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Jul 4, 2018
1,888
A decent amount of the reason will be influence from the western animation industry in the early days that just stuck around.

For instance from Tezuka Osamu (creator of Astro Boy which is one of the first popular Manga/anime works) Wikipedia page:

He invented the distinctive "large eyes" style of Japanese animation,[29]drawing inspiration from Western cartoons and animated films of the time such as Betty Boop, Mickey Mouse, and other Disneymovies.
 

Striferser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,601
if they want to show caucasian/white (but mostly american) characters, they will draw it differently than the main cast.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
Japan loves american culture. You can maybe trace a lot of it back to McArthur and America's defeat and subsequential handling of Japan post-WW2, but you can see it in fashion, food, etc. etc.

Japan fashion in particular is incredibly obseesed with Americana, Hip Hop and punk (Which yes I know is Briitsh, but it's another example of their western obsession).

www.smithsonianmag.com

How Japan Copied American Culture and Made it Better

If you’re looking for some of America’s best bourbon, denim and burgers, go to Japan, where designers are re-engineering our culture in loving detail

Kind of similar to how the Korean War really affected Korean culture.
 
Last edited:

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,829
Good point. It could be interpreted that way.

But at the very least, he sees Sasuke more soldily Asian than Naruto/Sakura even though it may be because he has a more typical Japanese look than Naruto & Sakura do.

From what I remember, Luffy is meant to be Latino, Usopp is black, Zoro is Japanese while Nami, Sanji, Robin and Franky are white.

I can't remember Brook.

It always feels very off the cuff, both of their answers in particular.

It's not that it's impossible that either Oda and Kishimoto couldn't have thought about the diversity of their world but typically when dealing with "fictional worlds" unless it's some fringe case where the features of the character is clearly trying to portray another ethnicity that everyone in their works is supposed to be Japanese. Regardless if they have blonde hair and blue eyes. Even in real-life settings you get characters who are naturally blonde hair and blue eyed and live in a victorian style house but are still 100% ethnically Japanese.

So *shrugs*
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Cause they have history of thinking that's the ideal.
220px-Adolf_Hitler_meets_with_the_Japanese_ambassador_Hiroshi_Oshima_1942.jpg
Most of the attitudes towards brown races that are currently prevalent in Japan are a mixture of ideas that come from the earliest interactions with Dutch traders in Nagasaki up to the way the American occupation imposed its own ideas of racial structure, particularly since the US Army and Navy were segregated back then. It's fun to mock Imperial Japan's alliance with the Axis Powers (and deservedly so), but laser-focusing on that instead of how centuries of racial inequality have seeped from the West into the islands is missing the forest for the trees.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
You guys are really trying to speedrun the gamut of racism while the Asian-Era meeting is going on, and I'd be impressed if I wasn't so fucking exhausted with this fucking forum.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,757
And people wonder why anime is seen as a shield for alt-right types, when they can lazily hide behind, "those are coincidences."
You guys are really trying to speedrun the gamut of racism while the Asian-Era meeting is going on, and I'd be impressed if I wasn't so fucking exhausted with this fucking forum.
??????????

How is talking about Japan's documented history with the western influence of racism.... racism?
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
Though honestly it's kind of a feedback loop in a lot of ways. Like Japan takes from western culture and remixed it, which is then subsequantly consumed by western culture.

Like how Bape is first inspired by Hip hop culture but then got co-opted by Hip Hop while becoming the face of Japanese Street culture.

Pharrell-Williams-with-Ni-001.jpg
 
May 29, 2020
10
I've noticed that Asian characters in games rarely have black hair, mostly light brown, which they don't tend to have.
 
OP
OP
DragonSJG

DragonSJG

Banned
Mar 4, 2019
14,341
it's also games too
Final Fantasy has Cloud
Zero in Megaman
A lot of games with Japanese devs have white protagonists like Devil May Cry/Resident Evil
 
Jun 17, 2019
2,182
I know anime is made for a Japanese audience and thus, these characters are written as japanese. However, something I've been wondering for a while, like in anime like DBZ, Naruto, Sailor Moon and many more, why are so many of these characters blonde? I know anime characters have like hair not found in real life, so is it reflective of that or something?

Okay so there's a lot here to unpack, but in a lot of cases it's not as weird as you might think in regard to the hair coloring. There's a few reasons, some of which has been listed here:

Inking being easier by making the hair non colored in panels and also it allows for more styles and designs in the hair when you don't color it.

Traditionally there's ties to western cartoons, but manga was also heavily influenced by Kamishibai, or paper theater, . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamishibai

Could also be that the artist just likes blonde hair, or they're trying to show the character was from a different nation, or the creator wants to make the character seem exotic.

But another aspect to consider is the idea of color representing something important or divine. Yellow has a lot of meanings in Japan and East Asia. So I want to focus on that really fast with certain characters.

Goku and Sailor Moon both have yellow hair possibly due to the fact that they're supposed to be not human characters. Both Usagi and Goku are from other worlds, specifically space for both and both have ties to Japanese folklore of powerful beings, Usagi connected to the idea of moon maids like Princess Kaguya and Goku to Son Wukong from Journey to the West.

So about the color:

The color gold, or ki, is the symbol of the sun, and of the gods' power and mercy. Gold is often used at temples and shrines.
https://en.japantravel.com/blog/symbolic-colors-in-japan/61005

Both Usagi and Goku, and even Naruto are all beings that are seen as powerful and have god like abilities. You can even tie that into the gold colors used in work for the sun goddess Amataratsu. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Amaterasu_cave_crop.jpg
I don't want to go too much into the history of shinto, but gold is used in works depicting the gods. The wikipedia article about her should cover why the sun is so very important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu

Another important aspect is the connection of yellow to those in power and bravery. Again, if you notice all three characters are the main leads, have significant powers that allow for them to lead, and are seen as brave and strong heads of their respective groups. All of this has ties into the history of how yellow and gold was used for the clan leaders and into the Emperors family as well.

Unlike western cultures where yellow is linked to cowardice and treachery, Japanese culture associates yellow with bravery, wealth and refinement. During the War of the Dynasties in 1357 warriors wore yellow chrysanthemums as a way of representing the Japanese emperor and the royal family.Yellow dye was traditionally made by extracting the dye particles from kariyasu grass. Kariyasu grass grows in mountain regions and protects itself from ultraviolet rays by producing a clear bright yellow colour.
https://modernarchive.de/blogs/news/kimono-colours-and-meanings

I would recommend people look into color hierarchy in regard to Japan, and most east Asian cultures as colors have a significance to roles in society and status, and in some cases can, and does, translate into why certain characters have blonde hair and why others don't.

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/color-in-japan/ -site covers a lot of the cultural history of colors in Japan and how they work with clothing and art.

https://www.six-degrees.com/pdf/International-Color-Symbolism-Chart.pdf -a site that covers international colors and symbolism. Yellow here means the following,
sacredness, sovereignty, earth, power, royalty, sun, happiness, masculinity
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_colors_of_Japan -page covers all the colors for Traditional Japanese colors.

Hope this clears a bit up.
 
OP
OP
DragonSJG

DragonSJG

Banned
Mar 4, 2019
14,341
Okay so there's a lot here to unpack, but in a lot of cases it's not as weird as you might think in regard to the hair coloring. There's a few reasons, some of which has been listed here:

Inking being easier by making the hair non colored in panels and also it allows for more styles and designs in the hair when you don't color it.

Traditionally there's ties to western cartoons, but manga was also heavily influenced by Kamishibai, or paper theater, . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamishibai

Could also be that the artist just likes blonde hair, or they're trying to show the character was from a different nation, or the creator wants to make the character seem exotic.

But another aspect to consider is the idea of color representing something important or divine. Yellow has a lot of meanings in Japan and East Asia. So I want to focus on that really fast with certain characters.

Goku and Sailor Moon both have yellow hair possibly due to the fact that they're supposed to be not human characters. Both Usagi and Goku are from other worlds, specifically space for both and both have ties to Japanese folklore of powerful beings, Usagi connected to the idea of moon maids like Princess Kaguya and Goku to Son Wukong from Journey to the West.

So about the color:


https://en.japantravel.com/blog/symbolic-colors-in-japan/61005

Both Usagi and Goku, and even Naruto are all beings that are seen as powerful and have god like abilities. You can even tie that into the gold colors used in work for the sun goddess Amataratsu. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Amaterasu_cave_crop.jpg
I don't want to go too much into the history of shinto, but gold is used in works depicting the gods. The wikipedia article about her should cover why the sun is so very important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu

Another important aspect is the connection of yellow to those in power and bravery. Again, if you notice all three characters are the main leads, have significant powers that allow for them to lead, and are seen as brave and strong heads of their respective groups. All of this has ties into the history of how yellow and gold was used for the clan leaders and into the Emperors family as well.


https://modernarchive.de/blogs/news/kimono-colours-and-meanings

I would recommend people look into color hierarchy in regard to Japan, and most east Asian cultures as colors have a significance to roles in society and status, and in some cases can, and does, translate into why certain characters have blonde hair and why others don't.

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/color-in-japan/ -site covers a lot of the cultural history of colors in Japan and how they work with clothing and art.

https://www.six-degrees.com/pdf/International-Color-Symbolism-Chart.pdf -a site that covers international colors and symbolism. Yellow here means the following, .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_colors_of_Japan -page covers all the colors for Traditional Japanese colors.

Hope this clears a bit up.
You have to address the other racist topics mentioned in this thread though
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,582
Racoon City
Like why would anyone think a character named "Uzumaki Naruto" or "Usagi Tsukino" is white is beyond me. Meanwhile, in western fiction and cartoons, characters be having any and all colors under the rainbow and no one questions what they are because of their hair color. It's weird

I think a better question is...why do you all default characters to "white"? Talk about inflated sense of self

Anyone know about the term mukokuseki? I heard that Japanese people see them as Japanese, not white

I mean in a country that is 99% Japanese, why would they see characters as/default characters to white?
 
OP
OP
DragonSJG

DragonSJG

Banned
Mar 4, 2019
14,341
Like why would anyone think a character named "Uzumaki Naruto" or "Usagi Tsukino" is white is beyond me. Meanwhile, in western fiction and cartoons, characters be having any and all colors under the rainbow and no one questions what they are because of their hair color. It's weird

I think a better question is...why do you all default characters to "white"? Talk about inflated sense of self



I mean in a country that is 99% Japanese, why would they see characters as/default characters to white?
Again blonde hair/blue eyes
read articles posted
 
Jun 17, 2019
2,182
You have to address the other racist topics mentioned in this thread though

I need some clarification here. In your OP you sspecify asking about the hair color. it was under my impression that you were looking for information about hair color. And are you referring to the Japan Times OP Ed peice.

If you are than yes White washing is a huge problem, and I cant go into it now due to internet outage by me, as I'm right now on my phone, and it's hard to write on it for long posts. Maybe other articles can give otherhistoical perspective.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
As an Asian, I always found it really fucking weird how characters go from looking Asian to looking Aryan in their powered up forms in DBZ.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
I think it started with easily representing european people or hafu in manga and anime. The Devilman manga(1972) comes to mind where Ryo has blond hair and other shoujo manga of the time that covered present or historical european settings where the idea was that half of europe was blond and blue eyed people(well that idea still persists).

To be honest I think shoujo artists are the biggest reasons. They always featured blond and blue eyed white people(even japanese sometimes). Whereas shounen manga in the 60s and 70s mainly featured japanese boys with black hair which is still among the most common depictions today. Josei and Shoujo on the other hand still feature a lot of female japanese characters in realistic settings with blond or brown hair and large eyes.
 
Last edited:

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,187
Most of the attitudes towards brown races that are currently prevalent in Japan are a mixture of ideas that come from the earliest interactions with Dutch traders in Nagasaki up to the way the American occupation imposed its own ideas of racial structure, particularly since the US Army and Navy were segregated back then. It's fun to mock Imperial Japan's alliance with the Axis Powers (and deservedly so), but laser-focusing on that instead of how centuries of racial inequality have seeped from the West into the islands is missing the forest for the trees.
I'm not sure about this analysis. There's been records of Japan's widespread colorism long before interaction with western countries. Tanned skin was mark of being a commoner and other negative sterotypes and then there's the discrimination occurred against the indigenious ainu peoples. It's not historically recent at all.
 

AYZON

Member
Oct 29, 2017
908
Germany
I think that is because hair color is often tied to character traits. Like how in western media the typical "badass" woman has to have a sidecut and red hair and a red haired dude is made fun of.

So your typical "normal" woman has to have blonde hair and men have to either have black short hair or long brown hair.
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,244
In terms of Sailor Moon...people making comments about "idealization" must have not seen the show or read the manga. Yes she is the main character and blonde, but out of the 10 characters, only two of them are blonde - and both of them are airheaded/ditzy. In fact, the one that is described as the most beautiful one (in the manga at least), is Sailor Mars - who is the traditional Japanese Shinto priestess with long black hair and dark eyes.

As someone else explained, Usagi's hair is blonde because she's a reincarnation of the "moon princess." The author originally wanted her hair to be silver, but was told that was too plain for a manga cover and switched it to blonde to standout more.
 

Deleted member 9932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,711
blonde characters in naruto: naruto, 4th; deidara, 5th, ino and the windy girl from sand village. Who am I missing from the regular characters? Everyone else isn't blonde. It's hardly prominent.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
I don't think it's as common as you think honestly. Like blonde hair in anime is probably as common as pink or blue hair in anime. And with the examples people have posted it's maybe one or two main characters a series where blonde is their hair color. I think we might be looking for something that isn't really there
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,885
I mean, when you live in a country where most of the population has dark hair, using blonde hair would feel a good way to make a character stand out. I guess.

And in an art form that started in black and white (and still is), saving on the big blobs of black on the heads of your characters must be very tempting. It's easier to have a good contrast with a black background if your character doesn't have a dark hair for instance.
 

Saduj

Banned
Jul 30, 2019
90
Interesting thought, but without data such as "percentage of different hair colors in a series", it comes of as speculative.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
And also, if we talk about blonde anime characters, we also have to consider how many series take place in "the west" or some fantasy version of it. Like Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, where blonde characters would be more common.
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
And people wonder why anime is seen as a shield for alt-right types, when they can lazily hide behind, "those are coincidences."

??????????

How is talking about Japan's documented history with the western influence of racism.... racism?

It doesn't matter if it's described in the context of psuedo-wokeness, and I honestly would encourage you guys to talk to your Asian friends if you actually have any, but to many of us, these characters are not read as white unless the setting allows for it, and I'm tired of this patronizing insistence that we need to look like fucking racist caricatures to find ourselves in such media.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,212
I would read it coming from myths and stories. Characters would get white/blonde hair to show purity or new stages of power/omnipotence. Blonde just became another way to connect said character to old tales of heroes. Same as if a character is "corrupted" they may get darker skin.

Obv a series like Attack on Titan that draws parallels from the real world may not follow that idea of pure/myth for its characters.

china's never been 'colonized' by the west (not in the traditional sense) and they prefers 'fairer' skin as well.

It's not 'western-envy'. It's more of 'class' based envyness.

In china and countries with majority ethnic chinese (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore basically), the fairer skin a person is, the more supposed 'higher class' is..the thinking because a tanned/darker person works in the field/out in the sun and thus from the 'lower' class. That's why many chinese, especially the ladies, are obsessed with fairer whiter skin. Nothing to do with 'western-centric' sensibilities and thinking and racial bias and preferences. i can't speak for japanese (& Koreans) but i reckoned they got something similiar in terms of skin-tone preferences, not due to 'race', but due to 'class'.

Contrary to popular believes, the world doesn't starts and ends with 'western' perspectives

P.S. Am chinese myself.
This as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,757
It doesn't matter if it's described in the context of psuedo-wokeness, and I honestly would encourage you guys to talk to your Asian friends if you actually have any, but to many of us, these characters are not read as white unless the setting allows for it, and I'm tired of this patronizing insistence that we need to look like fucking racist caricatures to find ourselves in such media.
And I'm tired of this BS assumption of "pseudo-wokeness". It's the laziest response to legitimate grievances, especially when it comes from PoC. I don't have to be "pseudo-woke" when I live with and around this.

Talking about Japan's past and present with racism isn't some virtue signaling exercise for me. It's a push to normalize people and features like mine, so I can feel more seen in the media I consume. I'm not even talking about how people perceive the ethnicities of anime characters, but WHY artists settled on the features they did. And who the hell is telling anime to adopt gross caricatures of Asians? No one is telling manga artists to treat Asian characters like they treat other minorities. The whole point of understanding the current status quo is to prevent FURTHER caricatures being seen as acceptable within the medium.
 

Deleted member 48828

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 21, 2018
731
I don't disagree that, like most of the world, Japan has white-idealized beauty standards. But I have to ask, why would we expect all of the characters in a fantasy show like Sailor Moon have exclusively black hair? Realism? The medium would seem to invite as many hair colors as possible?

There's usually one or two blond characters per show, but I'm not really seeing the issue with the existence of it. Trying to tell Japanese people their characters are white if they don't draw their characters in this or that style is also iffy.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,406
I don't disagree that, like most of the world, Japan has white-idealized beauty standards. But I have to ask, why would we expect all of the characters in a fantasy show like Sailor Moon have exclusively black hair? Realism? The medium would seem to invite as many hair colors as possible?
Yeah, I feel like hair is actually a pretty good indicator to know if an anime/manga tries for realism or not.
 
Jun 17, 2019
2,182
You have to address the other racist topics mentioned in this thread though

Since you didn't respond to the question I asked, I'm going to assume you meant the article that was posted by Dr. Russell from Gifu University. I should note that I read his other articles as well, and he's written several academic papers on the subject matter of being black in Japan. I've provided links to the articles and other material below if you want to check it out. One is a google list that has details and a panel listed on Youtube with other members of the Japan Times writers and a well known Youtuber.

https://gifu-u.academia.edu/JohnRussell -academic articles, a number are written in Japanese.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/author/john-g-russell/ -Dr. Russell's articles for Japan Times

Google search link to a number of articles by Dr. Russell and a panel on Youtube about the blackface in Japan -the panel is the very first one.

In regard to the article itself it's a very good piece that covers a lot of modern issues in regard to not just Japan but the East Asian experience for darker skinned individuals that live there. However there are a few things that I do think that needs to be discussed in regard to the history of what shaped the Japanese culture regarding different races and their view point. One thing of note is that while I do see where he's coming from with his sources, and I would agree that certain factors do become more predominant after the Sino- War, and the Meiji Restoration, due mostly to the proliferation of print making becoming more accessible and cheaper with mass production so it's easier for commoners to engage in the actions and views of the nobles of the period, I would like to point out that early adaptation of western fashion, art, and other factors stretch as far back as the Sengoku period and before with Merchants making contact with the west via the silk road trade in China and the, then, kingdoms of Korea, as Japan did ally with kingdoms in Korea as trading buddies.

Oda Nobunaga was known for working with the Jesuits, actively patroning them, and befriending some of them. He, and his men, heavily adapted western warfare (arquebuses), and he wore western clothing at times (namely the pants if I'm recalling the article), as well as carrying and using a gun in battle, which was later used by other noble lords. Date Masumune actively sent envoys to the Pope in the west as well. Aketchi Mitsuhida's daughter Gracie and Oda's brother in-law's sister Maria both were converts to Christianity during the Sengoku period.

If we're going to discuss the heavy influences then we have to look at the Dutch East Company, who were the only group allowed to Trade after Tokugawa's Shogunate pushed out most other countries. The Dutch had a large role in shaping Japan in regard to the world. Tokugawa Ieyasu was heavily interested in the likes of William Adams and Jan Joosten van Lodensteyn, both of whom are well respected as influencers in how Japan saw the west. Dutch Schools were a big deal during the Edo period, and even into the start of the Meiji period.

So while I heavily agree with a lot of this, we need to also look earlier for the influences of the west on Japanese culture. I would highly suggest for reading:

Samurai William by G. Milton -book covers about William and the time he served as a Samurai in Japan and the politics there.

African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke -excellent book on the subject of Yasuke, one of the only known black Samurai of the Oda clan

Another book on Yasuke by the same author -it's the first book of the two by the same author about Yasuke, which is going to be made into a movie.


I'm not sure about this analysis. There's been records of Japan's widespread colorism long before interaction with western countries. Tanned skin was mark of being a commoner and other negative sterotypes and then there's the discrimination occurred against the indigenious ainu peoples. It's not historically recent at all.

This is something that isn't talked about much at all in regard to Japan. The reason the Shoganate even exists is because of the battles with the Emishi people to the north, and the only manga that I can think of that actually covers the situation with the Ainu is the series Golden Kamui. I'm damn sure there are books on the subject from academia though. Colorism is a huge thing in Japan, and something that has been changing though over time. The recent Japan Sinks has a very interesting take on things and the characters and their role in the social issues of Japan play a really large part in the story. There is a diversifying of Japan, it's just slow because of how things were done in the past.

I think it started with easily representing european people or hafu in manga and anime. The Devilman manga(1972) comes to mind where Ryo has blond hair and other shoujo manga of the time that covered present or historical european settings where the idea was that half of europe was blond and blue eyed people(well that idea still persists).

To be honest I think shoujo artists are the biggest reasons. They always featured blond and blue eyed white people(even japanese sometimes). Whereas shounen manga in the 60s and 70s mainly featured japanese boys with black hair which is still among the most common depictions today. Josei and Shoujo on the other hand still feature a lot of female japanese characters in realistic settings with blond or brown hair and large eyes.

While I think Rose of Versailles, and Candy played a huge part in shaping Shojo and Josei art, and certainly the love of that period of time in Japanese fashion and design, I do have to note that the bigger influence in anime and manga came in the form of the Nippon World Classic's Theater, which ran shows like Heidi, Anne of Green Gables and A Dog of Flanders. Two of which are Alpine stories that came over to Japan during the restoration period and Anne is beloved in Japan being the first translated western novel for girls at the time. The influence of these shows also bleed into Ghibli as several of the most important members of the studio worked on these shows, namely Heidi, which to this day is referenced by anime shows and manga (see GinTama's jokes on it) and a lot of other Norther European children's works shaped readership in Japan as well early on in the mid 1800s, and then into the 1960s as it was getting adapted for anime.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Since you didn't respond to the question I asked, I'm going to assume you meant the article that was posted by Dr. Russell from Gifu University. I should note that I read his other articles as well, and he's written several academic papers on the subject matter of being black in Japan. I've provided links to the articles and other material below if you want to check it out. One is a google list that has details and a panel listed on Youtube with other members of the Japan Times writers and a well known Youtuber.

https://gifu-u.academia.edu/JohnRussell -academic articles, a number are written in Japanese.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/author/john-g-russell/ -Dr. Russell's articles for Japan Times

Google search link to a number of articles by Dr. Russell and a panel on Youtube about the blackface in Japan -the panel is the very first one.

In regard to the article itself it's a very good piece that covers a lot of modern issues in regard to not just Japan but the East Asian experience for darker skinned individuals that live there. However there are a few things that I do think that needs to be discussed in regard to the history of what shaped the Japanese culture regarding different races and their view point. One thing of note is that while I do see where he's coming from with his sources, and I would agree that certain factors do become more predominant after the Sino- War, and the Meiji Restoration, due mostly to the proliferation of print making becoming more accessible and cheaper with mass production so it's easier for commoners to engage in the actions and views of the nobles of the period, I would like to point out that early adaptation of western fashion, art, and other factors stretch as far back as the Sengoku period and before with Merchants making contact with the west via the silk road trade in China and the, then, kingdoms of Korea, as Japan did ally with kingdoms in Korea as trading buddies.

Oda Nobunaga was known for working with the Jesuits, actively patroning them, and befriending some of them. He, and his men, heavily adapted western warfare (arquebuses), and he wore western clothing at times (namely the pants if I'm recalling the article), as well as carrying and using a gun in battle, which was later used by other noble lords. Date Masumune actively sent envoys to the Pope in the west as well. Aketchi Mitsuhida's daughter Gracie and Oda's brother in-law's sister Maria both were converts to Christianity during the Sengoku period.

If we're going to discuss the heavy influences then we have to look at the Dutch East Company, who were the only group allowed to Trade after Tokugawa's Shogunate pushed out most other countries. The Dutch had a large role in shaping Japan in regard to the world. Tokugawa Ieyasu was heavily interested in the likes of William Adams and Jan Joosten van Lodensteyn, both of whom are well respected as influencers in how Japan saw the west. Dutch Schools were a big deal during the Edo period, and even into the start of the Meiji period.

So while I heavily agree with a lot of this, we need to also look earlier for the influences of the west on Japanese culture. I would highly suggest for reading:

Samurai William by G. Milton -book covers about William and the time he served as a Samurai in Japan and the politics there.

African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke -excellent book on the subject of Yasuke, one of the only known black Samurai of the Oda clan

Another book on Yasuke by the same author -it's the first book of the two by the same author about Yasuke, which is going to be made into a movie.




This is something that isn't talked about much at all in regard to Japan. The reason the Shoganate even exists is because of the battles with the Emishi people to the north, and the only manga that I can think of that actually covers the situation with the Ainu is the series Golden Kamui. I'm damn sure there are books on the subject from academia though. Colorism is a huge thing in Japan, and something that has been changing though over time. The recent Japan Sinks has a very interesting take on things and the characters and their role in the social issues of Japan play a really large part in the story. There is a diversifying of Japan, it's just slow because of how things were done in the past.



While I think Rose of Versailles, and Candy played a huge part in shaping Shojo and Josei art, and certainly the love of that period of time in Japanese fashion and design, I do have to note that the bigger influence in anime and manga came in the form of the Nippon World Classic's Theater, which ran shows like Heidi, Anne of Green Gables and A Dog of Flanders. Two of which are Alpine stories that came over to Japan during the restoration period and Anne is beloved in Japan being the first translated western novel for girls at the time. The influence of these shows also bleed into Ghibli as several of the most important members of the studio worked on these shows, namely Heidi, which to this day is referenced by anime shows and manga (see GinTama's jokes on it) and a lot of other Norther European children's works shaped readership in Japan as well early on in the mid 1800s, and then into the 1960s as it was getting adapted for anime.
Japan's fascination with all things european during the meiji and showa era definitely contributed to it. Though the trend of historical european settings in shoujo already started in the 50s and 60s before the classics series. Disney was already quite popular in Japan too with Toei Animation trying to become the Disney of the east.

I think this obsession with europe at the time even had a name.
 

Shining Star

Banned
May 14, 2019
4,458
Well two of the things you mentioned take place in fantasy land, so it doesn't matter. Otherwise the character is probably foreign.
 

TiC

Banned
Jul 12, 2019
609
In Japan they default every character to be Japanese, like draw a stick figure and it'd be Japanese.

The same happens in Western countries where the majority is one race, see the Simpsons, I don't think anyone in America has ever mistaken the Simpsons as non-white.

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And here, Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent could easily pass for Asian, but obviously they aren't because of the context.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
Yeah. I think this was the response for Shirogane in Kaguya: Love is War even though there's no reason for him to have blonde hair since he's not foreign & not someone who would dye it.

I mean Western media definitely influenced it, especially early on, but it's become its own thing where people aren't deliberately drawing characters that "look white" or whatever. If the character is Japanese and has weird hair it's usually just...."because it looks cool".
 
Jul 24, 2020
671
Well I don't know about Naruto and whatnot but blonde and brown hair are considered "normal" hair colours to have in Japan (from what I've noticed).

It's the same way an Italian woman with brown hair is more likely to die it Blonde than ... green or something.

And it's not like we ask White people why do they try to look more Nordic.