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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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You should probably double check who the post you're quoting is responding to before you start spewing a conspiracy theory.
What are you even talking about? Your prediction is not only wrong, it's insane. You think the left has suddenly become some kind of puritanical anti-sex party because people are complaining about low-brow sexism in vidya?
Your reality where asking for a bit less objectification of half the audience leads to a logical conclusion of an unelected totalitarian cabal of leftie regulators running the media, deciding what gets made and burning your tax dollars is a bit different to mine.
'We can't change a thing in case extremist left-wing media fascists get too much power and take over' is a bit of an extreme reaction to reasonable criticism from some consumers to content creators.
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Wait, this isn't the goal? Then why did you guys hire me to make this mind control device? And the army of lizardmen?
Shut up, they're on to us! The first rule of the mind control plan is...
...
...
... [jrpg reference for Morrigan ]
... yes master
http:///eM9c.gif
Yeah. I don't think anyone will be topping this one.
Do you have anything to back this up or are you just making baseless assumptions?
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I'm actually the chief propaganda minister of the left.
Unfortunately by 2050 all games will be Gone Home.
Unfortunately by 2050 all games will be Gone Home.
Quickly everyone, into the safe space! For now we must spread cultural Marxism and turn men into betas by denying them their video game crotch shots and bikini armour from the shadows. CICUU is onto us...
This is actually a really englightening statement? How did you ever think of such a thing?
Between this and the guy that would elect Charles Manson over a Democrat, I just don't even know what's going on today...
Thank God for CICUU. You daredevil internet libertarian, willing to endanger yourself by denouncing this ignominious cultural marxist complot. It is my hope to now see this thread promptly locked and every third wave feminist expelled from the forum, moderators included, as God and the Free Market intended.
I...honestly can't tell if this is serious are not.
The sad thing is that it is getting harder and harder to tell if people are being serious or joking unless it is REALLY obvious.
I feel sorry for the people who put so much effort into summarising the arguments that appear in these threads now. Good luck squeezing that into the handy OP list.
'false equivalence'
'vote with your wallet'
'censorship bad'
'sex-negative'
'leftist anti-democratic media regulation subjective reality conspiracy'
'false equivalence'
'vote with your wallet'
'censorship bad'
'sex-negative'
'leftist anti-democratic media regulation subjective reality conspiracy'
When the left takes over, 99% of the characters in your thread are gonzo.
just saying
Well shit. Next time I'll have to bust out the thesaurus I guess.
Great satire post, or evidence that CICUU needs a "come to god" moment?
You know what? They should find a way to include it on the list just to show how ridiculous these arguments have gotten. Don't forget:
*literal declaration of a woman's body as an object*
*finding a word that a person thinks is used incorrectly then focusing solely on said word*
This is a very accurate description...of what the craziest people on the right think those on the left are trying to do. Unfortunately, the actual reason why the right dislikes regulation/oversight has been made abundantly clear during the past few years.
Sorry if you were joking, its just getting genuinely hard to tell at this point.
True. Also:
*there are those who're just as uncomfortable with the nonsexualised and more prudish portrayals.*
I can understand the your point, thanks for clarifying. I thought you were just having a go at someone without actually having a go at them. Also thanks CannonFodder52 for pointing it out to me.
Oh boy
Sorry, I know this is a few pages too late, but I'd like to clarify my opinion. I'm not making an argument for realism, I just would like options to customize female characters to make their armor (or other attributes like size) identitical, similar to, or comparable to the male counterparts. I'd like to make strong female characters that wear armor without boob plates. In Skyrim, the game I was referencing, you have to mod it to get those options. The developers including these options in the first place wouldn't seem any more difficult than designing completely new models of armor with boob plates or boob windows. More options is good, right? I'm not arguing for taking away anything.
Well, at least he's consistent. On racism:
These counter arguments to the thread get wilder and wilder each time I have a chance to check in. I look forward to the post unironically calling you all lizard people or something tomorrow afternoon.
Easiest ignore ever. Back to the discussion.
I got what you meant :)
On the listening part, definitely. I struggle with this in a discussion forum setting because silence can be interpreted as supporting the status quo. So there is a need to speak up and say, "hey, this is not OK and not what we do anymore." But I have to remind myself of the dangers of becoming too enthusiastic and well-meaning, of co-opting the discussion to making it about OUR awareness, OUR enlightenment. No. In the end, it's not about men and what we think. It's about creating a platform for those who aren't being heard and then getting the hell out of their way. It's about giving up the power we inherited from an unjust system and being OK with that. These are hard things to do, but it's vital that they be done. It's the only way things can move forward.
I got what you meant :)
On the listening part, definitely. I struggle with this in a discussion forum setting because silence can be interpreted as supporting the status quo. So there is a need to speak up and say, "hey, this is not OK and not what we do anymore." But I have to remind myself of the dangers of becoming too enthusiastic and well-meaning, of co-opting the discussion to making it about OUR awareness, OUR enlightenment. No. In the end, it's not about men and what we think. It's about creating a platform for those who aren't being heard and then getting the hell out of their way. It's about giving up the power we inherited from an unjust system and being OK with that. These are hard things to do, but it's vital that they be done. It's the only way things can move forward.
How could someone even provide proof for such a bizarre prediction, lol.
I'll grant you, I personally would sign up for this future.
If you get a job and clean your room and eat your vegetables, I'll approve one Senran Kagura game. But you can't have hentai until you move out and manage to be a productive member of society [as arbitrarily and nontransparently defined by me].
It would be like if there was an ESRB. Wait, how did that become a link??
Wait is this it? Finally! Someone who gets it! RIGHT HANDERS UNITE IT'S TIME TO PURGE THE LEFT HANDED FROM OUR...wait no nevermind.
To universally condemn slavery yet to universally condone the objectification of the human body almost seems contradictory. Many would outright declare your claim to be absurd. The problem is in identifying the scope of artistic expression we can accept as a society. For example, did the pursuit of artistic expression in constructing the pyramids justify the use of slavery? Does the pursuit of artistic expression in creating video games today justify perpetuating sexist attitudes toward women?
I believe the answer to both of those questions is no. It's not easy to weigh individual freedom versus its social costs for a society as a whole. This is one of the central problems in the theory of justice which Rawls, Sen, and others have worked to understand. But to put all weight on artistic freedom denies the costs of that freedom to those it harms. This tradeoff is why it's important to discuss what level of sexualized character designs we can tolerate socially and how much is too far. This matters because going too far negatively affects the lives and freedoms of women in specific and people in general.
I am all for using technology and science to pursue a post-corporeal or post-human world. I agree with your view on bodies as pseudorandom avatars. I would also not contest that legally, depicting the human body in any form is in the public domain. But when the outcome of social interactions is to limit, arbitrarily, what people with certain bodies are able to do, then it's worth considering, in the immediate term, what can be done about that.
This is really what it comes down to.
Even in a perfect world where every human gets to have whatever body shape they want (even to the point of going beyond natural human constraints), I'd still find it plenty creatively bankrupt to force all peoples of certain body types into certain specific roles without fail. If nothing else, it's just boring. After a certain threshold it becomes rote and repetitive, and who really wants that? Once you get to the point where you can guess all the twists because they've reused the same ones time and time again, there's just no engaging with it.
We should be aware of these things because ultimately, we're just looking to make better and more interesting games. Not always defaulting to the same generic brunette male protagonists with the same generic sexy lady counterparts is a good step towards that.
Edit: Oh, right, that's not even mentioning the fact that many games with character creation don't even allow you to make humans outside of very specific constraints - the vast majority of character creators only let you make beefy guys and generically sexy ladies, which just totally defeats the purpose of letting you choose in the first place! It's especially infuriating for me, as someone who has a definite preference towards inhabiting a body that's much more on the androgynous side - the number of games that actively support my choice is close to nil. It's such a depressing reality it's constantly dragging down my mood every time I think about it.
Even when devs try to give people options, we just end up with more of the same. It's sad.
This, so very much this. Everything from hairstyles and makeup options to choice of clothes is so often gender segregated. It's as if David Bowie never existed D:
Asking for more option, that's nice for sure, who can say no to more option? But today making new option of clothes not easy as old days, I mean 600 polygon vs 60.000 plus high quality shader and textures... More options indeed makes everyone happy like giving option for who wants sexy clothes for any gender and option for who don't like being sexy in every situation. This makes everyone happy but developers have no magic wands to make every possible in a game, you know you need time and money to make these options and in today this is much harder than old days because of graphic fidelity. So for making happy who likes sexy females character in every fucking game and in every fucking situation or who don't like, you have to take away somethings to make other things. But i also wonder why womens can't wear identitical armor as like males ones, nothing needs to change, i think they can do this without so much work at least as a option like you said.
Buw developers sometimes must do a decision about to satisfied some specific audience than everyone for minimum risk. I'm seeing some womens and mens (including me but i'm not buying day one unless there is no good regional price because i can't.) from here saying how bad is making only sexy females with absurd sexy clothes in mainstream games but they are still buying these games because this makes happy, even with the bad parts, they are fun. This is really sad situation and hope we will solve this.
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