Since retiring my Vita, the only VN I've played was 428. Again a great game, but playing it on a big screen was just not as comfortable as on a portable system. So my next games will have to be on Switch or maybe iPad. House in Fata Morgana seems like the obvious choice when it gets ported to Switch, I've read nothing but praise about the game.
i like them mixed with other gameplay or with multiple choices.
I'd say it's solid/good. The story isn't anything special, but the art, music and overall atmosphere are pretty good. It has some really creepy moments.How's Death Mark? A horror VN sounds like it could be really good.
I look forward to your VN interpretation of the best scene in 71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance:Most of what I played seemed too long, badly paced, tropey... I guess that's part of the reason why I'm writing my own stuff.
Maybe I have too high standards, because I compare VNs to other works in film and literature and they usually don't stand a chance... But I still think that's possible to make the equivalent of a Michael Haneke film in visual novel form, for instance, but nobody has done it yet. The talent may be working elsewhere.
it's called arrogance, you should probably know that word if you claim to be a writer.Most of what I played seemed too long, badly paced, tropey... I guess that's part of the reason why I'm writing my own stuff.
Maybe I have too high standards, because I compare VNs to other works in film and literature and they usually don't stand a chance... But I still think that's possible to make the equivalent of a Michael Haneke film in visual novel form, for instance, but nobody has done it yet. The talent may be working elsewhere.
That looks interesting, thanks for putting that on my radar.I'm anticipating Root Film out early next year. Cool art, good creative leads (Hifumi Kono) and good setting/backdrop (film setting).
I don't really understand. Why compare it to a book? It's not the same medium. You are using music and visuals to supplement dialogue and other things on screen. Also, whenever this comes up, I always am reminded that video game stories just aren't that good to begin with on a general level. But as for the books I've been reading, even some of those aren't as engaging as House in Fata Morgana, or even have as good of characters in that VN, and many being fairly popular and widely held current books. Being in book form doesn't make the story or characters good either. So it really depends on what in a story you like.Came to the realization recently that for the most part, I'd rather just read a book.
VNs that make use of the medium I appreciate, I really enjoyed the Zero Escape series and I liked 13 Sentinels a fair bit, but the likes of Steins;Gate, despite enjoying it, better suited the Episodic Anime format. For me, the problem seems to be that outside of a select few, the story is often 'videogame good' and wouldn't really have much success if it was released in some other medium, and for a genre based almost entirely around the story, it's not often worth the time investment. For me, The House in Fata Morgana was like that, with it's linear narrative and little in the way of interaction, made for a rather uninteresting experience. It also didn't help that (despite what seems to be the popular consensus) I really did not like the story, which felt overlong, repetitive, full of meandering and unengaging dialogue, and some paper thin supporting characters. My opinion is that if it were written as a book instead of a VN, it wouldn't have nearly the same level of reverence it seems to have.
But hey, I don't wanna yuck someone else's yum, so if you enjoy it, more power to you.
I don't really understand. Why compare it to a book? It's not the same medium. You are using music and visuals to supplement dialogue and other things on screen. Also, whenever this comes up, I always am reminded that video game stories just aren't that good to begin with on a general level. But as for the books I've been reading, even some of those aren't as engaging as House in Fata Morgana, or even have as good of characters in that VN, and many being fairly popular and widely held current books. Being in book form doesn't make the story or characters good either. So it really depends on what in a story you like.
When I see this come up, I often see people comparing the VN or game to their "ideal" book, and not what are the actual quality of current books today. Just something to keep in mind. Tons of books today have paper thin characters or weak plot or meandering scenes. But chances are, it might also just not be your cup of tea. Of course, that's not to say there aren't "gamey" aspects or weaknesses to the story. But comparing the VN to the "ideal" of a good book doesn't really hold relevance, I think, especially when you look at the medium and audience it's written for.
I'd highly recommend The Silver Case as a VN that came out in the late 90s, but got a modern remake. It feels more in line with stuff of that period. The remake's composer also worked on sound design in Snatcher.Are Policenauts and snatcher visual novels? Because I played those 2 games this year and loved them. I'd really like to try more games like that. What turns me off visual novels is that they all seem to have this modern style that's really off-putting.
Are there more VNs with late 80s to mid 90s anime style like Legend of the Galactic Heroes?
I am not a big anime fan but most of the stuff I like comes from that era for some reason.
I see, that makes sense. Sorry if my post came off a bit aggressive. But in a sense, you can compare the best of video games to the best of books, but you have to understand that storytelling has existed in that form for hundreds of years, with video game storytelling only being around for decades. Of course, this doesn't mean you can write off issues. But for example, Novectacle is a very small group of people who are making games at the indie level. This would be like comparing instead the game to a well-liked self-published book or small-publisher book. Just something to think about.That's a fair assessment and perhaps I was a bit to sweeping with my argument. I guess what I was trying to convey is that often VNs are championed for their story, Fata Morgana in particular, so it's natural for me to contrast it with stories I've enjoyed recently. With that particular narrative, I see it having more in common with a book, due to the limited interaction or player agency. However, contrast this with say, 13 Sentinels, personally I'm more likely to compare the story in that with those of video-games, due to it's more interactive nature.
This is not to say that inherently books are a better medium to tell stories, and I agree that there are no doubt a lot of books, both new and old, that don't hold a candle to the story in a particular VN. It's just that through sheer quantity of books it's easier for me to discern the ones that I may enjoy, so I feel as though I'm more likely to enjoy consuming the story of a book then that of a VN.
I feel as though that if it had been released as book instead and presented with the same enthusiasm as it is right now, I still would have come away disappointed. It's more so that I took the crème de la crème of narrative VNs and compared it to the crème de la crème narratives of books, and in my opinion, it fell short. Obviously, not everyone will agree, it is an opinion after all. Funnily enough, the parts I did enjoy about it were the Artwork and the Music, which obviously wouldn't be present in a book adaption.
I guess that's why I compare it to a book.
I would agree with this. I think it'll come in time as the medium gets more and more accepted and mainstream, but as of now I don't quite think it's quite there.Most of what I played seemed too long, badly paced, tropey... I guess that's part of the reason why I'm writing my own stuff.
Maybe I have too high standards, because I compare VNs to other works in film and literature and they usually don't stand a chance... But I still think that's possible to make the equivalent of a Michael Haneke film in visual novel form, for instance, but nobody has done it yet. The talent may be working elsewhere.
Really, really dislike them.
It's not the reading - I love to read. I hate:
- the terrible characters, filtered through the worst of anime excesses - I truly struggle to understand how people get past the awfulness of the protagonists in 5pb games and their menagerie of huge breasted stereotypes, for instance.
- the slooooooooooooooow text, often overly long-winded and tedious.
- the lack of interactivity beyond mashing buttons to make the text go faster (notable exceptions - the ones with actual gameplay in them like Danganronpa etc., and even then Phoenix Wright is painfully slow) or making choices that have an unpredictable outcome (it's not puzzle solving...)
I love flavour text, point and click adventures, all sorts of things that involve reading. I just don't get on with visual novels.
I wouldn't class 13 Sentinels as a visual novel, incidentally - not just because I loved it.
I look forward to your VN interpretation of the best scene in 71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance:
First of all, I don't claim to be anything, I'm just another user in a video game forum. And I wouldn't call that arrogance, it's just that my spare time is scarce and my expectations are high. I apply that same filter to films, books, tv series and all sorts of fiction. Of course I'm sorry if you felt that my post could be read as "all those games you love, I think they suck", that was not my intention. It's just a matter of preferences and taste, everyone has its own and of course I respect yours.it's called arrogance, you should probably know that word if you claim to be a writer.
I see, that makes sense. Sorry if my post came off a bit aggressive. But in a sense, you can compare the best of video games to the best of books, but you have to understand that storytelling has existed in that form for hundreds of years, with video game storytelling only being around for decades. Of course, this doesn't mean you can write off issues. But for example, Novectacle is a very small group of people who are making games at the indie level. This would be like comparing instead the game to a well-liked self-published book or small-publisher book. Just something to think about.
But yes, if you try and compare the story to like, the best books in history, it's kind of hard to equate it. The VN medium is often written for a particular audience, for people who like anime and Japanese games, for example. There are good stories and characters in those mediums, but it becomes clear. A small budget game like House in Fata Morgana wowed people because it's a hidden gem of a game that is much better than what it had any right to be, covering deeper themes and fleshed out main characters that transcend even many of the better video games today, I would say. But of course the format is a barrier for entry, and the style of writing will put people off. It's not for everyone, and I remember this topic came up with someone who didn't like it and was comparing it to, for example, classic fairytales and The Witcher 3. Classic fairytales being an established medium based on folklore in history... and the Witcher 3 being based on a book. Even then I would say it comes down to preference. I prefer Fata Morgana's story and characters to Witcher 3, for example, even if the writing might seem more "adult" or in-line with what people expect from good writing in W3.
Anyway. Of course, you can compare to books, but it's important to understand some points. Visual Novels also tend to have long meandering conversations in scenes, and I can understand if people don't like that style. But that is actually a common way these games work. And when I tried to play another VN with the same format, but one that didn't interest me, I couldn't really keep playing because the story progression is too slow to enjoy when you aren't interested. This is, perhaps, one of the downsides of trying to get interested in a VN.
Yeah, because clearly books and comics are the same and offer the same medium.
Yknow what ? You're right. Why even read stuff, watch movies or play games ? Imagination is even better !
There's nothing for you to say that a book or a comic has a better story, except for that elitist stance you're taking with "lol I prefer to read REAL books" (which then, is kinda ironic to put comic books here as if they were a pinnacle of litterature).
But apart from the story angle, books are limited by the lack of visuals and comic books are limited by interactivity, voice acting and animated visuals.
Honestly, I'd rather just read a book or comic. I get a vastly superior story and I don't have to slog through extremely lackluster bite-sized portions of "gameplay" to get it...
Oh, I forgot. There's one other series of VNs you could try. If you like Vampire: The Masquerade, there are some newer short story VNs released recently that are pretty good. They have pretty decent writing and are better than I expected them to be. I would recommend checking them out, and they don't seem to meander nearly as long as others do. They also have pretty great art and music.I think you're entirely correct in this statement. Truthfully, it seems that VNs with limited interaction and the aforementioned meandering conversations just really aren't my cup of tea. I'll always give them a shot, as I'm always interested in new media and the like, but I'll try to take it with a grain of salt from now on. Perhaps part of my problem with FM was the sunk cost fallacy. I find it much harder to put down a VN I'm not enjoying that I've paid a premium for (as is the nature of the medium) then a book that I've been able to purchase relatively inexpensively, which may have compounded my dislike of the title.
No worries about the tone of you post either, I just saw it as someone who was passionate about the medium. I'm glad the story touched you, more power to you! I'm quite envious actually, as I wish it did the same to me.
All Star Superman, The Killing Joke, Watchmen, damn near anything Donny Cates writes for the Thor books, Siege, etc., IMO are much better than Fata Morgana, which is REALLY good writing itself...I've readed many books and comics/mangas that don't stand a chance to Fata Morgana.
I don't know why people always use this 'argument' to why VN's are bad.
Oh, I forgot. There's one other series of VNs you could try. If you like Vampire: The Masquerade, there are some newer short story VNs released recently that are pretty good. They have pretty decent writing and are better than I expected them to be. I would recommend checking them out, and they don't seem to meander nearly as long as others do. They also have pretty great art and music.
They are Vampire: The Masquerade - Coteries of New York, and Vampire: The Masquerade - Shadows of New York (Shadows being a sequel to the first, and is loosely connected, so it's good to play Coteries first).
Of course, they won't blow you away, but they do manage to touch on some interesting themes, and even if, for example, the first game leaves a little bit too much untied, the story experience is still pretty good.
I like most everything Uchikoshi, Takumi Nakazawa and Ryukishi07 work on. The House in Fata Morgana was great, Code: Realize was surprisingly a lot of fun, 428 and Machi are ludicrously enjoyable, etc.
I'm sloooooooooowly going through Muv-Luv at the moment, and that's fun too, despite being paced like molasses.
... As for semi-recent, well-regarded stuff I didn't enjoy: Raging Loop. Super slow and with a laughably bad ending.
This is an extremely dumb and nonsensical reaction to what I said, and doesn't even make sense comparatively. A VN primarily offers a story and visuals to accompany it, and does not have to offer much else to BE a VN. 99 percent of the things it adds does absolutely nothing for it's primary offering. A comic book, manga, manhwa, etc., offer the exact same thing. And contrary to what the guy above you said, there was literally nothing spectacular about the puzzles in Ghost Trick and is a prime example of what I mean by "lackluster gameplay"...
But speaking of imagination...
Where was the bolded implied? Comics do offer superior writing, and provide visuals. That's the basis for comparison. There is no "elitist" mentality, Visual Novels just fail to provide anything new or exciting over what's already there, based on the reality that I have years of experience with each. The fact that there are people mentioning Ace Attorney here as a VN despite the director being very implicit that it's not speaks volumes about the fanbase's desperation to put the genre in a more agreeable light...
"Limited by lack of interactivity" is the biggest reach I've read from you yet. Exactly how is descriptive literature LIMITED because they don't have someone deciding the looks of things for you? And what would interactivity even bring to the table (despite the fact that Choose Your Own Adventure books have existed for DECADES longer than Visual Novels)? Audiobooks literally have voice acting as well. If animated visuals, voice acting and a soundtrack were the draw, I could literally get a much better experience watching an anime...
You seem extremely desperate to justify your obsession. I didn't knock you for liking what you like. Go argue with somebody goofy enough to take you seriously...