Rikalaus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
830
Can anyone recommend good lower back and hip stretches/mobility exercises? And/or good sources for looking this stuff up? I find myself Googling and searching YouTube but I don't know who to trust.

I'm fairly active - lift & bike 4 times/week on top of a job where I'm mostly on my feet, and I've found if anything the more I've worked out the tighter these areas have felt. It's gotten to me the point where on worse days bending over just to tie my shoes and such is a bit challenging. I do already stretch every day, but I'm clearly not hitting these areas properly.

This might be useful for your hip mobility

youtu.be

5 Minute Hip Mobility Routine (THIS WORKS!)

Here's a step-by-step routine to improve hip mobility that takes 5 minutes!Get my book on fixing injury here: https://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Milo-Foundati...
 

Keyouta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,215
Canada
Think I'm going to really try and give 5/3/1 a go again. I've been working out pretty consistently, but my strength has waned since last May. I'm also a new dad since last April, so I've got a good excuse.

My goal was a 500 lb deadlift by this March and I did 485 last year, but no dice. Time to work at it again.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Ah, looks great but unfortunately I don't have resistance bands
Bands are a great investment. Good for rehab when you need, and you can do a good amount of upper body work with them too. Easy to travel with also. I'm not saying it's a replacement for free weights or machines though, and certainly not for lower body. And they're cheap. Bodylastics bands or Sunpower loop bands were the best options when I went looking, so that's $50-$75.

Re hip mobility, there's a vid below. If you think you have a specific issue, I usually start with Bob & Brad on YT, then when looking elsewhere I'll look for commonalities between multiple sources.

I think you'll get benefit from the yoga cobra pose, and bird dog. Also planks. Do these most days.

Look into your seat quality if you sit a lot, and get up to walk around more often.

You mentioned you lift, does this include anything for hip hinges and spinal erectors? I would suggest the RDL. Start light ofc. Do movements like this and cobra slowly, and if you have any acute pain stop immediately. While it's important to work on the core, be careful, many abs focused moves can put a lot of stress on the lower back. Another good one is reverse hypers, which you can do on a firm bed or table, lay upper body on surface and raise legs from floor to parallel.

If you're doing squats, check your form to make sure no butt wink. If you're doing heavy deadlift, you don't need to heavy deadlift.

I recall someone telling me they swear by this routine. YMMV.

www.youtube.com

Hip Mobility to Fix Lower Back Pain

Shot/Edited: https://instagram.com/taylorstephensShop Wildman Athletica: https://bit.ly/WildmanMERCHMusic I use: http://share.epidemicsound.com/tqBPPFollow m...
 
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pioneer

Member
May 31, 2022
4,261
Bands are a great investment. Good for rehab when you need, and you can do a good amount of upper body work with them too. Easy to travel with also. I'm not saying it's a replacement for free weights or machines though, and certainly not for lower body. And they're cheap. Bodylastics bands or Sunpower loop bands were the best options when I went looking, so that's $50-$75.

Re hip mobility, there's a vid below. If you think you have a specific issue, I usually start with Bob & Brad on YT, then when looking elsewhere I'll look for commonalities between multiple sources.

I think you'll get benefit from the yoga cobra pose, and bird dog. Also planks. Do these most days.

Look into your seat quality if you sit a lot, and get up to walk around more often.

You mentioned you lift, does this include anything for hip hinges and spinal erectors? I would suggest the RDL. Start light ofc. Do movements like this and cobra slowly, and if you have any acute pain stop immediately. While it's important to work on the core, be careful, many abs focused moves can put a lot of stress on the lower back. Another good one is reverse hypers, which you can do on a firm bed or table, lay upper body on surface and raise legs from floor to parallel.

If you're doing squats, check your form to make sure no butt wink. If you're doing heavy deadlift, you don't need to heavy deadlift.

I recall someone telling me they swear by this routine. YMMV.

www.youtube.com

Hip Mobility to Fix Lower Back Pain

Shot/Edited: https://instagram.com/taylorstephensShop Wildman Athletica: https://bit.ly/WildmanMERCHMusic I use: http://share.epidemicsound.com/tqBPPFollow m...

Thanks for the reply! Gonna work with this video
 

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,664
I am 3 months in now to doing regular strength training and more defined diet (cut the shit, lots of protein, veg, fruit, almost zero alcohol, protein bars, whey supplement) and I am definitely starting to see results. Arms and shoulders, upper back starting to look leaner and some muscle tone which is awesome.

My main challenge now is the big hurdle for most men; burning the fat on upper chest and belly as it's super stubborn. But its definitely reduced down a fair amount with clothes feeling better, noticing it when running hands over yourself, wife noticed it etc :) It feels really good and is massively encouraging to keep going. I can't wait to see what progress I've made by Nov/Dec time this winter.

I've also, for now, stopped weighing myself so often. I was finding that although I was losing fat, I was clearly gaining some amounts of muscle, so sometimes the weight would stay the same, or even go up, and of course this happens with water weight and other influences too. Apps like MyFitnessPal don't take into account these factors, just the number on the scales. I still don't know if I've got my calorie intake right, I guess this will take a while and as you progress it becomes a moving target.

I am nearly 46yo so these things will definitely take longer than someone in their 20s, but I am loving the journey so far.

Hope everyone else's progress is going well for them too!
 
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Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Apps like MyFitnessPal don't take into account these factors, just the number on the scales.
Congrats on your journey, sounds like it's going well. That part above though isn't accurate. MFP is a tool to track your calories. You can use it to lose weight, recomp/maingain, or gain weight. The user chooses their desired goals and macros. You can track progress there by entering your weight, and also your waist and hip measurements if you want to. Ultimately, if you're doing a recomp/maingain, it's up to you to track your own progress with the lifting, and track your fat loss with measurements, pictures or other means, which again some of which can be entered into MFP. In the MFP forums, there are plenty of people talking about recomp, and some talking about body building and weight gain.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,102
Feeling a bit of discomfort in my forearm recently. Somehow mostly when doing bicep curls and similar bicep movements, and it kinda feels like shin split, as if I'm about to snap my forearm in half. Not super painful, but a bit worrying. Anyone know whats up, and what it could be?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Feeling a bit of discomfort in my forearm recently. Somehow mostly when doing bicep curls and similar bicep movements, and it kinda feels like shin split, as if I'm about to snap my forearm in half. Not super painful, but a bit worrying. Anyone know whats up, and what it could be?
How are you doing bicep curls? Barbell, EZ, db? If barbell, the wrist flexion needed may be an issue, especially if you're gripping really hard. I would never do barbell curl, the angle doesn't work for my wrists. How many reps with strict form, or in other words, are you lifting too heavy? If you are, go lighter with more reps. You should also do specific forearm work several times a week, e.g. with a light weight and lower arm flat on the bench, use your wrist to raise and lower a light db, pronated then supinated, or pronated to supinated. Dead hangs are good too, also good for grip strength. And while doing this, find a biceps movement that doesn't cause a flare-up. Maybe spider curls?
 
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KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,664
Congrats on your journey, sounds like it's going well. That part above though isn't accurate. MFP is a tool to track your calories. You can use it to lose weight, recomp/maingain, or gain weight. The user chooses their desired goals and macros. You can track progress there by entering your weight, and also your waist and hip measurements if you want to. Ultimately, if you're doing a recomp/maingain, it's up to you to track your own progress with the lifting, and track your fat loss with measurements, pictures or other means, which again some of which can be entered into MFP. In the MFP forums, there are plenty of people talking about recomp, and some talking about body building and weight gain.

Thanks, I didn't know you could enter details like waist and hip measurements, just weight goals and obviously your meals etc.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,102
How are you doing bicep curls? Barbell, EZ, db? If barbell, the wrist flexion needed may be an issue, especially if you're gripping really hard. I would never do barbell curl, the angle doesn't work for my wrists. How many reps with strict form, or in other words, are you lifting too heavy? If you are, go lighter with more reps. You should also do specific forearm work several times a week, e.g. with a light weight and lower arm flat on the bench, use your wrist to raise and lower a light db, pronated then supinated, or pronated to supinated. Dead hangs are good too, also good for grip strength. And while doing this, find a biceps movement that doesn't cause a flare-up. Maybe spider curls?
I only do dumbbells and a whole range of different variations. I've definitely been upping the weight, and I think I usually manage around 8-10 in, I think, good form. Funnily enough it actually really started to flare up for the first time last week when I wasn't really feeling it and dropped the weight and do more reps. Maybe messing up the form a bit as I was already slacking off?

Anyway, good shout on the forearm work. I have not been doing that.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
I only do dumbbells and a whole range of different variations. I've definitely been upping the weight, and I think I usually manage around 8-10 in, I think, good form. Funnily enough it actually really started to flare up for the first time last week when I wasn't really feeling it and dropped the weight and do more reps. Maybe messing up the form a bit as I was already slacking off?

Anyway, good shout on the forearm work. I have not been doing that.
Yeah, bottom line is your forearm is probably working too hard, and you mentioned you've been upping the weight, so some combo of wrist flexion, too much grip, too heavy weight (e.g. are those 8-10 reps with good form or with body swings to help), and probably no direct forearm work. Giving the tendons a rest with the suggestions I gave, and doing some forearm specific work, will hopefully have you feeling better in a couple of weeks. Then you can ditch the forearm rehab like we all do unless it happens again :-)

Do give the spider curl a try if you haven't before. It's a good exercise and I'm sure it'll put less strain on your forearm than a preacher or seated curl, and because you can't use your body to help move the weight you'll have to go a bit lighter than other curls, maybe 75% or so, which also means less stress for the tendons.
 

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,664
I just noticed right now that Waist, Hip and Neck are default, and you can add other measurements too of your own. And then you can view your history, see a graph, etc.

Could you show us where in the app these are? I just got the latest update and can't see anything about waist, hip, neck etc. I don't have the Premium upgrade, if that is needed.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Could you show us where in the app these are? I just got the latest update and can't see anything about waist, hip, neck etc. I don't have the Premium upgrade, if that is needed.
In the app (Android) via main menu, Progress, click on Weight to switch to other measurements. I don't see where to add a custom one though.

On desktop via main menu, Check-in, click on Track Additional Measurements and it worked for me. I tested it, adding Bicep. I don't have Premium. You can view the Weight and tons of other graphs via Reports at the main menu.
 

KillerBEA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
294
1 week of prep left for my next strongman competition, which also means that I will be able to start eating to gain again soon :)
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
1 week of prep left for my next strongman competition, which also means that I will be able to start eating to gain again soon :)
Good luck.

Are you not eating big now? I saw a recent Stoltman vid about their eating preparation before a big competition, and they were eating a ton of food in the days leading up to it.
 

Rikalaus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
830
Good luck.

Are you not eating big now? I saw a recent Stoltman vid about their eating preparation before a big competition, and they were eating a ton of food in the days leading up to it.

You can tell when Tom properly starts his WSM prep, his diet goes up to 10k+ calories. I know at one point for his 2022 win he was having 13,000
 

KillerBEA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
294
Good luck.

Are you not eating big now? I saw a recent Stoltman vid about their eating preparation before a big competition, and they were eating a ton of food in the days leading up to it.
I am competing as a lightweight strongman this time. So I have to weigh in 181lbs or under. I got done cutting 45lbs 3 weeks ago, so I am just maintaining at 178 til weigh in day. When I do my competition in October, I will be competing as middleweight (181-220), so my eating will be bigger. Diet is much closer to the stereotypical gym bro diet right now. Before was eat what I want to get bigger, which stopped working very well at some point.

For reference body I had last time I competed as a middleweight, weighing in near the top of my allowed weight, vs competing as a lightweight for the first time.
20240324-223733.jpg
 
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Zyrokai

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,299
Columbus, Ohio
Gonna make this as brief as possible because I know you guys probably get a lot of these. I did this before here but want a fresh start:

Male / 36 / 250lbs

I want to lose 50 pounds of fat. I've got a really good base of muscle under the fat.

Is this plan too extreme?

2-3x strength training / week
5-6x cardio training / week
1800 calories
40p/30c/30f macro percent split (180g protein / 135g carb / 60g fat)
Fulfill the calorie and macro goals by eating healthy foods, obviously

I want to lose this as fast as possible without being unhealthy, obviously. My goal is to lose 50 by the 4th of July where I have a vacation planned. I was debating between 2200, 2000, and 1800 calories.

What do you guys think?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Gonna make this as brief as possible because I know you guys probably get a lot of these. I did this before here but want a fresh start:

Male / 36 / 250lbs

I want to lose 50 pounds of fat. I've got a really good base of muscle under the fat.

Is this plan too extreme?

2-3x strength training / week
5-6x cardio training / week
1800 calories
40p/30c/30f macro percent split (180g protein / 135g carb / 60g fat)
Fulfill the calorie and macro goals by eating healthy foods, obviously

I want to lose this as fast as possible without being unhealthy, obviously. My goal is to lose 50 by the 4th of July where I have a vacation planned. I was debating between 2200, 2000, and 1800 calories.

What do you guys think?
Yeah I think that's way too extreme. That's 14 weeks. 2 pounds per week would be a realistic target, and even that won't be easy. It sounds like you've had some difficulty keeping up with regular exercise and/or diet habits? That's all the more reason to set realistic goals, to set yourself up for success.

Have you been working out recently like this, or will you be diving in? If the latter, be prepared for some serious DOMS. I'd highly recommend easing into the exercise for the first two or three weeks.

The protein is a good amount, that's 0.7g per pound which is great.

It's best to do your cardio workout separate from the lifting, other than a 5-10 min cardio warmup before lifting ofc.

If you can lose 28 pounds in 14 weeks, that would be great. Then take a diet break during vacation. That doesn't mean go wild. I mean aim for maintenance levels, portion control with unhealthy stuff, moderation with alcohol, and keep active with walks, hikes, etc. Then resume when you get back.
 

Zyrokai

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,299
Columbus, Ohio
Yeah I think that's way too extreme. That's 14 weeks. 2 pounds per week would be a realistic target, and even that won't be easy. It sounds like you've had some difficulty keeping up with regular exercise and/or diet habits? That's all the more reason to set realistic goals, to set yourself up for success.

Have you been working out recently like this, or will you be diving in? If the latter, be prepared for some serious DOMS. I'd highly recommend easing into the exercise for the first two or three weeks.

The protein is a good amount, that's 0.7g per pound which is great.

It's best to do your cardio workout separate from the lifting, other than a 5-10 min cardio warmup before lifting ofc.

If you can lose 28 pounds in 14 weeks, that would be great. Then take a diet break during vacation. That doesn't mean go wild. I mean aim for maintenance levels, portion control with unhealthy stuff, moderation with alcohol, and keep active with walks, hikes, etc. Then resume when you get back.

Hey, thank you so much. Good suggestions here and you made me realize I should definitely adjust some things.

But I also think I should provide a little more context and see what you think.....here's some more context in the form of bullet points:

  • I workout heavily each time I do strength training. I'm pretty proud in that regard. Not worried about DOMS as I've never really stopped exercising. It's all diet for me.
  • My cardio is dismal compared to what it used to be. It's probably because I barely do cardio plus I'm far heavier than I used to be.
  • I was healthy and fit up until 2020 (180lbs.) where I kinda just let everything fall apart in regards to the diet + extended time not exercising. Covid ruined me.
  • In 2021, I resumed exercising again but....I developed a bad alcohol habit. Like.....3 years bad.
  • I still exercised during this time. I didn't realize it was a problem until I tried to quit. I'm just now making true strides in sobriety and it's been so hard but I'm actually doing it.
  • This has motivated me to eat well and monitor that much more. It's hard to explain but alcohol kinda ruined my life but I didn't realize it until second half of last year.
  • Now here's where I feel more confident with the 50 pounds: Last time I went sober for 25 days, I lost almost 30 pounds without even trying. It was astounding to me and I didn't even change my behavior except the alcohol. So if I couple that with better regimen and true, proper eating, I thought 50 might actually be achievable.
  • I've already lost 12 pounds since the beginning of March (I was 262) and, once again, I didn't change anything except cut back on alcohol by a lot. Lots of sober days peppered with a few not sober days (part of how I'm trying to quit with help). So there's a bit of a pattern.
  • I'm not saying I'm stubbornly sticking to the 50, I was just curious if the above information changes anything, lol.
So.....just wanted to say that! I think maybe 30 pounds (rounding up from your suggestion) is probably the better deal here, but I'm basically wondering if, like, I hit mid-April and I've already lost 20 without meaning to, haha.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Hey, thank you so much. Good suggestions here and you made me realize I should definitely adjust some things.

But I also think I should provide a little more context and see what you think.....here's some more context in the form of bullet points:

  • I workout heavily each time I do strength training. I'm pretty proud in that regard. Not worried about DOMS as I've never really stopped exercising. It's all diet for me.
  • My cardio is dismal compared to what it used to be. It's probably because I barely do cardio plus I'm far heavier than I used to be.
  • I was healthy and fit up until 2020 (180lbs.) where I kinda just let everything fall apart in regards to the diet + extended time not exercising. Covid ruined me.
  • In 2021, I resumed exercising again but....I developed a bad alcohol habit. Like.....3 years bad.
  • I still exercised during this time. I didn't realize it was a problem until I tried to quit. I'm just now making true strides in sobriety and it's been so hard but I'm actually doing it.
  • This has motivated me to eat well and monitor that much more. It's hard to explain but alcohol kinda ruined my life but I didn't realize it until second half of last year.
  • Now here's where I feel more confident with the 50 pounds: Last time I went sober for 25 days, I lost almost 30 pounds without even trying. It was astounding to me and I didn't even change my behavior except the alcohol. So if I couple that with better regimen and true, proper eating, I thought 50 might actually be achievable.
  • I've already lost 12 pounds since the beginning of March (I was 262) and, once again, I didn't change anything except cut back on alcohol by a lot. Lots of sober days peppered with a few not sober days (part of how I'm trying to quit with help). So there's a bit of a pattern.
  • I'm not saying I'm stubbornly sticking to the 50, I was just curious if the above information changes anything, lol.
So.....just wanted to say that! I think maybe 30 pounds (rounding up from your suggestion) is probably the better deal here, but I'm basically wondering if, like, I hit mid-April and I've already lost 20 without meaning to, haha.
Good luck. I'd offer just two bits of advice there, if you don't mind my 2c. Whatever you're doing needs to be sustainable. 4 pounds out of 250, or even 210 once you get there, is a very substantial calorie deficit. Don't set yourself up to fail. Secondly, the faster you lose, the more likely you are to lose more muscle with it. Frequenting lifting plus adequate protein will only help so far with a very large deficit.
 

Zyrokai

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,299
Columbus, Ohio
Good luck. I'd offer just two bits of advice there, if you don't mind my 2c. Whatever you're doing needs to be sustainable. 4 pounds out of 250, or even 210 once you get there, is a very substantial calorie deficit. Don't set yourself up to fail. Secondly, the faster you lose, the more likely you are to lose more muscle with it. Frequenting lifting plus adequate protein will only help so far with a very large deficit.

Thank you. I'm definitely going to do the 30 pound goal and just look at anything else as a bonus if it happens. I'll keep the 40/30/30 macro split and up the calories to 2200 and see how that does. My activity level will probably still be 2-3x lifting/week and I'll adjust to 4-5x cardio instead of of 5-6x /week.

Appreciate all the help! And yes, I love getting everyone's 2 cents!
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
Hello all, new to the thread.
I'm 42 and I've been going to the gym on and off for 20 years now but it just never clicked with me, despite having gone to the gym hundreds of times in my life I still feel like I don't really know what I'm doing.
I just do the same few exercises for each area each time I go, exercises that I am relatively comfortable with, but I still never feel fully sure that I am doing them right or the optimal way. Just basic stuff like the machines and bicep curls, bench presses etc.

I don't really know how to learn what to do without paying for a trainer (which I absolutely cannot afford).
I'll look at videos online of how to do exercises but it just doesn't play out when I'm at the gym.
I get really anxious about how I look at the gym, feels like everyone there knows what they're doing except me.
I have bad anxiety so I'm not going to interact with people at the gym or ask anyone for advice, I'm too embarrassed.
I don't want to look at videos on my phone while i'm at the gym either really as it's always busy and I feel like I can't take my time with stuff because there's always someone waiting use the equipment.

I just want to be more confident in what I'm doing and don't know where to start.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Hello all, new to the thread.
I'm 42 and I've been going to the gym on and off for 20 years now but it just never clicked with me, despite having gone to the gym hundreds of times in my life I still feel like I don't really know what I'm doing.
I just do the same few exercises for each area each time I go, exercises that I am relatively comfortable with, but I still never feel fully sure that I am doing them right or the optimal way. Just basic stuff like the machines and bicep curls, bench presses etc.

I don't really know how to learn what to do without paying for a trainer (which I absolutely cannot afford).
I'll look at videos online of how to do exercises but it just doesn't play out when I'm at the gym.
I get really anxious about how I look at the gym, feels like everyone there knows what they're doing except me.
I have bad anxiety so I'm not going to interact with people at the gym or ask anyone for advice, I'm too embarrassed.
I don't want to look at videos on my phone while i'm at the gym either really as it's always busy and I feel like I can't take my time with stuff because there's always someone waiting use the equipment.

I just want to be more confident in what I'm doing and don't know where to start.
Hey, it's great that you're going. Try not to worry about how you look at the gym. Everyone has been there, and nobody is thinking bad of you. If anything, some might want to help out with form tips but are worried they'll get snapped at in response.

Check out Jonni Shreve's channel. He has the best form guides I've seen. For example:



Machines are fine. You should focus on a row (horizontal and/or pull-down), chest press and/or cable fly's, shoulder press, squat movement (e.g. hack squat machine) and hamstrings (e.g. seated leg curl machine), with isolation stuff like bicep curls last if at all. It depends how often you're going, and how many sets you're doing, etc.

Go to 1-2 reps from failure, which means you must know where failure is so try for that every so often to get a gauge, and track your progress. Then increase reps and sets over time. Profit.
 

jetscanfly

Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,152
Sheepinator is right. No one really cares about how you look at the gym. Everyone is mostly focused on their own thing.

Having said that; if it's not clicking with you and you say you always do the same machines, what machines are you using? Are you doing the same stuff every day? How often are you going? I would mostly suggest more variation. Even if it's incline bench press vs. flat bench press – it still feels different.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,766
Hey gang, long time no post.

Just checking in to say my training is going relatively well (though I'm tired, all the goddamn time) and I've just started supplementing again as the next stage of dialing things in.

Still trying to do as much in the way of cooking as possible (as I enjoy it), but holy shit is it a pain in the arse to do when you're also calorie / macro counting. I end up setting up each recipe in MFP, which doesn't lend itself to me wanting to try new recipes as much as I otherwise would.
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
Hey, it's great that you're going. Try not to worry about how you look at the gym. Everyone has been there, and nobody is thinking bad of you. If anything, some might want to help out with form tips but are worried they'll get snapped at in response.

Check out Jonni Shreve's channel. He has the best form guides I've seen. For example:



Machines are fine. You should focus on a row (horizontal and/or pull-down), chest press and/or cable fly's, shoulder press, squat movement (e.g. hack squat machine) and hamstrings (e.g. seated leg curl machine), with isolation stuff like bicep curls last if at all. It depends how often you're going, and how many sets you're doing, etc.

Go to 1-2 reps from failure, which means you must know where failure is so try for that every so often to get a gauge, and track your progress. Then increase reps and sets over time. Profit.

Thanks for the reply.

So I do try and focus on one area each time I go, usually do chest one day, back another, shoulders sometimes, and a general arms/legs day.
So it's going to be difficult for me to write out exactly what I do as I don't know the exact names of everything - and so many exercises have similar names I'll probably get it wrong, but:

Back; I do the pull down machine thing, lat pull-down machine, low row machine, iso-lateral row, and actual rowing machine (like the non-weight one) - how do people differentiate between all these machines with near identical names??
Chest - chest press machine, dumbell presses? Not sure if that's what it's called, laying on my back with dumbbells. Sometimes at an incline. Dumbell flys? Is that right? And one where I lay on my back, hold a Dumbell up in my palms and like lower it behind my head - I have absolutey no idea what this move is called?

Arms I do bicep curls, pulling down the rope thing for triceps?

Sorry, trying to write out my workouts is excruciating. You get the idea hopefully.
Basically I try and do min five different exercises each time I'm at the gym, ideally all focusing on one part but it depends how busy it is, which machines are free etc.


Sheepinator is right. No one really cares about how you look at the gym. Everyone is mostly focused on their own thing.

Having said that; if it's not clicking with you and you say you always do the same machines, what machines are you using? Are you doing the same stuff every day? How often are you going? I would mostly suggest more variation. Even if it's incline bench press vs. flat bench press – it still feels different.

I knew people would say this, but it doesn't matter whether people are looking at me or not - my anxiety will make me believe they are and that's enough to make me stress.
I also can't deal with having to share equipment and stuff - sometimes someone will ask if they can jump on a machine I'm using between sets - and then they massively up the weights when it's their turn which is mortifying.
I just walk away now even if I'm not finished, I can't do it, I get too stressed out.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Fright Zone

You're sort of describing the bro-split, a 5-day split where each day is a different part. Science has shown us this is sub-optimal btw. Which makes sense. I mean say you fry your back on Monday doing five different exercises, and then you're recovered and ready to work your back again by Thursday, but you wait four more days until Monday to do so, that's a wasted opportunity.

As a beginner, you should aim for 10-12 working sets per week (not incl warmups) per group. And not to failure, although do go close to failure, 1-2 reps away. If you can hit a group two maybe three times in a week, that suggests two or one exercises per part per workout, which cuts down on your time looking for a new machine, then maybe doing a warmup, then finally getting settled in for a working set. This also makes sense, because most muscles only do one or two things. The biceps does elbow flexion. The chest does adduction. The quads do knee flexion. Etc. Sure maybe a certain head of the muscle also connects through the shoulder or hip or whatever, blah blah, but that's getting into the weeds, and you're not a pro bodybuilder.

If you can go four times, then Upper/Lower is good. Some also add in arms and shoulders on leg day, which ofc get a fair bit of work on upper day even if not doing isolations. Three times a week, do full body, though not necessarily the same things each workout, depending on your fatigue.

Look into Starting Strength. It's a very solid program to build a base of strength, which will build muscle too.

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Dumbell flys? Is that right? And one where I lay on my back, hold a Dumbell up in my palms and like lower it behind my head - I have absolutey no idea what this move is called?
Yes, fly's. If I had access to cables, I would 100% do those with cables than db's. a) Much better tension curve. b) Less risk of shoulder injury.

And that back one is a pullover. Great exercise. Don't pull it all the way up to vertical above you, that loses all tension on the back and maybe brings in the chest a little, but it's often hard to feel the chest well while doing this anyway.

For chest press, a small incline is ideal, like 15 degrees. It works the middle and lower chest the same as flat bench press does, but it also works the upper chest more than flat bench.

Lastly, I sympathize with the anxiety there. If you can, maybe start up a conversation between sets (never during). Ask them if they can give you any tips. It's irrelevant that they're lifting more. You don't know how many years they've been doing it, how hard they're training, if they're "enhanced", etc. You can only compare with yourself, i.e. progressive overload.
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
Haha, the bro split?

See this is why it's all so, so confusing. I've read tons of beginner gym guides over the years and feel like most of them worked on the premise of working different parts on different days. I thought that was the best way.
There's SO much conflicting info about workouts out there, I have no idea who or what to trust.
The more I read/research, the more confused I am.

Man, just the thought of trying to talk to someone at the gym made me recoil, sorry but that's just an absolute no-go for me right now. I'm in a really bad place with my anxiety/depression and talking to new people - especially in an environment where I already feel deeply uncomfortable - isn't happening.
Thats why I'm trying to work out though, in the hope that being physically fitter would help me mentally and boost my confidence etc, but it's not helping thus far.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
See this is why it's all so, so confusing. I've read tons of beginner gym guides over the years and feel like most of them worked on the premise of working different parts on different days. I thought that was the best way.
As well as being confirmed by studies, it's common sense right? I mean say you're more of an intermediate lifter, aiming for at least 15 working sets per week. If you do 15 in one workout, well that's really getting into junk volume after about 10 sets, with diminishing returns for each set after. And then after you're recovered a few days later and ready to go again, you... don't. OTOH, someone else who does 5 hard working sets one day, then again 2-3 days later, then again 2-3 days later, you would expect that to be better for muscle growth, right? And it is.

The split you choose is ultimately dictated by your schedule. How many days per week are you doing?
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
The split you choose is ultimately dictated by your schedule. How many days per week are you doing?

I don't have a schedule. I just go when I can. Could be four times in a week or one. Really dependant on my headspace.
Today for example I have had the day off and meant to but my anxiety is so bad I can't get myself to leave the house, it's so frustrating.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
I don't have a schedule. I just go when I can. Could be four times in a week or one. Really dependant on my headspace.
Today for example I have had the day off and meant to but my anxiety is so bad I can't get myself to leave the house, it's so frustrating.
Sounds like Upper/Lower would work for you, assuming you aren't going to do something like Starting Strength. So chest and back one workout, 5-6 sets total for each, and legs the next workout with optional arms/shoulders. However, if it has been several days, and you don't expect to be back again for several days, do full body that time, so pick one exercise per part and do about 3-5 working sets for chest, back, quads, hams.
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
Sounds like Upper/Lower would work for you, assuming you aren't going to do something like Starting Strength. So chest and back one workout, 5-6 sets total for each, and legs the next workout with optional arms/shoulders. However, if it has been several days, and you don't expect to be back again for several days, do full body that time, so pick one exercise per part and do about 3-5 working sets for chest, back, quads, hams.

Thanks.
I'll be honest - splitting it into upper/lower doesn't make sense to me as I don't really do leg exercises.
I know, I know. But my legs are the only part of me that I'm actually happy with. I walk a ton and my legs look fine, I don't need them to be any stronger.
The only leg exercises I do is squats.
Whereas across all the different parts I know like 20 diff upper body exercises. My upper body looks awful, fat belly and zero chest muscle, skinny arms, no shoulders.

I made it out to the gym, I'm there right now.
Feeling completely lost tbh, don't know what I'm doing any more.
Just tried to do some bicep curls with a barbell and I felt a lot of pain in my wrist. I have really thin weak wrists as I broke them both when I was young and they never healed properly.
Feeling like it's futile, I'm never going to be strong and fit I'm just not built for it, I'm kidding myself.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Just tried to do some bicep curls with a barbell and I felt a lot of pain in my wrist. I have really thin weak wrists as I broke them both when I was young and they never healed properly.
I am sure my wrists would hurt doing curls with the barbell, and it's not because of the weight, which btw is about 45 pounds which isn't what I'd call light weight for a beginner. Wrist pain with that movement is not uncommon. The EZ-bar is far kinder on the wrists, and you get the same curl movement to target the biceps. It will be about half the weight of the barbell btw. Or use dumbbells.

It doesn't matter what your starting point is. It's all about consistency and progression. Put in the effort and you will be rewarded.
 

pioneer

Member
May 31, 2022
4,261
Thanks.
I'll be honest - splitting it into upper/lower doesn't make sense to me as I don't really do leg exercises.
I know, I know. But my legs are the only part of me that I'm actually happy with. I walk a ton and my legs look fine, I don't need them to be any stronger.
The only leg exercises I do is squats.
Whereas across all the different parts I know like 20 diff upper body exercises. My upper body looks awful, fat belly and zero chest muscle, skinny arms, no shoulders.

I made it out to the gym, I'm there right now.
Feeling completely lost tbh, don't know what I'm doing any more.
Just tried to do some bicep curls with a barbell and I felt a lot of pain in my wrist. I have really thin weak wrists as I broke them both when I was young and they never healed properly.
Feeling like it's futile, I'm never going to be strong and fit I'm just not built for it, I'm kidding myself.

It's totally normal to feel this way. If you keep pushing yourself it won't be futile at all. I know it's easier said than done, but you can do it!
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,342
Thanks.
I'll be honest - splitting it into upper/lower doesn't make sense to me as I don't really do leg exercises.
I know, I know. But my legs are the only part of me that I'm actually happy with. I walk a ton and my legs look fine, I don't need them to be any stronger.
The only leg exercises I do is squats.
Whereas across all the different parts I know like 20 diff upper body exercises. My upper body looks awful, fat belly and zero chest muscle, skinny arms, no shoulders.

I made it out to the gym, I'm there right now.
Feeling completely lost tbh, don't know what I'm doing any more.
Just tried to do some bicep curls with a barbell and I felt a lot of pain in my wrist. I have really thin weak wrists as I broke them both when I was young and they never healed properly.
Feeling like it's futile, I'm never going to be strong and fit I'm just not built for it, I'm kidding myself.
No offense, but if I was to compile a list of mistaken beliefs that could hold someone back in improving their physical fitness, you'd have ticked off basically all of them.
You've had minimal results from a large cumulative number of hours of exercise, and it felt aimless and like you didn't know what you were doing, so you ask for advice. Upon hearing said advice, you try to deflect or dismiss it. You're told that your experience isn't uncommon, and there are more effective methods aimed at countering the misconceptions you and many others have been exposed to, but instead you internalise your poor results as something intrinsic to yourself (in this instance, wrist pain from barbell curls is very common, and as mentioned is why there's a specific bar for that).

There are some posts above encouraging you to stick at it and the results will come; I understand the motivations but given your statement above I'm going to challenge that a bit. If you keep just going to the gym and aimlessly doing multiple sets of targeted upper body exercises I don't think you'll get the results you're looking for. I say this both because it's basically true, and there are far more effective ways to train, and because I don't think motivation is your only barrier. It does sound like your schedule could be more regular, but that you're going multiple times a week at all shows that you have the will to make progress. What is missing is the direction, which is a self-reinforcing problem, because if you feel directionless and aren't seeing results, that's going to impact your motivation.

From your self description it sounds like you are probably "skinny-fat" as they call it, which means you have a higher bodyfat percentage by virtue of lower muscle mass. Following a basic program of whole body strength training is the most effective way to change that, as well as improving your overall health and your capacity for more targeted bodybuilding style training (the "bro split" you have been doing). This means doing squats and/or deadlifts; your legs are the largest muscles in your body, and the most effective ways to load your entire muscular-skeletal system are going to involve them. Currently you feel your legs "look fine" (most people's do; they don't carry fat the way the upper body does and it takes very low bodyfat and large leg muscles to make them look like a bodybuilder's or sprint cyclist's, so most folk's legs look pretty similar), but they could probably be a lot stronger, and that strength is fundamental to improving your total fitness and muscle mass.

Apologies if this post is too blunt; I don't much care for "tough love" style motivational speeches and am not trying to make one. But take it from someone else with a build not really suited to strength training; you can almost certainly improve your fitness much more than you have before, without some crazy increase in effort or complexity (indeed, it could even be drastically simpler than the routines you have been using). But it requires following proven and effective advice/programming, not reflexively defending whichever received wisdom you've picked up along the way.
 

jetscanfly

Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,152
No offense, but if I was to compile a list of mistaken beliefs that could hold someone back in improving their physical fitness, you'd have ticked off basically all of them.
You've had minimal results from a large cumulative number of hours of exercise, and it felt aimless and like you didn't know what you were doing, so you ask for advice. Upon hearing said advice, you try to deflect or dismiss it. You're told that your experience isn't uncommon, and there are more effective methods aimed at countering the misconceptions you and many others have been exposed to, but instead you internalise your poor results as something intrinsic to yourself (in this instance, wrist pain from barbell curls is very common, and as mentioned is why there's a specific bar for that).

There are some posts above encouraging you to stick at it and the results will come; I understand the motivations but given your statement above I'm going to challenge that a bit. If you keep just going to the gym and aimlessly doing multiple sets of targeted upper body exercises I don't think you'll get the results you're looking for. I say this both because it's basically true, and there are far more effective ways to train, and because I don't think motivation is your only barrier. It does sound like your schedule could be more regular, but that you're going multiple times a week at all shows that you have the will to make progress. What is missing is the direction, which is a self-reinforcing problem, because if you feel directionless and aren't seeing results, that's going to impact your motivation.

From your self description it sounds like you are probably "skinny-fat" as they call it, which means you have a higher bodyfat percentage by virtue of lower muscle mass. Following a basic program of whole body strength training is the most effective way to change that, as well as improving your overall health and your capacity for more targeted bodybuilding style training (the "bro split" you have been doing). This means doing squats and/or deadlifts; your legs are the largest muscles in your body, and the most effective ways to load your entire muscular-skeletal system are going to involve them. Currently you feel your legs "look fine" (most people's do; they don't carry fat the way the upper body does and it takes very low bodyfat and large leg muscles to make them look like a bodybuilder's or sprint cyclist's, so most folk's legs look pretty similar), but they could probably be a lot stronger, and that strength is fundamental to improving your total fitness and muscle mass.

Apologies if this post is too blunt; I don't much care for "tough love" style motivational speeches and am not trying to make one. But take it from someone else with a build not really suited to strength training; you can almost certainly improve your fitness much more than you have before, without some crazy increase in effort or complexity (indeed, it could even be drastically simpler than the routines you have been using). But it requires following proven and effective advice/programming, not reflexively defending whichever received wisdom you've picked up along the way.
I think a lot of people need to read this. Great post!
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,124
London
I am sure my wrists would hurt doing curls with the barbell, and it's not because of the weight, which btw is about 45 pounds which isn't what I'd call light weight for a beginner. Wrist pain with that movement is not uncommon. The EZ-bar is far kinder on the wrists, and you get the same curl movement to target the biceps. It will be about half the weight of the barbell btw. Or use dumbbells.

It doesn't matter what your starting point is. It's all about consistency and progression. Put in the effort and you will be rewarded.

Thanks, good to know that's something that is known to cause pain. I've been getting pain in my wrists from all sorts of exercise, even gentle stuff like yoga.
I don't think it was 45 pounds though, it said 20 on it (it didn't even say whether that's pounds or kg, I assume pounds?)

No offense, but if I was to compile a list of mistaken beliefs that could hold someone back in improving their physical fitness, you'd have ticked off basically all of them.
You've had minimal results from a large cumulative number of hours of exercise, and it felt aimless and like you didn't know what you were doing, so you ask for advice. Upon hearing said advice, you try to deflect or dismiss it. You're told that your experience isn't uncommon, and there are more effective methods aimed at countering the misconceptions you and many others have been exposed to, but instead you internalise your poor results as something intrinsic to yourself (in this instance, wrist pain from barbell curls is very common, and as mentioned is why there's a specific bar for that).

There are some posts above encouraging you to stick at it and the results will come; I understand the motivations but given your statement above I'm going to challenge that a bit. If you keep just going to the gym and aimlessly doing multiple sets of targeted upper body exercises I don't think you'll get the results you're looking for. I say this both because it's basically true, and there are far more effective ways to train, and because I don't think motivation is your only barrier. It does sound like your schedule could be more regular, but that you're going multiple times a week at all shows that you have the will to make progress. What is missing is the direction, which is a self-reinforcing problem, because if you feel directionless and aren't seeing results, that's going to impact your motivation.

From your self description it sounds like you are probably "skinny-fat" as they call it, which means you have a higher bodyfat percentage by virtue of lower muscle mass. Following a basic program of whole body strength training is the most effective way to change that, as well as improving your overall health and your capacity for more targeted bodybuilding style training (the "bro split" you have been doing). This means doing squats and/or deadlifts; your legs are the largest muscles in your body, and the most effective ways to load your entire muscular-skeletal system are going to involve them. Currently you feel your legs "look fine" (most people's do; they don't carry fat the way the upper body does and it takes very low bodyfat and large leg muscles to make them look like a bodybuilder's or sprint cyclist's, so most folk's legs look pretty similar), but they could probably be a lot stronger, and that strength is fundamental to improving your total fitness and muscle mass.

Apologies if this post is too blunt; I don't much care for "tough love" style motivational speeches and am not trying to make one. But take it from someone else with a build not really suited to strength training; you can almost certainly improve your fitness much more than you have before, without some crazy increase in effort or complexity (indeed, it could even be drastically simpler than the routines you have been using). But it requires following proven and effective advice/programming, not reflexively defending whichever received wisdom you've picked up along the way.

No offence taken at all, not too blunt, very helpful!
I wasn't trying to dismiss anyone's advice, apologies if it came across that way, I just said I was confused by it.

Yeah skinny-fat is probably right, I'm about 180lbs and 5'10, my digital scales put me at 25.7 BMI and say I'm slightly overweight, no idea how accurate they are though.

Fair point about the legs. But as someone who doesn't know much about training, if you want bigger chest and arm muscles it seems logical to work those areas, it's hard to grasp that doing leg exercises will lead to looking the way I want to look.

So, just to be clear, if I am going to the gym 2/3 times a week, I should be doing a full body workout every time?
Deadlifts terrify me, that's the kind of exercise that seems unwise to attempt unless you know exactly what you're doing?
I don't want to put my back out!

Thanks again for the advice everyone, I need to reset and throw out everything I thought I knew and start over I think!
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
I don't think it was 45 pounds though, it said 20 on it (it didn't even say whether that's pounds or kg, I assume pounds?)
An Olympic barbell is 45 pounds. If it was about 7ft long it was surely that. Maybe it was kg you saw, or maybe it was a shorter bar.

Fair point about the legs. But as someone who doesn't know much about training, if you want bigger chest and arm muscles it seems logical to work those areas, it's hard to grasp that doing leg exercises will lead to looking the way I want to look.
Because your body gets much bigger signals to grow from working the biggest muscles (via compound exercises) than doing bicep curls. For example strongmen have huge arms, and do you think they ever do a single biceps curl?

So, just to be clear, if I am going to the gym 2/3 times a week, I should be doing a full body workout every time?
Yes, with a focus on compounds first. Don't waste your time doing bicep curls until after your compounds are done, if at all. Track your progress. I use Google Sheets. Progressive overload.

Deadlifts terrify me, that's the kind of exercise that seems unwise to attempt unless you know exactly what you're doing?
I don't want to put my back out!
You don't need to do deadlifts if you don't want to. And if you did, once per week is enough. You can do perfectly fine with machines and cables, and within that category I include machines that are plate loaded, like leg press, hack squat, chest supported row, etc.
 
Last edited:
Nov 14, 2017
2,342
Thanks, good to know that's something that is known to cause pain. I've been getting pain in my wrists from all sorts of exercise, even gentle stuff like yoga.
I don't think it was 45 pounds though, it said 20 on it (it didn't even say whether that's pounds or kg, I assume pounds?)



No offence taken at all, not too blunt, very helpful!
I wasn't trying to dismiss anyone's advice, apologies if it came across that way, I just said I was confused by it.

Yeah skinny-fat is probably right, I'm about 180lbs and 5'10, my digital scales put me at 25.7 BMI and say I'm slightly overweight, no idea how accurate they are though.

Fair point about the legs. But as someone who doesn't know much about training, if you want bigger chest and arm muscles it seems logical to work those areas, it's hard to grasp that doing leg exercises will lead to looking the way I want to look.

So, just to be clear, if I am going to the gym 2/3 times a week, I should be doing a full body workout every time?
Deadlifts terrify me, that's the kind of exercise that seems unwise to attempt unless you know exactly what you're doing?
I don't want to put my back out!

Thanks again for the advice everyone, I need to reset and throw out everything I thought I knew and start over I think!
Glad to hear it, it was pretty late when I wrote that. Basically there are a lot of popular misonceptions out there about fitness training, and a lot of these are/were pushed by gyms, equipment manufacturers, magazines etc because as a business model you want to have something new to sell. That's not to say that every new machine or routine or supplement etc is worthless, but the average person often isn't given context on how to effectively utilise them, or what the basis of most of their efforts should be given their needs/goals. So we end up with a lot of less useful advice floating around.

Sheepinator's covered most of your questions about training, but just a few points. If for example, you went to the gym 3 times a week and spent an hour working just your arms each time, your arms might get bigger than they would if you did whole body compounds including arm accessory work 3 times a week. But every other part of your body would lag behind, and eventually you'd find that that disparity would limit your ability to effectively train your arms. And that's with exclusively targeting arms 3 times a week. If you're doing an upper body push/pull/press split (roughly chest, back and shoulders) 3 times a week, then the frequency of training for each individual part may be lower than if you were doing a whole body workout each time. And as mentioned, effective whole body workouts provide a greater growth impetus and improve your work capacity overall, as well as having long-term health benefits.

You can certainly injure yourself doing deadlifts with improper form (as you can with squats, bench press, or any weight or machine). I'm an advocate of free weight barbell training for anyone physically able to, but as with any exercise, you should learn the form, warm-up and start light, and get feedback on your form (you can film yourself on your phone if you don't want to ask someone in person). Decisions about exercise choice and form are ones you'll have to make yourself, but I'll just note that the deadlift is one of the simplest movements to learn, with fewer mobility requirements than something like a proper barbell squat, and also has a lot of carry-over to your daily life. You can injure yourself deadlifting, but you can also injure yourself picking up a box off the floor; you know the term "lift with your legs, not your back"? Practicing deadlifts will mean you naturally know how to brace and position yourself to minimise the risk of those sorts of common, acute back injuries.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,047
CT
Had my first body scan after 6 weeks with the personal trainer. I'm down purely in fat and have maintained all muscle since I started dieting and exercising again. Averaging about 1.5 pounds a week.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,399
Tried pre exhausting chest with flies before my main chest workout, which was flat DB press. I was afraid all that lactic acid and blood to the chest the quality would suffer but doesn't seem to have. May continue to do this.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,169
Tried pre exhausting chest with flies before my main chest workout, which was flat DB press. I was afraid all that lactic acid and blood to the chest the quality would suffer but doesn't seem to have. May continue to do this.
Interesting. Could you increase volume that way? If you got the same volume on the press, and doing fly's first instead of second led to more reps on those.

I've always done press then fly's, assuming press should go first, being the main exercise. Also flat bench for me means 15 degrees, as Jonni Shreve explains, and studies have shown that a small incline leads to more upper chest recruitment and the same middle and lower chest as flat. 45 degrees hits my front delts too much so I don't do that. I could try 30 degrees I suppose. I've been liking the 15 degrees option though.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,399
I just jumped back to DBs over the past month. I went lightish but think I could've done the same volume. I think the idea of pre exhausting is to get a better mind muscle connection? Be able to focus on the chest activation more? I think it helped. Maybe building up the Work capacity now that I'm back to a Bro-ish split it'll get better.

Another exercise I just went back to is dips. That was my last chest exercise and surprisingly the volume was up to par with my old U/L split.