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Feb 24, 2018
5,327
For me, this incident is reminding me just how depressingly normalized ableism is and how so many people in the world think mocking people's medical conditions is okay and funny. The fact Chris's actions beforehand are treated as a non-issue by some many around the web is so irksome.

Can't blame Will for what he did, may not have been the smartest thing but don't really feel sorry for Chris here and what he did feels understandable.
 

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,923
All this philosophizing and pearl-clutching over a slap the affected person isn't even gonna press charges for. The Internet is just obnoxious right now.

It really is. Like, you either want Will Smith to go to jail for this or you think violence in any form is always okay. There's no middle ground allowed.
 

slorelli

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,158
Ohio
When people suggest that no words in any context justify violence they're [reasonably and justifiably] calling you out because thats not the case in real life. There are a bunch of things that you can say to someone else that will absolutely invite violence upon you, and justifiably so. Maybe the baseline should be not to insult people to their face so you limit your exposure to violence.
For me personally, there is just nothing for me to gain by attacking someone over words. I might feel good for a minute but the consequences of my action far outweigh that gratification. I could lose my job, career and family all over an angry response.
 

Jet Jaguar

Member
Dec 3, 2017
2,574
About a slap in the workplace - this actually happened in my previous workplace. A woman slapped a man during normal working hours without any reason or provocation. After reviewing the CCTV footage she was sacked for gross misconduct on the basis of physical harm and citing that he gave her an "odd" look.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,391
The Oscars takes all the wrong lessons next year with Idris Elba giving Tom Hanks a German suplex through a table while presenting Best Director.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,743
About a slap in the workplace - this actually happened in my previous workplace. A woman slapped a man during normal working hours without any reason or provocation. After reviewing the CCTV footage she was sacked for gross misconduct on the basis of physical harm and citing that he gave her an "odd" look.

This seems kind of unrelated to the situation at hand if she did it for basically no reason and then tried to excuse it later on by saying he looked at her funny, something no one could really confirm or deny.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
NYC
How do we know that all of this isn't just to purchase attention for the Oscars? Show's been off the air for two years and was mired in controversy pre-pandemic. Now everyone is talking about it. Y'all see that as a coincidence?
Lol. Academy's 'best' idea of increasing interest in oscars has been to bloat category nominations to a stupid amount to get more people who might have an interest in what's nominated.

It's a real gigabrain idea to assume they suddenly jumped to an andy kaufman-esque performance with with will smith and chris rock of all people, while also apparently giving chris rock a crash course in acting to make it sell, and convincing smith somehow that tarnishing his rep was somehow worth it for a stunt.

Now I'm sure the academy doesnt actually give two shits about this and is loving the attention and ratings they got for free, they only are looking to figure out how to respond in a way that lets them have their cake and eat it too.
 

slorelli

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,158
Ohio
The most frustrating part about comments like this is that they purposefully avoid the context behind the slap and simplify it to "a joke."

It wasn't "physical violence caused by a comment/joke."

It was "physical violence caused by a man making fun of a woman's medical condition to her face and in front of her husband and that same man had made shitty 'jokes' about her before."

If someone comes up to you and your partner at the store and makes fun of how they looks, you're unlikely to walk away. There will be some sort of confrontation.
Sure there would, but it wouldn't be physical.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,498
Half of them always shocked when some white dude goes on a shooting spree. But no, this is the incident where we need to come to the table about violence.
Yep. Same people who were also talking about "the children" and "the fans" that look up to Will Smith. About the example this sets. How this normalizes violence. Yadda yadda yadda.


Clutching the pearls so hard that they nearly turn into singularities.
 
OP
OP
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,104

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,611
Chicago
Some of the people in this thread that are "ok" with physical violence caused by a comment/joke is mind blowing. So if someone pisses you off, you just slap them?
If you cross another human being's boundaries that you may or may not assume are in place and crystal clear.

Be ready for what's next. Despite what you think is right or wrong, just be ready.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
My post was about people constantly equating alopecia with being a "sickness". That's it. My point is that when you call it a sickness, or an illness, you're basically making a leper out of the person who just wants to be seen as "normal".

I literally said in my post that women, especially black women, are held to higher standards that likely leads to embarrassment. But go off I guess.
This is a very different thing to what you posted. And your last sentence:

She's not sick though. The comedian was not making fun of a sick person and their dire illness.

was just a complete hand wave of the serious trauma that some women go through to accept their condition.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,743
If you cross another human being's boundaries that you may or may not assume are in place and crystal clear.

Be ready for what's next. Despite what you think is right or wrong, just be ready.

Especially when you're already on thin ice with the other person for dumb shit YOU did TO THEM in the past.

Samuel L Jackson got his lifetime achievement award yesterday and they didn't even broadcast it.

www.avclub.com

Denzel Washington was damn happy to give Samuel L. Jackson his honorary Oscar last night

Last night's Governors Awards saw Denzel Washington absolutely gleeful at the chance to give his friend Samuel L. Jackson his lifetime achievement Oscar.

☹️

I saw this later and it made me so happy for both of them. Sam deserved to get that on stage with everyone watching.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
The most frustrating part about comments like this is that they purposefully avoid the context behind the slap and simplify it to "a joke."

It wasn't "physical violence caused by a comment/joke."

It was "physical violence caused by a man making fun of a woman's medical condition to her face and in front of her husband and that same man had made shitty 'jokes' about her before."

If someone comes up to you and your partner at the store and makes fun of how they looks, you're unlikely to walk away. There will be some sort of confrontation.

The other context there is it's someone humilating a family member on the biggest stage on the world, if it was like some little private awards dinner, I think Will would've let it slide, but having your wife made fun of for a medical condition she can't control with the world watching played a factor.

It's one thing to embarrass someone for their appearance due to a medical condition on a small scale (like a comedy club or a birthday party say), it's another thing to do it on a live broadcast around the globe to hundreds of millions of people + entire world media watching. I can see why that would make someone more upset.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,288
Its always funny it see people not on the receiving end of gross bullshit telling others how to should have reacted.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
its actually incredibly important to be aggressively hostile to *mass* hysterical and reactionary behavior. suggesting things like "violence is never acceptable", referencing Ukraine, suggesting Will is mentally unwell for his actions, and the WORST of them all, hyperbolizing and exaggerating the impact of that slap. Calling it assault and deliberating over legal and criminal ramifications

very big police behavior from many. very big white behavior from many. dont be mad at me, be mad at urselves.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,281
Providence, RI
I'm an ex Marine. I've seen enough violence for 3 life times. The last thing I want is to hurt anyone. If I can escape a situation without violence, yo are damn right I am going to.

I mean, you're also clearly in a different mindset than most given your life, no?

I've never been a violent person. Never got into a real fight in my life. But if someone mocks my partner's looks in front of me? I truly don't know how I would react. Most people don't until it happens and most people aren't just walking away.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
Staff post

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
21,073
This thread going to need that staff post too.
Sure. One more time for the folks in the back:

Official Staff Communication
Staff are continuing to go through reports in the original thread, and we probably will for awhile considering that thread's size. It will also likely not be reopened, but that isn't determined at this point in time. Still, we have a lot to address since discussion has moved here, so sit down and get comfortable kids.

It is firstly most important to recognize the largest victim in this scenario: Jada Pinkett Smith. What happened to her last night is that, in a mostly white space, a Black woman was directly targeted by a person in a temporary position of power over her and made to feel lesser over an issue that not only is very personal for her, but one she cannot control. It's also an issue that, even if she could control it, inevitably plays into the sociopolitical ramifications of Black hair, especially Black women's hair, which is irrevocably tied to Black oppression. Look at the CROWN Act. Look at John Oliver's take on the matter. Hell, look at Rock's own documentary about the very subject. This is not a subject equivalent to the treatment of male pattern baldness in men, especially white men, and to treat it as such shows a telling ignorance of the matter. Pile on top of this all of the glaringly inappropriate comments about her relationship to her husband, which is all rooted in the realms of sexism and bias against those in open relationships, and what you have left at the end of it all is textbook misogynoir.

Ultimately, all Jada did last night was show up to support her husband in one of the most pivotal moments of his professional career, and she was not only attacked twice for it, but she has primarily been brought up only as a way to emasculate her husband. Jada was humiliated and then further dehumanized as a mere weapon, and that is unacceptable.

What is also unacceptable is the rampant ableism that has occurred in that thread. Of course the use of her alopecia in Chris Rock's set qualifies as this, but just as well, any psychological professional will tell you that a single moment of lost control or lack of inhibition is not any serious indicator or symptom of mental illness, or of more inappropriate terms such as being "unhinged" or "dangerous." All this kind of concern trolling and armchair diagnosis does is reinforce stereotypes that physical violence is strictly the realm of the mentally unwell, it upholds people to impossible and unrealistic standards, and it pushes away uncomfortable conversations about violence's role in the establishment and maintenance of modern society.

It cannot also be understated that these sorts of sentiments are further escalated when you factor in the Blackness of both Will Smith and Chris Rock. Black people are seen as more predominantly predisposed to violence than white people are, and thus any moment of violence on part of a Black person, especially in a predominantly white space, is amplified as an important moment, something to be outrageously afraid of, something that permanently stains not just the persons involved, but the Black community as a whole. And when you recall the fact that this is not even the first time that the Oscars have turned violent, and how little a moment where a white man had to be restrained by security from barreling down on a Native woman, actually mattered to both the lack of collective racialization of white people and an uptick in sociopolitical concern by entertainers about their safety on stage, then the double standard becomes even more obvious. Let's not even go down the road of the insistence that Rock should utilize the police against Smith, regardless of how he feels, in the aftermath of the police violence protests two years ago.

So when you get down to brass tacks, what happened last night? What happened is that Chris Rock made a dumb, dated joke about Jada Smith's lack of hair, which angered Will Smith enough to get up, open-hand slap him once, leave, and verbally berate him afterwards. Rock was understandably shocked but brushed off the incident with a calm reserve and jokes aimed at his own expense to continue on, and he ultimately decided not to press charges for the assault. Really... this is a nothingburger of an incident, beyond the fact that it happened between two multimillionaires at an awards show watched by millions around the globe.

Should you slap people for insulting your loved ones? Probably not. Was it illegal? Yes; Rock has a case if he wanted to pursue it. Is it understandable that Smith had a moment where he hit someone? Sure, human beings hit others for insults all the time, and as a highly-scrutinized celebrity, it's not surprising his threshold was reached tonight. Should a single slap be considered some watershed moment in the conversation about violence in America? Probably fucking not, considering the history and current status quo of America. Should every single illegal action that ever takes place be pursued by police involvement? Also probably fucking not. In an ironically more chill world, that thread would've been full of memes and maybe dropped off. Instead, staff are having to mill through nearly 100 reports and having to address this with a big statement because people who are constantly online can't just not be at 11 all the time.

In short, just go outside.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Sure there would, but it wouldn't be physical.

Well let me put in another way ... if you were paid as part of an experiment to walk up to couples and insult one of the partners, what are we talking here? You'd probably get slapped/punched within 15 minutes? 20 minutes? It probably wouldn't take too long.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,639
Florida
very big police behavior from many. very big white behavior from many.
M6pP9My.gif
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,281
Providence, RI

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,326
Gentrified Brooklyn
Yep. Same people who were also talking about "the children" and "the fans" that look up to Will Smith. About the example this sets. How this normalizes violence. Yadda yadda yadda.


Clutching the pearls so hard that they nearly turn into singularities.

What's the line. This was violence perpetrated on our televised airways, something you never see outside of half our pre-recorded tv shows and monthly give or take the sporting season if you want to see it live. I don't see how we bounce back as a nation☹️
 

Deleted member 12867

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,623
People actually thinking Will Smith should lose his career over this are sus af.
Edit: Actually scratch that. If you think this is that big of a deal considering all the other shit oscar winners and associates have done you're just a racist imo.
 
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