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Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,239
Spain
For the same reason why paid online play was somehow accepted as reasonable on console, but it (rightly so) seems insane on PC and will never happen there.
Because the people who game on PC primarily and spend money to build computers won't sacrifice performance or latency just to be able to play on a Mac.
Yep.

I have a 144 Hz monitor. Will Stadia ever provide me with buttery smooth, input lag-less 144 FPS gameplay? lol no
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,740
The enthusiasts who play on PC are a tiny fraction of the market, which mostly consists of online GaaS games already. The average PC player doesn't have a 3000 dollar rig, but an aging college laptop to play League of Legends on. You're right OP, the PC market would be impacted by streaming just as much as the console market. The only reason why it wouldn't as much is because on average the PC gamer is poorer (talking about the large groups of people living in Eastern Europe, Asia and South America here, traditional PC markets whereas consoles are played more in the US and Japan) and the style of media consumption currently is more conducive to subscriptions for TV based gaming. On the other hand WoW already showed that this is not a big hurdle.

Online GAAS games aren't a tiny fraction of the PC market, they are the majority. People that play DOTA/CS/LoL/Fortnite (all free games, so streaming wouldn't help anyway) don't want latency in their online matches.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,735
Brazil
Well there is your issue.

Not just mine:

The enthusiasts who play on PC are a tiny fraction of the market, which mostly consists of online GaaS games already. The average PC player doesn't have a 3000 dollar rig, but an aging college laptop to play League of Legends on.
Wasn't there some data from steam a year or two ago that showed 70%+ of steam users didn't even have a dedicated GPU?
 
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Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,735
Brazil
Is this dude gaslighting me?

I am explaining that most pc players, like your post say, have "an aging college laptop to play League of Legends on" so they all have the same 10 year old problems that people joked don't exist anymore just because they can run Control on 4k with all the reflections on
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,343
Lol I've replaced my pc with GeForce now and eventually stadia, I'm keeping my consoles for exclusives
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,457
I am explaining that most pc players, like your post say, have "an aging college laptop to play League of Legends on" so they all have the same 10 year old problems that people joked don't exist anymore just because they can run Control on 4k with all the reflections on
Lmao. Bruh I think you misqouted. I did not make that post.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
This question is the equivalent to "why doesn't anyone talk about how self driving cars will end the high end sports car market?"

Because they are only tangentially connected. Enthusiasts (which pc gamers, by definition, are) are going to keep going. Just like vinyl records, just like sports cars, just like art collectors, etc.

If anything, I expect enthusiasts are less likely to buy into streaming services and are more likely to stream their own stuff going forward.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,735
Brazil
Lmao. Bruh I think you misqouted. I did not make that post.

wut O.o
must be some bug when you have too much replies quoted or something weird

I was going to quote your "people who spend money on pc gaming" to differentiate people who just buy a pc and happen to also game on it too so that is why your quote was in the mix
 
OP
OP
MotiD

MotiD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,560
What are the reasons why you are currently playing games on PC instead of consoles?

I live in Israel where physical games used to be really expensive at launch and kept their high price for the most part. Things are different now but I got used to playing on PC, last upgraded my PC in 2014 even tho I had a PS3 at the time, I always had to order games from overseas so that was a drag and something I did mostly for exclusives or games that weren't available on PC, or games that had crappy performance on the PS3.
I have a PS4 and a Switch and have a lot of games mostly for my PS4, but I still spend more time playing on PC. I prefer having physical copies for my consoles so even though there's more options than last-gen in that regard, it's less of a thing for me.

I think there will be a lot of people on midrange hardware that will jump into streaming, but not exclusively. The person with a 1060 might want to play Control or Metro Exodus on streaming where they can get improved performance, but would I think largely stay native for esports titles, casual games, and indies.

Upgrades can be pricey but it all goes back to the mindset of what you're buying into. If you want something that will simply play new games, it might not be worth it to you to buy a $400-700 gpu. If you want something that offers a lot more options for tuning your machine and getting high performance, it might be.

This is likely very true.
I'm mostly speaking of hardware-demanding games and less about games like Fortnite, Dota and LoL.
For example, my current rig is a i7-4790k/GTX 970/16GB RAM and newer stuff like Control (which I would love to play but have yet to purchase) would require some heavy compromises to run well on my rig. Metro Exodus did not run very well either, and I'm sure there's plenty of other examples.
Upgrading would most likely require me to buy a new CPU in addition to the GPU, which means I also have to buy a new motherboard. That means I have to buy new memory (correct me if I'm wrong).
That alone is probably more than a $1000 in my local currency, and it doesn't take into account a 4k monitor to accompany a GPU able to output at that resolution.
If you told me I had to choose between spending all that money or streaming Control from the cloud (and I am talking about a good and viable solution), you know which one I'm going to pick..
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,781
Alabama
Because if you find streaming acceptable, you'd be on console instead of PC anyway. PC is about paying extra up front so you're not compromising performance. Streaming is less compromising than console, but still a compromise compared to PC gaming.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,339
wut O.o
must be some bug when you have too much replies quoted or something weird

I was going to quote your "people who spend money on pc gaming" to differentiate people who just buy a pc and happen to also game on it too so that is why your quote was in the mix
You might not want to quote people with ridiculous opinions and expect a decent discussion. I've *never* had a $3000 rig and I've always been able to play the most recent games well.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
The amount of trolling and lack of knowledge of both "worlds" from both "worlds" is quite something. Even some PC gamers failed to see the PC gaming world isn't "master race".

BTW, who said cloud gaming is a threat to any market?
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,343
Because if you find streaming acceptable, you'd be on console instead of PC anyway. PC is about paying extra up front so you're not compromising performance. Streaming is less compromising than console, but still a compromise compared to PC gaming.
Cloud gaming will eventually be stronger than pc though with server stacking and cost less

It's already stronger than my pc even without stacking
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,781
Alabama
Cloud gaming will eventually be stronger than pc though and cost less
You still have input and output lag. That will always make it a compromise. The speed of light won't be broken by Google anytime soon.

You'll also always have lower image quality through streaming vs local rendering due to compression artifacting. Not as noticable on a TV from across the room, but sitting at a monitor, it'll be annoying.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Who are the people that are fine with paying 60 bucks for a game, want it to be 4k, but the barrier of buying a 200 to 300 console is too high?
Those who buy an OG PS4/XB1 today instead of a Pro/X.
...or wait for black friday deals until they jump in.
...or thought PS3 was way too expensive at launch and waited a year or two before jumping in on the new generation.
...or don't bother upgrading to a Pro/X because of the cost even though they want one.

In short. Regular people.
Why wouldn't you want the entry cost to be $200-300 less?
And why wouldn't you want to always have the latest upgrade without actually having to pay for it?
 

Thac0

Member
Nov 15, 2017
235
PC gaming is sitting in the pc chair, closing browser tabs and downloads, installing, changing the configurations, starting the game, seeing it is not on the optimal settings, changing settings, restarting the game because it needs for the settings to take effect and repeat 3 times. And then you discover that your controller stopped being accepted by the game after the 5th restart

You're getting a lot of unjustified heat for this paragraph, I agree with what you said. Most games and most modern controllers work flawlessly from the get go, but I've definitely put in some work to use older peripherals or to set up a game exactly the way I want it to be set up.

I spent hours reading forum posts and figuring out how to get my MadCatz Street Fighter IV TE fightstick to work with windows. it turned out that it only supported a very specific older USB architecture. If your machine didn't have it, it wouldn't work. It's not a driver issue. The only way to get it to recognize the stick properly was to buy a USB card with that architecture and install it, and it's been gravy every since. But man, I had to put some work in to figure out how to solve the problem.

On the software side I had issues with Nioh playing in windowed fullscreen so I downloaded a third party program to force it and it worked great.

Little things like this keep pc gaming from being 100% plug-n-play for me, but they're kind of self selected. If you didn't care about the framerate in Dark Souls you wouldn't have to install a third party patch and if you didn't care about listening to the MIDI soundtrack in Dragon Quest XI over the orchestral version you don't have to do anything. But for those who want to change things the opportunity is there!
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,301
qvkFqQJ.gif

Eh... I just started to game on PC and that has been my experience so far.
 

Deleted member 36086

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 13, 2017
897
If you look at it from the perspective of someone choosing to game on PC or console, PC requires a lot more commitment. First of all you have to have a PC capable of gaming. Most peoples computing needs are served fine by a $500 laptop that will last for years. Then you have to spend money to buy a PC, and be willing to make space for it. A lot of people are willing to make that commitment when they can just buy a small box to put next to their TV that plays games good enough.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
Wasn't there some data from steam a year or two ago that showed 70%+ of steam users didn't even have a dedicated GPU?

Most PC gamers are not enthusiasts.
No.

I mean common the hardware survey is available to anyone that wants to see it. Stop being lazy.

Last time i checked, about 6 months ago, well over 50% of the user base had gpus equally or more capable than current gen launch consoles. That's well over 100 million users on steam alone. In fact it's likely that in terms of the overall PC gaming community, there are more PC gamers with hardware that matches or beats the Ps4 and Xbox, than Sony AND Microsoft have sold consles this gen combined.

This dumb narrative that pc users, atleast the type that would play games on steam, are all on integrated gpis is just that, dumb.
 
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BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,343
No.

I mean common the hardware survey is available to anyone that wants to see it. Stop being lazy.

Last time i checked, about 6 months ago, well over 50% of the user base had gpus equally or more capable than current gen launch consoles. Thats well over 100 million users on steam alone.

This dumb narrative that pc users, atleast the type that would play games on steam, are all on integrated gpis is just that, dumb.
Either way cloud gaming is much stronger than the average persons gaming PC
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,020
Not enough difference to matter going by tests shown, I've already replaced my pc with GeForce now. I'm planning to never buy a pc again
I love GeForce Now and it performance SO MUCH BETTER than anyone could have reasonably expected.

BUT

My favorite game of all time, Prey, has terrible microstuttering when played through GeForce Now. I can't use my own custom license boards in FFXII on PC because Now only supports Workshop mods. And so on. The limitations do curb the experience significantly for some of us.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
Either way cloud gaming is much stronger than the average persons gaming PC

Not in terms of latency or image quality. But yes likely in terms of overal graphics output.

And latency is especially noticeable with mouse and keyboard, so, at least for games that a lot of Pc gamers prefer to play with m&k, they'd ahve to switch to a gamepad to even be able to tolerate.

Playing a game on a streaming service fo rthe majority of people will FEEL like playing a game at 25 fps, regardless of how many frames a second you're seeing on the screen.
 
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Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
PC gaming is sitting in the pc chair, closing browser tabs and downloads, installing, changing the configurations, starting the game, seeing it is not on the optimal settings, changing settings, restarting the game because it needs for the settings to take effect and repeat 3 times. And then you discover that your controller stopped being accepted by the game after the 5th restart
This is beyond wrong lmao. Most games just work. It's less that and more

Install game, check for updates, play game. If it's slow update drivers, but basically you're all good. And Valve already fixed controllers not being supported with their Universal Gamepad support.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
Duno about you but if Steam went under my whole gaming library would disappear!

Actually nope, Gabe said if Valve ever went under they'd make sure you'd be able to access all your games one way or another. I'm assume they'd either let you straight download all of them off of steam, or physically let you buy a drive or something with it all on them.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,343
Not in terms of latency or image quality. But yes likely in terms of overal graphics output.
The average also won't notice that small difference in input lag or image either, I've been gaming for 25 years and even I barely notice the difference myself on GeForce now

It's small enough difference to me that I rather save hundreds of $ by not upgrading or buying a pc ever again
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
I don't think it's any threat right now but I have little doubt this is where we're heading in the next few decades
I will probably be dead the day you will play a Mario game in streaming :D
Otherwise, probably, but the question is always the same : What choice will we have ? If they all decided it is streaming or nothing, it will be streaming.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
The average also won't notice that small difference in input lag or image either, I've been gaming for 25 years and even I barely notice the difference myself on GeForce now

It's small enough difference to me that I rather save hundreds of $ by not upgrading or buying a pc ever again

The difference in input lag is NOT small, unless you happen to live very close to a data center. And even then it's noticeable.
 

Derktron

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
1,445
I don't think people think that it goes both ways as people think PC will take over Xbox and cloud gaming is the future of gaming.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,339
I will probably be dead the day you will play a Mario game in streaming :D
Otherwise, probably, but the question is always the same : What choice will we have ? If they all decided it is streaming or nothing, it will be streaming.
Indeed. It's really just a matter of when the infrastructure is ready for the market to be viable for the big players. It solves a lot of things devs would like to solve like full control over their game and your experience, vastly diminished chance of your game getting pirated (it would almost have to happen at Google or in the offices at that point)
 

Derktron

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
1,445
PC's best point isn't graphics. It's the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want.
Hmm, not the way PC gaming is getting where games are exclusive and games are locked behind a DRM and the fact that you need to hack the game to break away from the DRM is a threat to PC gaming along with exclusivities within the PC space.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,670
So I think we need to expand on the 1080p commentary. While it is true 1080p is the most played resolution on PC refresh rates at this resolution are getting much higher. We are now seeing 1080p 144hz and 240hz monitors. People want that fast refresh rate and response time and you won't get that with streaming.

Flexibility is a huge strength of PC and streaming needs to be able to match this.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,343
I'm personally happy I never have to spend large amounts of money on pc hardware anymore
Between my smart phone and cloud gaming I just don't see any reason why I would need a pc anymore

I can't think of a good enough reason to convince myself to spend money on a pc
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
No.

I mean common the hardware survey is available to anyone that wants to see it. Stop being lazy.

Last time i checked, about 6 months ago, well over 50% of the user base had gpus equally or more capable than current gen launch consoles. That's well over 100 million users on steam alone. In fact it's likely that in terms of the overall PC gaming community, there are more PC gamers with hardware that matches or beats the Ps4 and Xbox, than Sony AND Microsoft have sold consles this gen combined.

This dumb narrative that pc users, atleast the type that would play games on steam, are all on integrated gpis is just that, dumb.
They updated it with August data. The top 30% is 1060, 1050 Ti and 1050. So the 50% is probably even a low value.
But don't be lazy too :) Sony almost sold 100 millions units and Microsoft almost 45 millions. And the survey is opt in so you can't extrapolate with the user base.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,886
Finland
Because PC gaming is a completely different mindset

Cloud gaming, like console gaming, is melt on couch and click play and you are done.

PC gaming is sitting in the pc chair, closing browser tabs and downloads, installing, changing the configurations, starting the game, seeing it is not on the optimal settings, changing settings, restarting the game because it needs for the settings to take effect and repeat 3 times. And then you discover that your controller stopped being accepted by the game after the 5th restart
Nah. Completely disagree. You sound like one of those who complain that PC gaming is way too convoluted and you can't play on a comfy couch. I'm a PC gamer through and through. I don't see cloud gaming as a threat, I see it as an opportunity and an option. I'm personally interested too, since I can't afford high-end hardware.