Like I said numerous times, you can have it both ways. Check the threadmarked post.
And honestly, fuck those people. If anything, triggering those assholes is a benefit.
Who are those assholes?
Like I said numerous times, you can have it both ways. Check the threadmarked post.
And honestly, fuck those people. If anything, triggering those assholes is a benefit.
The people in......certain circles who cry out "forced diversity".
My stance from 2014:
Op-ed: It’s time for Nintendo to move beyond white characters
Why Nintendo should partake in an out-of-nowhere diversity conversation.arstechnica.com
The comment section from that year was...... not great.
Midna definitely doesn't count lolI'm not sure I can see Link or Zelda as dark skinned. I think Urbosa was an amazing character, so I definitely want a more diverse cast. But the only way a Link or Zelda can be "whatever race you want" is if they allow you to create your own character, and then I'm not sure it should be even be called The Legend of Zelda at that point.
TLoZ definitely has a race problem, because Dark Link is a bad guy and Ganondorf is dark skinned (Gerudo are mostly dark skinned) and he is evil. They have introduced other white skin bad guys in the game (skyward sword) and dark skin heroes (Midna? Urbosa and Riju). So I think that's a step in the right direction.
I don't think I agree with some people here trying to basically cancel Zelda lol
My dream Zelda game is having Link and Zelda be both playable at the same time. Imagine the puzzles and dungeons they can come up with if you have to think about splitting them both, explore rooms separately, etc. I'm hoping that's what BOTW2 will bring new to the franchise.
I'm not sure I can see Link or Zelda as dark skinned. I think Urbosa was an amazing character, so I definitely want a more diverse cast. But the only way a Link or Zelda can be "whatever race you want" is if they allow you to create your own character, and then I'm not sure it should be even be called The Legend of Zelda at that point.
TLoZ definitely has a race problem, because Dark Link is a bad guy and Ganondorf is dark skinned (Gerudo are mostly dark skinned) and he is evil. They have introduced other white skin bad guys in the game (skyward sword) and dark skin heroes (Midna? Urbosa and Riju). So I think that's a step in the right direction.
I don't think I agree with some people here trying to basically cancel Zelda lol
My dream Zelda game is having Link and Zelda be both playable at the same time. Imagine the puzzles and dungeons they can come up with if you have to think about splitting them both, explore rooms separately, etc. I'm hoping that's what BOTW2 will bring new to the franchise.
The argument here is basically that Nintendo should look to Disney and Netflix as positive examples of diversity, right? That's cool, except that we should acknowledge that part of the reason those projects are successful is because they are created by, or at the very least casted POC in prominent roles. I am 100% on board with a team of black developers making the next Zelda or Michael B Jordan playing Link in the next game or something, but we gotta be honest about what it is we're asking for.Speaking of, to depict the family which presides over the great kingdom of Hyrule as Black would add to the growing number of depictions of Black people as royals (Black Panther, Beyonce's Black is King, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, Bridgerton). All of which contribute to the idea that being black isn't limited to any one lived experience, and allows people of color to occupy roles traditionally depicted by white people.
I don't think I agree with some people here trying to basically cancel Zelda lol
Pretty much agree, would be waaaaaay cooler to have another princess or hero character in the world of LoZ that just also happens to have a different skin tone.
Miles Morales is a great example, we dont need a black Peter Parker instead we want a unique character that is all himself.
As someone who is a hispanic I would prefer a cool original character than a Link they chose to make hispanic just cause they thought it would get points on twitter.
In short we deserve to have our own characters, not colour swaps of existing characters.
From my point of view, this isn't a benefit, it just generate hate on each side and it doesn't help either way.
Except that one side is very clearly in the wrong.From my point of view, this isn't a benefit, it just generate hate on each side and it doesn't help either way.
I'm black and I just think no. This is not how diversity should be handled.
Stop with the painting existing characters to a different colour. That's not how it should be.
Black panther is the prime example of how it should be done a character with his own lore and origin not a recolouring of existing characters.
I definitely don't agree with this thread at all.
yes and no, I can see where you are coming from tho but I would have to disagree, SpiderMan is more of a title, similar to Hero of Time.Miles Morales is a bad example because Miles Morales is Spider-Man. Just like how a black Zelda could be her own character and still be Zelda, a princess who holds the Triforce of Wisdom.
Girls aren't allowed to be goofy I guessLinkle was problematic herself. Like, she's a woman and her main gimmick is she's bad at directions and can't read a map... Seriously??
Women being bad at directions is a huge stereotype. It would be like if they made the first Black Link a hip hop dancer or something
I'm black and I just think no. This is not how diversity should be handled.
Stop with the painting existing characters to a different colour. That's not how it should be.
Black panther is the prime example of how it should be done a character with his own lore and origin not a recolouring of existing characters.
I definitely don't agree with this thread at all.
From my point of view, this isn't a benefit, it just generate hate on each side and it doesn't help either way.
Indeed but hate doesn't help, that what I'm trying to say.
The people in......certain circles who cry out "forced diversity".
You know what I would love to see? An entire Zelda game inspired by Latin American culture. Regardless of what kingdom, town, or valley you enter you see people of all skin colors living together. Hylians, Kokiri, Gerudo, all of them. I don't believe it's set in stone that every race in Hyrule is limited to a single skin color.
Black Zelda? I'm all for it. But I would also love to see more Latino representation that isn't just brown skin.
And yeah, Link should be fully customable including, eye, hair and skin color.
I get and agree with this for some games, but not for Zelda. Having a POC main character in Zelda who suddenly has to navigate racism and inequality when that's never been a thing in the games would make me question why we can't just have a POC lead with none of our real world baggage, when white leads never have to bother and can just exist without having to justify or explain their presence in this world.I would love a black/brown main character, but I want them to be written that way, so that the way they navigate the world is reflected in that identity. Of course I'm not saying that they need to be constantly "othered", but I want to be able to relate to them as a BIPOC in more than just "reskin of character".
I get and agree with this for some games, but not for Zelda. Having a POC main character in Zelda who suddenly has to navigate racism and inequality when that's never been a thing in the games would make me question why we can't just have a POC lead with none of our real world baggage, when white leads never have to bother and can just exist without having to justify or explain their presence in this world.
I agree with you. It's a similar concept to me as when people say "make Link a girl/make Zelda the knight". It's a lazy answer to diversity.
I would love a black/brown main character, but I want them to be written that way, so that the way they navigate the world is reflected in that identity. Of course I'm not saying that they need to be constantly "othered", but I want to be able to relate to them as a BIPOC in more than just "reskin of character".
Yes, obviously, but what I mean is that in the game world the Gerudo didn't face discrimination because of their race. We as the audience can see the issues with their representation, but that's separate from how the game world treats them.Never? Lmaoooo. Sooo the threat of Ganondorf from the Gerudo...you felt wasn't dipping into racism?
I get and agree with this for some games, but not for Zelda. Having a POC main character in Zelda who suddenly has to navigate racism and inequality when that's never been a thing in the games would make me question why we can't just have a POC lead with none of our real world baggage, when white leads never have to bother and can just exist without having to justify or explain their presence in this world.
I understand and respect the logic behind this, but I think this leads to it's on can of worms.
Zelda is fantasy. I think it should be ok to want to see Black representation in fantasy settings without needing the real world Black experience to be written into it, because what is the Black experience in Hyrule? Racism? Discrimination? We don't know that, and it doesn't have to be that. Obviously, if this were to be something Nintendo did (and, no, never in a million years would Nintendo do this) the would have to consult Black talent for sensitivity reasons; but I think it's ok for Black people to want fantastical stories and experiences without being hit over the head with the real world experience. Sometimes, Black settings and Black characters are really enough, and I think Fantasy really is the genre where you can get away with "surface level" representation that is nevertheless still impactful.
I honestly think the reason why this discussion comes up so often with Zelda is because It's the legacy Nintendo property with the most built-in lore to support a wide range of diversity in their main cast. And again we've seen them do it...when it comes to their villains.
But there's a game world where their entire race is egg stealing pirates though. And the rest of the time the game world treats them like the enemies they are cause their society requires them to follow the fucking Prince of DarknessYes, obviously, but what I mean is that in the game world the Gerudo didn't face discrimination because of their race. We as the audience can see the issues with their representation, but that's separate from how the game world treats them.
Yes, obviously, but what I mean is that in the game world the Gerudo didn't face discrimination because of their race. We as the audience can see the issues with their representation, but that's separate from how the game world treats them.
This why I took matters into my own hands during my first BOTW playthrough. Cus I know Nintendo would never give it to me.
Once again, there's room for both.We need new leading POC characters in Nintendo's worlds. With genuine effort put into their development and backgrounds. As POC Black Zelda is not the answer.
I mean, there's more to being a BIPOC/visible minority than racism/discrimination - for example, perhaps you have certain cultural references and therefore perspectives that differ from the majority. Or, perhaps others expect you to, but you actually don't. Maybe there's curiosity or assumptions regarding your features/lineage, etc etc
I don't really get why anytime the idea of the BIPOC experience is mentioned, people think it has to be tied with trauma/discomfort. There can be a richness with it as well. Or it can be a neutral experience!
For example, one way this could be written in a Zelda setting is say all of a sudden, a Gerudo girl is born with the Triforce of Wisdom, and it turns out she somehow has lineage to the Royal Family. How would she react to this revelation, and how would the world of Hyrule react to it? How would the story and her character development change versus if she were just a typical Hylian princess?
There's many ways to engage with the topic more deeply without necessarily making a grand statement about racism/discrimination/the Black struggle.
I mean, there's more to being a BIPOC/visible minority than racism/discrimination - for example, perhaps you have certain cultural references and therefore perspectives that differ from the majority. Or, perhaps others expect you to, but you actually don't. Maybe there's curiosity or assumptions regarding your features/lineage, etc etc
I don't really get why anytime the idea of the BIPOC experience is mentioned, people think it has to be tied with trauma/discomfort. There can be a richness with it as well. Or it can be a neutral experience!
For example, one way this could be written in a Zelda setting is say all of a sudden, a Gerudo girl is born with the Triforce of Wisdom, and it turns out she somehow has lineage to the Royal Family. How would she react to this revelation, and how would the world of Hyrule react to it? How would the story and her character development change versus if she were just a typical Hylian princess?
There's many ways to engage with the topic more deeply without necessarily making a grand statement about racism/discrimination/the Black struggle.
Okay so let's pump the breaks. They are a threat because they are desert people. Media doesn't have to give you an encyclopedia to tell you a specific kind of people are bad. Ganondorf is told to us he's a threat from the desert people. The desert people in this game are viewed and shown to mostly be bad guys only.
So the Brown people in this game are the origin point of the big bad. A land of danger and all that mess. And you're really going to tell me this isn't racist? It may not be blatant but it falls right into it.
The Gerudo in Ocarina of Time aren't given the same grace and handling like other groups.
But if you want to interject say that it's "okay" that the desert people in a game staring a white elf is fine to be seen as baddies mostly? LOL.
Okay so let's pump the breaks. They are a threat because they are desert people. Media doesn't have to give you an encyclopedia to tell you a specific kind of people are bad. Ganondorf is told to us he's a threat from the desert people. The desert people in this game are viewed and shown to mostly be bad guys only.
So the Brown people in this game are the origin point of the big bad. A land of danger and all that mess. And you're really going to tell me this isn't racist? It may not be blatant but it falls right into it.
The Gerudo in Ocarina of Time aren't given the same grace and handling like other groups.
But if you want to interject say that it's "okay" that the desert people in a game staring a white elf is fine to be seen as baddies mostly? LOL.
Completely agree with this and your quoted post: diversity should be more than taking X or Y and making it black. And I would love to see a game where Zelda was the lead playable. Hell, give me a Gerudo spin-off where you play as a member of the tribe and explore the origins of Ganondorf.Exactly.
And whilst we're on the topic of diversity, I think a more valid attempt at diversity in Zelda is making Zelda the main playable character on her own quest and character arc, without delivering a watered down experience.
I don't think "Hey Bedouin/Navajo/Pintupi/other desert dwelling peoples, the way your people have lived for thousands of years is so abhorrent that it would surely drive somebody to attain power to use for evil" is that inclusive when you dive into it. It's still perpetuating the "desert people = bad" trope.Doesn't Ganondorf give even more nuance to this in Wind Waker? It's been forever since I played/beat WW, but didn't he say he sought the Triforce because his race was ostracized and forced to essentially live out a meager existence in the desert?
So like, even when giving him more than just "Big Bad Evil Guy" it's still showing that the Gerudo were treated differently by the Hylians than the partnerships they had with say, the Gorons or Zora.
By the way, for the people who think Link is not white and is just an ambiguous mix of Japanese and white:
Link's design in Ocarina of Time is based off a famous Hollywood actor
From the GoNintendo Archiveswww.gonintendo.com