Raider34

Banned
May 8, 2018
1,277
United States
Game Pass is excellent I love Ea Access as well, what I don't like is the fact that I gotta buy the same skins for 3 different kids on Minecraft they need to fix that where if the home Xbox has it then all of the family accounts have the same items that is my only complaint other than that Microsoft is good money with me.
 

JimmyJacking

Member
Oct 28, 2017
414
The value is absolutely there if you look at the raw numbers.

But in some way I remain doubtful that Gamepass is a long-term solution when it comes to developers making money. The numbers just don't add up in my mind.
I guess there's big value in exposure and a guaranteed amount of player numbers/MAU's, but I can't see how you can divide a 5$ a month sub between the dozens and dozens of games and come up with everything in the black. I predict that games launching on Gamepass will have to come with a host of additional revenue streams to offset the missed profit from selling a 60$ boxed copy. Once Xbox starts cranking out big AAA marquee games again hopefully next-gen, I don't see how the business model stays upright. Maybe the games will adapt to the service model, we'll see.

Still, if I owned an Xbox One i'd certainly be on Gamepass just for the raw number value alone. It's a steal.

Compared to say going to GameStop/EB and grabbing second hand copy where the Dev gets $0? Taking TR for example, I'm sure the bean counters in square have done the math - seen their game is now going through the 2nds market and said there is move value getting the $xxx per install or this $yyy Lumpsum from MS with the exposure and potential customers for DLC than leaving it to the retailers.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,700
100%. A buddy recently wanted to get back into gaming, hasn't had a console since PS2. I suggested a PS4 because of a few stellar games like God of War and Horizon, but he was interested in picking up a few shooters and a few sports games all at once. All told it was hundreds of dollars in game's.

Instead he went with an Xbox and via EA Access he got Battlefield, FIFA, Madden, NBA, Titanfall, the entire Dragon Age and Mass Effect series, Star Wars.... for US$30/year. That's *insane* value. A true instant game collection catering to varied tastes.

He ended up having a better console (X), with far more games, for less money than the original plan (Pro + 4-5 AAA games easily totaling US$250 or more)
 

Greatest Ever

Banned
Aug 25, 2018
609
To say I've been "ignorant" because I haven't mentioned your platform of choice is extremely harsh. I didn't include mobile gaming, does that make my opinion ignorant?

Not everyone wants to tweak settings, does this make my opinion "nonsense"? I've owned a PC for many many years and even on the higher end, I've had to tweak settings of some sort. Not everyone wants to do that. For those that do and have the money, you'll get incredible value from gaming on PC.

The price of an Xbox One X doesn't come close to being able to invest in a brand new PC in my opinion. Yes you don't need a 2080ti to match it's performance, but if you talk of "investing" you'll want to at least make this investment future proof to some extent which means spending a little extra.
You're ignorant because you overlooked an objectively more valuable, complete system, yes, and the other two consoles offer way more as far as software goes which is what you play on the systems and what sells them. Mobile is a bad strawman, focus on what I'm saying.

"Not everyone wants to tweak settings" is a stupid argument because:

1) It doesn't take long
2) You don't have to do it
3) Chances are the settings you put even a half-decent PC at will be better than modern consoles.
4) Those settings actually offer options beyond simply resolution and performance mode

A $500 Xbox One X will run most games at a gross 30 frames per second while not being the PS4 or Switch where there is no better place to play them, and it is just a few hundred dollars away from a very good PC. And I will keep saying this: A PC SPECCED TO BEAT OR MATCH CONSOLE PERFORMANCE AT A PRICE IS A BAD PC. That's not what the strengths of the system are. Investing is literally what it means in any hobby; you pay more to get a more valuable option. Value is something that will last longer and give you better experience every time you play it. Future-proofing is literally buying PC within itself since its library stretches back and forth multiple generations with much fewer publisher stipulations. You assume you have to spend "a little extra" when a 970 was doing better than consoles back in 2014 at $330, and a 1060 has been one of the best values at $350 or so for modern 1080p, and a used 980ti is $200 and will still run laps around consoles while giving you the option of playing at 60 or higher FPS. You don't have to invest a lot extra to get a lot out of PC. A $700 PC will be much more valuable for many more years than a $500 Xbox One X, all while allowing you to upgrade specific parts at a much lower price than consoles are afterward.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,599
Texas
Yeah, even though Gamepass is undoubtedly dope as hell, the best value is definitely on PC. Origin Premiere, Humble Monthly, CDKeys, GreenManGaming, Steam sales, GoG sales... The list goes on. It's the only place where you can pick up dozens of great games for a dollar or less, with no monthly fee. My 5 year old, $1,000 PC is just starting to show its age (getting CPU limited on games like Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Anthem's demo, having to run them triple buffered at 30fps; GPU is fine at 1080p with high settings for the most part). The more one invests up front, the longer it lasts, and if one tallies up all the savings I've reaped through the myriad storefronts and subscriptions, along with not paying $50 a year to access my own internet, I've easily eclipsed the incremental cost of the PC over a console, while playing most games at much better settings than the consoles.

That said, I own all of the consoles, too, and pay for both PS+ and XBL (which I should cancel), so I'm not actually saving any money on online paywalls. My multiplatform purchases are entirely on PC outside of competitive shooters, and I use my consoles only for exclusives and CoD. I also upgrade my PC far more often than I really need to, and I plan to build a new PC around when the new Ryzen CPUs release. I'll probably buy a whole new PC without scavenging anything from my current build so I can put it in a dedicated space for VR. Even for how much I spend on PC parts, the insane deals you can get on relatively new games (some up to 50% before launch) easily pays for my indulgence before I upgrade again.
 
Last edited:
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
Yeah, even though Gamepass is undoubtedly dope as hell, the best value is definitely on PC. Origin Premiere, Humble Monthly, CDKeys, GreenManGaming, Steam sales, GoG sales... The list goes on. It's the only place where you can pick up dozens of great games for a dollar or less, with no monthly fee. My 5 year old, $1,000 PC is just starting to show its age (getting CPU limited on games like Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Anthem's demo, having to run them triple buffered at 30fps; GPU is fine at 1080p with high settings for the most part). The more one invests up front, the longer it lasts, and if one tallies up all the savings I've reaped through the myriad storefronts and subscriptions, along with not paying $50 a year to access my own internet, I've easily eclipsed the incremental cost of the PC over a console, while playing most games at much better settings than the consoles.
PC can be a great value, but it has a much higher barrier to entry.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,599
Texas
PC can be a great value, but it has a much higher barrier to entry.
It doesn't have to. A hundred or two extra bucks up front for a PC that performs similar (if not better) than a console isn't some insurmountable sum of cash. That money will be saved within a year, easily, if not a few months. $50 for PS+ or XBL, coupled with an average of $10 saved per game (a conservative estimate) gets you there in a year or so if one buys a game every other month.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
It doesn't have to. A hundred or two extra bucks up front for a PC that performs similar (if not better) than a console isn't some insurmountable sum of cash. That money will be saved within a year, easily, if not a few months.
You can routinely snag an X1S for $200 with a game. The OS alone to get into PC gaming will cost around $100 and if someone is just getting into PC gaming, they're probably not already going to have a copy. So, between that and the actual hardware, it'll set you back a lot more than $200.

I've personally built over 1000 custom PCs, so I'm very aware of what goes into them. I worked at a custom PC shop building, selling, and fixing them while in school.

Additionally money is not the only barrier to entry.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
You can routinely snag an X1S for $200 with a game. The OS alone to get into PC gaming will cost around $100 and if someone is just getting into PC gaming, they're probably not already going to have a copy. So, between that and the actual hardware, it'll set you back a lot more than $200.

I've personally built over 1000 custom PCs, so I'm very aware of what goes into them. I worked at a custom PC shop building, selling, and fixing them while in school.

Additionally money is not the only barrier to entry.
Isn't windows 10 free? Plus most people already have a PC so you can piece meal upgrades over time. Yes it is more up front for a PC usually.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
Isn't windows 10 free? Plus most people already have a PC so you can piece meal upgrades over time. Yes it is more up front for a PC usually.
No, Windows 10 is not free.

If you have an ok starting point, yes you can upgrade a bit at a time and that can help, but knowing what to upgrade to and what is compatible with your existing hardware is an absolutely massive barrier to the average person.
 

Babadook

self-requsted ban
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
192
It's currently just the opposite for me. Xbox is the least value and the least important platform for me. PS4 would be the best value. It has better games and the hardware is a better value as well. Game pass is not worth it. Backwards compatibility isn't something that interests me either.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
No, Windows 10 is not free.

If you have an ok starting point, yes you can upgrade a bit at a time and that can help, but knowing what to upgrade to and what is compatible with your existing hardware is an absolutely massive barrier to the average person.
Not a lot of people have no copy of windows 7 or 8...

While you can no longer use the "Get Windows 10" tool to upgrade from withinWindows 7, 8, or 8.1, it is still possible to download Windows 10 installation media from Microsoft and then provide a Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 key when you install it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,192
Not a lot of people have no copy of windows 7 or 8...

While you can no longer use the "Get Windows 10" tool to upgrade from withinWindows 7, 8, or 8.1, it is still possible to download Windows 10 installation media from Microsoft and then provide a Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 key when you install it.

I have no idea if this is true, but you're proving his barrier to entry point.
 

AmFreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,543
No, Windows 10 is not free.

If you have an ok starting point, yes you can upgrade a bit at a time and that can help, but knowing what to upgrade to and what is compatible with your existing hardware is an absolutely massive barrier to the average person.
You can get a Win10 key for <10€ off ebay.
You can also start with a (used) pc at any level.
Old Pc hardware basically gets thrown at you.
There is a reason consoles are first world devices.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
You can get a Win10 key for <10€ off ebay.
You can also start with a (used) pc at any level.
Old Pc hardware basically gets thrown at you.
There is a reason consoles are first world devices.

Those keys are usually fake, so not a great choice. (Fake as in they'll work, but not a legit copy)

Hardware isn't completely forward compatible. Meaning a mobo in an old system can't just take the latest and greatest CPU, RAM, GPU, or SSD. So you get to a point where you have to replace all or most of those things in one go.

And again, knowing what can be reused or how to upgrade a box you've got is a massive barrier to entry for the average person.

Go through all that, or drop $200 on an X1S and just plug it in and go.

The difference in barrier to entry is a big deal breaker for the majority of gamers. I try to help my friends build their own PCs, but not everyone has a friend in the know.
 

AmFreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,543
Those keys are usually fake, so not a great choice. (Fake as in they'll work, but not a legit copy)

Hardware isn't completely forward compatible. Meaning a mobo in an old system can't just take the latest and greatest CPU, RAM, GPU, or SSD. So you get to a point where you have to replace all or most of those things in one go.

And again, knowing what can be reused or how to upgrade a box you've got is a massive barrier to entry for the average person.

Go through all that, or drop $200 on an X1S and just plug it in and go.

The difference in barrier to entry is a big deal breaker for the majority of gamers. I try to help my friends build their own PCs, but not everyone has a friend in the know.
They aren't fake, the sell of them is probably not legal, but they aren't fake.
You can also get a Win7 Key for 25€ from a retailer, use it to upgrade to 10 or stay at 7.
If you buy or build a used pc for 100-200€ you aren't in there to get the "latest and greatest".
You have to have a board from the stone age to not be able to use an actual gpu or a ssd and you don't need DDR4 to play games, DDR3 is still wiedly available (you can even still get DDR2).
There is a whole world outside the "west", a world that plays mainly on pc, despite having (much) less money (and yes ofc it's more "work").
 
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DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,599
Texas
They aren't fake, the sell of them is probably not legal, but they aren't fake.
You can also get a Win7 Key for 25€ from a retailer, use it to upgrade to 10 or stay at 7.
If you buy or build a used pc for 100-200€ you aren't in there to get the "latest and greatest".
You have to have a board from the stone age to not be able to use an actual gpu or a ssd and you don't need DDR4 to play games, DDR3 is still wiedly available (you can even still get DDR2).
There is a whole world outside the "west", a world that plays mainly on pc, despite having (much) less money (and yes ofc it's more "work").
Yep. Between the "it's so expensive" and "you have to tinker constantly" narratives, coupled with the magical hardware degradation that supposedly takes place with PCs but not with consoles, it's crazy how many myths propagate on an enthusiast forum.

Regardless of upfront cost, even at double the price the cost will be recouped in savings within a few years at most. I'm not sure how it's either debatable or controversial to claim that the platform that is most prevalent in marginal and growing economies provides the best value. Saying such doesn't take away from the very real and good value of GamePass and Origin Access on the Xbox.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,131
Depending on what you're into I'd still say PC, even if you factor out expensive hardware.

Even if you just have a basic laptop or something, there are still thousands of great games you can play. You get unfiltered indie gaming (for better or worse), most indie games you can get DRM-free which means you actually own them, you get more or less 30 years of backwards compatibility, many popular games like Fortnite and Overwatch run on Intel HD graphics. All you really miss out on without a mid-range dedicated GPU are current-gen AAA games.

I would only say consoles are the better deal if all you care about are the most recent AAA games. And in that situation, then I'd say Xbox is the overall better platform for multiplatform games, between the Xbox One X, Game Pass, EA Access, and Xbox Live's set of features.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
I'd say that if you don't have a PC and are interested in a wide variety of games, Game Pass is absolutely unmissable.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
Compared to say going to GameStop/EB and grabbing second hand copy where the Dev gets $0? Taking TR for example, I'm sure the bean counters in square have done the math - seen their game is now going through the 2nds market and said there is move value getting the $xxx per install or this $yyy Lumpsum from MS with the exposure and potential customers for DLC than leaving it to the retailers.

This isn't about underperforming games though. Tomb Raider done made it's boxed retail sales and is likely now just sitting on shelves. The next AAA Halo game might be a conventional ten million seller, at that point it would make way less financial sense just giving it away to millions for pennies.
 

Epilexia

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,675
I think that Gamepass offers the best service if you are a curious person who loves video games.

With 99 bucks per year, you will have every month a nice curated selection of games, so you can try new experiences.

But I see Gamepass as playing demos.

At some point, the games will disappear.

And it generates me anxiety to be forced to complete a game, with the urgency of knowing that I only have a limited number of months.

While it's a great service, and something that complements the other options offering something innovative in the market....

At the end, I'm more comfortable purchasing games that I will own for the rest of my life.

And giving that I'm mostly interested in indie titles and these tend to have great sales, with the same investment I can build a library that will fulfill all the time that I can spend playing video games, and which I can play for the years to come.

The last month I purchased 'Hollow Knight' in Switch for 10 bucks, and I will be able to play the game at any time, without worrying about this disappearing from the service.

This month, for 10 bucks I can get 'Crypt of the Necrodancer' and 'Dandara' in Switch, enough to play this month.

But for people with a tight budget and not too much time for following prices and discounts, specially if they are interested in big productions, I think that Gamepass makes of Xbox the most desirable ecosystem.

Other thing is that I'm worried about the long term viability of this system for small studios.

I have started to see a worrying trend of when a small game like 'Wargroove' is released, people asking if this will come to Gamepass, or saying that they will wait to see if this will eventually come to Gamepass.

When Sony introduced the Playstation Plus free games, and they started giving indie games for PS4 every month...

In the long term, this destroyed the viability of Playstation 4 as a healthy ecosystem for indie releases.

Only served to devaluate small games, creating the same problem that with the bundle culture on PC.

Like, looks at this nice title... I will wait until this is bundled on PC for a buck, I will wait to see if it appears in Playstation Plus, I will wait to see if it's released in Gamepass.

I think that Microsoft will put a lot of effort in the next generation, trying to get the leadership as the ecosystem to go for indie developers, as we can see with the recruitment of Damon Baker.

But I'm not fully convinced that this can be achieved with a model like Gamepass, that as always happens with these things, it will not have the same effect in triple A productions.

Mostly because these big productions are intended as game as services with online functions, so Gamepass will have the contrary effect, increasing the sales.

But for small titles?

Now a very few titles will benefit from this, obtaining a good paycheck.

Until in the long term, this devaluates all the indie games, and only the ones available in Gamepass have a chance of making some money.

And when this day arrives and the only way of recouping the investment in a small production is to be available in Gamepass, and with every publisher wanting their games on the system... this will also reduce the paycheck.
 

Moose the Mooche

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
Agreed. Its a great comeback and a strong set-up for next gen. But having an Xbox One alone isnt gonna cut it for me. The exclusives on the other sides are too hot and MS isnt really strong on that this gen if your not a racer.
I love my X as a second console, or even a third, but if it would be my only console i own or owned i would be dissapointed this gen.
 

DannyClash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,468
It's a 2 player house, so gold and game pass go really far to quenching that gaming thirst. Not a complete solution but great value for some

I really dislike all subs(no other subs in life, mobile is pre paid) but I charge the box up
 

Tetrinski

Banned
May 17, 2018
2,915
I think that Gamepass offers the best service if you are a curious person who loves video games.

With 99 bucks per year, you will have every month a nice curated selection of games, so you can try new experiences.

But I see Gamepass as playing demos.

At some point, the games will disappear.

And it generates me anxiety to be forced to complete a game, with the urgency of knowing that I only have a limited number of months.

While it's a great service, and something that complements the other options offering something innovative in the market....

At the end, I'm more comfortable purchasing games that I will own for the rest of my life.

And giving that I'm mostly interested in indie titles and these tend to have great sales, with the same investment I can build a library that will fulfill all the time that I can spend playing video games, and which I can play for the years to come.

The last month I purchased 'Hollow Knight' in Switch for 10 bucks, and I will be able to play the game at any time, without worrying about this disappearing from the service.

This month, for 10 bucks I can get 'Crypt of the Necrodancer' and 'Dandara' in Switch, enough to play this month.

But for people with a tight budget and not too much time for following prices and discounts, specially if they are interested in big productions, I think that Gamepass makes of Xbox the most desirable ecosystem.

Other thing is that I'm worried about the long term viability of this system for small studios.

I have started to see a worrying trend of when a small game like 'Wargroove' is released, people asking if this will come to Gamepass, or saying that they will wait to see if this will eventually come to Gamepass.

When Sony introduced the Playstation Plus free games, and they started giving indie games for PS4 every month...

In the long term, this destroyed the viability of Playstation 4 as a healthy ecosystem for indie releases.

Only served to devaluate small games, creating the same problem that with the bundle culture on PC.

Like, looks at this nice title... I will wait until this is bundled on PC for a buck, I will wait to see if it appears in Playstation Plus, I will wait to see if it's released in Gamepass.

I think that Microsoft will put a lot of effort in the next generation, trying to get the leadership as the ecosystem to go for indie developers, as we can see with the recruitment of Damon Baker.

But I'm not fully convinced that this can be achieved with a model like Gamepass, that as always happens with these things, it will not have the same effect in triple A productions.

Mostly because these big productions are intended as game as services with online functions, so Gamepass will have the contrary effect, increasing the sales.

But for small titles?

Now a very few titles will benefit from this, obtaining a good paycheck.

Until in the long term, this devaluates all the indie games, and only the ones available in Gamepass have a chance of making some money.

And when this day arrives and the only way of recouping the investment in a small production is to be available in Gamepass, and with every publisher wanting their games on the system... this will also reduce the paycheck.
How do you explain then that, over the last few months, more and more small indie developers have chosen to launch their game on Gamepass from the first day?
 

Epilexia

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,675
How do you explain then that, over the last few months, more and more small indie developers have chosen to launch their game on Gamepass from the first day?

It's explained in my post: because now, the paycheck is big, and giving that there are not so much indie titles, it's a great opportunity to obtain visibility, obtaining sales in the rest of systems.

I was talking about the effects in the long term, if you have taken the time to read my complete post.

In its first years, Playstation Plus was also a great way of obtaining an extra income for indie developers.

But in the long term, it ruined the healthy of the whole ecosystem for indie titles.

In the next couple of years, only the developers which are selected for Gamepass will benefit from this, while the others will see reduced their sales on Xbox, with the people waiting for the game maybe appearing in Gamepass.

And when it's clear that the only secured way of making a small title profitable in Xbox is via Gamepass, the number of indie games each month will be increased. And with more titles, the paychecks will be also reduced. And the visibility factor will disappear from the equation, with more games competing for the attention.

Same process that we saw with the bundle culture on PC: the first indie bundles served to rise the popularity of the games curated, making to their creators millionaries.

But in the long term, devaluated the whole indie scene on PC, and making bundles is no longer a good idea to generate a profit or obtaining visibility.

The same thing can be said of Playstation Plus.

So there are two historical precedents to be skeptical about this.
 
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VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,007
Europe
Once Xbox starts cranking out big AAA marquee games again hopefully next-gen, I don't see how the business model stays upright.

This.Game Pass business model basically dictates type of games made for it.AAA day 1 games on Game Pass would have to be something like Destiny/Anthem with strong mtx monetization model.I just don't see how can AAA single player game on $10/month service day 1 be profitable at all.
 

upinsmoke

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,566
Sorry OP you don't speak for me.

I own every current console including a gaming PC and for me (key word me) Xbox One X is the least value for money. That being said I still enjoy it loads. So just to break it down aside from the initial outlay on the hardware I've played FH4 via gamepass, Sea of Thieves, state of decay 2. Ryse also. Those literally being the only games that appealed to me on that service. The last 3 were horrendous but I'm extremely glad it didn't cost me more aside from the monthly gamepass fee. So that's FH4 that's only been value for money but it says alot when I didn't resub even though I enjoyed FH4. Crackdown doesn't appeal to me. I play fortnite and apex legends on ps4, free to download and free to play online, factually better value than paying for Xbox live. I have more friends online on ps4 and steam. Why would I play 3rd party online games on Xbox when I have less friends on that platform? That's not value for money is it, paying for a service where I have no friends, ok I could make friends but why when I've already got hundreds across other platforms. Maybe if MS put out something worth playing online that I couldn't play on other platforms I'd make more friends on Xbox. Just a thought...

Anyway it's all good you consider Xbox the best value but I don't.
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
940
Fixed it for you and let's be honest, Japan is no longer the pinnacle of gaming it once was. Portable gaming is still very popular but not consoles or the PC.

How many copies does a game have to sell to not be considered "niche"?

You're right though. I'm an RPG fan and I can't play the games I love on the Xbox. Some of those games happen to sell 2 million plus copies, but some of them certainly won't. Really looking forward to Trails of Cold Steel I-III this year for example.

I think the problem is value is subjective but the thread title has a very definitive tone. To me a good value is the ability to play everything I want on one system.

As far as Japan not being the pinnacle of gaming...I don't know man. The two biggest platforms in the world are both Japanese. Almost all of the games I play are Japanese developed. If anything it's undergoing a renaissance since 2017.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
Yeah it's definitely the most bang for your buck.
How so? Again most in this thread do not even know what "Value" means.

You can literally get away with just buying an Xbox plus Gamepass and you are set... no lies detected OP.

You can literally buy a PS4 (Or PC or Switch) and you're all set...no lies detected. Value is different for everyone. I'd rather VR, PS now's library and VR with Sony's stellar first party , all are better value imo.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Yeah, even though Gamepass is undoubtedly dope as hell, the best value is definitely on PC. Origin Premiere, Humble Monthly, CDKeys, GreenManGaming, Steam sales, GoG sales... The list goes on. It's the only place where you can pick up dozens of great games for a dollar or less, with no monthly fee. My 5 year old, $1,000 PC is just starting to show its age (getting CPU limited on games like Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Anthem's demo, having to run them triple buffered at 30fps; GPU is fine at 1080p with high settings for the most part). The more one invests up front, the longer it lasts, and if one tallies up all the savings I've reaped through the myriad storefronts and subscriptions, along with not paying $50 a year to access my own internet, I've easily eclipsed the incremental cost of the PC over a console, while playing most games at much better settings than the consoles.

That said, I own all of the consoles, too, and pay for both PS+ and XBL (which I should cancel), so I'm not actually saving any money on online paywalls. My multiplatform purchases are entirely on PC outside of competitive shooters, and I use my consoles only for exclusives and CoD. I also upgrade my PC far more often than I really need to, and I plan to build a new PC around when the new Ryzen CPUs release. I'll probably buy a whole new PC without scavenging anything from my current build so I can put it in a dedicated space for VR. Even for how much I spend on PC parts, the insane deals you can get on relatively new games (some up to 50% before launch) easily pays for my indulgence before I upgrade again.
PC is not an environment that alot of gamers want to deal with, the overhead needed as opposed to console is a significant detractor amonst other things, also the amount of hoops gamers need to jump through in order to get a console experience can be avoided just by picking up a console, plugging it in and let it take care of itself. Just have to read through replies here on Era's take on it: https://www.resetera.com/threads/pc-gaming-is-awesome-why-arent-you-doing-it.11023/

Fact is, on launch of Xbox Scarlett, you can take home a shiny new powerful console, plug it into your TV, and play launch games for whatever is the Gamepass fee. And launch is when you get multiple first party games. That is value that really cant be offered by others (as of yet).
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,509
This.Game Pass business model basically dictates type of games made for it.AAA day 1 games on Game Pass would have to be something like Destiny/Anthem with strong mtx monetization model.I just don't see how can AAA single player game on $10/month service day 1 be profitable at all.

A single game doesn't have to be profitable. As long as the service is profitable (or, more likely, gaining a lot of traction) the games have done their part.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
This.Game Pass business model basically dictates type of games made for it.AAA day 1 games on Game Pass would have to be something like Destiny/Anthem with strong mtx monetization model.I just don't see how can AAA single player game on $10/month service day 1 be profitable at all.

I'm sure Xbox has crunched the numbers which is more than anyone in this thread can do.
 

Deleted member 4518

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I'm sure Xbox has crunched the numbers which is more than anyone in this thread can do.
That's for sure. They know what they're doing and I'm sure there's some benefit to the program that isn't transparent to consumers. Plus, they've said before that games State of Decay, Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon 4 have all sold really well too.
 

giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,303
Seoul
If Xbox keeps on this path, and PS5 isn't backwards compatible with the PS4, I'll switch back to the Xbox brand on a dime. Hell, if Microsoft offers must-have exclusives at a rate of a few a year, I'll buy it even with a PS5.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,966
This.Game Pass business model basically dictates type of games made for it.AAA day 1 games on Game Pass would have to be something like Destiny/Anthem with strong mtx monetization model.I just don't see how can AAA single player game on $10/month service day 1 be profitable at all.

How could a 150M movie be profitable on Netflix at all. The fact remains that the average gamer buys, what, 1 or 2 60 dollars games a year. The biggest games like Spiderman sold 10M copies and their is nearly 100M PS4's out there. The averages are already pretty poor for AAA games. Having a steady stream of money from a larger pool of people is what keeps the service profitable.

How is O365 profitable when it cost 10 bucks a month compared to 300-400 bucks for the suite? More people buy into the cheaper option.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Maybe if you are all about quantity instead of quality.
I'd rather pay a bit more and get the best games.
That said, with PS+, regular PSN-deals and all the F2P games PS4 already offers more than I could ever play.
 

CosmicSea

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Feb 5, 2019
502
I'm sure Xbox has crunched the numbers which is more than anyone in this thread can do.
Like they crunched the numbers on an always online console with kinect? I get your point but companies make big mistakes all the time, not saying Gp is one, it isn;t clearly, just playing devils advocate here. Companies are not infallable, quite the opposite.
 

Deleted member 17402

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Oct 27, 2017
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Does Xbox have an official symmetrical-stick controller? This is the only thing that ever holds me back from considering the Xbox platform because I despise its current controller.
 

Greatest Ever

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Aug 25, 2018
609
PC is not an environment that alot of gamers want to deal with, the overhead needed as opposed to console is a significant detractor amonst other things, also the amount of hoops gamers need to jump through in order to get a console experience can be avoided just by picking up a console, plugging it in and let it take care of itself. Just have to read through replies here on Era's take on it: https://www.resetera.com/threads/pc-gaming-is-awesome-why-arent-you-doing-it.11023/

Fact is, on launch of Xbox Scarlett, you can take home a shiny new powerful console, plug it into your TV, and play launch games for whatever is the Gamepass fee. And launch is when you get multiple first party games. That is value that really cant be offered by others (as of yet).
For full functioning adults that pay taxes, can drive cars, have families, it's amazing how the premier form of the hobby is somehow too complicated or hard to deal with or has too many hoops.
PS: there isn't. That thread is full of lame excuses for simply saying "I don't want to."
 

CosmicSea

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Feb 5, 2019
502
For full functioning adults that pay taxes, can drive cars, have families, it's amazing how the premier form of the hobby is somehow too complicated or hard to deal with or has too many hoops.
PS: there isn't. That thread is full of lame excuses for simply saying "I don't want to."
Yep exactly, PC is as easy and simple as it has ever been.
 

Greatest Ever

Banned
Aug 25, 2018
609
Those keys are usually fake, so not a great choice. (Fake as in they'll work, but not a legit copy)

Hardware isn't completely forward compatible. Meaning a mobo in an old system can't just take the latest and greatest CPU, RAM, GPU, or SSD. So you get to a point where you have to replace all or most of those things in one go.

And again, knowing what can be reused or how to upgrade a box you've got is a massive barrier to entry for the average person.

Go through all that, or drop $200 on an X1S and just plug it in and go.

The difference in barrier to entry is a big deal breaker for the majority of gamers. I try to help my friends build their own PCs, but not everyone has a friend in the know.
$200 to play at 720p when 4k TVs cost $300 and better alternatives exist for those titles, okay.

I mean, sure, you get what you pay for. Just get a PS4 at that point.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,833
For full functioning adults that pay taxes, can drive cars, have families, it's amazing how the premier form of the hobby is somehow too complicated or hard to deal with or has too many hoops.
PS: there isn't. That thread is full of lame excuses for simply saying "I don't want to."

For some people videogames shouldn't be as complicated as 'paying taxes, driving cars, having families'...

For some people videogames are like maintaining your own car - something to tweak, to 'work on' etc.

Different strokes for different folks. Different types of gaming are best for different people.