FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - Spoiler Discussion [Check Threadmarks For Story Details]
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You literally got that shit all wrong. Congrats.
Seeing as how everyone on board wanted Aerith dead and have said that was the most enjoyable twist they did in developing VII, please keep thinking Aerith lives and spreading that energy. Can't wait for when people actually get mind crushed twice at her death lolol
The 'Twist'
This isn't actually a remake of Final Fantasy VII. That's the big twist.
More specifically, at the end of the game, it's implied the cast breaks the "fate" of the original storyline, meaning everything after Midgar doesn't have to be anything as it was when compared to the original game.
Oh my god lmao, so basically the ambiguous ending in the original was essentially everyone dying (a lot of people assumed that was the case until Advent Children...) and this game is essentially a Sequel/AU. They LITERALLY tried doing this with the FFXV DLC until it got cancelled.
Yeah, I got the gist, almost like some weird pseudo sequel with AU implications. Holy fuck why
Ha, I always love this response. Do what the fuck you like, but whining about shit you don't like is a waste of energy. A few pages back pretty much everyone were excitedly talking about what these changes meant and now any meaningful discussion has ground to a halt to make way for petulant whining that adds nothing to the discussion. I guess it could be said that I am not helping matters but its not like you were gonna stop moaning if I hadnt and you are not gonna stop now so who cares?
Maybe going against the Arbiters also results in Sephiroth taking over, though, so eventually Cloud and co. just have to go along with it and let Aerith / Sephiroth die? That wouldn't be so bad -- in itself.
The issue is adding all this time travel / alternate universe nonsense to a game that really wasn't about that at all. Supernatural elements in the original were tied in to the game's sci-fi/cyberpunk aesthetic and the overarching ecological concerns of the plot. This is more like something out of Kingdom Hearts, and just sounds weird.
Look, Toriyama was right when he helped making FF7, he can be right when he helps making FF7R. And I despise most of what he's madeI'm calm. But I've also been burned by these particular creators so many, many, MANY times over the past two decades to give them the benefit of the doubt.
And Final Fantasy 7 has gotten a ton of garbage tie-ins and expanded material since launch that has really only lessened its legacy.
I need a reason to be optimistic. They have a long way to go to earn back all my trust.
I gotta say, the title of the game is hella clever.
I like that. It reminds me of Bravely Default Flying Fairy.
I like that. It reminds me of Bravely Default Flying Fairy.
You aren't. Your post added nothing to the discussion. Those "whining" add infinitely more than you did.
Didn't people dislike the twist in that game too? Wasn't it related to massive padding?
I thought the twist was good, clever even. I thought the implementation left a lot to be desired.
I mean, it seems like you're willing to give Tetsuya EVERYONE IS XEHANORT Nomura and Motomu MY DEAREST ROSE LIGHTNING Toriyama the benefit of the doubt. I don't. We can smell the fanfiction bullshit from a mile away.
If the end goal of this plot arc is the party realizing that fighting fate isn't always the best thing to do and letting Aeris stay dead, that's fine. But you don't this heavily telegraph FIGHT AGAINST FATE AND CHANGE THE FUTURE this early on in a story if you're not gonna do anything with it.
I think at this point that the watchers of fate stuff is just to trick people into thinking things can go differently. Sepiroth wishes to "defy" fate and tempts Cloud with the survival of Aerith and Zack. Cloud refuses and accepts what happens as it was.
Cloud dies, Zack and Aerith are the main characters of the upcoming games.
You wanna know something even more fucked up? How much do you want to bet THIS HAS to do with Kingdom Hearts in some way? Most of Nomura's projects seem to be folding into that series now: FFVersus13 and TWEWY. All this time travel stuff wouldn't surprise me if it ALL ends with Cloud, Aerith, Tifa and Yuffie ending up where they were in KH1.
This sounds horrible I know, but at this point I wouldn't even be surprised.
The twist is really good, the issue most people had was with how the pacing went in the second half.
I honestly don't think they will keep Aerith alive, just will change the situation of her death. Push it out to be more clearly her choice/more notable act. Same with Zack. They will get some sort of "together in the afterlife" scene that I hate like in AC or whatever.
Really wish they could just let Zack rest. Think the biggest thing I've disliked about all the post original game stuff has been his rise in "power" and "relevance". Also know that there are a lot more people that want more and more of him so it's what will happen. :c
Really wish they could just let Zack rest. Think the biggest thing I've disliked about all the post original game stuff has been his rise in "power" and "relevance". Also know that there are a lot more people that want more and more of him so it's what will happen. :c
I think it's going to be the opposite. Many fans of the original are actually dreading her NOT dying.
So... if she lives, ugh. That robs the game of arguably the biggest death in the entire Final Fantasy saga. There would be disappointment if she survived.
But if she dies, then many are now going to be GRATEFUL she's dead and they kept true to the original.
Neither of those outcomes are ideal. Nobody should be disappointed she lives or relieved that she dies.
Secret Ending
Final Fantasy VII remake title changed to Remake Final Fantasy VII
Just like Reconnect Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy VII remake title changed to Remake Final Fantasy VII
Just like Reconnect Kingdom Hearts
Well done champ, I agree and said as much so your reply was redundant so now who is adding nothing to discussion? I guess still me as well as I replied again!
I never understood why people obsess over Zack so much. He was great in Crisis Core, but his death is fundamental to Cloud and FF VII plot. Let him rest. Fucking fanservice all around. When we asked for a REMAKE we didnt exactly want fanservice bs
More than having clashing themes, I think that the problem is adding unnecessary stuff to a plot that was already kind of bloated and disjointed in the original game. They could end up fixing the OG's problems while adding new problems that could have been avoided.
Not gonna lie, this increased my interest for the project, but mostly because I don't care for pretty graphics so OG FF7 is all I need. I'm still completely surprised they are being so bold with this.
This was done because SE knows making a world map in a remake is impossible.
Yeah, the thought of Square being dumb enough to make it so Aeris lives makes my blood run cold. It's just such a blatant misunderstanding of the core story that I don't understand why they would even TEASE it, much less DO it.
I 100% understand why people are bothered by this, and I think that's a pretty fair sentiment.
But damn. The idea of taking what's arguably the most requested video game remake of all time and using it to deconstruct the idea of remakes and what they're "supposed" to generally adhere to is such a delightfully insane move, I can't help but love it. Even though I don't have all that much faith in Square-Enix not dropping the ball and exploring the above in a meaningful capacity, they definitely have my attention now, and this is coming from someone that was okay with a 1:1 remake with some expansions.
One ticket for the crazy roller coaster, please.
But damn. The idea of taking what's arguably the most requested video game remake of all time and using it to deconstruct the idea of remakes and what they're "supposed" to generally adhere to is such a delightfully insane move, I can't help but love it. Even though I don't have all that much faith in Square-Enix not dropping the ball and exploring the above in a meaningful capacity, they definitely have my attention now, and this is coming from someone that was okay with a 1:1 remake with some expansions.
One ticket for the crazy roller coaster, please.
It's still odd. Like, what makes Zack an interesting character is the fact he dies. That's it. Having a scene where he lives, making the best parts of Crisis Core and one of the best things in an FF this century, seems to not grasp the significance of those moments and is trying to go for a shook swerve. New fans won't have any fucking clue who this guy is, and old fans are going to be bewildered that this dude isn't laying on the ground drawing his last breaths.
I am seriously asking who is this for now. The entire time they've tried to walk a line between making a game for fans who wanted to relive the old game in a modern way and new fans to have an easy entrance to a game with a legacy. And the core hook of this iteration is to defy the legacy of the original? This seems like a bad place for new fans to come into this particular game, because they may have a completely different absorption of characters than have existed in every other FFVII related product.
Just on story, this fails to introduce the story of FFVII to new fans because the twist is it's going beyond that story. That has weight only to the people who have been begging for a remake since the PS3 tech demo, and these people still aren't getting what they've asked for.
totally the same for me. I can pretty much dream the original game, so I'm actually looking forward to new things and deviations.
Forgetting the story for a sec, is this actually a good RPG?
Decent quests, missions, bosses, character customisation, plenty to do, a decent length etc?
Decent quests, missions, bosses, character customisation, plenty to do, a decent length etc?
I know you and others have managed to brainwash yourselves into thinking the writers have essentially burned down your childhood home with a freak accidental grease fire and have throughout the years written themselves two steps away from the unemployment office, however their successes with Final Fantasy have been numerous with their recent games. They know what they're doing. Shocking, I know. This isn't them somehow fumbling in the dark with no coherent intent or knowledge of what they did back in 1997.
Things change and grow. They're aware of what they did and as bizarre as it may appear, they haven't undid VII. They've reinterpreted via keeping the same core plot point while injecting something new and yes, wild.
But if you think about how and why they did it, it literally is the most effective way possible in creating uncertainty and freshness with a plot everyone and their mother knows about.
Yes, let everyone believe Aerith will somehow live because Sephiroth has opened up the potential of alternate futures thanks to conjuring Whispers from a twisted future where he succeeded. Because it's not as if Final Fantasy ran with the concept of spirit energy transcending time and space, nope. Run that theme parallel to the original storyline and let those naive enough to believe Aerith will be saved so when she ends up dead, the expectation and hope created gets dashed to pieces.
It's so funny cause it's so openly and obviously telegraphed but 1/3rd of fans will take the bait. 1/3rd will assume they're stupid and rezz her. And 1/3rd will have faith. So we'll find out.
Everyone who cried about how the writers would shy away from the moments in the OG that would be crazy to redo now or whatever ate it when shit like the Turks still deadass dropped the plate, crossdressing still happened, and Aerith still kept her sass. They're not dumb. But everyone can keep shitting on Kingdom Hearts and believing they have zero clue what they do. Lol whatevs I'm just here enjoying the ride.
How they sold the game seemed to be different than what Nomura's intentions were all along: to subvert and commentate on the idea of a remake in his own uniquely heavy handed way.
I don't blame anyone who's angry or feels deceived. I was disappointed by KH3 and FFXV so I was waiting for the catch on this one myself and find myself oddly kinda interested in seeing where it goes? Like, I'm pleasantly surprised at this. I was expecting just a flaccid version of a story I already know.
For years so many people have been calling FFVII overrated, talking about how much better FFVI is, and even some outright saying VII doesn't even have a good story.
Juxitpose that with scores of people who are going to absolutely lose their shit over this new direction to the story. And I'm not saying all the people who are mad are gonna be the same people who didn't like VII's story, but we're going to see in the coming weeks just how near and dear to people's hearts the story of VII is. It's gonna be a wild ride.
Juxitpose that with scores of people who are going to absolutely lose their shit over this new direction to the story. And I'm not saying all the people who are mad are gonna be the same people who didn't like VII's story, but we're going to see in the coming weeks just how near and dear to people's hearts the story of VII is. It's gonna be a wild ride.
If the WoF have been brought from another timeline or something by Sephiroth to change his 'fate', wouldn't it have to be from another timeline that's not the OG? Because so far they've been trying to make sure things stay the same as the OG and Sephiroth loses in that timeline so??? I'm so confused lol
Holy hell, I just realized the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is still VERY active with this addition.
I personally don't mind the story changes, but what I do mind is tying them to this multiverse idea that Nomura can't seem to let go of. He's done it to KH, and Square was trying to do with with FFXV before they cancelled the DLC. Why not just make it an experience where:
A) You don't save Aerith, Zack stays dead, game proceeds like the original.
B) You save Aerith, somehow Zack doesn't die, the game takes a new shift.
Yes, its a TON of work, but it would massively increase replayability and also allow people to see what would have happened if Aerith lived and consequences of that. What I don't get is why this game is essentially a sequel to the original. They are basically saying that by letting Aerith die, they all die anyway (which is what a lot of people assumed at the end of the original, its a weird ass ending) and THIS TIME you have to change it.
Edit: And listen, there is still the potential for all of this to be a "ruse" in a way. To THINK we are able to change the future but can't and the game still proceeds as the original.
Can you elaborate?
I'm not interested in uncertainty or freshness. Give me that in FFXVI. If you're going to REMAKE a game, then take its original story seriously and don't fuck around with it. Don't have Sephiroth start doing Advent Children shit before the party should have even MET him. Don't start teasing WELL MAAAAAAYBE THINGS MIGHT GO DIFFERENTLY THIS TIME, TEE HEE~.
Just tell the original story. It's not hard. You already have the script. Just do that. If you want to make a new game, make a new game.
It would be cool if Nomura and Toriyama weren't directly invovlved, they haven't made anything as good as the original FF's in years, not to mention ever since Sakaguchi left, a lot of things just felt wrong. It feels like all the bad ideas that were left on the cutting room table during FF7 development were inserted into the Remake as the new plot.
Exactly. Those Whispers clearly don't come from the OG or anything cause Sephiroth loses there. It's something entirely new and unseen. It perfectly explains why the Whispers seemingly look the way they do too.
Speaking of meta spoilers, how long do we have to keep the secret of this not actually being a remake a secret? I mean, in regards to future parts, I don't mean spoiling people who are getting this game on launch day. Do we have to make a disclaimer in threads and inform people that FFVII Remake Party Dos is not actually a remake of FFVII? We've already had collective arguing over the lack of the game not having a number next to it, to infer it was a part in a larger series of games, and now we have to deal with the fact the term "Remake" is not actually what most think it means...
By the sound of it by the final game the last boss wont be Sephiroth, but literally a battle against God himself for control of the multiverse.
Persona/SMT style.
Persona/SMT style.
Just as long as any other endgame twist. It isn't all that deep at all.
I will say that concerns about FF7R weaving in dumb shit from the Compilation seem awfully quaint now.
thats an odd sentiment when SE made an absolutely incredible world map in a game just 2 years ago
We really do need a 3rd word:
Remaster: Taking the original and making it look better (retexturing, etc) but keeping everything the same. Perhaps improving controls too.
Revamp: Taking the original and improving upon it, ADDING to it. New and IMPROVED.
Remake: Taking the original and make it again or DIFFERENT.
We do have a Remake here, definitely. Its better in many ways (bigger Midgard, more story, more character interactions), but it alters the gameplay entirely and is seemingly altering the story. They are subjective to the player. A Revamp would be the Spyro or Crash trilogy. They are almost 1:1 Revamp's of the originals and improve upon everything (save for using Crash 3 physics for Crash 1's remake and it making the game much harder)
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