time, but I'm still talking about slower hardware holding things back.
If Skyrim 2011 was remastered it would not hold up well to current gen games, actually that's what we got with Skyrim Special Edition (do'h). Yet comparing it to Horizon Zero Dawn looks like no contest. In fact seeing Horizon Zero Dawn made me delete my well modded Skyrim before, I eventually modded it again to try it on a NVMe SSD (didn't realize ENB shader compile was the reason it booted up so slow). While it looks ok, it's just not so great because of the base people improved on. In looks alone it takes so much effort to make it kind of on the level of current gen games like Horizon ZD and Assassin's Creed O's, hardware power, and a massive amount of storage space for the mods.
I just tried to be funny.
Oh. Hard to know with how many people actually post that in complete seriousness.
Because they stop making the consoles doesn't mean people don't already own the consoles and will need new software to play....and the majority of xgp subs are Xbox one owners hence MS may feel obligated to develop for both x1 and series x for the foreseeable future (even past the 1-2 years)
At some point surely its buyer beware? Like we wouldn't recommend anyone buy a RTX20xx card right now as you can get the same power for less, or more power for the same money when 30xx is released. If you buy an Xbox one or PS4 after 7 years, and especially after they've already announced their successors, you should have an idea that you probably aren't going to get a big long list of new games like there were in the prevoius 7 years.
its shown across many different generational transitions so there is plenty of history of this happening. And most likely if you're buying in now, you're more interested in the cost of the consoles and want something on a budget. In that case you can spend years buying decently discounted XB/PS games, getting the games with gold/PS+ games, maybe a gamepass sub. The available catalog to you is huge - bigger than anyone that bought the console before you as its always growing.
There will always be a 1-2 year cross gen period too so you'll get your FIFA updates etc. Potentially this time with x86 common architecture those evergreen titles will be supported for even longer.
Even the gamepass argument. MS has a few hundred titlees on there. There are thousands of Xbox games. Plenty of choice to refresh the catalog for XB1 owners. But - I understand as they want to grow the service they may want to maintain a large addressable market. Thats a business decision they're free to make. I just don't buy that its 'consumer choice' - its MS choice which suits their business. I'd argue there is just as much consumer choice allowing me to play new games on new hardware rather than holding things back and not showing me what this new box I just bought can do because you're also still supporting older boxes. Where is the consumer choice for the early adopters? My guess is they know they'll buy it anyway so dno't need to worry about that. And after that first wave of early adopters, the non cross gen games will start coming in.
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Yeah, it's the new "all Sony games are the same third-person-cinematic-game"-meme for me xD
Sooooo, with Microsofts complete lack of any impressive crossgen games the answer should now be obvious to everyone.
It is obvious. Almost all Xbox first-party games today looked like current-gen games. It's so weird.
Yea, people told me I was concern trolling and none of those folks have returned to this thread. I wonder why lol.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the majority was concern trolling.
Having said that, today's presentation was underwhelming because there was a stark contrast between their messaging about how powerful the console is and what was actually shown.
It might not be fair because we are at the beginning of a new generation and footage isn't reflective of what the console can actually do but for now we have to judge by what we have.
I mean, it was also underwhelming because of what we saw running on actual PS5 hardware, things like Ratchet and that UE5 demo. I've been saying for months (since I read Matt Booty's old "no XGS next-gen exclusives for 1-2 years" correctly) that they can have the most powerful console all day but it won't matter if they arent going to make games that show off that discrepancy... and clearly the whole "it just scales" nonsense has been laid bare imo
If you took a know-nothing casual off the street, showed them the Playstation conference and this Xbox Conference back to back and asked them which console they think is more powerful, what do you think they would say?
It wasnt concern trolling. This result should have been obvious to anyone who's been around for the last 5 or more years. Especially in the age of Digital Foundry.
This comment was always utter bollocks. Compromises are always made when you have to target widely divergent hardware specifications. Nothing is free, everything is effort, time and resources.
Cross-gen is a boat anchor for next gen, as was the case last gen and Lockhart will gimp games, the only uncertainty is the extent of the gimping.
Cross-gen is a boat anchor for next gen, as was the case last gen and Lockhart will gimp games, the only uncertainty is the extent of the gimping.
It was always obvious, but for some reason people didn't want to look at history, or the state of PC currently. On PC extra power is used to push games to 144fps and beyond, 4k, raytracing, extra effects, and maybe something crazy like 4k super sampled just because.
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