That one person is directly ignoring appeals to listen to the many patient and articulate responses they got and replying with dismissive snubs, and they have a history of similar behaviour on Era.
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Why do some cisgender people hate the term cisgender?
- Thread starter Ryo Hazuki
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Lol, this feels aggressive.
But to answer your question, no. Women are great. I only thought of the question from a male perspective, because the only people I've ever heard complain about irl were men; and that was the reason given. My apologies if I offended you with my phrasing.
Congratulations!
The straights totally will look at you as one of the good ones!
Plenty of people over 30 use it.
Unfortunately, it only seems to be the people who are actively attempting to listen to trans, non-binary, and other affected people who do. The majority of people either aren't interested or actively oppose us.
I mean that mods should probably have received 178 flags on this thread and they might be taking their time in the 170 ones that came before this dude
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And those men are probably casually misogynistic and well transphobic.
If trans people can deal with the violence and hate they get on a daily basis...
You can deal with the word.
Come on, no one is going to call you Cis— in an everyday conversation, after introducing yourself. You know what she meant by "nah"
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In thinking about this some, I think the best argument against "cisgender" is it captures both people who actually affirmatively identify with their gender assigned at birth in the same way that a trans person does the opposite AND people that don't really have any strong ties to gender and gender identity as a concept but use their assigned gender just to function the most easily in society. It's not really in the spirit of our increasingly broad conceptualization of gender identity to conflate these two different people into one label.
I consider myself more in the latter group. I increasingly don't see myself as affirmatively identifying as a "man" these days. Frankly I don't think I'm ever going to be non-binary or any other gender but still call myself a man to get along because that's the path of least resistance. Does that make me "cis" in the same way someone assigned female at birth has never thought of themselves as anything but a woman, loves being a woman, feels belonging as a woman, etc.? In other words, trans people don't seem to really really be incidentally the gender they transition to -- it's almost always a big part of them -- while cisgender all the time just kind of are their gender because society, even if they never really bought into it. And yet the terms are meant to mirror each other.
I consider myself more in the latter group. I increasingly don't see myself as affirmatively identifying as a "man" these days. Frankly I don't think I'm ever going to be non-binary or any other gender but still call myself a man to get along because that's the path of least resistance. Does that make me "cis" in the same way someone assigned female at birth has never thought of themselves as anything but a woman, loves being a woman, feels belonging as a woman, etc.? In other words, trans people don't seem to really really be incidentally the gender they transition to -- it's almost always a big part of them -- while cisgender all the time just kind of are their gender because society, even if they never really bought into it. And yet the terms are meant to mirror each other.
If you are referring to sex assigned at birth, that has nothing to do with gender.
Also, there is parity between cis and trans as Latin prefixes.
You really can't change one without changing the other and have the language make logical sense. But you could just as easily come up with better-sounding versions for each that still relate to each other.
Having only the majority change how it's described, thus leaving the minority with a "different-sounding" descriptor that's no longer in linguistic relation, just reinforces bigotry and otherness.
I read it. You can push back against people not liking the term, but in a thread about people not liking the term, it's counterproductive. It's important to recognize that some people support the idea but dislike the term. And it's valid for people to feel that way.
There were plenty of assumptions throughout the thread that disdain for the term all originates with transphobia. Conflating two very different viewpoints doesn't help anyone.
I am 31 and can confirm.
I wish more people listened to trans and non-binary voices. Dismissing their voices is incredibly messed up.
....that is not what cisgender mean
you either align with your assigned at birth sex or you don't
Some non binary people and bigender people BY DEFINITION aligns a LITTLE with their birth sex and they are NOT cisgender
The problem is that cisgender wasn't adapted as quickly as heterosexual was to homosexual. I am still having a hard time hearing news outlets saying "Latinx" because it is a very recent change.
We have heard the word transgender for decades now and only recently has cisgender been actively used. One thing that would help is news outlets recognizing the term, which I have yet to hear any acknowledgement of it from them.
We have heard the word transgender for decades now and only recently has cisgender been actively used. One thing that would help is news outlets recognizing the term, which I have yet to hear any acknowledgement of it from them.
It is not describing people like yourself, though. It is literally for people who identify that way, not questioning.
There are terms like gender fluid, non-binary, etc... that cater to what you're describing, and you're the one who gets to define that for yourself.
For sure, which is why I suggested reporting and moving on. I was just posting a tongue in cheek post playing on slipping/sleeping since they're probably busy. We just had a thread about when (if?) the mods sleep so was just a goofy post while having someone shit up the thread intentionally. Wasn't meant with sincere anger or malice.
Seems he's been sent to the shadow realm though, so kudos to the mods on hand for dealing with it 💜
The apprehension is rooted in transphobia and a selfish need to be the normal people
I'd guess (as a cis dude) is that it's because they think it makes them 'different', not the 'default' etc
Which is dumb.
Which is dumb.
I definitely blame chemistry, specifically. It kicked my ass so hard I never even saw this prefix the multiple times I was taking the courses.
If after it's explained there's still any apprehension it's now intended as disrespect to trans folk.
You'd have to ask first whether you want them both to still be linguistically related. For reasons I posted above, I'd say yes. Having that as a postulate, you'd need to come up with new names for both.
Basically, sure, ditch the Greek and try to come up with a new scheme.
So you're saying if you're trans, you can never be wrong? Even if just for an instant on a bad day?
Shit happens... Being on this forum, the 'whose bitch this is?' video comes to mind.
People are fine with straight/heterosexual because that's what we've always known.
Give cis another thousand years and this topic probably won't be a thing anymore.
"I've never heard it in person."
Congrats, that means you're probably surrounded by people that all identify as cisgender and therefore likely never need to bring it up. It also means your peers likely don't talk about gender issues at all, for better or for worse.
Worst case scenario? Someone close to you is in the closet about their gender identity and doesn't feel comfortable expressing that around you and your peers.
The incredible privilege to come into this thread and say something like that is astonishing.
Congrats, that means you're probably surrounded by people that all identify as cisgender and therefore likely never need to bring it up. It also means your peers likely don't talk about gender issues at all, for better or for worse.
Worst case scenario? Someone close to you is in the closet about their gender identity and doesn't feel comfortable expressing that around you and your peers.
The incredible privilege to come into this thread and say something like that is astonishing.
I'm trans and never wrong
So checks out.
Weird straight hasn't been around for 1000 years.
I was assigned male at birth. I use he/him pronouns. I present very masculine because I'm not out to everyone. I'm definitely not cis, and honestly when I started critically thinking about my gender, that's how I identified. "Not cis."
Anyway, what I'm trying to get it is that gender isn't just presentation and pronouns. And there are a shitload of flavors of gender that aren't cis. All cis means is that it matches the sex you were assigned at birth.
They said almost always, not always.
And they'd be right.
It's still massively hypocritical.
That's actually a great point. Latinx is also a term I haven't heard used much at all. It's almost as if that identifier has failed to be accepted, or just hasn't had the time to gain legitimacy.
That's probably why trying to change "cisgender" to something else at this point will only delay its normalization. Seems counterproductive to progress.
From my personal experience, I thought it was not a serious thing at first.
Ignorance isn't always accompanied with bad intentions. I personally needed to see the term used more often to understand it's real meaning.
Am I really questioning though? I have near full confidence I will never present anything other than man. I really just don't care about gender. It was my impression that was definitely what we would call a cisgender person.
I don't think it's weird at all for me to say how I could potentially understand how someone wouldn't like how they are being given a label that others have decided is for them ? I'm not saying in anyway I agree , but I'd hope I could use a personal experience to try and get some idea as to why they'd feel that way ?
Works for me because cis people really need to cut it out with their transphobia
Birth gender doesn't make sense
A lot of people showing their privilege in this thread.
"Non-trans people should be the default."
"I don't care for labels."
"I wish an alternative or synonym was used!"
"I don't like the way it sounds!"
"Why do we need a term for it?"
"The trans community uses it to imply transphobia about people who aren't trans!"
...
Seriously?
It's honestly infuriating and insulting to keep reading these kinds of posts. It's also veering (or plunging head first) into transphobia too.
Understand the following statement: When a group, near universally regarded as more privileged, is considered the default or the normal, the other group automatically becomes marginalized by association. Yes, said group is the majority. But that doesn't necessarily mean they should be the "default" in people's minds. By doing this, you demean our struggle to be seen with respect and to be seen as equals. You downplay the scientific and philosophical importance of having terms like this. Perhaps most noticeably, however, you give significant power and ammunition to the worst of the bigots and transphobes. Which lets them hurt us even more, and take away our rights and our dignity.
The term "cisgender" has an important context within relevant discussions. It's not a slur, and it's been used for years. You don't care about labels? Good, you're very unlike to hear it used in regular conversation anyhow. I can count the amount of times that I, a trans person, have heard it in a context that wasn't relevant and wasn't also an attempt at bigotry. You ask why do we need a term for it? Because the distinction is important. Like "heterosexual" vs "homosexual" or "straight" vs "gay." And guess what? Those terms have importance within their relevant context too.
You've never heard the word used before? We live in cultures and societies that are inherently transphobic. This is especially true if you're from the UK, where transphobes have gained a significant foothold regarding the messaging about transgender people. How many discussions on JK Rowling and the influence she's had over TERFs have we had at Era?
You don't like the way it sounds? What exactly is so offending to you about a commonly used Latin prefix? We use them all the time in our culture. What is so special about this ONE SPECIFIC WORD that it bothers you so much?
You wish there was an alternative or synonym to use, but you've never once in your life suggested what that alternative might be? Well why not engage that conversation if you really feel it should be alternative? I personally have never once heard this argument made in good faith and/or had the person also stick around to actually discuss what might be an appropriate alternative.
Trans people use it as a "pejorative"? You don't like it when we use it in regards to cisgender people? Probably because so many people love to downplay our struggles. Often over the pettiest of things. We experience discrimination almost EVERY DAY of our lives. In places that you would never expect to be discriminated against.
I got discriminated against three times today at work alone, just because people heard my name and my voice didn't quite match the picture in their head. I also got "Sir'd" by several people despite introducing myself with an obviously feminine first name, often seconds after the fact. It's demoralizing and disillusioning. And now you're saying we use it as a pejorative?
Might want to check yourself there if that is the kind of argument you're making.
Cisgender isn't going anywhere as a word. It's here to stay, barring a significant cultural shift in the English language. You can either get over your silly issues with it and help us normalize it, so trans people can be seen as valid and legitimate. Or you can continue to engage in actions that hurt us and give our worst enemies more firepower to hurt us too.
"Non-trans people should be the default."
"I don't care for labels."
"I wish an alternative or synonym was used!"
"I don't like the way it sounds!"
"Why do we need a term for it?"
"The trans community uses it to imply transphobia about people who aren't trans!"
...
Seriously?
It's honestly infuriating and insulting to keep reading these kinds of posts. It's also veering (or plunging head first) into transphobia too.
Understand the following statement: When a group, near universally regarded as more privileged, is considered the default or the normal, the other group automatically becomes marginalized by association. Yes, said group is the majority. But that doesn't necessarily mean they should be the "default" in people's minds. By doing this, you demean our struggle to be seen with respect and to be seen as equals. You downplay the scientific and philosophical importance of having terms like this. Perhaps most noticeably, however, you give significant power and ammunition to the worst of the bigots and transphobes. Which lets them hurt us even more, and take away our rights and our dignity.
The term "cisgender" has an important context within relevant discussions. It's not a slur, and it's been used for years. You don't care about labels? Good, you're very unlike to hear it used in regular conversation anyhow. I can count the amount of times that I, a trans person, have heard it in a context that wasn't relevant and wasn't also an attempt at bigotry. You ask why do we need a term for it? Because the distinction is important. Like "heterosexual" vs "homosexual" or "straight" vs "gay." And guess what? Those terms have importance within their relevant context too.
You've never heard the word used before? We live in cultures and societies that are inherently transphobic. This is especially true if you're from the UK, where transphobes have gained a significant foothold regarding the messaging about transgender people. How many discussions on JK Rowling and the influence she's had over TERFs have we had at Era?
You don't like the way it sounds? What exactly is so offending to you about a commonly used Latin prefix? We use them all the time in our culture. What is so special about this ONE SPECIFIC WORD that it bothers you so much?
You wish there was an alternative or synonym to use, but you've never once in your life suggested what that alternative might be? Well why not engage that conversation if you really feel it should be alternative? I personally have never once heard this argument made in good faith and/or had the person also stick around to actually discuss what might be an appropriate alternative.
Trans people use it as a "pejorative"? You don't like it when we use it in regards to cisgender people? Probably because so many people love to downplay our struggles. Often over the pettiest of things. We experience discrimination almost EVERY DAY of our lives. In places that you would never expect to be discriminated against.
I got discriminated against three times today at work alone, just because people heard my name and my voice didn't quite match the picture in their head. I also got "Sir'd" by several people despite introducing myself with an obviously feminine first name, often seconds after the fact. It's demoralizing and disillusioning. And now you're saying we use it as a pejorative?
Might want to check yourself there if that is the kind of argument you're making.
Cisgender isn't going anywhere as a word. It's here to stay, barring a significant cultural shift in the English language. You can either get over your silly issues with it and help us normalize it, so trans people can be seen as valid and legitimate. Or you can continue to engage in actions that hurt us and give our worst enemies more firepower to hurt us too.
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I personally don't care if they are connected linguistically. Gay and straight aren't, and people who don't identify as cis often identify as gender fluid, non binary, etc which also don't fit a single linguistically mold.
If cisgendered people who prefer another adjective want one... do one. The problem is the only alternatives I ever see are "nothing" (implied default) or "normal" or a synonym to that effect.
But the apprehension is rooted in transphobia. It's literally just our version of hetero/straight
Cis isn't a slur.
You said you don't identify fully with "man", right?
Then you're not cisgender.
A cisgender person is someone who would say they do.
It also seems like a term that isn't going to last very long. I grew up in a very heavy Hispanic/Latino community and don't know a single person who likes/prefers it. There's a very heavy sentiment that it's not needed and was just invented by white progressives for... reasons.
Progressive Latino pollster: Trust me. Latinos do not identify with “Latinx”
One of the greatest challenges facing marketing departments and political campaigns today is the inability to discern signals from noise…
thinknowtweets.medium.com
Do you not care about gender, or do you not care about *your* gender? If the former, stop that and care please. If the latter, you're not cis because you don't identify as or with any gender (in fact, you could probably call yourself "agender" if you want a label). To be cis is to specifically care about being the same gender you were assigned at birth.
Honestly the first time I heard the term was in South Park, when Mr. Garrison was explaining it to Principal Victoria and Mr. Mackey. I honestly thought it was a term they'd made up for the episode. That probably doesn't say good things about me.
I have no feelings about the word either way.
I have no feelings about the word either way.
If it's explained to you and your reaction is oh it's not serious you're now willfully ignorant
It also seems like a term that isn't going to last very long. I grew up in a very heavy Latino community and don't know a single person who likes/prefers it. There's a very heavy sentiment that it's not needed and was just invented by white progressives for... reasons.
Survey: Only 2% of Hispanics Prefer the Politically Correct Term 'Latinx'
"Latinx," the progressive, gender-neutral alternative to Latino/Latina, is a favorite of campus activists and ethnic studies departments. But among the…reason.com
On top of that, I've met plenty in the community (myself included) who argue that "Latine" is the better alternative for representing those of us outside the gender binary.
Does it though? I don't get how people think it sounds bad. Is it an accent thing?
Yeah. A lot of people in the community(myself included as well) are of opinion that a gender neutral word is nice to have, but that Latinx sounds fucking terrible. Latine is a much much better word.
It has been explained in this thread more than adequately to understand.
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