Why most High-Speed Rail lines fail or never take off in the first place.

[Puroresu_kid]

Should be standard procedure for developed nations such as the US.

The idea that you have to fly everywhere to move city to city is ridiculous.

 

[mikeys_legendary]

HSR sounds great in the USA, but how do you get around when you get to where your destination? SF could make it work, but what would it connect to? Bullions would need to be spent in LA to make getting around by train feasible. That's not an easy proposition to make.

You may have more luck with Boston to D.C, as the cities in the Northeast generally have better supporting train infrastructure anyway.

 

[ty_hot]

Your example doesn't make sense in reality, 2 slow trains for 20km plus 1 HS for 300km will very likely take more time than using the car for 300km. Or at least a very similar total time. But costing way more.

HS trains compete against air travel, not with cars.

 

[Kill3r7]

Just imagine how the US would look if the automobile and highway construction lobbies didn't get their way 100 years ago. This IS something that can be fixed but it'll take a loooong time. My home city had a 5 stop LRT when I was a kid and now there's 2 separate lines and 15 or so stops. It took 30 years to get there and a third line is coming up ( 3 years late by the time it's done) with a 4th in the planning stages still but it's happening at least. It'll probably take a century to wean americans off automobiles and make rail , along with high speed rail, more viable.

Click to shrink...

The interstate highway system is a product of Eisenhower and the military. It was built around the idea of moving materiel and troops quickly around the country in case of an attack. It has proved essential to the trucking industry and facilitated the suburban sprawl. Anyhow, once you leave major metropolitan areas the use of cars becomes necessary due to sprawl, convenience and cost. Short of increasing use costs you won't reduce car usage in a meaningful manner.

 

[Kyougar]

Your example doesn't make sense in reality, 2 slow trains for 20km plus 1 HS for 300km will very likely take more time than using the car for 300km. Or at least a very similar total time. But costing way more.

HS trains compete against air travel, not with cars.

Click to shrink...

Because, either you wouldn't own a car, because it is easier, cheaper, and more comfortable to use the public transport system.
Or time doesn't matter because it is still cheaper and more relaxing to use the train.

HSR tickets in Europe are quite affordable if you either buy it in advance or use a flatrate.

 

[Jebusman]

It really is an extremely efficient way to travel, and it doesn't cost that much money (35€ in first class for two trains covering ~350km in total is pretty good).

Click to shrink...

We barely have any train service left in Nova Scotia, and getting between Halifax and Truro, a 100km distance on what feels like the slowest train possible, is $50CAD (35€) per person. And that's before tax.

It's about half that to take the bus (in both time and money).

CN Rail owns pretty much all the railways here, and they only want to use it for cargo, nothing else. Our city (Halifax) couldn't even get a short (10km) commuter rail line set up because of CN's iron grip on the only rails available to use.

 

[Arilian]

The CCP also doesn't give af about environmental impacts, or even towns in the way of their construction projects.

Click to shrink...

High-speed trains are more respectful of the environment than planes.

SNCF Réseau, the company tasked with building and managing the French train network did a environnement impact study of one of its high-speed line, taking everything into account and the results are clear (the blue line is the CO2 emissions needed to build and operated the Rhin-Rhône High-speed line, the orange line is the avoided emissions because people use that line instead of cars and planes):

• around 11-12 years after being build, the line already has a net impact on the environnement
• after 30 years, it'll have help avoid twice as much emissions as the ones necessary to build and operate it for 30 years.

Source: https://bonpote.com/train-vs-avion-match-retour/ (in French)

In France the HS rails are more or less exclusive to the TGV and the TGV doesn't use any other rails as far as I know. So the HS rail grid is relatively small and only connects a relatively small amount of cities.

Click to shrink...

The TGV is able to use normal railways and in fact, needs to do so to travel to the train stations inside French biggest cities.

As an example, inside Ile de France and Paris, TGV are using the same railways as the RER (Réseau Express Régional). Paris is one of densest capital city in the world, with an extensive existing trains network and it would have been a nightmare to build even one high-speed line inside Paris, let alone the number required to service every major Paris' stations.

And in many small cities we are able to get on a TGV to Paris. Even only travelling from that small city to a bigger city, that TGV will use the same railways as regional trains and a TGV is usually still faster than a regional train doing the same journey for a couple of reasons:

• a TGV will not stop in as much stations as a regional train
• a TGV is usually enjoying the highest level of priority and regional trains will be delayed before a TGV is delayed

On that map, the blue lines are high-speed lines, the black lines are standard lines used by the TGV and the gray lines are the standard lines no used by the TGV.

 

[Glace]

Country	Length of lines in operation (km)	Lines under construction (km)	Approved but not started construction	Max speed (km/h)
China	26,869​	10,738​	1,268​	350​
Spain	3,100​	1,800​	0​	310​
Japan	3,041​	402​	194​	320​
France	3,220​	125​	0​	320​
Germany	3,038​	330​	0​	300​
Sweden	1,706​	11​	0​	205​
United Kingdom	1,377​	230​	320​	300​
South Korea	1,104​	376​	49​	305​
Italy	999​	116​	0​	300​
Turkey	802​	1,208​	1,127​	300​
Russia	845​	0​	770​	205​
Finland	609​	0​	0​	220​
Uzbekistan	600​	0​	0​	250​
Austria	352​	208​	0​	250​
Taiwan-China	354​	0​	0​	300​
Belgium	326​	0​	0​	300​
Poland	224​	0​	484​	200​
Netherlands	175​	0​	0​	300​
Switzerland	144​	15​	0​	250​
Luxembourg	142​	0​	0​	320​
Norway	64​	54​	0​	210​
U.S.A.	54​	192​	1,710​	240​

High-Speed rail lines are the buzzword of the last two decades, but apart from China, Japan, Germany, Spain, and France, most are lagging behind or are in the "planing" stage for 20 to 40 years.
Many fail to get out of the planning stage because of costs and economic viability studies.

And this is mainly because most failed High-Speed-Rail projects have one fatal flaw:
They just want to connect some big cities mostly in a straight line.
That can work if the cities are big enough and it is easier than taking a flight, which is probably the issue because the rail lines are only serving the big cities anyway.
So why take a train?

For a High-Speed-Rail to work you can't just connect a few big cities and call it a day.
Mind you, that is also the case in China, Japan, Germany, Spain, and France. The HS Trains only stop at big cities, even if there are more of them connected.
BUT! They have one glaring advantage: They have feeder lines. And many of these feeder lines are loss-leading. Germany had over 3,000 kilometers of HS-Rail and 33,000 kilometers of normal rail lines.

Why are the feeder lines needed?
- As the name suggests, they feed passengers to the HS lines, making them more profitable or even only profitable with the passengers from feeding lines.
- it makes it possible for people outside of big cities to get around without the need of a car. If you can only use a train for 10 to 20% of the time/distance (the scenario where you go from one big city to another), why even use a train and not just get a car instead?
- Let's say you live in a small city of 20,000 people and you want to take a vacation 300 kilometers away. The next HS train station is 30 kilometers away and the little vacation spot is another 20 kilometers from the nearest HS train station. Without feeder lines, would the family take the HS train and uses buses/taxis/rentals for the two stretches they can't use the train or would they just use the car the whole way? If you have feeder lines, they can take the slow train to the big city at the start and the slow train from the big city to the vacation spot while most of the route they travel in the High-Speed train.

Click to shrink...

Just an FYI while the high speed lines in China connect big cities they also stop in many small towns and even villages along the way. That's what makes it worthwhile, otherwise the trains wouldn't be as full either. In China High Speed Trains are pretty much planned to completely take over the existing train network.

 

[dosh]

We barely have any train service left in Nova Scotia, and getting between Halifax and Truro, a 100km distance on what feels like the slowest train possible, is $50CAD (35€) per person. And that's before tax.

It's about half that to take the bus (in both time and money).

CN Rail owns pretty much all the railways here, and they only want to use it for cargo, nothing else. Our city (Halifax) couldn't even get a short (10km) commuter rail line set up because of CN's iron grip on the only rails available to use.

Click to shrink...

Damn that sucks. I'd have thought Canadian transportation would heavily rely on railways, if only because of the distances between your big cities.

Mostly buses and planes then?

 

[gozu]

Why u dissin' Africa like that breh? The list is missing Morocco 🇲🇦 which has inaugurated a line 3 years ago, built by the french. (Merci!) Here is a more current list from Wikipedia:

�

Rank	Country/Region	Continent	In operation (km)	Under construction (km)	Total (km)	Network density (m/km2​)	Length per 100,000 people (km)	Max. speed (km/h)	Electrification	Track gauge (mm)	Notes
1	China	Asia	37,900[6]​​	32,100​	70,000[7]​​	3.95​	2.8​	350[8]​[9]​[10]​[11]​​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	Shanghai Maglev: 430 km/h max;[12]​ The only country in the world to provide overnight sleeping high-speed trains at 250 km/h.
2	Spain	Europe	4,207.7​	1,497.4​	5,705.1[13]​​	8.32​	9.3​	310​	3 kV DC; 25 kV 50 Hz​	1435; 1668​	(at least 400 km upgraded and are not listed by UIC)
3	France	Europe	2,734.0​	560.1​	4,536.867​	7.21​	6.17​	320[14]​​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	dedicated (LGV)
1,242.767​	220​	1.5 kV DC, 25 kV 50 Hz​	upgraded
4	Germany	Europe	1,267​	3,321.83​	6,225.83​	8.83​	4.17​	300​	15 kV 16.7 Hz; Diesel (before 2017)​	1435​	Dedicated or partially upgraded (NBS)
1,885.4​	250​	Upgraded (ABS)
5	Japan	Asia	2,764.6[15]​​	657.1​	3,421.7[16]​​	9​	2.19​	320[17]​​	25 kV 50 Hz, 25 kV 60 Hz​	1435; 1435&1067 dual​	The first network ever opened; 6411.7 km including approved
6	Italy	Europe	2,017.7​	965.24​	2,982.94​	6.7​	3.08​	300​	3 kV DC, 25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​
7	United Kingdom	Europe	108​	220​	2,142.7​	7.92​	2.79​	300[18]​​	25 kV 50 Hz AC; Diesel (or dual); 3 kV DC Third-Rail (at junctions only)​	1435​	Dedicated (HS)
1,814.7​	201[19]​​	1435​	Classic upgraded lines
8	Sweden	Europe	1,706[20]​​	718.5​	2,424.5​	3.79​	16.7​	205[21]​​	15 kV 16.7 Hz​	1435​	Only upgraded lines
9	South Korea	Asia	1,193.6​	712.585​	1,906.585​	11.91​	2.0​	305[22]​​	25 kV 60 Hz​	1435​	Including upgraded lines; the most dense network in the world
10	Turkey	Asia	1,015​	508​	2,175​	1.43​	1.09​	300​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	Dedicated
102​	550​	200​	Upgraded
11	Russia	Europe	940​	967[23]​​	1,907​	0.05​	0.73​	250[24]​​	3 kV DC, 25 kV 50 Hz​	1520​	Only upgraded lines; total 4595 km to be under construction no later than 2024
12	Greece	Europe	700​	695​	1,395​	5.3​	6.5​	200[25]​​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​
13	Finland	Europe	625​	201​	826​	1.85​	13.07​	220​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1524[26]​​	Only upgraded lines
14	Uzbekistan	Asia	600​	50​	650​	1.34​	2.0​	250​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1520​	Including upgraded lines
15	Saudi Arabia	Asia	453​	2,354​	2,807​	0.21​	1.37​	300​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​
16	Belgium	Europe	354.8​	147.9​	502.7​	8.98​	3.4​	300​	3 kV DC, 25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	Including upgraded lines
17	Poland	Europe	352​	411.457​	764.657​	1.13​	1.21​	200​	3 kV DC​	1435​	Only upgraded lines; 484 km extra approved
18	Taiwan	Asia	348​	54.6[27]​​	402.6​	9.37​	1.46​	300​	25 kV 60 Hz​	1435​
19	United States	North America	301​	1,789.3​	2,151.3​	0.03​	0.13​	240 [28]​[29]​​	12 kV 25 Hz, 12 kV 60 Hz, 25 kV 60 Hz; Diesel (or dual)​	1435​	Only upgraded lines; dedicated lines under construction
20	Portugal	Europe	227​	626​	853​	2.46​	1.98​	220​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1668​	Only upgraded lines
21	Austria	Europe	192.764​	231.37​	424.134​	2.3​	2.25​	250​	15 kV 16.7 Hz​	1435​	Including upgraded lines
22	Morocco	Africa	186[30]​​	1,287​	1,473​	0.28​	0.5​	320​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	Inaugurated in November 2018
23	Norway	Europe	139.5​	459.55​	599.05​	0.43​	2.16​	210​	15 kV 16.7 Hz​	1435​	Only upgraded lines
24	Netherlands	Europe	125​	166.8​	291.8​	2.99​	0.75​	300[31]​​	1.5 kV DC, 25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​	Hanzelijn is expected to start high-speed services
25	Switzerland	Europe	49.97​	431.4​	481.37​	1.21​	0.64​	250​	15 kV 16.7 Hz​	1435​
26	Hong Kong	Asia	26​	0​	0​	23.51​	0.34​	200​	25 kV 50 Hz​	1435​
27	Denmark	Europe	5​	766.8​	771.8​	0.12​	0.24​	200​	25 kV 50 Hz; Diesel (before 2017)​	1435​

 

[eonden]

Eeeh. As a spaniard, I can tell you that a big chunk of the extra km of high speed rail in here is unnecessary and well over capacity. Same in China too where a ton of the high speed rail joining tier 2 and tier 3 cities is for all intents and purposes running at a major loss.

There is something to say about increasing the high speed rail connectivity between metropolitan areas, and improving the speed of normal "fast" trains (like trains can go faster than 120kmh without being high speed!) so that they can compete both in short and medium range vs buses and planes, but the "high speed rail is the end all" is a bunch of unnecessary cost that nobody wants.

 

[Keyouta]

I wish we had high speed rail or really, anything at all. I'm in Alberta, Canada, and we basically have jack shit. There's like one passenger line running through Edmonton and it's slow as fuck.

Sure was nice when I lived in Japan lol. Most of Europe seems to have it good too.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Fact that Canada doesn't have it given how far some do the major cities are tells me this thing ain't cost effective

Click to shrink...

Nah, Southern Ontario and Southern Quebec are smaller than Sweden but have double the population. It's car dependency plain and simple.

 

[jman2050]

Just an FYI while the high speed lines in China connect big cities they also stop in many small towns and even villages along the way. That's what makes it worthwhile, otherwise the trains wouldn't be as full either. In China High Speed Trains are pretty much planned to completely take over the existing train network.

Click to shrink...

That is an absolute pipe dream. Falls squarely into "It's nice to want things" territory.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Sunster]

and they're expensive as fuuuuuuuuuck

Click to shrink...

the word "expensive" is meaningless in the context of US government spending. we could make 100,000 km of high-speed rail if we wanted to. politicians portraying this country as strapped for cash is simply a reelection/election strategy.

 

[Zarmander]

North America has a defeatist attitude about improving their public transportation. We're way behind, so we need to improve slowly and reduce car dependency over time. Also, the cheaper ways of building transit like elevated lines always face tons of opposition due to esthetics.

 

[Joni]

Belgium doesn't need more. Easy connection to Paris, Amsterdam and Cologne. What else do we need? So I think it can go on the list of countries that are doing well. I think a more EU united approach would be good

 

[Darren Lamb]

I wish it wasn't so hard to upgrade existing infrastructure for high speed rail. A significant portion of the Northeast Corridor traffic is rail and it'd be higher with faster trains, but it seems silly to pay for the Acela right now since it's such a small improvement in travel time. If they did a good job integrating regional commuter rail with a HSR line it'd create new commuting opportunities and steal more traffic from buses and planes. and the area is dense enough for it to make sense.

 

[Tainted]

You think the US have it bad....take a look at Australia's feeble attempts of getting a decent HS infrastructure started. At least in the US you do have semi HS services in the form of the Acela Express....we have in Australia next to nothing (the closest we have to it is the tilt train in QLD and XPT in NSW which are laughable at best).

For a continent the size of Australia it is downright embarrassing that we do not have 1 decent dedicated HS line connecting at least the major cities

Read and weep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Australia

 

[Chikor]

For people who think that the US can't displace residents, just do a cursory research of the history of pretty much every sports stadium in the country, and of course, the interstate system.

Why u dissin' Africa like that breh? The list is missing Morocco 🇲🇦 which has inaugurated a line 3 years ago, built by the french. (Merci!) Here is a more current list from Wikipedia:

Click to shrink...

That's the first time I'm hearing about this (late! I blame MTV for ruining my attention span)

wooah
I need to go back.

Also google, wtf is tanger for real your mighty AI looks at "tangier" right after "casablanca" and think yeah that must be a typo?

 

[Det]

Country	Length of lines in operation (km)	Lines under construction (km)	Approved but not started construction	Max speed (km/h)
China	26,869​	10,738​	1,268​	350​
Spain	3,100​	1,800​	0​	310​
Japan	3,041​	402​	194​	320​
France	3,220​	125​	0​	320​
Germany	3,038​	330​	0​	300​
Sweden	1,706​	11​	0​	205​
United Kingdom	1,377​	230​	320​	300​
South Korea	1,104​	376​	49​	305​
Italy	999​	116​	0​	300​
Turkey	802​	1,208​	1,127​	300​
Russia	845​	0​	770​	205​
Finland	609​	0​	0​	220​
Uzbekistan	600​	0​	0​	250​
Austria	352​	208​	0​	250​
Taiwan-China	354​	0​	0​	300​
Belgium	326​	0​	0​	300​
Poland	224​	0​	484​	200​
Netherlands	175​	0​	0​	300​
Switzerland	144​	15​	0​	250​
Luxembourg	142​	0​	0​	320​
Norway	64​	54​	0​	210​
U.S.A.	54​	192​	1,710​	240​

High-Speed rail lines are the buzzword of the last two decades, but apart from China, Japan, Germany, Spain, and France, most are lagging behind or are in the "planing" stage for 20 to 40 years.
Many fail to get out of the planning stage because of costs and economic viability studies.

And this is mainly because most failed High-Speed-Rail projects have one fatal flaw:
They just want to connect some big cities mostly in a straight line.
That can work if the cities are big enough and it is easier than taking a flight, which is probably the issue because the rail lines are only serving the big cities anyway.
So why take a train?

For a High-Speed-Rail to work you can't just connect a few big cities and call it a day.
Mind you, that is also the case in China, Japan, Germany, Spain, and France. The HS Trains only stop at big cities, even if there are more of them connected.
BUT! They have one glaring advantage: They have feeder lines. And many of these feeder lines are loss-leading. Germany had over 3,000 kilometers of HS-Rail and 33,000 kilometers of normal rail lines.

Why are the feeder lines needed?
- As the name suggests, they feed passengers to the HS lines, making them more profitable or even only profitable with the passengers from feeding lines.
- it makes it possible for people outside of big cities to get around without the need of a car. If you can only use a train for 10 to 20% of the time/distance (the scenario where you go from one big city to another), why even use a train and not just get a car instead?
- Let's say you live in a small city of 20,000 people and you want to take a vacation 300 kilometers away. The next HS train station is 30 kilometers away and the little vacation spot is another 20 kilometers from the nearest HS train station. Without feeder lines, would the family take the HS train and uses buses/taxis/rentals for the two stretches they can't use the train or would they just use the car the whole way? If you have feeder lines, they can take the slow train to the big city at the start and the slow train from the big city to the vacation spot while most of the route they travel in the High-Speed train.

Click to shrink...

Another major factor in profitability, at least in Japan, is the ownership of real-estate surrounding major stations. Large complexes filled with shops/restaurants/cinemas/entertainment/businesses etc. Retail is a big part of the revenue/profit pie for these railway companies.

 

[Chikor]

Another major factor in profitability, at least in Japan, is the ownership of real-estate surrounding major stations. Large complexes filled with shops/restaurants/cinemas/entertainment/businesses etc. Retail is a big part of the revenue/profit pie for these railway companies.

Click to shrink...

I think anywhere in the world that I've been to, when you add a high speed rail station, you end up with a development boom around it.
Different countries, different continents, different economic systems, doesn't seem to matter.
If you built it they would come. And build other stuff.

 

[mikeamizzle]

Nobody gives a shit about high speed rail anymore here. That's why. We cared a decade+ ago when we were dumb enough to believe in the dream. There's no market for it here. We all gave up and bought fast cars instead.

here=USA

 

[Chikor]

Nobody gives a shit about high speed rail anymore here. That's why. We cared a decade+ ago when we were dumb enough to believe in the dream. There's no market for it here. We all gave up and bought fast cars instead.

here=USA

Click to shrink...

I don't think the problem is the public as much as there is waaaaaaaaaaay more money lobbying the government against high speed rail than money going for it.

 

[mikeamizzle]

I'd rather have some autobahn style highways established in the US at this point tbh. At least that seems somewhat realistic..

 

[Sunster]

I think anywhere in the world that I've been to, when you add a high speed rail station, you end up with a development boom around it.
Different countries, different continents, different economic systems, doesn't seem to matter.
If you built it they would come. And build other stuff.

Click to shrink...

Not high-speed but there was a proposed light rail project in my area that would connect 3 cities. The idea was that it would do what you said, development boom in the area between the larger cities on each end of the rail. Buuut it would cost a frightening 1 penny in added sales tax and that was too much for the heinous florida boomers to bear so it was voted down.


those same boomers however, drunk off the success of their "No tax for tracks" initiative got the band back together a few years later to try and prevent an expanded bus project in my city that would among other things, create bus only lanes. This one they called "Save our streets". They failed miserably and said infrastructure is being constructed now and will be ready this Summer. Get rekt

 

[Det]

I think anywhere in the world that I've been to, when you add a high speed rail station, you end up with a development boom around it.
Different countries, different continents, different economic systems, doesn't seem to matter.
If you built it they would come. And build other stuff.

Click to shrink...

Sure but I meant more directly, as in the entire retail operation is owned by the railway company itself.

Quick article on the topic: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2018/11/01/spur-talk-the-japanese-model-for-station-development/

 

[mikeamizzle]

Tesla's and shit like that and their proponents are super anti any commuter train future.

 

[Freezasaurus]

and they're expensive as fuuuuuuuuuck

Click to shrink...

So basically if they had a militrary use they would be approved in the United Stats in a heartbeat?

 

[Deleted member 8257]

Should be standard procedure for developed nations such as the US.

The idea that you have to fly everywhere to move city to city is ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

The reason why is because Airline industry and Big Oil benefit from Air and Car transportation. Their lobbyists love to kill any HSR projects. That, and local jurisdictions in US absolutely hate construction work happening in their localities, so they keep them frozen in perpetual study mode.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I would like HS rail from New York north to Toronto and south to Miami. I would never have to sniff an airport another day in my life.

 

[Glace]

That is an absolute pipe dream. Falls squarely into "It's nice to want things" territory.

Click to shrink...

As someone who lives in China and uses the high speed rail network, it has very much taken over most big routes in the last decade and now the smaller routes are also being slowly replaced.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

You think the US have it bad....take a look at Australia's feeble attempts of getting a decent HS infrastructure started. At least in the US you do have semi HS services in the form of the Acela Express....we have in Australia next to nothing (the closest we have to it is the tilt train in QLD and XPT in NSW which are laughable at best).

For a continent the size of Australia it is downright embarrassing that we do not have 1 decent dedicated HS line connecting at least the major cities

Read and weep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Australia

Click to shrink...

Yes I remember working with an Australian friend in London and he was simply amazed that the UK and Europe had train networks, buses, tubes let alone high speed rail.

When he lived in London he never drove as he d it didn't need to but said Australia that's just not possible. Without a car you can't get anywhere.

 

[gozu]

Also google, wtf is tanger for real your mighty AI looks at "tangier" right after "casablanca" and think yeah that must be a typo?

Click to shrink...

Tangier is spelled Tanger in french. That probably contributed to the AI failure.

 

[Kyougar]

I don't know why anyone would prefer airflight for distances below 4 to 6 hours (by air)

- In most cases, HSR is faster if you take check-in, security, waiting times, waiting lines for flights into account
- it has more room for you and your feet
- you are not packed like sardines
- if you have a compartment, it is quieter
- many seats have stable tables to place things like a laptop or even a board game
- many trains have a snack bar/ full hospitality car
- no security check-ins, no waiting lines
- most train stations (at least in big cities) are just so much more relaxed


some pictures of the German Inter City Express (ICE)
1st class of the 1st and 2nd generation cars (we are currently on Gen4)

ICE 1st generation Restaurant car

ICE 4th generation restaurant car

ICE 1st generation Bar/snack car

ICE 4th generation Snack bar

ICE 4th Generation 2nd class

1st Class ICE-T (between 3rd and 4th generation)

ICE 3rd generation compartments (2nd class, 1st class has only 4 seats instead of 6)

 

[Sunster]

That, and local jurisdictions in US absolutely hate construction work happening in their localities, so they keep them frozen in perpetual study mode.

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I don't doubt this but it's also hilarious because every single city I've ever been in seems to have massive highway construction that's been going on for decades.

 

[Kain]

Living in Barcelona and having family in Madrid, the HSR is god sent

They now have the low cost option, it's like 40 euros round trip.

I hope they continue to expand the rails

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Meh, that's actually the problem, AVE is just worth it for going to Madrid. For any other city it's usually faster and cheaper just getting on a plane.

 

[Pikachu Statue]

I don't think the problem is the public

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That's only because the public aren't currently being weaponised against it. The problem could quickly become the public. Being against HSR would be an easy addition to the rightwing talking points, it's the same shape as all the other ones.

 

[Chikor]

I don't know why anyone would prefer airflight for distances below 4 to 6 hours (by air)

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My cut off for choosing a train over dealing with air travel is waaaaaay above 6 hours.

some pictures of the German Inter City Express (ICE)

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What if I told you you could have this though?

 

[squall23]

I don't know why anyone would prefer airflight for distances below 4 to 6 hours (by air)

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Boredom. I'm not one of those people that think it's "cool and calming" to stare outside a window looking at nature or farms or rural houses. On a plane, I have a screen in front of me with movies.

I once took a plane ride from Hong Kong to Changsha and took the HSR back. Flight was 1.5 hours, train was around 3.5 hours. I honestly felt the plane ride was much easier and faster even with check-in.

Of course I say all this even though I know I'll gladly ride the trains when I go on my European trip one day.

 

[Jisgsaw]

I think expecting the rail to be in the black is also a contributing factor. Most rail doesn't make money and shouldn't be expected to. The bonus is a boon for nearby economies.

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It's this.
Privatising public transport is so, so dumb I can't wrap my head around how the EU managed to impose it.

 

[Eamon]

Unfortunately looks like the US has opted to just add more EZ Pass lanes. I live South of DC and many people commute up. Expanding Metro down would have helped traffic but instead they just ripped out the center lane trees and added more ezpass,which has done nothing to help traffic.

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It's baffling that this continues to happen, meanwhile the Metro is falling apart at the seams and reduced service is continuing through to the end of 2021. Terrible.

 

[keku]

Meh, that's actually the problem, AVE is just worth it for going to Madrid. For any other city it's usually faster and cheaper just getting on a plane.

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It connects Valencia too, but yeah i don't deny that it can be cheaper to hop on a plane. Not sure about time tho, I love the fact that you can arrive 15 minutes before the train leaves and there is no need to run

I'll be taking the HS train to Valencia in January, so hopefully I have same positive experience

Also a big plus for me is that a few years ago I started with a bit of fear flying, so all in all I enjoy the train more when I can

 

[Eamon]

Boredom. I'm not one of those people that think it's "cool and calming" to stare outside a window looking at nature or farms or rural houses. On a plane, I have a screen in front of me with movies.

I once took a plane ride from Hong Kong to Changsha and took the HSR back. Flight was 1.5 hours, train was around 3.5 hours. I honestly felt the plane ride was much easier and faster even with check-in.

Of course I say all this even though I know I'll gladly ride the trains when I go on my European trip one day.

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High Speed Rail is a no brainer for trips in say the North East Corridor of the USA - a 90 Minute Train ride between DC and NYC would be vastly better than either flying or driving.

 

[Xando]

Boredom. I'm not one of those people that think it's "cool and calming" to stare outside a window looking at nature or farms or rural houses. On a plane, I have a screen in front of me with movies.

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German ICE already solved this. You can log into their wifi and watch stuff (they offer a selection of movies and tv shows).

 

[PhantomFFR]

Boredom. I'm not one of those people that think it's "cool and calming" to stare outside a window looking at nature or farms or rural houses. On a plane, I have a screen in front of me with movies.

I once took a plane ride from Hong Kong to Changsha and took the HSR back. Flight was 1.5 hours, train was around 3.5 hours. I honestly felt the plane ride was much easier and faster even with check-in.

Of course I say all this even though I know I'll gladly ride the trains when I go on my European trip one day.

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Also in addition to WIFI mentioned by Xando the 1st generation ICE had several cars with screens in the seat in front of you to watch a selection of movies on. And all seats had headphone connections to listen to a selection of several on board radio channels containing music/audiobooks.

But you are actually allowed to take your laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Switch or what ever you may use on the train and use it the whole time. You are also not restricted in terms of food or drinks you carry on. So just based on this, even if the train itself offers none of this, I can't quite follow your argument. Especially given that power outlets and even (free) WIFI is becoming quite widespread in all trains fast and slow in Europe.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

How many road trips must be made from LA to Vegas? Must be like 50 mil a year.

It's crazy that there is no high speed rail network which covers that journey.

This will happen surely?

Governors weigh in on high-speed rail progress between Vegas and Victorville

 

[Puroresu_kid]

It's this.
Privatising public transport is so, so dumb I can't wrap my head around how the EU managed to impose it.

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Yep. We have so called privitisation in the UK which was still heavily subsidised by the state and all it resulted in is ridiculous high prices to travel by train unless you managed to book well in advance. Buying a ticket on the day to travel two hours from say London to Manchester absurdly expensive.

Granted prior the rail system was awful under state control but that was simply because the government under invested massively letting it fail.

 

[FinFunnels]

What if I told you you could have this though?

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I laughed and then I cried