Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,222
I think the game looks absolutely terrific? Weird.

Same. I mean obviously I know it's not going to compete against Horizon but I never recall thinking it looked anything less than great. Quite the opposite in fact. I can think of countless points in the game that were stunning, though I guess a large portion of that was due to the fantastic world building that constantly draws you in so you may well miss the shortcomings.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,392
Because texture quality is really bad in the game and you can't hide it on rocks.
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,910
Same. I mean obviously I know it's not going to compete against Horizon but I never recall thinking it looked anything less than great. Quite the opposite in fact. I can think of countless points in the game that were stunning, though I guess a large portion of that was due to the fantastic world building that constantly draws you in so you may well miss the shortcomings.


Art style that excuses lot of the graphical issues carries the game for me, honestly anywhere I am in the game it's just beautiful to look at and I hope they made more of it.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,275
Yeah the rocks in botw really hampered my visual dopamine :[

Especially since I came off from playing the one and only Knack where rock texture was the only thing the game had going for itself

TSm5y1T.jpg

3D2mn0W.jpg


.. ;_;
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
The screenshot comparisons in this thread suck, so here's some of mine.
http:///azed.jpghttp:///bzed.jpghttp:///czed.jpghttp:///dzed.jpg

Honestly, I don't think any of the scenery looks good when you're standing right next to it, so it makes sense that areas where things are further apart would look better.
 
Oct 28, 2017
117
England
I think a BOTW sequel (on this engine) and switch only will be a joy to behold.
Scale the world back a touch.
Suspect it's what's coming from them.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,853
Lack of AF, subpar AA solution and low res than your TV's native (playing docked) will do that for you. It looks absolutely amazing on CEMU.
 

Deleted member 33409

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
111
I think a BOTW sequel (on this engine) and switch only will be a joy to behold.
Scale the world back a touch.
Suspect it's what's coming from them.
I think it's more about at what extend your eyes can see and specially how the map design is made. It's all about world streaming and they used it very well in this game, otherwise it couldn't run on Wii U. About the next Zelda game I imagine a very different visual impact and world. I don't think Link will climb mountains like BOTW or use horses to travel and yet I suspect that the next game will have a bigger map like twice.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,294
The game was built for the piece of shit known as the Wii U, and the only improvement the Switch version brings to the table in terms of graphics is resolution. So you are looking at textures designed to be streamed from a Blu-Ray on a Wii U. It's a miracle that it looks as good as it does.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Most games do unfortunately.
Rocks are hard to get right, and you can't use the same kind of tricks you can use for vegetation for example.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,139
It's a Wii U game, they didn't want to spend too much on the Switch port, it could have pushed back release time even further.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,742
The screenshot comparisons in this thread suck, so here's some of mine.
http:///azed.jpghttp:///bzed.jpghttp:///czed.jpghttp:///dzed.jpg

Honestly, I don't think any of the scenery looks good when you're standing right next to it, so it makes sense that areas where things are further apart would look better.
What clothing, weapon and shield are those? I've put hundreds of hours and don't think I've seen them lol.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,742
Barbarian Armor and Desert Voe Trousers. That's the Lynel Shield, and I'm sure you must have seen the Spiked Moblin Club before.
You're right, after looking at it again I actually have that gear and have used the club/shield before lol. Guess my quick glance deceived me. The top of the bow made it look like part of the weapon.
 

Cynn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
It's the team's first HD game and started development really early on Wii U.
The game also does a lot so it's not going to look great all the time
It still blows my mind that some Nintendo developers started HD game development 10 bloody years after the rest of the industry. It's akin to an indigenous tribe shooting arrows at airplanes flying too low. lol

They make great games mind you, but it's just so odd to me still.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
So I'm not too familiar with how BotW is built, but from the looks of it they are not using an overall macro normal map, which would be sculpted per rock and section that gives the overall rock its shape. Instead they are using micro normal details (so a tiling bumpy rock surface) that tiles across the entire rock wall area. And because of the way the game functions and works, they are basically using designer geo (very simple shapes that the player interacts with 1:1), where a lot of modern titles would create a tile set of fully sculpted rocks with Macro and Micro normals/materials, that they then would be the wall out of modularly. But since the climb surface has to be pretty specific you cannot rely on that density of surfaces that may obstruct the player path and be very difficult to test.

There are ways around making a set locked off climable wall that then you could use a set of to make more detailed climable sections that have a higher fidelity, but they didn't seem it important to priotize it, which makes sense.
This is it. To me it looks like they were stuck with a relatively basic terrain editor. Individual assets like trees, buildings, and stuff like that look great, and so do scenes that are made up of those elements, but once you get into less handcrafted areas it becomes a lot more rough, and it looks like the tools they had to modify geometry, paint textures and decals and so forth were pretty basic. (Look for instance at the floor from straight up, and in many places you can see paths and patches of an artist's soft brush painting textures)
It's not a matter of being "Wii U game" or the Wii U being too weak, but rather a result of the tools they used. Let's not forget it started development very early in the life of the Wii U, and they were probably stuck with those tools lest they break something else, whereas more modern Nintendo games have terrain that looks a lot better. I'm pretty sure this is something that will be addressed in the next game, because it's the biggest sticking point in the visuals of BOTW. The climbing system is already pretty solid in tricky geometry, so I'm sure they could make it work. Already some rocky scenery looks great (Death Mountain) whereas others look terrible, especially when rock intersects with grass.

It also doesn't help that the scale of the mountains in this game is gargantuan.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
"First HD game" is a poor/non excuse. I remember the same or similar excuse for FFXIII not having real cities. Being a first HD game doesn't mean developer don't know about tessellation, high res textures, 16x AF, ambient occlusion and what not. The rest is sheer scale, which developer did great almost decades ago.

What is convincing though is hardware limitation. You can't use high res textures with only so much RAM. Lack of (good) tessellation is also due to the (low) GPU power. Low or no anisotropic filtering can be indeed an oversight of developers, though. See many PS4 games for reference, not offering any or low samples of AF opposed to Xbox One games. Many developers patched their games after the community drew attention to the problem.
 

SantaC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
"First HD game" is a poor/non excuse. I remember the same or similar excuse for FFXIII not having real cities. Being a first HD game doesn't mean developer don't know about tessellation, high res textures, 16x AF, ambient occlusion and what not. The rest is sheer scale, which developer did great almost decades ago.
It is not even their first HD Zelda.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
Zelda will always be the franchise that clashes most with Nintendo's fun first, graphics later approach.
 

Acido

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,098
With the experience that they already have and without the constrains of Wii U, I can't wait to see what they achieve with the next Zelda on Switch.
 

Zedelima

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,792
AFAIK BotW runs in a special mode on Wii U that allows it to use 1.5 GB of RAM.
Really? This is huge news for me lol

Never knew devs are be able to do this. But in the same way, switch have more than double the ram and faster too, so i expect a good improvement on this side
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Kinda feel bad for people in here thinking that wiiu was the only console holding botw back graphically.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
Were you the one that put 40hrs on the Great Plateau? 180 hours and only one beast is insane.

(I have 310 hours and have yet to make it to the ending)
I did spend a lot of time on the plateau, but probably not that much time.

So far, I've done 48 Shrines, 350 Seeds, and I've got about 900 Chuchu Jellies in my inventory. According to the map, there's still eight zones I haven't set foot on.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
Kinda feel bad for people in here thinking that wiiu was the only console holding botw back graphically.

Please enlighten us about how a console with a 4x CPU advantage, 4x memory advantage and a 2x GPU advantage over WiiU hardware held back a WiiU game...

BotW is a WiiU port, done no less in a very short time frame (which explains the fact the Switch version was very unoptimised at launch, fixed a few weeks later with a patch).

A built from the ground up Zelda game for Switch would blow BotW away visually.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Please enlighten us about how a console with a 4x CPU advantage, 4x memory advantage and a 2x GPU advantage over WiiU hardware held back a WiiU game...

BotW is a WiiU port done no less in a very short time frame (which explains the fact it was very unoptimised at launch, fixed a few weeks later with a patch).

A built for Switch, Zelda would blow BotW away visually.
Portable mode.
 

Painguy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,024
California
Still has more 4x the RAM and has more effective memory bandwidth thanks to compression hardware on maxwell chips. Has symmetric cpu cores with a better cache config and 1 extra core and so on. Not a huge difference but one that definitely allows for better textures at the very least. Engineer on the game said they didn't bother optimizing for switch at all.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Still has more 4x the RAM and has more effective memory bandwidth thanks to compression hardware on maxwell chips. Has symmetric cpu cores with a better cache config and 1 extra core and so on. Not a huge difference but one that definitely allows for better textures at the very least. Engineer on the game said they didn't bother optimizing for switch at all.
So a game like Mario odissey can be taken as gold standard of what to expect of rock textures in the next Zelda game, right? What do people think of the quality of rock texture in that game?
 

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,486
I remember thinking this when playing as well, and if I remember correctly the rock textures on Death Mountain look a lot better compared to the rock textures in grassy plains. I guess they just got more attention since that is the entirety of that area.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
5,049
I was climbing a mountain yesterday collecting rushrooms and I thought the same thing. Like man, these are big-ass polygons and the texture is pretty basic. You do spend a non-negligeable portion of time climbing, could be better.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,666
So a game like Mario odissey can be taken as gold standard of what to expect of rock textures in the next Zelda game, right? What do people think of the quality of rock texture in that game?

It's kind of a hybrid of cartoony and realistic. Still not particularly high-quality textures, but it's good enough.

CrY4L0p.jpg
 

methodiczero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
San Diego
I haven't played it since release, so I cant really saw, but i think i remember thinking that they could have used a little more normal mapping to give the rocks a little more detail. I remember thinking that it made total sense that Link would slip down them when it was raining cause they were so smooth
 

Ayirek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
So a game like Mario odissey can be taken as gold standard of what to expect of rock textures in the next Zelda game, right? What do people think of the quality of rock texture in that game?
Yup a game with hugely stylized, cartoony graphics that are vastly different from BotW is the gold standard on what to expect for the next Zelda games graphics.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,154
Up front I would say that it's a few things:
A. Based around WiiU hardware
B. First open world game
C. Nintendo keeps strict budgets and doesn't spend time on getting fully detailed with graphics, particularly since they tend towards cartoony styled games with their EPD games. Their texture work has never been particularly good for the most part, outside of the stuff Retro does.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Yup a game with hugely stylized, cartoony graphics that are vastly different from BotW is the gold standard on what to expect for the next Zelda games graphics.
I don't think the next Zelda will look like BotW, and I also think they won't go more realistic, so you might actually be right even though you wanted to be sarcastic lol.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Yeah, some of those rock textures look pretty bad. But then again, Death Mountain has really great rock and ground textures.
Well, must be due to Wii U's ram limitations.

BOTW 2 will blow BOTW 1 away.
 

Fendajaz

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,123
I really hope they do a Majora's Mask-esque sequel. Have a smaller world, about 5 dungeons. More interesting characters/hub world, better graphics.