I imagine that they are updating the console to handle the server side issues better. Not sure why that's incredible.
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[Windows Central] This weekend's Xbox outage put Microsoft's DRM back in the spotlight
- Thread starter Deleted member 93062
- Start date
- Microsoft
I imagine that they are updating the console to handle the server side issues better. Not sure why that's incredible.
I tested Outer Wilds, Recore and Voodoo Vince Remastered, all digital titles I own.
I downloaded them, made sure there were no updates queued and then turned off the Xbox. Turned off the internet, started the Xbox, which is my home Xbox and went into the settings to go offline.
Then tried launching them and they all worked.
Not saying that people don't have issues (we already know the problems with BC titles and cross-gen smart delivery titles + grace periods of Game Pass games), but these three games worked, despite being BC titles and digitally owned, thus should be requiring an online activation according to the Microsoft quote in the article.
Because every engineer and architect has to be perfect. People might die if their gaming boxes fail to work for a few hours or days because of a perfect storm of server issues.
Thanks Bede-x, appreciate you testing and posting your results. At this stage I'd be really interested if someone did manage to find a game that requires online activation first.
Incredible that it took this long to actually deal with the god awful attempt at DRM they have in place.
I don't think the update is going to address the requirement to connect online when setting the console up or allow you to use BC discs offline without needing to pull the config file down first.
If it's a console update I suspect it's as pg2g suggested, better handling on the console itself of failure states so that auth/licence server issues are handled better and you can still play your games without needing to take the console offline manually.
At this point, anything they do, even half arsed, is a win compared to how it was last week and the weekend.
Xbox needs to get its shit together in regards to DRM... this is not acceptable, especially for people who are still specifically buying disc versions of their games.
What a silly thing to say. This isn't about missing out on a weekend of play or a couple of hours. It's about a very consumer unfriendly, and unfair way of doing drm. If I bought and install the game on my system, then it should work regardless of any server side errors. That's the bare minimum, making excuses for these ultra rich companies isn't going to fix it. And I'm sure they'll be fine because they got a couple of semi-negative articles.
Quite frankly they right thing to do would be for them to start working on a solution. But as long as people are there to excuse, and defend them, it'll become less likely.
We're talking about one of the two biggest and richest companies on the planet. Who make a console that has had this exact potential issue for nine years, and hasn't done jack shit about it.
A problem that their two competitors in the console market, both far smaller and less wealthy companies, do not have with their consoles.
When you buy a game that doesn't need an internet connection, it should work literally anytime you choose to play it, no exceptions.
We pay money for these consoles and games, money that people work hard for. These consoles and games are not free.
I don't know why people downplay and dismiss other people who are upset when things like this happen.
I wonder if this is related to how they allow you to download games you don't have a license for (to allow, for example, in anticipation of them going onto Game Pass).
Of course, for any digital purchase you have to download it, so hopefully they can update things to make it so if you own the game it also downloads the license, whenever you download any digital game.
Of course, for any digital purchase you have to download it, so hopefully they can update things to make it so if you own the game it also downloads the license, whenever you download any digital game.
I hear what you're saying but Playstation does have similar issues. Right now I can't play Ratchet and Clank on my PS5, a game I own digitally, because I was experimenting with how long the game sharing grace period is before it won't let me play any more (less than 12 hours is best I have right now). Going online will allow me to play until an outage/I go offline.
Unless something's changed (and I welcome corrections), if your PlayStation cannot verify licences in certain scenarios it will pop up an alert advising that it will close the app/game you're using in 15 minutes. During the last PSN issues I had several notifications about the licence for Ratchet and Clank (sadly I can't recall the text fully so can't be sure if it would have closed my game or not).
Both consoles have DRM. Both consoles can stop you from playing games you own if they cannot validate licences, this is especially relevant if you game share or play on a non-primary/home system.
The area where Xbox DRM is markedly worse, and where focus should be directed, is that it requires an online connection to set up the console and BC discs require a config file to be downloaded before they can be used (I believe those same BC discs work fine offline on the console they are native to). Sadly it's unlikely that either of those 2 things will be fixed in this patch.
Disc preservationists also have beef with the fact Xbox Smart Delivery discs often contain the Xbox One game and therefore need to download the Series X version which is different issue.
For the most part these gaming systems work quite well most of the time. Nobody is purposely denying people access to their games, and yet people go right to unreal levels of screaming instead of understanding that none of this is perfect. Should these issues be addressed? Maybe? Teams have backlogs and they prioritize what they work on. Sometimes that means that an issue will continually be kicked down the road because level of effort and relative customer satisfaction just does not meet any kind of threshold for it to be prioritized.
It is frustrating, especially for the consumer, but product development is by no means perfect. I'm not trying to apologize for these giant corporations, but I do have many years in both product and service development. We are all human and I guarantee nobody is out here laughing about the sometimes unfortunate side effects of architectural and feature choices. We just do not always have the resources or executive sponsorship to fix some of these issues.
Did you ever download and play these games before? The licenses likely stay on your console even if you delete the game.
Pretty weird that none of your tests are able to replicate what others are experiencing and what is being reported on.
I mean, just look at two posts above yours.
I'm glad they're looking into a fix because yeah, there's a lot of stuff I've bought and forgot to ever launch because it was on sale.
Bill Gaitas reset his system, this likely reset his licences, no surprise they need to get them again. Not sure if there's any other post you're referring to?
I also posted steps to recreate what I'm seeing, try it yourself like Bede-x did, this is repeatable. I have a game running right now on my offline home console that has never been played whilst the console is online. It's been running for almost 3 hours now. I would very much like to know what's going on (Temp licence? Xbox contact misremembered something? Don't actually need to go online to use offline games?)
Yeah, I also have an XSX but I dont really have any games outside of Game Pass that I didnt already install or play before. I'm not about to buy a brand new game I never played before to test this, lol. And I have no idea how Game Pass downloads would work as far as anything DRM related.
Whatever the case I agree with this:
c'mon jroc74 I dropped £3.19 on Relicta, someone else needs to join in and validate this! :D (you could always refund it after, just sayin'...)
All you are proving is that some games might either:
- download the license together with the game and thus don't need an initial license check or don't need a license check at all when first launching them
- won't run unless you download the license upon your first game launch
You even admit that the license is missing and the game is not launching because of that. That is the core issue at hand here.
I can understand that downloads of games you have not purchased shouldncome with a license and require an online check in first, but there's no excuse why you shouldn't get a license when downloading a game you have bought without first launching it.
At the same time you again muddle the waters by conflating this issue that is happening on primary home consoles without account sharing to your account sharing Ratchet & Clank test just to "prove" that other consoles have issues too. Why even bring this up again when it's obviously not the issue at hand here?
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You do realise that the test was specifically because the WC article states
That's not *some games*, that's not *5 games*, that's implicitly implying all games. Which clearly isn't the case. Do us both a favour and test it yourself and come back with results, I'd love to hear of a game that works like the article suggests.
The other person I quoted literally tested that scenario and couldn't launch the games. Why not ask them which games they tested?
The other person you quoted reset their system and invalidated their licences. Please, go do the test yourself.
I see you edited some more into your posts, I can address that for you.
It'd be a bit unusual if this varied per game (DRM being a system feature after all) and so far I've not come across a game that does work like is being reported. Is the reporting wrong? Is there a subset of games that don't need online check-in after download? Are temp licences issued for all games and expire after X hours?
What console can I reset and keep my digital licences for without needing to re-install/re-download licences/games? I have most of them, I'm happy to test.
That's the point I was making! Right now I can get valid licences for Xbox games when downloading games *without* having to launch it first. That's explicitly contrary to what's being reported on how it works.
It'd be a bit unusual if this varied per game (DRM being a system feature after all) and so far I've not come across a game that does work like is being reported. Is the reporting wrong? Is there a subset of games that don't need online check-in after download? Are temp licences issued for all games and expire after X hours?
I can't say for sure, but it's very likely that I've played these games this generation. I originally played them last generation and what usually happens, when I get a new system with features like on Xbox, I wanna test things out, to see how they run. For instance I got a Steam Deck some weeks back and have already tested 100+ games on it, to see how they work.
It's very likely that I've downloaded these games before to test them at the beginning of the generation and if the licenses stay on your system even when deleting a game, they would still be there.
I did some further testing, once again downloading the games, checking that there were no updates queued for them, turned the Xbox off and shut down the internet. I then turned the Xbox on and went into the settings to go offline. Once again these are games that it's very likely, I've had downloaded and tried this generation, with the exception of Gods Remastered, as that was the only game I own, I knew for certain I hadn't downloaded. I purchased it not too long ago, when it was cheap and there was talk about it being removed from online stores. Results when I tried to launch them:
Super Lucky's Tale, Crash Bandicoot 4, Lococycle, State of Decay Year One, The Surge, Thimbleweed Park, X-Morph Defense and Gods Remastered all worked. Eveything could be launched offline, even Gods Remastered that had never been played or downloaded before.
I'm not trying to say there aren't issues or that we shouldn't be asking Microsoft to fix any issues, I just tested these specific games to see how it worked out.
It would be interesting to see more people test this, so we can get to the bottom of what works and what doesn't. How it seems to work, but based on far too little testing and mostly what people are saying:
1)360 and original Xbox titles don't work if you aren't starting them online, because they need the emulation wrapper and have to download the game, even if it's a physical version. Microsoft could show a lot of good will here and demonstrate they actually care about preservation, by making the wrappers available to download, for people that don't want to be online, similar to how they provide the option of downloading system updates to a USB stick.
2)Xbox One titles need a configuration file and thus need to be online, the first time they boot, according to Microsoft in the article, but that hasn't been my experience. Even Gods Remastered worked, as noted above, which I had never downloaded previously.
3)Some smart delivery titles have issues, because there aren't room for both versions of a game on the disc, so you need to download the rest.
I don't have time to test more this week and will be slow too respond, but it would be interesting to see, what other people's tests show.
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Again, we're talking about Microsoft. They most certainly have the resources to ensure that this never happens.
OP
OP
Im sure they'll figure out exactly what happened this weekend and fix it. I'm sure they're not happy with not just the negative press but they probably lost millions of dollars in sales and microtransactions that couldn't be completed
Thanks again for testing Bede-x, I wasn't sure if this was repeatable on other consoles when it initially worked for me. I agree, more folks should repeat the test, it's working differently to the way it's been reported it should. That's not a bad thing by any means but it'd be useful to know if there are games that do have to be launched online first and whether they are a majority or minority.
So far out of 16 games tested, none require to be launched online before they are playable offline including games that have never been played by the account before.
Oh I'm sure they will. They're pretty responsive when they want to be. I was just responding to the insinuation that Microsoft of all companies might not have the resources to fix something like this lol.
I tested four games just now:
Star Wars Battlefront (Xbox)
Lego Star Wars 3 (Xbox 360)
Limbo (Xbox 360)
Timesplitters 2(Xbox)
These are games that I have never downloaded before on my Series X and certainly never played on it.
All four games started up fine without any issues.
So yeah, I'm not sure this thing of games needing to be launched online once is accurate.
Star Wars Battlefront (Xbox)
Lego Star Wars 3 (Xbox 360)
Limbo (Xbox 360)
Timesplitters 2(Xbox)
These are games that I have never downloaded before on my Series X and certainly never played on it.
All four games started up fine without any issues.
So yeah, I'm not sure this thing of games needing to be launched online once is accurate.
That should literally not be possible without an internet connection since they need the emulation wrapper as described a few posts earlier. Sure you weren't online when booting the games?
Nope, I was definitely offline. I'm guessing the emulation wrapper was included in the download.
Makes sense. That stipulation is exclusive for the disc versions then.
Just tested a couple games I've never played before, Omega Rally Championship, which is a Xbox One game, and Indiana Jones & the Emperor's Tomb for the Original Xbox. Indi loaded up just fine, but Omega Rally asked me to go online.
Thanks GlitchyDegree. Can you confirm if the console asked you to go online for Omega Rally or whether the game asked you to go online?
The console. This was the message I got after being booted to the home screen.
Brilliant, thank you. Can I confirm this is the game in question?: https://www.xbox.com/en-gb/games/store/Omega-Rally-Championship/9N4WNPWRCK47The console. This was the message I got after being booted to the home screen.
Thanks, how weird that the first one that requires online activation is a self published indie.
I'll pick that one up myself tomorrow.
So I decided to test some games by installing from disc.
I installed from disc
Ninja Gaiden Black (Xbox)
Jedi Outcast II (Xbox)
Darksiders (360)
Deus Ex Human Revolution (360)
All four games started without issue while offline without any issues. I didn't need to start them online first.
I installed from disc
Ninja Gaiden Black (Xbox)
Jedi Outcast II (Xbox)
Darksiders (360)
Deus Ex Human Revolution (360)
All four games started without issue while offline without any issues. I didn't need to start them online first.
I was actually tempted! 😁 we could definitely do with some clarity on things.
OP
OP
Should get an Xbox by November and would be down to test some things out if you want 😂
I believe these all worked, because nothing actually comes from the disc in this case (BC titles). The disc just initiates a download from the server, and then the disc serves as its own drm afterwards.
The reason I assume Xbox One (and beyond) discs are different, is because before the policies were reversed, the system was always designed to pull a license to play from the server which would then be good for the next 24hrs before needing to be renewed. This was how you'd be allowed to play without the disc inserted in that old design. When the policies were reversed, it seems part of that implementation still remains. I'm guessing you launch the game, it connects to the server and sends the same information it would have before, and instead of receiving a license that says "ok, you can play this for 24hrs without the disc" it now receives one that says "ok, this disc is legit, you can use it on this console indefinitely".
I'd imagine the patch for this would simply be to do this auth step as part of the installation process... though you'd still be screwed if you were offline at the time you were looking to do the initial install. It's probably not something they can now easily remove entirely, as each disc is probably unique and it may not have another means of determining it's not a copy.
EDIT: Should make it clear that this is all me guessing based on what we know. I don't actually know how the system works.
Figured out why this one can't be played offline, the developer was kind enough to respond to a review on the store in 2020 explaining that the game is a "Creators Collection" title (where you turn a retail Xbox into a dev kit) and is a Windows Universal App. These have limitations placed on them such as not supporting achievements and crucially, cannot be played offline.The console. This was the message I got after being booted to the home screen.
Any other Universal Window Apps will also have the same issue. I believe these are primarily self published indies available via the Windows Store integration rather than fully-fledged game releases on the Xbox store.
The search for any Xbox game that does require an online activation before being played offline continues! Big thanks to The Hobo and GlitchyDegree for testing their games.
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Your theory gets completely disproven since you can install and play xbox one games on an xbox one when offline.
Ah, can you? Fair enough then. I didn't own any discs that gen, so didn't realise that