Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."

[kyorii]

(NieR Automata Ending A Spoilers)

Nier Automata: Ending A (1080p 60fps)

Subscribe for more! ⇨ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdaluuQuE5GoOlULA2PGKmA?sub_confirmation=1☆ Nier Automata Ending A, the first ending, in 1080p and 60f...

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This scene, for example, particularly shocked me because it's the first ending you get, so the last picture of the game you see before the credits roll the first time is literally 2B's panties (around 5:40).

I don't doubt that the story itself of the game is interesting, or that the characters are well written, but I really can't understand those design decisions or why Square Enix allow it. It just breaks the immersion! I mean, it's hard to keep a straight face when looking at that last picture from the first ending you get in Automata...

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Ok, thats a heck of a stretch. There are male gaze cameras and this wasn't it. In fact if you want to get technical, the very last shot was a super zoomed out view of both 2B and the Robot. Shes like a tiny pixel at this point.

 

[Sesha]

Talking about boobs in reptiles...

They carry poison...

It's from XCOM2 btw.

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Imagine spending 10-30+ years of your life learning art, and these are the designs you come up with. Tho it's possible the overall direction is to blame and they just did what was asked, in which case I feel bad for the artist having to come up with this banal shit.

 

[Village]

Imagine spending 10-30+ years of your life learning art, and these are the designs you come up with. Tho it's possible the overall direction is to blame and they just did what was asked, in which case I feel bad for the artist having to come up with this banal shit.

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I feel like that's kind of a shitty perspective. If someone wants to draw booby snakes , its not a waste. They chose to put boobie snakes in the world. If you don't like it feel free. But trying to put a narrative on some you dude you don't know who maybe just wanted to make boobie snakes is weird.

I think its a bit healthier to be more critical of the thing itself in this respect and the culture around why this thing exists. Rather than suggesting the person wasted their time

 

[grand]

1.The ending isn't even the same Character as the one you're writing about.

The Laphicet that was with us the entire game becomes a Dragon god, he doesn't end up in an embrace with anybody.

2. The game spends more time hinting that Velvet may have had feelings for Arthur then it does anything with Laphicet. Her teasing his embarrassment and wanting to take care of him is not the same thing as romance at all.

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When I first played Berseria I also thought Laphicet's and Velvet's relationship could get kind of weird. After replaying the game last year, I don't think so anymore. It's clear Laphi loves Velvet in that way, but Velvet only loves him as a brother. If someone sees their relationship as creepy I can see it, as I misinterpreted it that way even myself, though. There are times throughout the game where there are some lines that are clearly meant to bait people who could ship them, and obviously that is kind of gross.

Also, the poster above is completely right. The character in the end you are talking about is a completely different Laphi lol.

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Without defending some of the other stuff in Berseria, isn't the ending showing

Spoiler

both of them perpetually devouring each other?
As I remember, it's not a platonic or romantic ending. It's two monstrous beings spending eternity with each feeding off the other to prevent either of them consuming anything else.
The way it's visually framed is still pretty dubious, but I wouldn't exactly call it a lover's embrace; more straight-up horror.

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I'm aware of the narrative justifications for it (and referenced it previously) but I'm not swayed by the story's narrative excuses. Laphicet's body being possessed by an ancient evil while his actual spirit becomes a literal 1000 year old dragon doesn't mean much when the ending imagery is that powerful. It's also set up by 60+ hours of sex/attraction jokes and shipping fuel. But the most damning piece of evidence is one of the credit images that I didn't post:

That's actual Laphicet overlooking Velvet & (other?) Laphicet having a weirdly romantic cliffside moment before transitioning directly to actual Laphicet returning to the real world & becoming the 1000 year old dragon. That scene's existence shows that Laphicet was either a part of the ending dreamscape or was cognitive of it. It also means that the dreamscape was either something they were both a part of (rather than a hypothetical alternative history) or a reveal of Velvet's ideal existence & thus showing that she reciprocated Laphicet's feelings. Either way, it becomes very hard to view their relationship as strictly platonic. Namco didn't have to spend so much of the narrative pairing them up like this or have such strong ending imagery. But they did anyway.

Also, I doubt we'd be having this discussion if the genders were reversed and the game spent 60 hours playing up a romantic connection between an older man & young girl. Imagine if the ending credits were instead of a naked 19 year old man embracing their naked 10 year old niece-sister-daughter: no one would be taking the narrative at face value and trying to view the ending credits in a platonic fashion.

 

[Yata]

Berseria Ending Talk:

Spoiler

Personally I think you are pushing it if you think that cliffside picture is trying to ship them, and the game can have some really shippy lines so I don't understand why you are dying on that hill. A cliffside is the last place Velvet saw his brother alive before he was killed, and the dreamscape is an ideal existence where Velvet and Laphicet (biological brother) have adventures together like they literally said they were going to do at the beggining of the game. I always interpreted the last scene as them being able to reunite in the afterlife by showing them together in the last place they ever interacted (and Laphicets favorite place) with Phi, now a god, and still in love with Velvet, overlooking them, a dream-like interpretation of the tragic ending of the game. Is THAT supposed to be show Velvet reciprocates the feelings of God Phi to you? She is with a different Laphicet, and they ARE brothers, after all.

What do you mean it shows Velvet is reciprocating his feelings? I am terribly confused.

The character that Velvet ends up together in eternal embrace is not the Laphicet you are talking about. They are treated like two completely different characters throughout the entire game. It's fine if you see the relationship between Phi (spirit Laphicet, if you will) and Velvet as creepy, but I don't agree one of those points of contempt is the ending. That's a completely different Laphicet, Velvet's actual brother.

I do agree the naked imagery was too much and would be interpreted very wrongly if the genders were reversed.

 

[Messofanego]

Ok, thats a heck of a stretch. There are male gaze cameras and this wasn't it. In fact if you want to get technical, the very last shot was a super zoomed out view of both 2B and the Robot. Shes like a tiny pixel at this point.

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The clothes are so tattered up that there are several shots of her panties throughout that ending cutscene. The design pretty much means there will be plenty of panty shots in the game, even if the camera is not trying to bring attention to it. It's embarrassing.

 

[kyorii]

The clothes are so tattered up that there are several shots of her panties throughout that ending cutscene. The design pretty much means there will be plenty of panty shots in the game, even if the camera is not trying to bring attention to it. It's embarrassing.

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Point is he said the very last shot before the credits was seeing her panties. You really don't.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I'm aware of the narrative justifications for it (and referenced it previously) but I'm not swayed by the story's narrative excuses. Laphicet's body being possessed by an ancient evil while his actual spirit becomes a literal 1000 year old dragon doesn't mean much when the ending imagery is that powerful. It's also set up by 60+ hours of sex/attraction jokes and shipping fuel. But the most damning piece of evidence is one of the credit images that I didn't post:

That's actual Laphicet overlooking Velvet & (other?) Laphicet having a weirdly romantic cliffside moment before transitioning directly to actual Laphicet returning to the real world & becoming the 1000 year old dragon. That scene's existence shows that Laphicet was either a part of the ending dreamscape or was cognitive of it. It also means that the dreamscape was either something they were both a part of (rather than a hypothetical alternative history) or a reveal of Velvet's ideal existence & thus showing that she reciprocated Laphicet's feelings. Either way, it becomes very hard to view their relationship as strictly platonic. Namco didn't have to spend so much of the narrative pairing them up like this or have such strong ending imagery. But they did anyway.

Also, I doubt we'd be having this discussion if the genders were reversed and the game spent 60 hours playing up a romantic connection between an older man & young girl. Imagine if the ending credits were instead of a naked 19 year old man embracing their naked 10 year old niece-sister-daughter: no one would be taking the narrative at face value and trying to view the ending credits in a platonic fashion.

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Spoiler

You keep conflating Brother Laphicet and Malak Laphicet throughout your argument that I feel like you misunderstand some plot elements. There's no "one is the body and one is the soul" shenanigans or "one reincarnates into the other" or whatnot between them. They straight up are two different entities altogether who only have the same name. Malak Laphicet is the one having one-sided crush towards Velvet. Brother Laphicet is the one that ends up in that tragic embrace with Velvet.

The imagery of a 19 year old hugging their 10 year old sibling in nude would be super uncomfortable no matter what their genders are. Nevertheless, the reason why people still say that they don't see it as a romantic imagery is precisely because there's never a romantic framing whatsoever between Velvet and Brother Laphicet throughout the entire game.

 

[Dice]

I'm aware of the narrative justifications for it (and referenced it previously) but I'm not swayed by the story's narrative excuses. Laphicet's body being possessed by an ancient evil while his actual spirit becomes a literal 1000 year old dragon doesn't mean much when the ending imagery is that powerful. It's also set up by 60+ hours of sex/attraction jokes and shipping fuel. But the most damning piece of evidence is one of the credit images that I didn't post:

That's actual Laphicet overlooking Velvet & (other?) Laphicet having a weirdly romantic cliffside moment before transitioning directly to actual Laphicet returning to the real world & becoming the 1000 year old dragon. That scene's existence shows that Laphicet was either a part of the ending dreamscape or was cognitive of it. It also means that the dreamscape was either something they were both a part of (rather than a hypothetical alternative history) or a reveal of Velvet's ideal existence & thus showing that she reciprocated Laphicet's feelings. Either way, it becomes very hard to view their relationship as strictly platonic. Namco didn't have to spend so much of the narrative pairing them up like this or have such strong ending imagery. But they did anyway.

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Eh. I don't see it as especially romantic (a sunset might have changed my mind, but this just looks like a nice day). I feel this sorta imagery is used for that ...sorta....um "gaze far off into that 'beautiful future'" type of moment; a final fate ironically denied these two characters (and even the onlooker who's not part of the 'same view'/inclusion as the other two).

I don't think it's a perfect story, and I find the Laphicet person/brother stuff a lot of weird magical hogwash... the nudity I can sorta "get" in trying to capture their calm/spirituality/divinity, but it's still pretty weird to watch for a credit sequence lol.

But for how long and hard Velvet fought, and for the cruel twists of fate along the way, I feel this shot denotes "peace" than romance (with just a touch of unfinished business, since Laphicet's part in the story is still 'active' in Zestiria).

Point is he said the very last shot before the credits was seeing her panties. You really don't.

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lol, I mean.... it kinda is, this is 100% a panty shot because that darn skirt went and got blown up (not her sleeves, of course). If no dude is gonna be posed like that, it's probably because the character in the onesie and blown-up skirt is super hot. ...And 9S is a robot.

 

[kyorii]

Eh. I don't see it as especially romantic (a sunset might have changed my mind, but this just looks like a nice day). I feel this sorta imagery is used for that ...sorta....um "gaze far off into that 'beautiful future'" sorta moment; one more ironically denied these two characters and even the onlooker who's not part of the 'same view'/inclusion as the other two.
I don't think it's a perfect story, the nudity I can sorta understand but it's still pretty weird to watch for a credit sequence.



lol, I mean.... it kinda is, this is 100% a panty shot because that darn skirt went and got blown up (not her sleeves, of course)

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5:58 is the very last shot before credits. Its super tiny. You can say what you want about what shes wearing, I'm not denying that. but what he declared is not the very last shot. The last shot accurately is the two of them zoomed far out amidst the ruined landscspe.

 

[Dice]

5:58 is the very last shot before credits. Its super tiny.

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Okay...I get that. That "FINAL SHOT" you and I posted are like mere seconds apart. You got TheBlackSwordman on a pan-out technicality! 👏
But the point still stands. It ends with 2B's box exposed and facing the screen, and it's not her black box either (ho ho ho).

 

[Famassu]

5:58 is the very last shot before credits. Its super tiny. You can say what you want about what shes wearing, but what he declared is not the very last shot.

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Is this really what you're hanging on to? His argument has merit even if he's slightly wrong about what is the absolute last shot of Ending A. That whole emotional part of the finale is somewhat ruined by 2Bs design that makes it certain you'll see her panties often.

 

[kyorii]

Is this really what you're hanging on to? His argument has merit even if he's slightly wrong about what is the absolute last shot of Ending A. That whole emotional part of the finale is somewhat ruined by 2Bs design that makes it certain you'll see her panties often.

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Well yes, while the assessment is right about seeing her leotard, it wasn't the final shot. Just from memory id remember something as egregious as that if that were the case. I thought for a minute i might have remembered it wrong, so had to correct him there.

 

[Yata]

Spoiler

You keep conflating Brother Laphicet and Malak Laphicet throughout your argument that I feel like you misunderstand some plot elements. There's no "one is the body and one is the soul" shenanigans or "one reincarnates into the other" or whatnot between them. They straight up are two different entities altogether who only have the same name. Malak Laphicet is the one having one-sided crush towards Velvet. Brother Laphicet is the one that ends up in that tragic embrace with Velvet.

The imagery of a 19 year old hugging their 10 year old sibling in nude would be super uncomfortable no matter what their genders are. Nevertheless, the reason why people still say that they don't see it as a romantic imagery is precisely because there's never a romantic framing whatsoever between Velvet and Brother Laphicet throughout the entire game.

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EDIT: Nevermind, rewatched some scenes and you are completely right. Completely different entities! Which is good because it makes this topic less messy, sorry.

 

[BetoJR]

You quoted me and somebody else at the same time...?

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Well, I was replying to grand's post:

Honestly, Velvet's outfit was the Tales Of team being merciful and forewarning people on what to expect.

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I have absolutely no idea what went on with my own post, there. I blame it on the gremlins.

 

[Transistor]

Well, I was replying to grand's post:


I have absolutely no idea what went on with my own post, there. I blame it on the gremlins.

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You have no idea how often I see those gremlins lol

 

[Isilia]

Well yes, while the assessment is right about seeing her leotard, it wasn't the final shot. Just from memory id remember something as egregious as that if that were the case. I thought for a minute i might have remembered it wrong, so had to correct him there.

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Especially where you are, this is a weird thing to defend. The fact it is there at all is awful

 

[Morrigan]

5:58 is the very last shot before credits. Its super tiny. You can say what you want about what shes wearing, I'm not denying that. but what he declared is not the very last shot.

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Good lord this is some obnoxious "well akshually" nonsense. Embarrassing.

 

[Soph]

I tried to play Berseria because ERA was so bullish on it. It's one awful scene after another with terrible mindless combat in between. An absolute sexist turd of a game.

 

[Lost Lemurian]

In relation to the "reptile women with breasts" discourse, Divinity Original Sin 2 manages to do sexual dimorphism without giving its lizards inexplicable mammaries.

Of course, they still walk like this...

 

[Famassu]

The whole incesty vibe of Berseria is still there no matter if the two young boys are technically not the same person.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

In relation to the "reptile women with breasts" discourse, Divinity Original Sin 2 manages to do sexual dimorphism without giving its lizards inexplicable mammaries.

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Oh hey! that looks cool! i wonder...

Of course, they still walk like this...

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Oh.

 

[Famassu]

In relation to the "reptile women with breasts" discourse, Divinity Original Sin 2 manages to do sexual dimorphism without giving its lizards inexplicable mammaries.

Of course, they still walk like this...

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Don't understand why artists have such hard time understanding that it's generally the males who are more showy looking when it comes to dimorphism in animals.

 

[Persephone]

Don't understand why artists have such hard time understanding that it's generally the males who are more showy looking when it comes to dimorphism in animals.

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because women like pretty things and also want to attract men or something -- man who's never spoken to a woman in his life

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I tried to play Berseria because ERA was so bullish on it. It's one awful scene after another with terrible mindless combat in between. An absolute sexist turd of a game.

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I got it on sale and was floored by how consistently bad the writing is. It doesn't help that the world design is godawful and the dungeons are just as bad as Zestiria's.

 

[Chumunga64]

Of course, they still walk like this...

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That's fucking kommo-o!

 

[Lost Lemurian]

because women like pretty things and also want to attract men or something -- man who's never spoken to a woman in his life

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I think most male artists don't study a lot of fashion reference, especially historical fashion, and so they treat physical dimorphism like American/British clothing from the last 100 years. The "men wear generic suits, women wear colorful/ornate dresses and makeup" dynamic gets applied to fur or frills or feathers.

And what's kind of infuriating is how that wouldn't be the case if you looked at clothing from literally any other place and time, where men's clothing also tended toward the ornate and flashy, in many cases more so than women's.

 

[JustTeaThankYou]

I think most male artists don't study a lot of fashion reference, especially historical fashion, and so they treat physical dimorphism like American/British clothing from the last 100 years. The "men wear generic suits, women wear colorful/ornate dresses and makeup" dynamic gets applied to fur or frills or feathers.

And what's kind of infuriating is how that wouldn't be the case if you looked at clothing from literally any other place and time, where men's clothing also tended toward the ornate and flashy, in many cases more so than women's.

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The codpiece era is woefully underepresented

 

[Paroni]

The codpiece era is woefully underepresented

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Few things command masculine authority like a giant sword, fancy pantyhose and high heels.

 

[Lost Lemurian]

The codpiece era is woefully underepresented

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The entire Renaissance period is largely ignored, in terms of clothing designs.

Let me dress like the landsknecht, damnit!

 

[carrot_]

The entire Renaissance period is largely ignored, in terms of clothing designs.

Let me dress like the landsknecht, damnit!

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I NEED a game with these designs now. And it needs to be done totally seriously, too. Imagine a badass edge-lord character wearing something like this. I would die.

 

[Daouzin]

Ok, thats a heck of a stretch. There are male gaze cameras and this wasn't it. In fact if you want to get technical, the very last shot was a super zoomed out view of both 2B and the Robot. Shes like a tiny pixel at this point.

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I felt similarly to you about that sequence. I was like, I don't remember that, and then I watched the time stamped segment and I was a little, like, "really?', but I came away thinking. Damn, gamers, myself included are pretty desensitized to women in gaming and anime dressed this way/portrayed this way. I don't think it's as normalized in other mediums to have character's clothes "damaged" short-handed by making their under garments more visible, although I'm sure you can find examples.

I think the criticism is fair.

I also think it sucks that we're so normalized to it that I get a little annoyed when people are like, "how can you take this seriously?," because I don't find her outfit jarring or pulling me out of the experience at all. Doesn't even cross my mind.

However, my reaction isn't, the way I think and see it, is correct, but rather, damn, this medium has me desensitized to this. At the end of the day I think Automata is a top 5/10 game of all time because how it communicates and subverts expectations with references to other games/video game tropes, but I wish the character designs were less ridiculous so MORE people can experience it and feel what I felt.

It uses our video game knowledge and understanding of "game logic," to communicate a lot of things in a way that made me feel, like, damn, this is a "gamer's game." Like playing video games my whole life resulted in this experience. etc etc. To know a few camera angle fixes and a different character design would have given that experience to more people is kind of a shame. But it is what it is.

TLDR: Don't take the criticism personally. Imagine showing that scene to your mother/female non-gamer with no context, I can almost guarantee they will be like, "why am I seeing this woman's panties?" It's a fair criticism.

 

[AnimaRize]

I NEED a game with these designs now. And it needs to be done totally seriously, too. Imagine a badass edge-lord character wearing something like this. I would die.

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Literally exists already

 

[Servbot24]

Literally exists already

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🤮

 

[carrot_]

Literally exists already

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But where are the frills, feathers, and gaudy colors? 😂

 

[AnimaRize]

But where are the frills, feathers, and gaudy colors? 😂

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You got to remember dyes and colors like that are only for the rich and royalty, the common folk are going to wear more plain colors because that is what is affordable during the Renaissance, like ezio's outfit would stand out greatly even in the Renaissance among the common people.

 

[Isilia]

So I watched this just now. Interesting how we always get those ass shots.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Her ass is an important part of her character.

I forgot Tales of Arise does the Utena pose but het.

 

[Messofanego]

Don't understand why artists have such hard time understanding that it's generally the males who are more showy looking when it comes to dimorphism in animals.

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Right?! What fictional universes are there where male creatures are the more vibrant and showy like it is in the real animal world?

 

[Redcrayon]

So I watched this just now. Interesting how we always get those ass shots.

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So at 0.54 is the sword chap pulling it out of her chest or something? 'Yay' for tropes.

 

[Shining Star]

Her ass is an important part of her character.

I forgot Tales of Arise does the Utena pose but het.

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We call this "the Guilty Crown."

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

We call this "the Guilty Crown."

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Almost no one remembers that show. I forgot it did it too until you brought it up.

 

[Servbot24]

'Yay' for tropes.

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Pardon me being extremely pedantic but there isn't anything wrong with tropes as a concept. They are the building blocks of almost every story and can be used in very creative ways.

Off topic and not what you meant, I know - just a little pet peeve of mine :) I almost always see the term "trope" used as an insult, when really they're nothing to be ashamed of (and are also unavoidable - a 100% original story is borderline impossible to conceive, and even more borderline impossible to make it enjoyable).

Now the specific trope you mentioned... definitely something to be ashamed of, lol.

 

[Shining Star]

Almost no one remembers that show. I forgot it did it too until you brought it up.

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I'm sorry, I should have left you in peace. 😟

 

[Redcrayon]

Pardon me being extremely pedantic but there isn't anything wrong with tropes as a concept. They are the building blocks of almost every story and can be used in very creative ways.

Off topic and not what you meant, I know - just a little pet peeve of mine :) I almost always see the term "trope" used as an insult, when really they're nothing to be ashamed of (and are also unavoidable - a 100% original story is borderline impossible to conceive).

Now the specific trope you mentioned... definitely something to be ashamed of, lol.

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Of course- there's a ton of harmless, fun tropes we use as hobby/genre shorthand too. I should have said " 'yay' for tropes around objectification" instead. As a tedious pedant myself (not that I'm saying you are!) I appreciate the correction :-)

 

[KujoJosuke]

I've been dipping my toes into the Visual Novel waters with Utawarerumono: Mask Of Deception and Mask Of Truth, and it's interesting.

They're both sequels to the original Utawa from 2002, which was a hentai VN with SRPG combat interspersed throughout (rereleases, ports and the remake from a few years ago removed all the porn), but it still had some gorgeous character designs (very Ainu inspired), with a few eye-rolly ones. I haven't played in like 15 years but I remember the h-scenes not really adding anything and were probably added just to make it sell. Anway, for those who don't know, they're games where technologically advanced mainline humanity has died out and is survived by humanoids with slight animal features who have built up their own feudal-era Japan styled society, and then the wars and battles for territory and such that transpire around the amnesiac main characters Hakuowro (original game) and Haku (Mask games). Lots of Ainu (as in the indigenous Japanese people) inspired themes/designs.

I just finished MoD and am working on MoT, and I'm quite surprised by the disparity between the good female designs and the worse ones. MoD/T are still kinda horny games despite not being hentai, with the horniness being pretty few and far between, in the 15 hours I've played of Truth there's only been one egregious scene, but I guess its pedigree can't help itself with some of the designs.

For the good, we've got Kuon, who just looks amazing to me. She has long, warm looking robes that are completely sensible and look like something a real person could wear in a colder climate. Other characters like Rulutieh, Nekone, Anju are all wearing these beautiful elaborate robes as well, with intricate designs and great colors.

Then there's characters like Nosuri, who is wearing a leotard with boob socks, or Fumirul who I can't really describe what she's wearing but it's real dumb, then there's characters like Atuy that toe the line between ok and bad design-wise. Really bad ones are the twins who dress like half-naked dancer types, not good.

Kuon looks great though!

Nosuri not so much



The openings for the Mask games are pretty gorgeous tho.

 

[Shining Star]

I've been dipping my toes into the Visual Novel waters with Utawarerumono: Mask Of Deception and Mask Of Truth, and it's interesting.

They're both sequels to the original Utawa from 2002, which was a hentai VN with SRPG combat interspersed throughout (rereleases, ports and the remake from a few years ago removed all the porn), but it still had some gorgeous character designs (very Ainu inspired), with a few eye-rolly ones. I haven't played in like 15 years but I remember the h-scenes not really adding anything and were probably added just to make it sell. Anway, for those who don't know, they're games where technologically advanced mainline humanity has died out and is survived by humanoids with slight animal features who have built up their own feudal-era Japan styled society, and then the wars and battles for territory and such that transpire around the amnesiac main characters Hakuowro (original game) and Haku (Mask games). Lots of Ainu (as in the indigenous Japanese people) inspired themes/designs.

I just finished MoD and am working on MoT, and I'm quite surprised by the disparity between the good female designs and the worse ones. MoD/T are still kinda horny games despite not being hentai, with the horniness being pretty few and far between, in the 15 hours I've played of Truth there's only been one egregious scene, but I guess its pedigree can't help itself with some of the designs.

For the good, we've got Kuon, who just looks amazing to me. She has long, warm looking robes that are completely sensible and look like something a real person could wear in a colder climate. Other characters like Rulutieh, Nekone, Anju are all wearing these beautiful elaborate robes as well, with intricate designs and great colors.

Then there's characters like Nosuri, who is wearing a leotard with boob socks, or Fumirul who I can't really describe what she's wearing but it's real dumb, then there's characters like Atuy that toe the line between ok and bad design-wise. Really bad ones are the twins who dress like half-naked dancer types, not good.

Kuon looks great though!

Nosuri not so much



The openings for the Mask games are pretty gorgeous tho.

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I loved these games, the story is seriously amazing. I'm glad you are liking them too! Kuon is definitely the best and I love her voice she's great. I think her and Rurutieh have the best designs and I like Munechika and Atuy too. Fumirul's outfit is so confusing I had no idea what I was even looking at at first haha. But the worst is Shis, maybe you haven't met her yet but

What is going on here?? I mean credit to the game for sticking to its art design that gives us some nice characters but then there's stuff like this and Nosuri that's like...no this would be a nightmare to wear and has no purpose at all.

One thing about these games is that while there's a lot of fanservice with the women there is probably even more with the men. Its just very out there all around.

 

[texhnolyze]

But where are the frills, feathers, and gaudy colors? 😂

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The Witcher games have some of those.

 

[RedSwirl]

The Witcher games have some of those.

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The Witcher books had actual Landsknechts.

In any case, is it just me or do actual European game developers tend to stick closer to actual medieval Europe when it comes to art direction for medieval-themed fantasy games? Maybe it's just how the source material in this case -- the Witcher books, pull more directly from mythology and history without going through Tolkien. They still have their problems with how they handle women, but the difference is there.

 

[texhnolyze]

The Witcher books had actual Landsknechts.

In any case, is it just me or do actual European game developers tend to stick closer to actual medieval Europe when it comes to art direction for medieval-themed fantasy games? Maybe it's just how the source material in this case -- the Witcher books, pull more directly from mythology and history without going through Tolkien. They still have their problems with how they handle women, but the difference is there.

Click to shrink...

It's not just you. That's one of the main reasons why JRPG fans prefer JRPGs over WRPGs, because they're stuck in medieval settings. Even when there's a twist, it's usually just added fantasy. There's also sci-fi and post-apocalyptic RPGs, but they're pretty rare compared to medieval/fantasy.