Why did Silent Hill fail when Resident Evil managed to take off?
- Thread starter Fiery Phoenix
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They may have been roughly in the same genre but SH was never as popular as RE.
From my understanding SH always had a hard time to sell more than 1 million and with the explosion of the budget required to release competitive products starting with with PS3/XB360 generation the series was headed for troubles regardless.
From my understanding SH always had a hard time to sell more than 1 million and with the explosion of the budget required to release competitive products starting with with PS3/XB360 generation the series was headed for troubles regardless.
Once team silent was no more, neither was SH. I find the first 4 silent hills to be far scarier than any resident evil. I do find RE games more "Fun" though. But SH 1-4 is horror perfection
Definitely Konami's fault.
Found this YouTube essay about all the shit Tom Hulett went through when most of the problems were with Konami's bizarre decision making.
Found this YouTube essay about all the shit Tom Hulett went through when most of the problems were with Konami's bizarre decision making.
I wasn't really talking about sales, more awareness and respect for the IP and its early defining games and their contributions to the genre. RE and SH together formed the popular image and immediate go-tos of "horror games" on PS1 and PS2.
It could've taken off if Konami didn't cancel a whole project that seemed very promising under the eye of Kojima.
Silent Hill super natural approach never been for mainstream audience ( at least to me ), the game has a very unique specific style that only certain group of audience will like. RE is always more mainstream from the beginning, zombie, police, scientist, all usual sci-fi stuff.
I mean at least in japan, both franchise start from the same level, but first RE managed to reach 1 million over there and become AAA straight away ( RE2 took it even higher ), while first SH sale was ok, and it didn't improved much with SH2.
And during western dev outsourcing fiasco, Capcom decide to keep their main series in house while Konami throw it out to some random studios. With different trial and errors. Eventually it comes back to the internal studio which created a huge hype after PT demo, only to get killed off quickly after ( thx Konami ).
I mean at least in japan, both franchise start from the same level, but first RE managed to reach 1 million over there and become AAA straight away ( RE2 took it even higher ), while first SH sale was ok, and it didn't improved much with SH2.
And during western dev outsourcing fiasco, Capcom decide to keep their main series in house while Konami throw it out to some random studios. With different trial and errors. Eventually it comes back to the internal studio which created a huge hype after PT demo, only to get killed off quickly after ( thx Konami ).
That's a bingo.
People would prefer to play as a cool special forces soldier or a rookie cop in Resident Evil, versus an ordinary civilian with some serious emotional baggage.
Zombies and monsters are an easier sell than... well, just monsters, but of a more visceral, fucked up variety, like door frame and mannequin based monsters.
The psychological horror and subject matter of Silent Hill is more generally disturbing and uncomfortable as well, which does more to divide people into love and hate camps.
Konami doesn't have anything to do with this. Silent Hill was never as popular as RE. Heck, no Survival Horror series was popular as RE.
Resident Evil is simply more marketable and approachable. Silent Hill is a psychological horror in which half of the stories don't make sense if you don't start to dig into the lore and piece things together. The gameplay is also more slow and focused on puzzles, as oppose to Resident Evil, which got more action which each entry.
Resident Evil is simply more marketable and approachable. Silent Hill is a psychological horror in which half of the stories don't make sense if you don't start to dig into the lore and piece things together. The gameplay is also more slow and focused on puzzles, as oppose to Resident Evil, which got more action which each entry.
It's not hard to imagine or understand why abstract psychological horror that was the opposite of a power fantasy trip sold less than saturday morning cartoon zombie fare.
Most people preferred RE at the time, and in much larger numbers. Silent Hill was and is unapologetically weird.
Most people preferred RE at the time, and in much larger numbers. Silent Hill was and is unapologetically weird.
Silent Hill never had the potential RE had, there weren't OTT characters, lots of guns and rather lighthearted storylines. SH was psychological horror, pretty deep stuff. The character was an average joe and fought as such.
But the series did well, was well known and used by Sony in ads for exclusive games. Then Konami handed it out to lower rated developers and the games became average. Ultimately Konami went down the road they are in now and SH is one of the many franchises they abandoned.
RE has been shit too, but Capcom had always made them in house. They tried a different approach which didn't work out well and now they're back to the roots.
But the series did well, was well known and used by Sony in ads for exclusive games. Then Konami handed it out to lower rated developers and the games became average. Ultimately Konami went down the road they are in now and SH is one of the many franchises they abandoned.
RE has been shit too, but Capcom had always made them in house. They tried a different approach which didn't work out well and now they're back to the roots.
SH always seemed more niche than RE. It didn't help that each consecutive game was worse than it's predecessor. To be fair i think RE would have fallen as well had the series not reinvested itself with RE4.
The cracks were already starting to show with Code Veronica and RE Zero.
The cracks were already starting to show with Code Veronica and RE Zero.
No it wasn't. SH1-3 stands toe to toe if not better than any RE game( depending on what you look for in a survival horror game) . They are some of the most influential horror games of all time.
No, they tried different approach and work out well to certain point that it didn't work anymore, then they decide to change the approach again, and that is what make RE always fresh. Even when they take the series back to its root, they modernise it so the new player can join without much problem. SH on the other hand, always come out as the same kind of game , despite changing through multiple hands.
That's what I like about Capcom. As soon as they see the crack, they are not hesitated to change approach straight away. All of their series always go through that phase, up until it's completely dead and nothing can save it.
Much of Silent Hill's identity is copied wholesale from Jacob's Ladder, an American film. This isn't a negative thing. Jacob's Ladder is very good. But the identity of Silent Hill is not particularly complicated, not particularly difficult to understand, and not particularly difficult to imitate if a designer wishes. You don't need Team Silent to make an exceptional Silent HIll game, just as you don't need Sonic Team to make an exceptional Sonic game.
More to the point, Silent Hill 2 clashes with the first game thematically and narratively, which is something that tends to happen when the original writer and designer leaves, and you hand writing duties to one of the AI programmers, and directorial duties to one of the background designers. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they did a bad job, but rather that some people think Silent Hill 1-3 had some grand vision behind it. Some unifying grand design that spanned the first three games. But that wasn't true. Games like Origins and Shattered Memories and perhaps Downpour cop flack for "misunderstanding" Silent Hill in their varied interpretations, but Silent Hill 2 was guilty of the same thing.
The only "American" Silent Hill games were Homecoming and Book of Memories. Origins and Shattered Memories were British. Downpour was Czech. I've always liked the idea of handing game series to various studios around the world so each studio brings a unique cultural flavour to the work.
I've always found it interesting how many people objected to Sam Barlow making Silent Hill games (he wrote and directed Origins and Shattered Memories), but Hideo Kojima making Silent Hill was seen as totally fine. Even more startling is how PT was basically NOTHING LIKE SILENT HILL, but fans ate it up because it was Kojima. The way people immediately embraced Kojima making Silent Hill, and the animosity toward any developer or director who coincidentally wasn't Japanese always had an unpleasant whiff of Japanese supremacism -- something sadly common in gaming. It's eyebrow raising how something similar arose with Shinji Mikami and John Johanas in The Evil Within series.
It helped RE that for as weird as it controlled, it controlled well. SH games always felt like navigating a tanker through a sea of mud
Resident Evil, early on, twice successfully pivoted in tone and focus. REmake took the series from a schlocky, campy, cheese-fest and was able to market it as something darker, grimmer and more prestigious, while 4 then flipped the script further and managed to cast the series as an impeccably designed, propulsive, dramatic and tense action game. Resident Evil played to its strengths of intelligent game and level design and high production values.
I love the first three Silent Hill games, but they were always incredible narratives wrapped in clunky mechanics and overall design. The biggest problem with 2 has always been that it's a deeply considered, thought-provoking story and character arc mired by atrocious voice acting, poor combat and weak encounter design. Personally, while I can always appreciate 2, there's a glass barrier between me and its emotional core.
The narrative that Silent Hill is somehow 'better' than Resident Evil is something of a nonsense argument, because both developers were making two entirely different games. Resident Evil was design focused, taut and excellent direction that created games about difficult decision making and absorbing tension. Team Silent made games that funnelled much of their energy into storytelling and cohesive theming built around that. Neither is better or worse than the other, the difference is that Resident Evil managed to revamp itself successfully frequently over the years, while after 3, Silent Hill was turned into the same game with less and less inspired results each time.
Regardless, the true shame is that Siren never got the props it deserved. Siren is amazing.
I love the first three Silent Hill games, but they were always incredible narratives wrapped in clunky mechanics and overall design. The biggest problem with 2 has always been that it's a deeply considered, thought-provoking story and character arc mired by atrocious voice acting, poor combat and weak encounter design. Personally, while I can always appreciate 2, there's a glass barrier between me and its emotional core.
The narrative that Silent Hill is somehow 'better' than Resident Evil is something of a nonsense argument, because both developers were making two entirely different games. Resident Evil was design focused, taut and excellent direction that created games about difficult decision making and absorbing tension. Team Silent made games that funnelled much of their energy into storytelling and cohesive theming built around that. Neither is better or worse than the other, the difference is that Resident Evil managed to revamp itself successfully frequently over the years, while after 3, Silent Hill was turned into the same game with less and less inspired results each time.
Regardless, the true shame is that Siren never got the props it deserved. Siren is amazing.
Silent Hill was always more niche than Resident Evil ever would be. During SH's heyday, guess which film came out in 2002? Resident Evil. There was a Silent Hill movie, two even but how many people are going to raise their hands if I ask if you've seen it? Not a ton.
Zombies are cool, old gods, monsters as manifestations of guilt aren't as accessible.
Still a shame that Silent Hill Downpour didn't pull in bigger numbers.
Zombies are cool, old gods, monsters as manifestations of guilt aren't as accessible.
Still a shame that Silent Hill Downpour didn't pull in bigger numbers.
If Konami weren't a bunch of dumb assholes, we'd be enjoying PT/Silent Hills right now and debating whether RE2 Remake is better.
I thought it was a common consensus that both Silent Hill films were better than the Resident Evil film franchise.
Like
The Silent Hill film actually did really, really great domestically.
Quality aside, which is subjective (I didn't care for either silent hill film), Resident Evil film series got the eyeballs and is closer to being a household name.
First silent hill grossed 97 mil, second 56 million, first three resident evil movies all grossed over 100 million.
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And yet not a single good or even middlingly decent Silent Hill game was produced after Team Silent disbanded? Themselves exhausted to the point of not enjoying or making The Room shine?
Nay, good sir or madam. That is a flawed as hell premise.
You can't discount culture from the game. SH games monster design had a lot of Japanese horror sensibilities. American horror has different sensibilities. Not saying one is better than the other but it's not surprising that people wanted Konami to bring dev back to Japan.
Also seeing a prominent Japanese dev ibKojima work with one of the best horror manga artists to presumably revive an IP down in the dumps with a big budget was super exciting.
Also you realize PT's gameplay loop was not representative of the actual game right? Did you even see the end of the teaser? Sam walks into a desolate town/ city. Nothing about it indicated that it won't have elements of traditional Silent Hill.
So I don't understand your " will someone please think of our influential western designers" tone in every Silent Hill or Japanese game thread.
Also seeing a prominent Japanese dev ibKojima work with one of the best horror manga artists to presumably revive an IP down in the dumps with a big budget was super exciting.
Also you realize PT's gameplay loop was not representative of the actual game right? Did you even see the end of the teaser? Sam walks into a desolate town/ city. Nothing about it indicated that it won't have elements of traditional Silent Hill.
So I don't understand your " will someone please think of our influential western designers" tone in every Silent Hill or Japanese game thread.
Survival horror genre was getting stagnant and Shinji Mikami saw the issue. They bailed out quickly and injected actions and casual fast paced gameplay into RE4. Those who were not RE fans were able to jump in the series, while Konami double down on the survival horror roadway to appease Silent Hill elitists who finds Resident Evil series dumb. (Thus creating the 2 groupd of RE fans)
RE4 made the series relevant again, while the survival horror genre continues to erode, thus ultimately Silent Hill (and the rest of the survival horror games to be fair, like Siren) went dead.
RE5 / RE6 copied RE4 formula, but we know what happened, and now they went back to survival horror game, considering the genre has already stayed dormant for a while.
RE4 made the series relevant again, while the survival horror genre continues to erode, thus ultimately Silent Hill (and the rest of the survival horror games to be fair, like Siren) went dead.
RE5 / RE6 copied RE4 formula, but we know what happened, and now they went back to survival horror game, considering the genre has already stayed dormant for a while.
Quality wise, everything on this planet is better than RE film ( personal opinion )
Sale wise 40-50 million for SH is not a great commercial success in movie world.
Not saying RE did much better but turns out it survive multiple releases and even have a re-imagine version in work. Thx to Mila Jovovich overlord ( I'm being sacarstic )
I like first SH movie, hate second one, and hate all RE movie.
Silent Hill is the result of a distinctly Japanese take on an American town and characters, and I'm very satisfied with that. Whereas Resident Evil is a more archetypal, tropey take on American horror (haunted mansions, zombie outbreaks, badass cops in the lead roles), Silent Hill dares to innovate, and be weird and off-kilter in all the right ways. If the identity of Silent Hill isn't particularly difficult to understand or emulate, as you suggest, then we'd have gotten more quality titles by now. Maybe the very problem is actually that the formula of SH2 is easy to ape, which resulted in more emotional baggage storylines, like Origins and the others. All of the original four innovated in the right ways, to where something like SH4 is seen as very divisive, but still has a dedicated cult following (myself included).
SH2 isn't seen as a misinterpretation of SH, the reason for that being it's a one-off, not some template to follow where the town is this staging ground for a gauntlet of the protagonist's inner turmoil come to life, like they kept pushing with Origins, Homecoming, or Shattered Memories (not too sure about SM, I'm mostly assuming there, since the game was too bad for me to finish). The misunderstanding I speak of is that all these other developers aim to follow a "template" too closely. There's no innovation.
The comment about Japanese supremacy is outright bizarre, in my eyes, since the reason my sentiment is so common is actually quite simple: the original four, far and away best Silent Hill games came from Japan, specifically the ragtag Team Silent (I'm aware that it wasn't a cohesive team for all entries, members came and went). It was the perfect storm of talent and a willingness to innovate. Unless we're given another equally compelling SH title from somewhere else in the world, I'll just trust Japan with it more. I don't mean to imply supremacy, and now that I think on it more, I agree with you that we shouldn't be so quick to say a foreign studio wouldn't do as good of a job (some of the best Metroid games are by Retro Studios, an American dev). I'm not even a big Metal Gear fan, but I know Kojima to be anything but conventional or predictable, and so that's another reason why I wanted to see his and Del Toro's take on things. Silent Hill isn't supposed to be formulaic or stale. A Kojima and Del Toro partnership is anything but. The evidence? Just take a gander at what we've seen of Death Stranding.
Oh, and fair play calling me out for generalizing, and getting the details wrong about the country of origin for Shattered Memories. That was my mistake.
Of course Komani fucked up but at the same time Capcom did an amazing job managing Resident Evil. If RE4 wasn't a major change to the series, it possibly would have suffered a similar fate. They were even smart enough to do it a second time with RE7. There's a parallel universe out there somewhere where Silent Hill is still a successful series. Believe me.
This is true, but it proves that the series peaked long ago. Silent Hill 3 was pretty great too. It was after 3 that things went downhill.
This really is the only reason.
Silent Hill 1 is an amazing film that perfectly captures the world of Silent Hill. In fact, it's only the last 5 minutes and the "exposition dump" that really kills the film.
Revelation 3D though? That was complete trash.
So the way I'd put it:
Silent Hill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Resident Evil films = Revelation
Resident Evil is probably a title better suited for mass appeal. It was also willing to more or less create a game with design contrary to its roots in order to better fit what people wanted to play in the mid 2000s, essentially abandoning horror for a time.
There may have been brand mismanagement with Silent Hill, but it was never the type of series built for the kind of success that Resident Evil would see. Any attempt to replicate it would probably result in something that fans still wouldn't be happy with.
There may have been brand mismanagement with Silent Hill, but it was never the type of series built for the kind of success that Resident Evil would see. Any attempt to replicate it would probably result in something that fans still wouldn't be happy with.
