Why do games lack Non-Binary/Gender fluid options and characters?

[Gloomy]

With games with customization , none really allow for the use of other pronouns besides male or female and things like clothes options are restricted to one gender.

Is it really impossible to just label characters masculine and feminine then ask for desired pronouns and not lock anything?

Isn't the point of creating an avatar to put what you desire onto them , if that is so then why create such restrictions? Its like "if you want this hairstyle then play the male character" , "if you want this outfit then play the female character" , it gets repetitive to see with games.

It would be cool to see developers add like third character model , if some people really don't like options for their characters and allow them for those that want them all. I'd be interested in playing game like pokemon etc if they allowed more freedom with the characters. But unfortunately the games that I have interest in don't really allow that either.

Playing a fixed character with a name and outfit is better then creating a character with restrictions on what they can wear and how they can look. At least then they are representing themselves. It sucks having to spend time creating some restricted custom character.

It would be pretty cool to see main characters/side characters in big games with such identification but I dunno if that will happen any time soon.

What do you think about Non binary/Gender fluid identifies and their lack of presence in many games? What do you think can be done about it?

 

[Megatron]

We can barely get women and POC as protagonists, sadly.

 

[SalvaPot]

I like the Undertale approach to it, when you really can't tell and can easily project what you want in the character. Its also easier to develop this way.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Saints Row 4 had non binary choices for the protagonist.

Seriously saints row was ahead of it's time.

 

[Hackworth]

Don't some of the Saints Row games have gender sliders and/or allow players to use whatever clothes and hair they want? I think that's the best method, just unlock everything.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Because white males and straight males in general are still in charge. That's not a negative statement, that's just how it is. We're just now budging from the white male default and making headway into female protags and protags of other ethnicities, and the issue of gender fluidity is still one of those fringe things people don't know about or understand, even among those who're generally accepting.

Coupled with non-binary people being a minority within a minority, it's probably going to take a bit. I mean, shit, people have been hammering home on LGBT issues for it seems like eons now, and we're just barely betting past the B to tackle the T; these sorts of issues don't move fast.

Saints Row is probably the closest we're getting for awhile.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I can only hope. I was happy with Animal Crossing allowing more freedom in that respect, but it bums me out that Pokemon and Splatoon haven't done the same.

 

[Doukou]

Saints Row 4 had non binary choices for the protagonist.

Seriously saints row was ahead of it's time.

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South Park too.

 

[Garlic]

Saint's Row, the Sims, and Shovel Knight are about the only games handling this issue even decently, as far as I can tell. Hoping more developers start offering options in their games in the future

 

[Get_crazy]

I gotta admit, it's kind of silly to restrict such and such outfit and hair style. But when this happen, I can only imagine the """outrage""" from "gamers". With all the shitheads out there crying when the protag isn't a white male, I think developers and publishers are probably afraid to do such a thing. But we'll get there.

 

[ry-dog]

If Cyberpunk includes the option (which it absolutely should because its source material did), I think we might see more games following suit. But as it stands most games have two body types and usually ignore pronouns because it saves them needing to record extra lines. Bethesda games that already have a bunch of sliders should probably let you customise the body shape more. And I think every game should at least have unisex clothing and face options.

 

[Deleted member 721]

one interesting thing is final fantasy since the beginning is very androgynous

 

[Doukou]

one interesting thing is final fantasy since the beginning is very androgynous

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Huh?

 

[TheMadTitan]

I gotta admit, it's kind of silly to restrict such and such outfit and hair style. But when this happen, I can only imagine the """outrage""" from "gamers". With all the shitheads out there crying when the protag isn't a white male, I think developers and publishers are probably afraid to do such a thing. But we'll get there.

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I doubt it. In the games where people generally have the freedom to do whatever; the dev goes "look at the freedom of customization you have" while those people you're referring to just go "lol my guy is wearing a dress with a flaming red mohawk."

Then they'll go about their lives, using the customizations for parody and pastiche, while everyone else will leverage their blatant disregard for characters that look more like themselves.

 

[Cantaim]

Developers are unfortunately slow as hell to change. Which is a damn shame there is an untapped market here that needs to be serviced.

 

[GraveRobberX]

It takes time.

Societal changes take a long time to seep through the cracks to become the norm

Its only been what 25 years to go from, Gay being taboo to at least normal. Before coming out was considered a huge breakthrough, now it doesn't haven't all that baggage behind it

I mean for some people Gay, Trans, Autistic are things that came to be during these few generations

Asking them to go down this path will take time for it to become a standard.

 

[Nintendo]

The Sims 4 has all the possible options AFAIK.

 

[Rickenslacker]

That reminds me, Read Only Memories was good about this. At the start when Turing goes through initialization with you, you're given the option between a lot of pronoun choices and can straight up have custom ones.

The characters in the game are great in representation as well, with TOMCAT, one of the major supporting characters, being non-binary.

 

[enkaisu]

I wonder if budget is a part of it, like developers or publishers not wanting to shell out the additional money to account for all the new voiced lines of dialogue that would then need to use gender neutral pronouns.

 

[Tpallidum]

Flea counts right?

 

[Clov]

I really hope it becomes a more widespread option in the future! I always appreciate being able to play as a character that's more like me.

 

[Aurc]

Are you suggesting that the alternate pronoun be "they", and have them leave it at that, or should developers feature a myriad of different options? I don't entirely see how it would work if the game is fully voice acted, as that would entail recording lines for a great many different sorts of pronouns. This is typically why voiced characters don't use pronouns anyway, tiptoeing around them and addressing the player character by name instead. It enables the developer to use the same lines for both male and female protagonists.

 

[Deleted member 721]

Huh?

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i think it started due to amano art

 

[preta]

I doubt it. In the games where people generally have the freedom to do whatever; the dev goes "look at the freedom of customization you have" while those people you're referring to just go "lol my guy is wearing a dress with a flaming red mohawk."

Then they'll go about their lives, using the customizations for parody and pastiche, while everyone else will leverage their blatant disregard for characters that look more like themselves.

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When Battletech released and included an option for they/them pronouns, plenty of people threw a fit that the option was even in the game, even though they had no desire to use it anyway.

I think you give people too much credit.

 

[John Omaha]

Would Ash Crimson be considered genderfluid/non-binary?

 

[TheMadTitan]

When Battletech released and included an option for they/them pronouns, plenty of people threw a fit that the option was even in the game, even though they had no desire to use it anyway.

I think you give people too much credit.

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Fair point. My comment was more about the customization of the character itself outside of the gendered options, so yeah, clearly I missed an angle,

 

[TheMadTitan]

Would Ash Crimson be considered genderfluid/non-binary?

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Feminine or androgynous, maybe. Non-binary, nah. Ash is specifically referenced as male.

 

[Doukou]

i think it started due to amano art

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Hmm maybe. In the games(ff4) though he doesn't look any different than a standard prince.

 

[BigBluePig]

3 main factors:

1. Voice acting.

2. Games haven't caught up with the recent level of acceptance for non-binary folks. It takes several years to make a game.

3. The audience isn't big enough for it to be a huge priority atm

Give it time, I'm sure it'll start happening, at least in RPGs

 

[kittens]

I'm non-binary and lemme tell you: this would really be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 721]

Hmm maybe. In the games(ff4) though he doesn't look any different than a standard prince.

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yeah, because of sprite, but in dissidia and the cgs in final fantasy complete, he looks like that

i choosed him because its clear with cecil, but squall, zidane/kuja, cloud/sephiroth, ff1/ hero, tidus, vaan, firion, have some more and some less of an androgynous look

 

[Datajoy]

White cishet males dominate game development all of society.

 

[AztecComplex]

Feminine or androgynous, maybe. Non-binary, nah. Ash is specifically referenced as male.

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Honest question: does a character needs to be called "they" in order to be labeled non binary? That character is pretty androgynous looking but because the pronoun is "he" then that's out the window?

At the end of the day it's all labels, isn't it?

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Because games are escapism so they only have fantasy genders like Male and Female

 

[banter]

3 main factors:

1. Voice acting.

2. Games haven't caught up with the recent level of acceptance for non-binary folks. It takes several years to make a game.

3. The audience isn't big enough for it to be a huge priority atm

Give it time, I'm sure it'll start happening, at least in RPGs

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Not to mention they'd have to rework how dialogue works in the games because they're generally preset by which sex you choose in the beginning. So if you make gender a thing vice sex, you need multiple options, then that many more dialogue trees need to be written. It's a whole lot of work for a very small demographic. (I'm not saying it can't, won't or shouldn't be done or anything)

 

[Border]

Presumably because it is too much money, time and/or hassle to set the game up to accommodate such a small audience.

 

[big_z]

this thread reminds me of my second life abomination and gives me the itch to go back and see whats up. wish I could recreate that thing in other games....

 

[Deleted member 5148]

Dragons dogma is like 80% like this.
But its cool to see how outfits are retailored to fit female or male types.

I think all hair styles are up for grabs also.

I think is also nice to give you an incentive to replay the game as a different gender to obtain items or play stories that are gender exclusive.

For example, boy bandits hate girl bandits, girl bandits hate boy bandits, pick a side or find a way to work for both if you go out of your way in figuring it out how.

 

[KKRT]

3 main factors:

1. Voice acting.

2. Games haven't caught up with the recent level of acceptance for non-binary folks. It takes several years to make a game.

3. The audience isn't big enough for it to be a huge priority atm

Give it time, I'm sure it'll start happening, at least in RPGs

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4. Development time. You need to create assets that fits the model, so they would need to create at least two times more assets.

 

[Khanimus]

3 main factors:

1. Voice acting.

2. Games haven't caught up with the recent level of acceptance for non-binary folks. It takes several years to make a game.

3. The audience isn't big enough for it to be a huge priority atm

Give it time, I'm sure it'll start happening, at least in RPGs

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4. Development time. You need to create assets that fits the model, so they would need to create at least two times more assets.

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5. Lack of staff in high-level positions to not only coordinate how to implement this, but how even to appropriately tackle it.

 

[Dremorak]

I mean, if your issue is with the labelling they use, then theres nothing stopping them. If you want outfits and hairstyles interchangeable thats when the workload involved becomes an issue. If you're think of it the way I think you are, it doubles the workload for character artists, ui designers, etc etc. Not that thats a great reason not to, but its easily justified is my point

 

[Swiggins]

It's a bunch of things. The primary reason is that mainstream culture still doesn't really understand gender fluidity; it accepts it...kinda...but it doesn't really understand it. That understanding will come with time and when that happens you'll start seeing more non-binary and gender fluid characters.

The other facet is...well...business. Most people are binary...the vast majority actually. So game companies probably don't prioritize inclusion because the demand simply isn't great enough at the moment. This too will likely change as time goes on.

Progress moves at a glacial pace unfortunately.

 

[PinballRJ]

Sunset Overdrive does a pretty good job with this. You simply select one of 4 body types, they can be changed at any point during the game. And all clothes can be worn by any body type.

People saying it's too much work are overthinking things, for most games a simple change from gender (male/female) to just body type or no text at all would mean a lot to so many people

 

[Deleted member 26372]

Sea of thieves is good for this, women can sport beards and men can wear dresses.

 

[KRBM]

Presumably because it is too much money, time and/or hassle to set the game up to accommodate such a small audience.

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This. There's bigger audiences to accomodate - women, POC, LGB, handicapped, people with mental disorders, intersectionals, etc.

 

[CandySTX]

Remember the Steam forums when Battletech came out?
Whew.

Apparently not locking any of the character customisation options and including They/Them as a pronoun choice was a step too far.

It's undoubtedly a classic case of a casual observer not understanding how game development works, but surely it wouldn't be that hard to have a gender-neutral script? Most games with customisable characters have non specific scripts with the odd line here and there recorded to have "he/she" replaced.

 

[ParmeSean]

This. There's bigger audiences to accomodate - women, POC, LGB, handicapped, people with mental disorders, intersectionals, etc.

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You forgot the T

 

[KRBM]

You forgot the T

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I didn't, meant to refer to non-traditional gender attraction.

 

[Poised Turtoise]

it just seems like more effort to accommodate a very small percentage of the people that'll play it
as for side characters, it'd be neat. I guess they worry about getting it wrong or offending someone (the rumored reason for mother 3 never getting ported)

 

[Deleted member 3093]

Flea counts right?

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Why would Flea count, the character is neither