I wish I didn't spoil myself. I really thought there was nothing to spoil. Oh well. The game seems to be fantastic.
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FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [Check Threadmarks For Story Details]
- Thread starter vestan
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I haven't been keeping up since yesterday but as fun as speculating about what it all means is, I go back to my original reason to doubt the game, the combat system. I've read some worrying things about it, maybe I'm overthinking it....
FF VII fan: Your honor as you can clearly see the Honey Bee Inn in the original Final Fantasy VII was a Love Hotel, while in the so called remake you can clearly see that it is now a cabaret. I paid money expecting a remake of Final Fantasy VII and all I see is a remake of Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge! except this time I do not feel like a virgin.
It's going to be really fun to speculate now, but this is truly what I believe it is lol. I don't think it will be a radical shift, but I'm happy to be proven wrong and see some crazy FF7 Rebuild.
This is what I think too, I assume the point of something like this is to give them leeway to adapt stuff from the original in a more realistic/subdued/easier way. And give themselves the option of making cuts or additions that make life easier for them.
I like these twists. They essentially revitalized this saga. Zack and Aerith are hugely popular FF characters, i've come to terms with the fact they will probably live. In the old timeline they still die but in another timeline they just live on (I really think so) which opens up lots of possibilities for Square.
The way I see this remake, I feel they know what they're doing as nothing seems to be FFXIII tier of bad. They can do with it what they want for better or worse. I actually think this is going to be a KH situation with many games telling the overall plot. I wouldn't rule out an entry that has you play as Zack but then not like Crisis Core. He survives in the alternate timeline for a reason. He still has Buster sword in that timeline as well, so Cloud didn't adapt his persona there. Isn't that an interesting what if?
On the plus side, prepare for a shit ton of FFVII goodness. Just forget the original, its there, its complete; you have played it and you know it like the back of your hand. Let yourself be surprised. If they were 100% true to the original, you would know they travel to kalm next, Cloud is going to lie about his past, then they go to Junon etc. You're waiting years for shit you exactly know how it progresses, like Cloud confessing. As an FFVII veteran I prefer the new take. Nothing is certain now.
The one issue I have with this then is that its not really FFVII Remake. Its more like a Rebirth.
The way I see this remake, I feel they know what they're doing as nothing seems to be FFXIII tier of bad. They can do with it what they want for better or worse. I actually think this is going to be a KH situation with many games telling the overall plot. I wouldn't rule out an entry that has you play as Zack but then not like Crisis Core. He survives in the alternate timeline for a reason. He still has Buster sword in that timeline as well, so Cloud didn't adapt his persona there. Isn't that an interesting what if?
On the plus side, prepare for a shit ton of FFVII goodness. Just forget the original, its there, its complete; you have played it and you know it like the back of your hand. Let yourself be surprised. If they were 100% true to the original, you would know they travel to kalm next, Cloud is going to lie about his past, then they go to Junon etc. You're waiting years for shit you exactly know how it progresses, like Cloud confessing. As an FFVII veteran I prefer the new take. Nothing is certain now.
The one issue I have with this then is that its not really FFVII Remake. Its more like a Rebirth.
Here at SE we would like to enter into a settlement for this class action. Please note that this includes an NDA against speaking about this case in public, and about Nomura ruining your childhood.
I'm all aboard this train with you, man! Before, I was interested to see how Square adapted the characters, story, and environments with a modern-day AAA budget, and they've definitely been knocking that out of the park. But now, I'm equally as intrigued to see WHAT happens next. This on-going saga now feels like an ode to the original FF7 and it's 20+ years of built up nostalgia, while also feeling new and fresh.
I can't wait to see what happens next and I'm so along for this ride. Sure, maybe it does end in a trainwreck, but if that's the case, I'll always be able to revisit the original FF7. But...what if... what if they are able to competently pull off this entire remake/readaptation? I'm going to feel like a giddy 13-year old all over again.
I would be ok with the changes if they were written by someone competent.
But letting the 3 biggest hacks at Square a have a crack at this will lead to disaster.
Nojima hasn't written anything good in 20 years while Nomura and Toriyama have never delivered a story that wasn't a convoluted mess.
But letting the 3 biggest hacks at Square a have a crack at this will lead to disaster.
Nojima hasn't written anything good in 20 years while Nomura and Toriyama have never delivered a story that wasn't a convoluted mess.
Well to be fair, everything they've touched in a directing/writing capacity in the last 17 years has been crap.
Man, both have been attached to some great games over that period. I doubt 99% of folks have even touched Nojima's projects in that time anyway (which I'll admit typically are like, great halfway through before self-destructing (Last Ranker, Sol Trigger), but that's still stronger than most lol).
nothing is modern about this version. where is the on disc dlc, where's the microtransactions? where's the free to play blitzball? where's the cloud in other people's IP?
Sorry but are there any cool story spoiler free related impressions around? I don't mind game play spoilers, would be cool to hear some general impressions and stuff though, and the thread is looking mighty dangerous peeking through.
I'm in chapter 4 now
So far the game is alot of fun fighting wise and story wise. Pacing does go from Combat to Story nicely back and forth. Each character gets introduced nicely. Theres some humor too.
Chapter 4 so far was alot of fun and picks up on bosses/fights and mechanics
I haven't read all the changes as I don't necessarily need to know absolutely everything going in; but I think people take 'remake' the word in a really weird way? Like I've seen a few comments asking how can they change so much and still call the game a 'remake'; because that is what it is.
As defined in the OED a remake is to 'Make (something) again or differently.' Emphasis on the 'differently'. Which is exactly what Square is doing and is very common to the movie world already; but perhaps not so to the game world.
The changes may be disliked or liked (as they also are in film or TV) nonetheless that doesn't make using the word 'remake' deceptive in anyway - that's what it is still - its just not a 1:1 remake as is described by the first bit of the definition in OED.
Will be interested to see how this story plays out, as skimming through and also seeing that page count jump it seems this game may have made quite a few changes. I enjoy when stories take a risk - so lets see whether it pays off in this case. FFVII is my favourite game of all time and I played that literally a week ago again - if they want to remix it - fine by me.
As defined in the OED a remake is to 'Make (something) again or differently.' Emphasis on the 'differently'. Which is exactly what Square is doing and is very common to the movie world already; but perhaps not so to the game world.
The changes may be disliked or liked (as they also are in film or TV) nonetheless that doesn't make using the word 'remake' deceptive in anyway - that's what it is still - its just not a 1:1 remake as is described by the first bit of the definition in OED.
Will be interested to see how this story plays out, as skimming through and also seeing that page count jump it seems this game may have made quite a few changes. I enjoy when stories take a risk - so lets see whether it pays off in this case. FFVII is my favourite game of all time and I played that literally a week ago again - if they want to remix it - fine by me.
I mean, their resume the past 20 years has been sketchy and mostly disappointing to me. I don't think that's any big surprise.
DOUBLE GOTCHA!
That would be so dumb...
The problem is this game has been marketed as a "Remake". Some are gonna be surprised the game is only set in Midgar. (Not everyone is up to date on these games, some just see the game at a store and go "Oh! A remake of FF7! Cool! I want to play FF7 again.") Then this will happen and people will realize this isn't, in fact, a remake at all. Honestly it's more a sequel. And while that can be cool, that's going to burn a lot of people.
What did his post have ANYTHING to do with XV?
And with the original VII you needed the AC movie (the epilogue to the story), Crisis Core (To get more plot on a pivito character of the story), Before Crisis (To understand why the Turks do what they do), and a bunch of anime and novels to understand some of the vague plot holes in the original game!
The characters are amazing in XV. Don't know why you're hammering at XV.
And they INTENTIONALLY made the game in a way so you have to buy future games to see the rest of the story. Cutting out the rest of the story to get you to give them more money. Like they're literally cutting you off to fill out more games and other projects. XD
FFXV was pretty cohesive upon release. But despite that the game today is the biggest and best it's been and holding it to a 2016 opinion, when that's not what it is now is willful ignorance. I mean people are literally confused about VII Remakes plot already. I would argue with both games you just need to pay attention and it'll be fine, but to each his or her or their own.
TWEWY is peak kino, and I will always respect Nomura just for that, no matter how terrible this reimagination may turn out.
Uhhh?
UHHHHH???
No you didn't. AC's story is ass. As is Crisis Core's story which is just an expanded version of things we already knew because they were shown in FFVII. The anime and novels aren't even canon lmao.
What things? Unless they do a complete 180 from the demo, the combat system is amazing.
The original trailer, how they've presented the game in almost all of its trailers, the boxart resembling the boxart of the original game, calling it Final Fantasy VII REMAKE
I mean, let's not kid ourselves here. They are HEAVILY trying to bank on the idea this is purely a Remake*, just so the ending can mess with you and make you go "Oh! So this simply isnt just a Remake, huh? This is a sequel!"
And by doing this not only do they get the largest possible audience by marketing it as such, but the profit the most because by the end, uninformed people will realize they have to buy more future games to see the "full" story and that OG FF7, AC, and Crisis Core are mandatory to really understand the narrative. It's absolutely the definition of a bait-and-switch.
*with small added bits to fill out a whole story for Midgar
Masato Kato's last known credit is on Another Eden in 2017 I think :(
I like AC, but just because you think a story is bad doesn't mean it wasn't necessary. FFVII ends on a vague cliffhanger. Literally a shine of light, fade into Aeriths face, cut to black. And a short "500 years later" scene with overgrowth over an abandoned Midgar. AC was the ending...until DoC.
Crisis Core fills in a plot point that was desperately needed to be explained. Who is Zack and why is he important to VII. Zack is a pivotal character and in the OG game we knew next to nothing about him other than he was a Soldier 1st Class who defended Cloud. It also explained the main villains motivation and why he is the way he is and why people used to see him as a hero.
These two things alone were crutial to understanding FFVIIs story and ending the story started in VII.
And the anime and novellas are absolutely canon. They were supervised by those at SE.
The ending of FFVII is not a cliffhanger, there was never supposed to be a sequel let alone a movie several years after the fact. It was supposed to be vague because that's the overall message, it raises a question.
"Was humanity destroyed as a result of it harming the planet?"
AC misses the point of the ending entirely. Erasing what was an incredible thought provoking ending and saying, "nope, everyone lived and we heard y'all like Sephiroth so here's more sephiroth in this incoherent tech demo of a movie."
We didn't need to know who Zack specifically was, the game told us everything we need to know.
That's the most important bit and they spent a lot of resources to show us this.
Again, this is literally all explained in the game.
We didn't need anymore context then what was needed. We weren't told anything of these things, we were SHOWN them. FFVII is a very complete story without any of the compilation material and arguably is at it's best quality when you ignore all of that. It's incredibly different from FFXV when the devs straight up admitted they couldn't tell bits of the story because of a lack of resources and thus told those stories in other mediums.
That doesn't make them canon. There are multiple inconsistencies and Zack literally gets sniped in one of the anime.
Just because the VII team struggled with story consistancy between the games doesn't mean those novellas and anime aren't canon.
Knowing who Zack is absolutely pivotal because he's the most pivotal character in the plot.
Knowing who Zack is absolutely pivotal because he's the most pivotal character in the plot.
Also, this whole defy fate thing sounds like FFXIII, they best tread carefully.
I'm into what is happening, as long as they can pull it off. It's gonna be really hard justifying Zack and Aerith living without other shocking moments. This is gonna be a wild ride.
I'm into what is happening, as long as they can pull it off. It's gonna be really hard justifying Zack and Aerith living without other shocking moments. This is gonna be a wild ride.
Probably a guy who thinks Evangelion Rebuild is (rightly) trash
I've played all the games and experienced all the animes and movies.
At no point would I ever call Zack the most pivotal character in the plot. FF7 showed us everything it needed to show us about who he was and why he mattered in a single flashback.
What the fuck is thIs? Two days ago everyone thought it was a remake, not a fucking sequel. Even now people who have no clue about the spoilers just think this is a remake. Its false marketing. Nobody wanted this, and this should be in all marketing material and let people know before spending their money.
It's not really a standard sequel. It's more like Chrono Cross or Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria in that it starts out as something you assume it to be and then it is slowly revealed that it is much more than that.
People were expecting a remake of the Midgar portion with a bunch of additions and changes to make the climax more exciting for its own game.
That's exactly what they're getting. The twists largely affect future titles, which they don't have to buy if they don't want to.
I honestly find the idea that they should spoil the game's biggest twist in marketing a little insane. Hating the twist is fine, but this is nonsense.
Imagine if people got upset that Bloodborne is actually Cosmic Horror instead of Gothic Horror because they marketed it as "Dark Souls with guns and werewolves" to keep things a surprise.
There's no expectations that the entire story should be marketed as to not mislead anyone. A game isn't just its story, all of the content they've shown and demoed are still in the game, there was no false marketing.
Compilation stuff is trash but if the only thing they take from it is the ending of Crisis Core, I can accept it to a certain degree.
If they dive too deep into it they have to deal with the idiocy of Zack going on about his bullshit about a SOLDIER's honor when he was employed by Shinra to kill people who were against the interests of the company
No he's not, Cloud is. Zack only plays a role in Cloud's backstory but everything we needed to know about him is shown to us through not just the flashback but Cloud's mannerisms. Zack was a late addition to the story and it shows, he's not the most pivotal character. And yea, when you have literally different ways a character dies you can dismiss that as not overall canon.
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Everyone keeps saying false marketing but they have been saying stuff towards this the entire time!
The initial E3 2015 trailer has hints
Like the reunion line, (that really should be OT2)
And the resurfacing at E3 2019 explicitly mentioned the watchers and how they might alter the story. This was the time pre orders opened for real too with tangible rewards, so it's not like you can say "duuuuuur, is not fair I had no chance to cancel"
The addition of new characters (Rosch and friends) also make it impossible for it to be a 1:1 remake so if that was the basis of your false advertising thing you already lost.
And the final point that you and lightsaber shaggy and physco is missing is that this is all hypotheticals we've been arguing about. At the end of the day we are still at the same place as the end of disc one. This is the killer here. All square did was tease that rails might be loose and we have yet commit to that dive. No Guarantees Arieth might live at all and you all acting as if it's fact.
You guys try to sue and your case would be literal bootycheeks so stop throwing false advertising as if you are all legal experts damn.
You mean until they made him the Forest Gump of FF7, where he had some hand in every single event/choice that led to the main game, right?
And in a more positive note, I liked that Honey Bee scene posted a few pages back. Could have gone without all the stuttering, but liked that Cloud was an active participant in the activities and not just played for laughs over how embarrassing it was to be involved in it, even if it almost got to that point at times.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST they made the church scene look good.
Basically yea.
I couldn't resist, I read all the spoilers lol. I'm much more optimistic about Remake now. Now that it's not going to be like 'we need an entire game to tell the part of the story where the party travels from Kalm to Nibelheim, then an entire game for when they get the Highwind etc'. Sounds like a much more liberated re-imagining.
But damn people are going to actually be in tears over this. It's like the Phantom Pain twist but what if you had people waiting 15 years for it or something like that
But damn people are going to actually be in tears over this. It's like the Phantom Pain twist but what if you had people waiting 15 years for it or something like that
Admittedly I only skimmed over the spoilers so that I can see them in the final game. I only know some speculation and that people are freaking out from what seems to be a direct acknowledgement that this is not the original.
Oh they want that sweet first week money.
I saw details about it and I can't agree more.
It's an awful move.
I seriously can't believe that people think they should spoil the biggest twist of the game in marketing.
How dare you. 😤
Crisis Core was amazing. The way it expanded the lore, gave much needed characterisation and depth to everyone from the Turks to Sephiroth himself, letting us see the Nibelheim incident from another perspective...
There's a reason everyone loves Zack so much and it's because of Crisis Core.
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