This is by far the more destructive result of that film. Such a shame Advent Children wasn't the film they released instead. It wouldn't have made millions, but it certainly wouldn't have cratered the company.
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Xenogears 2 Didn’t Happen Because of FF: Spirits Within – Monolith Soft President Sugiura [Update: Xenosaga art not drawn by Soraya Saga]
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JRPG critics said their games were just movies with buttons so they doubled down? Lol 🤷♂️
The issue isn't just the movie. It's that Sakaguchi and the Square president decided the only way forward was to make Final Fantasy the only series to invest into going forward. No more mid-budget games, no more new IPs. If any game had to be made, it had to be Final Fantasy in name.
It didn't work because a business willingly closing off various revenue streams to focus on one is bound to get slammed when the remaining stream dries up.
It didn't work because a business willingly closing off various revenue streams to focus on one is bound to get slammed when the remaining stream dries up.
There's no reason for them to buy the other Xeno IPs considering they have Xenoblade and the creative talent on payroll. If Takahashi hasn't revisited those themes its because he isn't interested.
Yeah.. that movie is Square biggest mistake ever and not talking only financially, it changed the company forever.
What a way to end a golden era they just had with the PS1 generation.
What a way to end a golden era they just had with the PS1 generation.
To be fair PS1 FFVII was also hubris at the time, but it actually paid off
There is clearly a huge market for CGI movies. I kind of agree with Square taking that chance on Spirits Within.
It didn't work but having a movie business can really expand your reach in all areas. They could have become the Disney for Asia if they pulled it off.
It didn't work but having a movie business can really expand your reach in all areas. They could have become the Disney for Asia if they pulled it off.
Definitely. It got to their heads that they could make lightning strike at will
10.4.2001
Square back then released Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Parasite Eve, Vagrant Story, Mana series, etc. Still, Sakaguchi didn't have the power to decide that sort of thing, he wanted to do Chrono Trigger 2 and Square executives said no.
Hironobu Sakaguchi wanted Chrono Trigger to evolve in a series 'like a Final Fantasy'
Final Fantasy creator and Chrono Trigger designer Hironobu Sakaguchi wanted Chrono Trigger to "evolve into something like a Final Fantasy" in terms of serialization, the Mistwalker founder said...
www.polygon.com
A ton of what ifs can happen in this industry based on many decisions. Say The Spirits Within didn't happen, that doesn't necessary guarantee a better result. I mean Square already cut the budget of the original Xenogears due to the truncated 2nd disc in terms of content.
A lot of people love the first Xenoblade for instance. There is no guarantee if Xenogears 2 did happen it would have ultimate lead to some thing along the lines of Xenoblade coming out. Keep in mind when Wada took over as CEO in 2000 which that point The Spirits Within was already well into production and planning since it came out 2001.
Not that I expect an alternate what-if Monolith Soft not happening being a front runner for Square to put that in place for major development over an FF game. Series like Mana and SaGa which had a small degree of prominence during the SNES and PSX era were still put aside in favor for Final Fantasy in terms of budget and development resources. Something on the scale of Xenoblade happening under SE's oversee, just seems unlikely, especially since Takahashi didn't have the same free reign finishing the first Xenogears that he basically got when developing Xenoblade.
The above link with Sakaguchi wanting to make Chrono Trigger into it's own franchise is fairly telling of Square putting FF front and center above other projects in less emphasis on mid-tier IPs.
A lot of people love the first Xenoblade for instance. There is no guarantee if Xenogears 2 did happen it would have ultimate lead to some thing along the lines of Xenoblade coming out. Keep in mind when Wada took over as CEO in 2000 which that point The Spirits Within was already well into production and planning since it came out 2001.
Not that I expect an alternate what-if Monolith Soft not happening being a front runner for Square to put that in place for major development over an FF game. Series like Mana and SaGa which had a small degree of prominence during the SNES and PSX era were still put aside in favor for Final Fantasy in terms of budget and development resources. Something on the scale of Xenoblade happening under SE's oversee, just seems unlikely, especially since Takahashi didn't have the same free reign finishing the first Xenogears that he basically got when developing Xenoblade.
The above link with Sakaguchi wanting to make Chrono Trigger into it's own franchise is fairly telling of Square putting FF front and center above other projects in less emphasis on mid-tier IPs.
Interestingly, Parasite Eve is another title that was developed thanks to the FF movie venture.10.4.2001
Square back then released Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Parasite Eve, Vagrant Story, Mana series, etc. Still, Sakaguchi didn't have the power to decide that sort of thing, he wanted to do Chrono Trigger 2 and Square executives said no.
Hironobu Sakaguchi wanted Chrono Trigger to evolve in a series 'like a Final Fantasy'
Final Fantasy creator and Chrono Trigger designer Hironobu Sakaguchi wanted Chrono Trigger to "evolve into something like a Final Fantasy" in terms of serialization, the Mistwalker founder said...
Spirits Within, FFIX, Parasite Eve (and Animatrix's "Final Flight of the Osiris") were all made at Square USA.
Yep. People can say whatever they want about the obvious influence of Evangelion on Xenogears, but I think it's unquestionable that the Xenogears ending is way more satisfying.
I will never understand "anime" as a criticism. Anime's a medium, not a genre. Studio Ghibli's anime but you don't see that being criticised for its medium.
Xenogears is clearly an anime-inspired game, its cutscenes were traditionally hand-drawn in an anime format and the story itself was heavily inspired by Neon Genesis Evangelion, an anime. If you want to criticise it or any of the other Xeno series, then take issue with the gameplay or story.
Can't they just pull a Kingdom Hearts and reverse engineer those games?
For Kingdom Hearts, they at least still have the original programmers employed at the company.
Stuff like Tobal, Ehrgeiz, Bushido Blade however... these weren't developed inhouse by Square.
Wait a second, are they working on this again? I see they KINDA updated since they have a picture of Rex in the Disc 2 page. :O
It's basically the same as "I don't like indie games" (and saying that X doesn't count because reasons).
I said it before, the statement of "being too anime" has pretty much lost all meaning in regards to criticism, especially considering some of the greatest of all time RPGs, notably Chrono Trigger and Suikoden II can be criticized for the same reason.
It might as well be a complete nothing statement at this point.
It might as well be a complete nothing statement at this point.
Exactly, NGE and XG are very similar and equally amazing. But Xenoblade is a more mature and evolved project, I remember Takahashi saying his evolution as a director and the balance between story and gameplay.
Chrono Trigger was good in spite of the DBZ artstyle, not thanks to it.
And Suikoden looked hardly anime in-game
OP
OP
Sure did. It's been a while...
Technically, they are no longer updated since 2012. Author has gone missing ever since.
Square was in the wrong place at the wrong time with Spirits Within. They were essentially John McClane (but less cool).
Man, they really got high on their own supply following their string of successes in the '90s. And to its credit for the time that movie looked state of the art.
Too bad everything about it was just awful. And Square never should have taken such an insane gamble.
Too bad everything about it was just awful. And Square never should have taken such an insane gamble.
I feel this is a bit off. The film wasn't that disastrous to Square in and of itself. While it may have possibly delayed greenlighting projects like Xenogears 2 they would have recovered.
The bigger issue was Wada using the failure of the film to oust Sakaguchi and change Square's focus.
The bigger issue was Wada using the failure of the film to oust Sakaguchi and change Square's focus.
All of the Xenoblade games have revisited those themes. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 especially dives back into the gnosticism and psychological themes and even pays heavy homage to scenes and plot points from Gears and Saga.
"hardly anime" doesn't mean much if it's just to say "I liked its artstyle".
Suikoden was "anime", like nearly every JRPG out there. That term really doesn't mean much outside of "I don't like it" when you say "too anime".
That's just the first game obviously, there's more fidelity later on (and it gets more "anime" too).
Or well, I guess games like Dragon Quest and similar aren't anime either.
Man, I saw that shit in the theatre at the height of my Square love and it was a clear mess out of the gate.
If not for that Sony cash infusion b...
If not for that Sony cash infusion b...
On its own it wasn't, but before it everyone thought Square would become the videogame equivalent to Lucasfilm who could take their successful IP and turn it into a multi-media juggernaut like Star Wars. The film's failure made everyone realize that wasn't going to happen, and Square's massively inflated stock price crashed and never recovered to this day. You can see how the Square side of Square Enix is still largely risk averse even today.
I don't believe that. Both Xenogears and Evangelion are heavily inspired by western science fiction. Both were clearly heavily inspired by Asimov's Childhood's End. The villain of Xenogears is even named Karellen, after the main character in Childhood's End. Anno and Takahashi were both clearly big scifi fans. Anno even got the name for the Human Instrumentality Project in Eva from an obscure short story series called The Instrumentality of Mankind. It's less than Xenogears was inspired by Evangelion and more than Anno and Takahasi were inspired by the same material.
Yup, couldn't agree more. :(
And to top it all off we lost Sakaguchi and gained Wada.
Xenogears is one of my top 10 JRPG's of all time, so this news sucks; however, I never understood why Spirits Within bombed so badly. I saw it in theaters when it came out, and it was pretty good? It even got good critical reviews if I remember. Was it really just because Final Fantasy fans were salty it wasn't based on one of the existing games? In fact, I'd argue Spirits Within is the BEST Final Fantasy movie Square Enix has ever released based on the franchise.
Let's not get crazy here. They still made CGI movies after that and nothing's really changed in quality.
