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Dave Chappelle announces he's a TERF
- Thread starter Firmus_Anguis
- Start date
No worries! I never mind constructive criticism of my word choices.
Honestly I find that part of his statement absolutely infuriating. It's saying the issue isn't actually transphobia, no, it's people just can't handle stand-up comedy. The mood at Netflix right now if you're not bigoted must be absolutely dire. What a terrible statement.
I do not find myself agreeing with the majority of this forum on this. However, I need a bit of time to gather my thoughts and communicate properly the whys. For clarity, I watched the show a couple nights ago.
Do you honestly not have a problem with the transphobia?
If you don't want to engage with the thread, I'm not sure why you set up a "teaser" announcement for your thoughts. I don't think anyone was actually waiting for you to chime in, but since you're eager to let people know you disagree, maybe you can at least explain why? How much lead time do you need to explain your own opinion?
It's nice of them to give the mods a heads-up that a horrible take is incoming. Gives them time to prepare the ban message.
Anyone who seeks to find meaning in, or defend, what Dave did here is either a blatant transphobe themselves, or ridiculously gullible.
It takes a long time to try to launder Chapelle's transphobic bigotry through enough meely-mouthed bullshit platitudes about "the spirit of stand-up comedy" in order to make the poster feel like his fatally flawed premise might avoid the ban for justifying transphobia that he's inevitably going to eat.
Ready for the justification for "I'm Team TERF" and "I'm misgendering my dead trans supposed friend and conveniently placing them on my side"
I'm ready for you justifying transphobia to watch a comedian you like, alright.
I watched it last night. Dave Chapelle was one of my all time favorite comedians and man is it rough seeing how awful he is at it now. There are very few lines you could construe as a joke and the whole back half is Dave, a bigot trying to justify his bigotry because he has a friend. It was really tough to get through. At one point he tries to make you feel bad about Kevin Hart not getting to host the Oscars like my dude who do you think gives a fuck about you and your shitty rich friends?
Can't wait to see you try to justify transphobia, really can't.
You don't need to have an opinion on everything, especially (correct me if I'm wrong) stuff that affects marginalized groups you aren't a part of.
I've yet to meet a liberal, left-leaning person IRL that either holds some or all of what we consider to be TERF stances/views. That's obviously not even counting the right leaning folks in my orbit, who don't even view trans folks as people of merit/value anyway.
This just makes me sad. I'm a whitelesbian, so I understand racial minorities shitting on parts of the LGBTQ+ space because at the end of the day, the community still has problems with racism and that's simply not debatable.
But going after the lowest hanging fruit? I knew he had already been saying homophobic shit, but does he not know that there are black gay guys? black trans folks? that black trans women are on the shitter everyday because of the kind of shit he says? Did you also have the need to punch down on women who can't have kids (for whatever reason)? What the fuck?
Genuinely at this point I gotta ask, what have queer and/or trans people done to these people? Yesterday on a transfriendly subreddit there was a gal anxious about whether she was really feeling dysphoria or not and super confused and it was heartbreaking to talk to her. What exactly has ppl like her done to him exactly?
Reading some of the responses in this thread hurts a lot :/ Why is it so hard to learn to treat minorities with respect (maybe being uncomfortable in the process)?
But going after the lowest hanging fruit? I knew he had already been saying homophobic shit, but does he not know that there are black gay guys? black trans folks? that black trans women are on the shitter everyday because of the kind of shit he says? Did you also have the need to punch down on women who can't have kids (for whatever reason)? What the fuck?
Genuinely at this point I gotta ask, what have queer and/or trans people done to these people? Yesterday on a transfriendly subreddit there was a gal anxious about whether she was really feeling dysphoria or not and super confused and it was heartbreaking to talk to her. What exactly has ppl like her done to him exactly?
Reading some of the responses in this thread hurts a lot :/ Why is it so hard to learn to treat minorities with respect (maybe being uncomfortable in the process)?
There is no proper "why" because being a TERF (or supporting them) is 100% unacceptable.
It should not be hard to display kindness and solidarity towards other human beings, especially those who are marginalized, but if you'd like to take time to think of a few vague paragraphs as to "why" you aren't educated on the subject, have at it.
Just watched a clip posted on Twitter and he compared being trans with doing blackface!!!!???????????????? Yeah I don't know how can anyone defend this guy but i'm seeing a lot of people saying the same "you are just proving his point" whenever someone call him out. What are this people referring to? I have no intention to watch the special to find out.
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing transphobia and inflammatory false equivalences over a series of posts. Prior severe infractions.
Is it okay to discuss openly one's conflict about this? Or is the point that I am either "with" everyone or "against" them? Can a person be conflicted about what a comedian is actually trying to say or do they have to instantly know every person's thoughts and intents before they start to talk about that internal conflict?
I think understanding transphobia and its role in the world and how it relates to what Dave is focusing on as opposed to embroiling oneself in the emotional energy it causes when the spectator is exposed to his jokes is important. I can understand the emotion and energy his stand up causes on this topic, and still reject that Dave's intent is what the majority of people say it is. Doesn't a person's statements and actions define intent? Or is it the community's interpretation of those statements and actions? I feel like, especially in historical context, it is way more the former than the latter.
Intent is notoriously difficult to assume or accept. A good recent example is Stephen Colbert IMO. If you look at Stephen Colbert's show after 2016 and the election of Trump, he basically remade his name in Trump's shadow. Trump caused him to become the #1 late night comedian. Do we assume that Colbert rode those coattails from the start, though? Was that his intent? Because recently, he won't even say Trump's name live on air. I would firmly argue that perhaps Colbert rode that awfulness, but that there was a grey point somewhere where he didn't consciously decide to utilize Trump to elevate himself. And from day 1 of Trump's election I was literally curled in a ball in bed over the fact he was elected because I knew what it meant (and what it still means) for the future of the United States and the world. And I was furious at any and all media for the way they had (in my opinion) brought it about. And anyone that benefitted from it turned into some kind of evil for me.
But at what point did Colbert turn from a lucky benefactor into an active benefactor into a regretful benefactor of what was happening? Did he have intent in it? Why did he stop saying Trump's name entirely finally? Should I burn him at the stake for not realizing sooner that his focus on Trump was elevating Trump and that he should stop?
And that grey area, to me, is also present in what Dave is doing. Why did he try to go so hard on the LGBT community in this special? Was it really to threaten them? I am fine with this community's conclusion that his actions in some way harms others - but not that it only harms others.
I think this forum has a very real problem with stating opinions as facts and trying to flame anyone that doesn't align. Please don't tell me that everything you and only you believe is the only truth in this world. That's as bad a take as any on a message board intended for discussion.
Where's the statement from Dave himself on what he was trying to do here? Where is your objective source of truth on the matter? And please don't respond with another opinion. And please don't tell me that EVERYTHING a comedian does can be taken at face value. Their whole purpose is to constantly do things that aren't face value.
This is literally as bad as aligning with the people from whom you are trying to protect in the LGBTQ community, a community of which I am a part (although I am not transgender, for clarity purposes). This is similar to book burning in fahrenheit 451. I am literally communicating a struggle / opinion and you are burning me at the stake for it. Since when did drive by moderation become an acceptable thing on this forum?
I am not trying to justify transphobia. I am trying to speak about the fact that Dave is quite literally addressing all the criticism of himself head on in this special. One can focus on the jokes and feel that emotional fire (I am not per se defending the jokes), or they can focus on his intent with the whole special. I do think the fact that basically his whole special focuses on the LGBTQ community is not a coincidence. I do actually think he is trying (even if one decides his execution is flawed) to say something a bit larger than the sum of the parts of his very targeted jokes. And I think this is where my disagreement with this community lies - to ignore that other part of this special and focus on the way he gets there exclusively, I think, is to miss a lot of important stuff that deserves conversation.
Comedy is actually a panacea for fear, historically speaking. I am not saying this special or the way he went about it is justified. But isn't there perhaps that silver lining? I can understand the community's fear that what Dave did drives certain communities toward more problems with self. Can the community understand my fear that silencing comedy would also increase the danger to those same communities?
You aren't entirely right or wrong. Though as I say above, I am not transgender but identify as a part of the LGBTQ community.
Everyone has an opinion on everything, btw. All you have to do is ask them about it. In this case, a couple non LGBT friends asked me to watch the special and see how I felt about it, so I did. And then I saw this thread and was surprised I didn't feel the same exact way or as strongly as everyone here does.
How is a post like this even allowed when people are calling for my ban for actually communicating my own conflict on the matter? Come on people. This is a message board. It is meant for the exchange of information and viewpoints. I am not an enemy, though I do recognize why my post, without communicating my opinion, was too brief originally. I've tried to rectify that above.
All of this isn't to say that I am perfectly educated on all of this, and understand the nuance of why the era community has reacted the way it has. Part of the reason I posted was to open the door to further understanding and perhaps change my own perspective.
Intent doesn't matter. Impact does.
Dave has had 5 specials and he's spouting the same harmful drivel he has been from the first one. Defense of this is transphobia and anti-LGBTQ.
His intent is quite clear.
Dave has had 5 specials and he's spouting the same harmful drivel he has been from the first one. Defense of this is transphobia and anti-LGBTQ.
His intent is quite clear.
I mean, like... why didn't you read your own statement, right here, and think " this means I should wait and listen to the trans people saying they're under attack instead of coming at them immediately with my conclusions"?
Before you get justifiably obliterated for this horrible take, I wanted to bring one thing up.
It is not ok that people get harmed so long as other things happened besides people getting harmed. PEOPLE STILL GET HARMED. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.
I regretfully agree. The damage is done and continues being done. Some people help push the cart and others sabotage it. He's mostly in the latter camp.
It reeks of entitlement to come in here and put the onus on trans people to change your perspective. And I say that as a person who is cis. You're not owed anything here. If you actually wanted to learn, you would sit back and listen rather that wagging your finger.
It is NOT against the rules of the forum to say "No one cares" to someone JAQing off and should be encouraged more (along with reporting but im not a part of the moderation team, not my place)
The madman he can't be stopped
Read the thread title.
Also, he is relishing on "being cancelled", in his own words. he is not trying to say something that we don't understand. he is being a shithead.
Transphobic attitudes statistically correlate to a disproportionate amount of trans peoples dying; either from suicide and/or constant neglect/abuse from the unsupportive environments they live in. What's there to think about??? 🤔
This is a lot of blather to skirt around Dave's own words and actions
Why is it every bigot has to toss in a minority friend that is supposed to be the avatar of how millions of people potentially feel about their bigotry?
Narrator: JustinBailey was conflicted about whether transphobia was okay.
it's just amazing that a dude comes into a thread where a community of people are saying "we're hurting" and his first interactions are "nah ya'll pain ain't shit I'm the one who's being burned like a witch in salem!!!!"
like wtf
who even are you
like wtf
who even are you
Then, as part of the LGBTQ community, you probably know how frustrating it is to have straight people dismiss your concerns or act like their opinions on queer issues are equally or more informed than your own. I, and other trans people, feel the same way about cis people talking about trans people.
Alright, nitpicker. You don't need to state your opinion on everything. You can just listen to trans people in this case.
At some point, you got to realize going "I won't say overtly bigotted things, but I will defend them with every ounce of my breath" just makes you a cowardly bigot.
three questions:
who is silencing comedy?
what is the larger message/intent/whatever that somehow justifies Dave's special?
why are you emphasizing those things and not the very negative impact the special has had in terms of hurting trans people and empowering the enemies of the trans community?
you're trying to talk through your conflict or whatever but stream of conscious defensiveness ain't it in this case
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So many words. So many words, just to excuse guilt for watching a narcissist hurl bigotry around during a stand-up show.
Imagine if someone wrote an essay this long to go to bat for Jeff Dunham. How would you feel reading it? Does Jeff Dunham's intent excuse the blatant, toxic racism that basically defined his act?
JustinBailey No one is trying to silence comedy. This isn't some slippery slope that'll lead to some quelling of comedians. This special will make bank.
There's plenty of comedians doing specials that don't seem to cause "cancel culture", and they're really funny. They're in no way hamstrung in how they do their job.
What you said is just nonsense. There's no greater meaning in all of this. It's a comedian being really shitty towards a marginalized group. And it's not like this have been a one-off thing for him. But go ahead keep living in your fantasy.
There's plenty of comedians doing specials that don't seem to cause "cancel culture", and they're really funny. They're in no way hamstrung in how they do their job.
What you said is just nonsense. There's no greater meaning in all of this. It's a comedian being really shitty towards a marginalized group. And it's not like this have been a one-off thing for him. But go ahead keep living in your fantasy.
You could be playing Dread right now instead of whatever this is.
Same for me. I've managed to nail the reaction of literally everyone I've come out to and not a one surprised me. I mean I was mostly relieved when it came to my immediate family, since a surprise there would have been awful, but there's been no TERF shit and the right wingers (who are just extended family I've cut out of my life) are the more typical transphobes who don't bother to put on a facade of feminism. At least in the Northeast USA it seems to be an extreme minority of people that would ascribe to those viewpoints.