Hmm. Thanks
Maybe with better optimisation they can make it run on less powerful hw
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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Maybe with better optimisation they can make it run on less powerful hw
Even if anaconda is more powerful - how big does the difference have to be to not be disappointing to those that are conflating MS comments with anaconda being a monster.
Eg ps5 11TF, XB2 12TF. Technically ms are more powerful, but not really enough for any kind of 'win' andmsurely disappointing for many Xbox fans?
I cant see a version of the ps5 thats 399, unless it has a rather weak gpu, say 8 tps? given what we know, everything points too a 499 box.
Is there anything that suggests Lockhart have RT except for the RCC thing on the paper scribble?
Just a thought, but couldn't they use the APUs GPU specifically for RT and connect it to a more powerful GPU for regular rasterization workloads? I still don't understand how they accelerate raytracing on the hardware and how it works with hybrid rendering, so sorry for the stupid questions!
User Warned: Instigating system wars
The way I'm seeing it is that if the Anaconda is more powerful it won't matter Sony's first party games will make Anaconda look more like a garden snake....
But if Lockhart also has a SSD, Raytracing support and Zen2 CPU, is a $299 Box even possible? I'm not an Hardware expert, but can GPU alone really make $200 difference?
It would be kind of foolish to under estimate Microsoft after they've acquired all these studios.
its having a part of the gpu that has part of the math needed to do raytracing made of logic gate, aka in hardware, it lets it do the math way faster than a genral gpu could, but it will take up space on the chip.
What history?
Xb1 wasn't more powerful than PS4; 360 was probably on par with PS3 but easier to tap that power so appeared stronger at start of the gen.
OG Xbox was the only one clearly stronger but released 18 months after ps2 originally launched in japan.
its not the gpu alone, its a ssd, instead of mvne drive, its less ram, likely lower bandwith ram too, less power supply, less expensive cooling, smaller case. a weaker gpu, lets them cut back on other stuff too.
MS need to prove it. Their first party output has been pretty bad this gen, and they have a history of front loading FP support then ramping down. They need to support through the entire generation and have a broader range of content outside of forza/gears/halo.
The acquisitions are a good sign but now they need to deliver.
Sony arguably gets the benefit of the doubt for FP PS5 support due to their clear support through both PS3 and PS4 generations
no the 360 was objectively stronger, the ps3 wasnt just hard to work with, it was weaker too Df talked about it when thney did the ps3 press reveal retro video.
i highly doubt the 299 for that reason.for god sake they just released a 6 year old console with 1.3 TF and no UHD for 249. how are they gonna fit all those for 299 in a year?
You are right imo, although I believe that MS' hardware team is much better now than it used to be. I'm expecting great things from both teams honestly, although I do think MS' Anaconda will be stronger, but only because I think it will cost a bit more, but that'll be mitigated some by their other, cheaper model. Unless they eat up the cost at the start to match Sony's price. Looking at the S and X model though, I do think they'll have a better looking, and quieter console compared to Sony.
I'm just making a little joke but in all honesty the only studio they've acquired that I think can put out Sony's first party quality if they had a decent buffet is ninja theory.
I think it's interesting that people are assuming Sony will be wiling to take a big loss due, but not really mentioning MS doing the same. I know in the past people claim daddy MS can open their wallet to take a big loss but that isn't realistic as the games division has to cover its own profit/loss etc.
But I think Phil has hit a nice spot now with xCloud. The streaming offering is central to MS core services and an area where Nadella is competing. Generates synergy (sorry) with azure data centres and selling out compute capacity to enterprise; competes with google as they roll out stadia.
This time around I can actually see Nadella opening the wallet to back up Phil and try to ensure ms succeeds.
That could mean acquiring studios like they have already done, or creating more first party software. But it could also mean accepting larger losses on hardware to gain market share.
Flipside of that is if they aren't too worried about hardware because they're betting on streaming which might focus their funds on software to drive users in big streaming and hardware sides.
I actually thought Microsoft was pretty rad this generation. I skipped out on the Playstation 4 this generation. I had major fatigue with Uncharted, Little Big Planet, inFamous after the PS3 and Vita.
obsidian and ninja theory are gonna make some really cool stuff.
IMO it'll look like this:
Lockhart : 350$
PS5: 450$
Anaconda: 500$
Which is why it'll be slightly better than PS5, but Lockhart will have that 100-150$ difference so that it can tempt people into jumping in earlier at a much cheaper price. Unless MS eats up the cost a little bit and that Lockhart ends up at 300$, making up for it with Anaconda, and PS5 being 400$ out of the gate.
Hardware power is the constant factor in a closed box. software is the factor that is more dynamic.
Last cosole launch, I dont think people were pissed because they couldnt play Resogun on their xboxes... they were pissed more because their call of duties, their assassin's creeds and their battlefields played in worse fidelity.
Microsoft don't want to lose the power race next gen, so I feel their system will have a lot of punch.
For me, 60fps is my preference at 4k upscaled, native would be nice but fluidity is more important.
For me, 60fps is my preference at 4k upscaled, native would be nice but fluidity is more important.
It will be pretty amazing to be able to play cyberpunk 2077 at high/max settings at 60fps 1080p for $299
Or fable 4, bleeding edge, forza 8 etc.
And BC enhanced games could run at 4k 60fps on lockhart.
Pretty great for $299
assumptions are great yes. it wont be long before it turns into 720 P machine in 2022 with next gen engines and there is nothing MS can do about that. you guys keep using 4tf with this gen engine requirements. next gen games are more demanding.
Thats why 4TF is non sense . it will be 6 to 8 TF
Sony really did pick the perfect outlet to talk to and keep as many information secret. They could've shown them a 6TF PS5 or a 200TF thing and they wouldn't know the difference.
Yes I agree, if they want it to ensure 1080p throughout the gen, the gpu will need to be more will need to be more caperble of to doing 1080p of 4k launch exclusives.
If Ana is 12tflop, 5.5tflops would ensure 1080p.
But Microsoft will know this, they will know a 4k Ana game is going to be different to a 1440p Ana game.
Bottom line is a 1080p next gen console can work and is a good idea.
1080p is good but you won't get your desire 1080p box at 299 .
even if ms want to take hit , they will do for anaconda instead of lockhart.
you know what MS is paying for Lockhart specs!!
What else you know?
i can only see xbox 1x at 299 after next gen release.
its a an idea .whether good or bad or how 3rd parties handle it is another matter which we will see after 4 5 years.price is also very impotrant .399 and 1080P console is a flop but 299 and u r talking.
but yea 5.5 TF is safer. What if a dev has a demanding game and anaconda can only run it 1440P or 1800P ? u cant force dev to a resolution on a device .thast where some issues might arise
Yes 1080p should be possible on lockhart with a 1440p 12tflop Ana game with a 5.5tflop gpu.
We will see.
I think it will be fine.
Aquiring studios shows commitment but the output remains to be seen, especially in therms of quality which is the biggest difference between MS and Sony.
The problem is that they don't have anything to show for that studio acquisitions yet. People (outside of small places like this and Reddit communities) don't buy $500/€500 products based on hopes and dreams of what the shiny future might bring. You know the huge majority of people that make a console sell 100M+ instead of 30M+. They buy them because they want to play the next GTA, FIFA, NBA 2K, Mario Kart, Zelda, Uncharted, Horizon, God of War, Spiderman or Halo. That's why it's important that Sony keeps releasing games every single year even during the final years unlike Microsoft's last 2 generations because it makes the general audience think about the present instead of keep dreaming about a future that might or might not happen.
Then you have to add the new X factor into this transition: digital purchases accounts. You can't trade them in retail stores when you transition into a next gen and we know people that buy digital games are increasing YoY. So it's going to be even more difficult to have people "change sides" in this transition because they have to leave their purchases behind. It's like digital purchases are almost a lifetime subscription to a brand nowadays. That's why Sony are embracing backwards compatibility in this transition, they don't really care about what the consumer want (no company does, they do only if their needs match what consumer want...). They just know this is a big chip to make people stay within their ecosystem because they can still play GTA V, RDR2, Overwatch, R6 Siege, Destiny 2 online in their new shiny box without losing progress or spending extra cash. Of course some people will not care about this because they already don't especially over here, but the mainstream market are not going to change "sides" and lose their progression/money for a extra P's or fps (unless the difference is quite massive like day and night massive...)
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Why wouldn't $299 be possible?
If lock Hart has 1/2 the gpu power, 25% less ram, smaller ssd/ hard drive, cheaper cooling system and other cost cutting measures.
Maybe it will cost $329, which is still a good deal.
SSD and a good processor was probably the biggest request. A GPU jump is guaranteed, no need for wishes there. Maybe the asked for a specific amount of ram but with the insane nvme 4 speeds, I don't think ram is a big concern anymore.
lol thats exactly where i am
I had PS1, then xbox then x360 then ps3(2011 i realized i didn't like where MS was going so i switched) then ps4.
issue is that i bought 75% of my library digital and i play many of them still and the thought of leaving them behind is a no no unless microsoft console has twice the power and their exclusives are more like original xbox era or early X360 era. unfortunately with digital games it has become very hard to just jump ship like i used to do
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That didn't happen this generation though. In general, resolutions have gone up, not down.
semi true but many games couldn't hit 1080p on X1 due to engine being more demanding . once new engines are desgined with PS5 and ancando in mind , then 4 TF might not be able to hit 1080 P
Even ifx anaconda will be more powerful than ps5 I doubt the difference will be as big as ps4 and x1 and for sure less than xonex ps pro. I thini sony tartegttinf 499$ machine without compromises, not much room for improvement on 7nm for microsort
He does seem a little confused doesn't he! What he seems to be trying to say is the PS5 might be based around the new Desktop 3600G APU (20CU Navi) with (I assume) a more beefy GPU section for the PS5. Pelham Smithers is thinking that Ray Tracing is only confirmed to be in Navi 20? So assumes the GPU section must be based on that?
i'm not trying to prove it is not possible , but your expectation for 299 box is high.
Yeah it's insane. Imagine if Sony would repeat that. A AMD based console for 600 and then 300 dollar loss per unit. That thing would be a monster. Imagine any of these companies making a 900 dollar console with tech that can be easily worked with.
It's really a shame that the price of the PS3 did not show except for a few titles.
I don't see why.
Going from 12tflops to 5-6 would knock off about $100
Goimg from say 24gb ram to 16 would save a lot
Smaller ssd/HD would save somthing
Cheaper cooling solution etc
Microsoft needs a jump on Sony. They need to sell in big numbers fast
A weaker 1080p focused sku would allow them to do that, and (unlike the xbox one) would be getting new games
If theu can also demonstrate improved japanese support and bring out some big first party at launch they'll do damn good
A weaker 1080p focused sku would allow them to do that, and (unlike the xbox one) would be getting new games
If theu can also demonstrate improved japanese support and bring out some big first party at launch they'll do damn good
That's not how it works with AMD's semicustom business. For some reason people keep thinking that MS and Sony ask AMD to build something while in fact they simply choose from what is or should be available by the time their next product will arrive. So the only option for one to have RT h/w and for the other not to is for one to specifically exclude said h/w from their APU - despite it being available for inclusion. Why would a gaming console vendor exclude available RT h/w from their next GPU though? The only reason I can think of would be if this h/w is crap and will be useless in real world scenarios.
Not unless it's Intel's Optane SSD - and I doubt that it's that. It can be used as a somewhat fast HDD/BD cache though. AMD's HBCC is capable of making use of SSDs connected to GPUs in such a way.
The Xbox 4 launches this year. Halo Infinite and Forza are launch titles. All coming games are ported to it but it doesn't get any true next gen games until after the PS5 releases.
thast great except navi APU are not ready till mid 2020 .unless its using vega which is a distatser of a GPU .power hungry and mediocre performance for the price
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