Every year publishers and developers release new games where you shoot people in the face...

[Fredrik]

Yup, gaming is weirdly pubertal when you think about it, it's either hot girls in bikinis everywhere or someone getting their head blown off, or it's about trying to replicate some war.

I do like swords and bows though, as long as the games aren't overly gruesome, but it's still about killing so it's still weird I guess.

But if I have a choice I definitely choose games where you kill aliens over humans any day. And even though zombies are just humans with a sickness I still prefer that over normal humans.

Games with humans and realistic depictions of violence and pain and suffering can go to hell.

 

[Finaika]

Because men are animals.

 

[Javier23]

This is me, OP, but I feel like being in the close vicinity of an assault rifle being shot for the first time would probably just make me question the need for all the war guns like that lying around in my country.

I had a similar experience to yours watching Heat for the first time. I'm not American but rather than find the heist scene cool it just made me somewhat upset, seeing such a realistic depiction of the very possible scenario in the US of anyone turning the very center of any large city into a war zone in mere seconds. Seems very unnecesary.

Coming from a country where we never felt the need to make assault rifles rain, I have never found most shooters particularly troubling as I can't relate at all.

 

[HMD]

Or in Disney movies where the good guys literally blow people up instantly killing them and laugh about it like it's some funny video game.

 

[Mekanos]

Yup, gaming is weirdly pubertal when you think about it, it's either hot girls in bikinis everywhere or someone getting their head blown off, or it's about trying to replicate some war.

I do like swords and bows though, as long as the games aren't overly gruesome, but it's still about killing so it's still weird I guess.

But if I have a choice I definitely choose games where you kill aliens over humans any day. And even though zombies are just humans with a sickness I still prefer that over normal humans.

Games with humans and realistic depictions of violence and pain and suffering can go to hell.

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This is probably too many galaxy brain levels but I feel like games about killing aliens present a similar problem where we successfully dehumanize our targets and consider it okay to slaughter life forms when we don't consider them human.

I say this as someone who's killed their fair share of aliens... mostly in Metroid games.

 

[Saray]

This always surprise me. How the most brutal and gruesome violence is accepted by almost everyone but if for example you see a pussy like in Watch Dogs 2 everyone loses their shit. Talking about +18 games or course.

 

[boi]

The difference is games do not harm anyone. As long as it is all fiction and not meaningless in the context of the setting - I am totally fine with it.

 

[Zhukov]

Of course they do.

And every year people keep buying them. So they keep selling.

Violence sells. Always has. Probably always will.

(EDIT: Just to be clear, not a condemnation. I like me some video game violence too. Gimme that TLOU2.)

(EDIT #2: Have handled, fired and trained in multiple military grade weapons. Don't see any real connection between that and video game shooting beyond the imagery. And I don't personally like modern warfare themed games.)

 

[Crayon]

Is it more fun to have a game with real guns and realistic violence then say a cartoony shooter without guns like Splatoon?

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I like shooting things with guns but i'd prefer to be shooting aliens or robots or something.

 

[Matthew]

I mean, on one hand, I understand why I myself have fun playing these games. It's not some kind of forbidden fantasy fulfillment - instead, it's just a really flashy combination of two of humanity's greatest games: hide & seek, and tag.

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that's a great way of putting it and makes a lot of sense.

 

[Imitatio]

It is pretty messed up. Id rather have games where I romance anime waifus.

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Name checks out.

Personally don't play shooters like ... at all, and the aspects you state in your OP are reasons why.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

This is a problem with America in general, not just games.

Violence is really glorified in our culture and media.

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It's not, games produced in all cultures have shooting and violence. America has problems with gun violence for political reasons.

 

[astro]

FPS are my favourite games. The rhythm and flow of a good game in this genre is unmatched for me.

I don't really care about what the targets are, make a lazer tag game that feels great and I'm in.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Rejoice in death stranding every weapon you se are non lethal against not only humans but also monsters (BTs) too: https://imgur.com/a/jwnXidQ
And yet some didn't like the game because of that.

 

[regenhuber]

I feel the same way.

I mean, on one hand, I understand why I myself have fun playing these games. It's not some kind of forbidden fantasy fulfillment - instead, it's just a really flashy combination of two of humanity's greatest games: hide & seek, and tag.

I do think we need to invest a little creative energy into developing (and supporting) games that conserve this thrill and fun without using tools of war and death.

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Good post.
IMO things are headed in a pretty good direction on that front.
The success of the cartoony Fortnite over the more realistic PUBG tells me that kids these day aren't (only) looking for bloody headshots anymore.
Back in my days it was all Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem, later Counterstrike, CoD and BF ruled.

Had someone showed us 90s kids a clip of Fortnite, we wouldn't have been interested.

 

[Kaim Argonar]

I'm in the opposite side of the spectrum with the OP. Like, I want shooters to be more realistic and gruesome than they already are. I'd love if NPCs had everything realistic down to the bones, veins and organs so you could see them damaged after you fucked a npc up.

And I'd love a game where you're a straight human monster doing heinous stuff. Like those games where you're the villain but in a realistic environment.

Meanwhile in real life I don't want to be anywhere near videos of that shit that makes the rounds through messaging apps and the such.

 

[elenarie]

It is pretty messed up. Id rather have games where I romance anime waifus.

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Why not both dot gif.

 

[Dphex]

because shooty bang still sells the most, it is as easy as that

 

[Deleted member 8593]

This is probably too many galaxy brain levels but I feel like games about killing aliens present a similar problem where we successfully dehumanize our targets and consider it okay to slaughter life forms when we don't consider them human.

I say this as someone who's killed their fair share of aliens... mostly in Metroid games.

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Nah I definitely feel this as well. My favourite example are games that have you kill Nazis. It's incredibly cathartic to murder Nazis in games like Wolfenstein because the game tells you that you're actually doing a good thing and dehumanize your enemies as much as possible. And as I said in the OP, this becomes a problem when similar tactics are used to make you shoot "terrorists" from poor countries.

Rejoice in death stranding every weapon you se are non lethal against not only humans but monsters (BTs) too: https://imgur.com/a/jwnXidQ
And yet some didn't liek the game because of that.

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That's actually pretty interesting. This being a Kojima game, I thought it would be guns galore again. Kinda wonder how the market will react to this.

 

[TsuWave]

Tired of "stick" games? Kojima is giving us a "rope" game

 

[Dewin]

Its because usually it does the most damage. If developers started to make the left pinky toe the area that does the most damage, i'd be shooting that. Its not our fault, its the devs. They force us!

/s

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

that's not a satisfactory explanation

there are many things that aren't "real life" which aren't nearly as enjoyable as shooting some pixeldude in the face

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A lot of effort and budget goes into developing the best feeling of shooting people in the face.

IMPACT.

Similar feelings include slamming your desk and yelling "Object!" Or someone yelling "SMOKING SEXY STYLE" with bright gold words flashing.

 

[Famassu]

It is pretty messed up. Id rather have games where I romance anime waifus.

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Wide-spread objectifying & overt sexualization (& other kind of gross treatment) of women has far more far-reatching consequences in society than violent video games do. Violence in real life is extremely frowned upon by a big portion of humanity and illegal in all but the most extreme cases (in most places). Most people understand mindless real-life violence is wrong. They understand the pain that violence causes so they don't generally resort to it or put themselves at the risk of being hurt by violence unless they feel they really have to (or have anger management issues).

Violent video games are simply so far removed from real life that playing violent video games doesn't really mirror real life in any way. Sexists, objectifying attitudes towards women are a much bigger daily issue, when men learn those kinds of attitudes from everywhere in society. It's in tv shows, movies, lyrics in music, games, porn. Men grow up learning that women are there for them to take or to please men first & foremost. This kind of attitude is pervasive in society in everyday life.

 

[Almagest]

Sex and violence are two of the strongest human pulsions, they're ingrained into us because they are of capital importance for the survival of both the individual and the species.

It's no wonder two of the most successful, if not the two most successful industries right now (porn and video games) capitalize heavily in each of them.

 

[JusDoIt]

People are going to drag you, because in the US the rise in popularity of violent video games has come with a fall in violent crime overall, and other wealthy nations where violent games are popular don't have the problem with gun violence that the US does.

Gun policy is obviously the main factor.

That said, I think it's dishonest to act like games have zero effect. Most people who play video games never do anything violent, but we can't ignore that so many of the people going out committing mass murder tend to be young dudes who play lots of video games. Violent crimes overall have dropped with the rise of video games, but it sure seems like acts of mass murder have risen alongside video games.

It could just be correlation, but there seems to be something there.

 

[Linus815]

this thread is starting to sound like the kind of things conservatives said like 20 years ago lol

 

[Sailent]

that's not a satisfactory explanation

there are many things that aren't "real life" which aren't nearly as enjoyable as shooting some pixeldude in the face

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I enjoy fishing minigames on my mmos, yet I'm a vegan in real life.

Go figure.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

That's actually pretty interesting. This being a Kojima game, I thought it would be guns galore again. Kinda wonder how the market will react to this.

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Actually even the enemies don't kill you which is even stranger.

 

[Love Machine]

...and I'm starting to think that it's kinda fucked up?

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It is pretty fucked up.

I greatly dislike everything to do with firearms in real life, and I live in a country with annual single-digit gun deaths.
But recently I've had a strange craving for "tacti-cool" "mil-sim" type games that feature modern, real-world guns and police/military situations.

Gunplay in the new Modern Warfare alpha felt good. Scarily good.
I enjoy the "'murica fuck yeah" audacity of GR Wildlands (ironically of course, but still).
It's extremely satisfying to improve game sense and execute plays successfully in R6 Siege.

However, I generally play a wide range of games and I like to think that variety and moderation play a big part in how healthily it's perceived.
Siege in particular I find fascinating, because while its presentation (opening cinematic, briefing cutscenes, etc.) is very sensationalist, and operator personalities/abilities mainly glorify the destruction of other human beings, the enemy is never painted as a particular country/organisation/group.
It's simply a matter of Attack vs. Defence.

What also helps is that the satisfaction comes not only from besting your opponents in a gun fight, but from fulfilling the fantasy of your character and your role.
You could boil it down to "Overwatch but everyone's wearing riot gear".

Maybe I'm just using all this as an excuse to justify a digital violence fetish, but I think it's important to think about why you enjoy something, and to consider the themes and implications of what you're enjoying, without blindly consuming it because HEADSHOT.

 

[Fritz]

Really do not like it at all and always felt its extremely unnecessary and juvenile at best. Also smh at the "its human nature" argument. Its a male adolescent power fetish of the most primitive kind. compassion is a human trait first and foremost.
Gotta love nintendo for not having that bs and taking so much flack for it.

 

[EarthPainting]

While I'm not super into shooty games in general, the thing that made it weird for me, was realising that guns have brands and those brands often get officially licensed for use in video games, movies, books, etc. EA claimed that the licencing is optional, and you can still keep using the brands without it, but it's a courtesy thing for big publishers. The arms industry won't sue 'em either way, since games advertise their brands.

Learning about that relationship made me uncomfortable, these games are supporting the arms industry in more direct ways than I realised. I've been avoiding to buy games that use real gun brands since, but it's not exactly easy to get this kind of information.

 

[zelig]

I do mostly agree with OP and I never found it okay to scream 'false equivalence!!1' when violence and sexual content are being compared in the recurring censorship debates. It always comes off as a cheap attempt at handwaving away such comparisons, because these people know: If it's not a false equivalence, you have to fight against fictional violence the same way you already are fighting against fictional sexual content, and that's a fight you can't win.

That's not to say that I'm in favor of censoring fictional violence, the opposite. But there absolutely is a lack of self-reflection within the gaming community (and most noticeable in a progressive one like Resetera) about violence in video games. It is gross how normalized even the most gruesome sh*t is, and we're not talking about niche titles, but hyped mostwanted-games like The Last of Us 2.

I don't think forbidding certain content is the right way to go about it, but I do think that games out to change how they depict violence at large, exceptions like Doom withstanding. So instead of murdering a dozen people in each area in Uncharted, how about having 1-2 enemies in an area AND you can sneak by (preferred solution), plus killing those 2 enemies is made much harder. Just make the player think "is it really the best approach to KILL?"

While I think it's rather overhyped, one thing Astral Chain did really well was to offer lots of non-violent tasks. Observation, finding stuff, picking up garbage, catching (not killing!) criminals, etc.. it felt good to be the hero without murdering other people.

 

[TP-DK]

I mean if its shooting a bag guy. If someone gets amped up sniping civilians in gta, I would side eye it.

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Everyone gets amped up doing that.

 

[Edgar]

humans are violent creatures. Violence is a taboo in a real world and you dont get power fantasies irl, thats why its so cathartic to do in video games or watch it in media. Conflict is part of human nature and best way to portray conflict in media ,video games especially is through combat and violence . Thats just how it is and always been.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

i have to say i agree. actually that's a big reason i don't play a lot of games, i never feel comfortable playing realistic looking games where you kill actual humans. that just doesn't sit well with me. i'm fine with cartoony games or when you're killing demons or whatever in something like doom, but shooting and killing tens or hundreds of actual humans in a video game isn't something i'm interested in.
BUT
having said that, i don't believe playing those kind of games causes people to be violent in real life.

 

[Gloam]

Every year developers and publishers release games where you climb mountains, race cars, kick footballs, manage a farm, drive a truck, dance, sing, learn to play the guitar.

I do think that as graphics get better and better the feeling of shooting people will be worse and worse. Like, I don't want to see a photo realistic entry and exit wound.

What I'd say, and it might seem trite, but if this kind of game bothers you seek out other experiences. Video games are a lot more than shooting people after all.

 

[Green Yoshi]

 

[ParmeSean]

Doesn't this guy have a very shootable face tho?

 

[Fudgepuppy]

It's just the easiest way to convey conflict with gameplay. It's a lot harder to make fun and engaging game where you debate everyone.

 

[Decarb]

Its been a while since I've played a game where you shoot normal humans in the face. Its usually aliens/zombies/demons.

 

[Hours Left]

I generally don't like any type of artistic media with extremely gratuitous violence, and I do find it odd how lauded it is in general within the gaming community.

I understand games can be used as a safe way to explore various narratives that are obviously unacceptable in reality, and as long as they're not advocating violence and hatred towards real people, that's all fine, but I think it can be pushed too far. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, or that it should be immune from criticism.

 

[zelig]

It's just the easiest way to convey conflict with gameplay. It's a lot harder to make fun and engaging game where you debate everyone.

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Is it?
In terms of programming/graphics, the former requires much more ressources. The latter requires ... good writing. Yeah, that's a problem, ofc, when it comes to video games. ;i

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Is it?
In terms of programming/graphics, the former requires much more ressources. The latter requires ... good writing. Yeah, that's a problem, ofc, when it comes to video games. ;i

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How engaging can you make dialogues though from a pure gameplay perspective? There's not that much game to it. You also need everything to be unique when it comes to the characters and stories. In a shooting game, you can copy and paste the environments and enemies as long as the base gameplay is fun. You can't really do the same thing with dialogue driven gameplay.

There are tons of games out there that has the conflict in the game stem from other things than killing, but there will always be a market for people who want destructive and explosive conflict.

It's just fun.

 

[Robin64]

It annoys me a little when a company says they have a new IP to announce and show off, and it turns out to be yet another shoot things with guns game with a very minor twist on what's come before.

 

[Shudouken]

Humans like to enjoy the thrill of danger, fear, or violence, but from a safe distance.
Same reason splatter movies are popular.

 

[thomasmahler]

I had the same thought during Ubisofts last E3 Press Conference. Pretty much every single title was advertised with an almost nutty obsession for machine guns. Feel free to re-watch that conference and count how many games are all about shooting guns and how long it takes for Ubi to bring out the gun porn.

I don't mind first person shooters, but I do mind the lack of creativity. If I'd design a first person shooter, it'd be wildly different than what's currently out there. These Ubi Tom Clancy games don't even look all that different from one another, it's all the same "I'm a hunky dude with a rifle and I'm gonna shoot shit up, for my country and my brothers at war" horseshit, but to each their own.

 

[Sankara]

add to the fact that most of the time you're playing a white dude shooting brown or black people in the face and it's much more concerning and off-putting.

Especially after 9/11 and the games industry changed from WWII to middle eastern countries.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I will say that I still enjoy a good shooting game but I really am having to try way harder than ever before to not feel bad about some of them, especially the ones that seem intent on keeping elements grounded, like featuring modern real world guns or trying to work the storytelling within a modern situation that plays into current world fears and the only interactive way to respond is with heavy gun violence.

I can unquestionably pump ballistics into hell demons, edge-of-space psychos, or exosuit future mercs without a moral quandary arising, but the moment I'm packing any gun that might be used by a real person today with context relatable to real people living today, I really do need to take pause or just pass on it all together. Getting harder and harder for me to have fun on the back of that.

 

[品川駅]

It is pretty messed up. Id rather have games where I romance anime waifus.

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You and me WeeBro.

You and me.

 

[SuperSah]

I haven't played a FPS for like half a decade...