Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
How did they botch software when they have not released any? LOL

My launch lineup is Game Pass. That is better than anything on any other platform.

They botched 'software for launch' because they don't have any. It's basically Gears Tactics... and that's about it.

It's a lesson learned about putting all your eggs in one basket in the case of Halo Infinite because when it fell through, so did the entire appeal of the exclusive launch line-up.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
That's a good point, but I would still say that those playing solely on a console have very different principles to PC folks + just think how few will actually buy the new 3070/3080 if they don't absolutely have to. Most PC players don't have the best parts, and play on their rigs as long as they can.
But that's a thing that Microsoft is actively changing right now. It's not exactly like on PC but they are getting closer and to me that's a good thing. I also don't see why it should be different, the games are coming anyway, they are just not there at launch.
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,936
But that's a thing that Microsoft is actively changing right now. It's not exactly like on PC but they are getting closer and to me that's a good thing. I also don't see why it should be different, the games are coming anyway, they are just not there at launch.
Yeah, it's not like I personally would have a problem with it. All I'm saying is that if we are solely talking about sales and adoption rates, new games are imo by far the most important factor. BCs importance, whether enhanced or not, is just way overestimated here and Game Pass is also available on current gen.
 

javiergame4

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
They will be fine. Hundreds of BC games to play. I have a huge backlog to get through anyways. Seeing FH4 upgraded for series x is worth it for me.
 
May 12, 2020
1,587
They will be fine. Hundreds of BC games to play. I have a huge backlog to get through anyways. Seeing FH4 upgraded for series x is worth it for me.

History has shown that the general public doesn't care about BC, it's nice to have but very under used. It not really a selling feature. New games that show off the console is the true selling feature.
 

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,132
The Xbox Series launch lineup really doesn't excite me. I considered cancelling my Series X preorder. In the end, I kept it because I can tide myself over with improved BC games until the next-gen titles arrive. Also, the XSX price isn't going to drop anytime soon, so I figured I'd jump in now in case supplies are constrained next year.
 

coughlanio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
London, UK
I think the software proposition for Xbox Series X/S is quite different to other consoles launches on the past. There's a wealth of content from all three previous Xbox generations available, with a fine roster of 200+ games available on Game Pass, and based on the recent BC benchmarks, a lot of it potentially worth revisiting. It's not like last generation where you only had 10-12 titles at your fingertips.
 

FRANKEINSTEIN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,228
AZ
The backwards compatibility and Gamepass is what sold me on getting Series X before PS5. I'm excited for Gears Tactics and Gears 5 getting an upgrade. But neither sold me on the console. Also, Miles Morales being on PS4 helped that decision too. That was the one game I was really excited for and I can still play it.
 

baconcow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,819
I won't say hardware is more important, because games do matter and likely more than hardware. I will buy the PS5 for the exclusives and XSX for its exclusives and everything else. But, if the XSX wasn't more powerful, I would probably wait to buy one when more games come out. In that sense, hardware does matter for me to purchase it now, but mainly because I still have a lot of Xbox One games to play that could use a frame rate boost over my X1X (e.g. Monster Hunter World, Borderlands Collection, Gears 4 performance mode, Rise of the Tomb Raider performance mode). Nintendo is another matter, and without comparison (imo).
 

thenexus6

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,428
UK
Strange thread, in my opinion PS5 has nothing interesting at launch.

At least Xbox has a massive back catalogue, game pass with EA and older Bethesda titles, and like PS5 the multi platform third party games. Xbox is in a super strong place right now.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,524
It is probably the weakest line up I've seen at launch. Really, the only game between the 2 that I must play is Demon's Souls. But honestly, I never just buy a console for the launch line up. I love the new console smell.
It is. However, I feel like priorities have changed. Gone are the days when you would need some hot launch title because you have a whole library of stunning looking games already really to play. On both the series x and ps5, I would love to play some older games with a frame rate and resolution boost.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,411
It is probably the weakest line up I've seen at launch. Really, the only game between the 2 that I must play is Demon's Souls. But honestly, I never just buy a console for the launch line up. I love the new console smell.

Weakest?

PS4 had a stronger launch lineup? Knack fan?

I think this is an excellent launch lineup, and an almost unbelievable first year for PS5. As for Xbox, yeah, not good in terms of exclusives but Game Pass and BC on new hardware are really great. I'd say there are a lot of nice reasons to get either console at launch.
 

Flagship

Member
Nov 6, 2017
536
I didn't forget it, it's just not important enough to mention. It's nice that it's there for people that want it, but as far as I'm concerned, it's all about new games. Old games, been there done that.

Out of interest: Do you have zero backlog and burn through stuff one after the other? Serious question.

A lot of people would love to revisit their favorites over the years. I think of this whole thing as a music/video player that cannot your favourite classic albums and being forced to listen to nothing but chart music. You can be excited for old and new (w/ new features and better performance etc. As you can see from the DF vid there's a strong appeal there from the day 1 enthusiast+gamepass subscribers)

But in some cases: it's useful esp. for base console owners because performance has been so rough for certain titles in the last two years: I held them off in anticipation of running them on better HW.

W/o having stuff like this: there's not much you can unconditionally do, play and enjoy on a console. You'd essentially be building up a library again as we were at the start of this gen.

PS5 is still (somewhat) in shape better than PS4/XB1 at launch in that regard but if 8th gen BC wasn't there: I can't imagine being restricted to paying £70 for each game a pop after buying a £450 console; let alone for a remake of a PS3 title. There's many other benefits associated w/ upgrading HW big and small.

You can cite Gamepass but lots of people have access to that on PC or XB1. You buy a $500 next gen console for next gen games, not stuff you can get elsewhere. And sure, normally we have to wait for these must have next gen games, but Demon's Souls and Miles Morales are there day 1 on PS5.

Miles releases on PS4 aswell.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
I understand why it's a split pool, and yes developers for a long time have had to deal with split memory before and have overcome worse scenarios (PS3 Cell), still it's not an optimal configuration based on what developers have requested from consoles.
I mean, it isn't that much more difficult to designate tasks to specific blocks. The intention is to save BOM while still providing incredibly fast GDDR6 for CPU crunching, a smart design consistent with the theses that Microsoft has with the Xbox Series. 338GB/s memory chunks is not a bad thing at a , and heck even 10GB at 560GB/s is nuts in comparison to XBX's 326GB/s memory. I trust the intentions behind Microsoft's specialist engineers in choosing the split memory modules.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,020
It's absolute madness that they did not have a new Killer Instinct game ready for launch. Not only would it have been a masterful graphical showcase, but it could have been Free 2 Start and people would have forgiven it being a bit light on content. The next Street Fighter is possibly years away, so they could have worked to solidify the Xbox as the premier console for fighting titles.

I can understand why titles like Halo and Hellblade may have slipped beyond the launch window, but MS has had Killer Instinct laying dormant for years now. They have a competent framework laid out, and could have easily started work on a next-gen version 18 months ago.
I couldn't agree more..it's a big missed opportunity, and I had convinced myself it was going to happen cause it just made too much sense. My guess is it came down to not having a developer..or maybe MS just doesn't give a shit about the franchise.

Keits from IG said they needed a break from fighting game development which is understandable considering they were still working on KI till September 2017. Double Helix is gone but the way MS is throwing around cash they could get them back from Amazon if they really wanted. My overly optimistic scenario is Iron Galaxy do come back with a renewed energy for KI and maybe MS can snatch some of the former DH guys from Amazon if they throw some money around to collab with IG..a new 'KI Team' or whatever. Have the game be a Fall 2022 release or something.

It's a shame cause the hype for the game would have been real, maybe as the one next gen only Series X launch game to fill that void. I do think KI4 will happen it may just be much later in the gen than it should have been. Who knows they might announce it next summer and shock me.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663

What? Yes...

Launch window will be as irrelevant as "PS4 has no gamz" come 2021 and 2022. MS has the hardware and services setup for the long haul. Game Pass and BC will easily carry them through any exclusive game deficit they will face this holiday.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,214
Strange thread, in my opinion PS5 has nothing interesting at launch.

At least Xbox has a massive back catalogue, game pass with EA and older Bethesda titles, and like PS5 the multi platform third party games. Xbox is in a super strong place right now.

Those are the reasons I'm sticking with my One X. Feels like they haven't even started to try to sell me a Series X yet
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
History has shown that the general public doesn't care about BC, it's nice to have but very under used. It not really a selling feature. New games that show off the console is the true selling feature.
While that's true, it's probably a little different with all of the crossgen gaas.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
They botched 'software for launch' because they don't have any. It's basically Gears Tactics... and that's about it.

It's a lesson learned about putting all your eggs in one basket in the case of Halo Infinite because when it fell through, so did the entire appeal of the exclusive launch line-up.
You could say that about the PS5 though with two of their bigger launch titles also coming to PS4. People shockingly buy consoles for all different reasons, "exclusives" is just one of them.
Those are the reasons I'm sticking with my One X. Feels like they haven't even started to try to sell me a Series X yet
The selling point is exactly that though: sell your One X and move to the Series X while continuing on from where you left off with all titles accessible including saves/BC. It is the smartphone approach, of buy new thing for faster performance while still holding on to the previous content you had. It is why Apple is able to sell a new iPhone every year, because it isn't to entirely kill off the previous phone but dangle a shiny new carrot in front of the consumer that is effortless to upgrade.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,411
Strange thread, in my opinion PS5 has nothing interesting at launch.

At least Xbox has a massive back catalogue, game pass with EA and older Bethesda titles, and like PS5 the multi platform third party games. Xbox is in a super strong place right now.

Sure, but you do understand that for people who have different tastes than you PS5 has an amazing lineup? You don't have to be interested in those games to realize how good the offer is for those that are. Xbox offers better value to you - that's great, go get that. For some people it's the other way around.

I'd say both consoles have great things to play at launch, and people can choose what they are more interested in. But a solid launch for both platforms.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,214
You could say that about the PS5 though with two of their bigger launch titles also coming to PS4. People shockingly buy consoles for all different reasons, "exclusives" is just one of them.

The selling point is exactly that though: sell your One X and move to the Series X while continuing on from where you left off with all titles accessible including saves/BC. It is the smartphone approach, of buy new thing for faster performance while still holding on to the previous content you had. It is why Apple is able to sell a new iPhone every year, because it isn't to entirely kill off the previous phone but dangle a shiny new carrot in front of the consumer that is effortless to upgrade.

I buy a new phone when my old ones busted or the new one does something I want.

I like my One X, happy to use if for another while. It could have gone the other way too I guess where I might have kept the Pro but Sony have a considerably better track record.
 

Deleted member 15311

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,088
History has shown that the general public doesn't care about BC, it's nice to have but very under used. It not really a selling feature. New games that show off the console is the true selling feature.
History also shows that if you have some 3rd party heavy hitters on the beggining of the generation, people won't notice the rest. Indies too.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Those are the reasons I'm sticking with my One X. Feels like they haven't even started to try to sell me a Series X yet

I don't think MS cares if you stick with One X, buy Series X or play their games on PC. They care if you stick with your Game Pass subscription.
 

Beef Supreme

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,077
Weakest?

PS4 had a stronger launch lineup? Knack fan?

I think this is an excellent launch lineup, and an almost unbelievable first year for PS5. As for Xbox, yeah, not good in terms of exclusives but Game Pass and BC on new hardware are really great. I'd say there are a lot of nice reasons to get either console at launch.

I was referring to the MS launch line up. And yes, Knack is better than having no first party games at all. I do agree that the PS5 is pretty strong.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
You could say that about the PS5 though with two of their bigger launch titles also coming to PS4. People shockingly buy consoles for all different reasons, "exclusives" is just one of them.

You really can't though because Demons Souls exists, because Miles will be superior on PS5, and because they have several other 1st party games that cross gen or not, are still there day 1.

Microsoft bungled the launch line-up, mostly due to Infinite screweing them over but it is without question the worst Xbox launch for exclusives in history.

This is not going to hurt them though, PS4 had so-so launch titles too and it did fine.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
I buy a new phone when my old ones busted or the new one does something I want.

I like my One X, happy to use if for another while. It could have gone the other way too I guess where I might have kept the Pro but Sony have a considerably better track record.
And that's perfectly fine. I personally stick to phones for as long as I can too, unless they break and its timed well within a new gen release. That was my point though, everyone has differing opinions on their needs for a console and its capabilities to consume content. Those assuming Microsoft has "lost" due to a lack of first-party, or those assuming they are perfectly fine due to titles still being available just not exclusive, are right because opinions are a wonderfully unique thought.
You really can't though because Demons Souls exists, because Miles will be superior on PS5, and because they have several other 1st party games that cross gen or not, are still there day 1.

Microsoft bungled the launch line-up, mostly due to Infinite screweing them over but it is without question the worst Xbox launch for exclusives in history.

This is not going to hurt them though, PS4 had so-so launch titles too and it did fine.
Exactly, it is simply up to the consumer as to what they feel is key to purchasing the product. If its first-party being prevalent then maybe they don't go Xbox, but they could also very much go for one and be just as happy.
 

KillaKap

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
753
doesnt seem like such a big deal to me personally. between 3rd parties and gamepass im straight. Not like they don't have 2021 and beyond games. This isn't last-gen xbox anymore. Seems like there's more concern from people who don't plan to play xbox than actual box gamers. Even if I wasn't getting ps5 and had xbox solo id still be straight
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,214
And that's perfectly fine. I personally stick to phones for as long as I can too, unless they break and its timed well within a new gen release. That was my point though, everyone has differing opinions on their needs for a console and its capabilities to consume content. Those assuming Microsoft has "lost" due to a lack of first-party, or those assuming they are perfectly fine due to titles still being available just not exclusive, are right because opinions are a wonderfully unique thought.

Exactly, it is simply up to the consumer as to what they feel is key to purchasing the product. If its first-party being prevalent then maybe they don't go Xbox, but they could also very much go for one and be just as happy.

Oh, yeah. I don't think they've lost at all. If anything they're in the best shape they've been in a decade.
 

bi0g3n3sis

Banned
Aug 10, 2020
211
It's a loooong way till 2022 and first signs of 1st party games on XSX. Till then, PS5 will have the lead for at least 10 mil. units ahead of XSX IMO. But honestly, relying on BC as some selling feature for new next-gen console isn't a good look. Nice feature, a bonus feature surely, but that's not the selling point. And it never was.
 

civet

Member
Jul 6, 2019
462
France
I find it to be a decent line up to be honest. It's mostly thanks to third party devs but it's okay. Most people will be busy playing 2k21 sports series and Cyberpunk 2077, Yakuza 7, Tetris Connect for a good while for example.

Plus, with the BC coming into play, a lot of people surely still have a lot to catch back from current gen.

Halo could have been out but people have declared it ugly so it's been postponed in order to be improved and people are still unhappy about that move, quite incredible.

Launch'll be a fine time in my opinion.
 

svnty6rs3

Member
May 13, 2020
628
I don't think they are - I think people are overestimating the importance of first party launch games. If you are generalising it to a 'strong strart', then who is to say the XSX won't have a strong start? Despite the absence of first party titles, there are still good games coming.

MS have 23 studios now (although I'll add some were very recently added to the fold who no doubt still have mutiplatform obligations) so to suggest at this early stage that MS will have nothing for 2021 except for Halo is absurd.
What games do they have coming in 2021? I believe Forza and Halo, right? The rest of their games were cg trailers if i'm not mistaken.
 
Oct 27, 2017
484
It is absolutely horrible. I play on both console's but there is simply no reason for me to get the series x at launch for me.
Well maybe for Horizon 4 at 60fps and faster loading but i find it hard to spend 500€ just for that
 

svnty6rs3

Member
May 13, 2020
628
Well there is no evidence they have nothing besides Halo until 2022, we won't know what their 2021 slate is until next year.

Also, your argument is assuming there will be a repeat of this gen, however they now have 23 internal studios (~30 teams and likely growing) MS don't need 3rd party exclusives to drive console sales, their first party will do that. Unless something like COD, GTA or FIFA/MADDEN went exclusive I don't see them being significantly hurt by some Sony 3rd party deals. It is actually quite surprising that this gen with neither 3rd party deals or a strong first party MS still sold 50+ million Xbox Ones.

The evidence is the fact that all the games they showed in their showcase were cg outside of Halo and Forza? If they had games ready to go in 2021, you would think they would have more to show from them. I might be missing something but their entire first year is very barren compared to the PS5 and that still matters when deciding which console to purchase at full price.
 

J 0 E

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,370
I expected Microsoft to be more prepared for the next generation after the lack of great exclusives for Xbox one but they surprised me with this anemic launch.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,576
The fact that Sony was able to release a bunch of exclusives on PS4 and still have a good launch lineup on PS5 in the same year really makes me question the mismanagement of Xbox Studios. The potential is there but I don't get it.
 

OtterX

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,795
So much downplaying of Xbox's lineup ITT...

Is everyone forgetting that MM is on PS4 as well? Why buy a new system to play it? Demons Souls is a 1:1 remake of an 11 year old niche game. Hardly special. Both easier to develop than Halo as neither have any multiplayer to speak of and are built upon existing games.

See, I can downplay games too!

Again, Xbox sold out of their preorder allotment in minutes, so the launch lineup doesn't seem to be affecting them so far.

The lack of a major, brand new first party release at launch is literally the only weakness of the Series X|S. I'm not surprised Era has chosen to make a concern thread about it to spread FUD.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
But that game isn't a new one. It was released an almost half a year ago.
Demon's Souls isn't new either. Neither is
I think that's a bit of a stretch. Entire new standalone project with a new main character, controls, moveset, story, gameplay, locations, enemies, bosses and all the rest, plus ~10 hours of gameplay, but I do agree it's not equivalent to a full fat sequel, sure.

On that point, I think Demon Souls is probably the title many enthusiasts are most interested in or hyped about for launch, and then there are other first party and third party exclusives too, the quality of which obviously remains to be seen.

But yea, both consoles are selling out at launch. As for the rest of the year following launch, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Miles Morales is DLC. Said it when it was announced against statements on how it was not possible on PS4. It is DLC being sold on disc. I have seen larger content being sold cheaper.

Demon's Souls just like any other remaster, or remake does nothing for me. There is nothing hype in my eyes when it comes to putting a new costume on an old game.
 

jorgejjvr

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
8,423
So much downplaying of Xbox's lineup ITT...

Is everyone forgetting that MM is on PS4 as well? Why buy a new system to play it? Demons Souls is a 1:1 remake of an 11 year old niche game. Hardly special. Both easier to develop than Halo as neither have any multiplayer to speak of and are built upon existing games.

See, I can downplay games too!

Again, Xbox sold out of their preorder allotment in minutes, so the launch lineup doesn't seem to be affecting them so far.

The lack of a major, brand new first party release at launch is literally the only weakness of the Series X|S. I'm not surprised Era has chosen to make a concern thread about it to spread FUD.
yep, everything compelling on PS5 is also coming to PS4, I would not be surprised if God of war 2 comes to PS4 as well

And demons souls looks pretty, but idk if im ready to spend $70 on it, def not a must have
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,261
This is why I'll wait to get one. I'm eager to get one for the BC but not at launch. I suspect a motivating factor for MS' studio purchases is the games those studios are already making, which we'll start to see in the next year or two.
 

Atilac

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
688
I suffered through the 360 launch, with my first title being perfect dark. I'll manage just fine with gamepass for tetris and gears tactics 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,982
other than obviously halo missing launch, i think its just the studios not being in a place to deliver at launch. MS didn't botch this - they are giving teams the time they need.

its definitely a lousy next-gen launch for gamers though, but at least we have gamepass, amazing BC, and automatic quality fo life improvements 🤷‍♂️
 

KillaKap

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
753
It's a loooong way till 2022 and first signs of 1st party games on XSX. Till then, PS5 will have the lead for at least 10 mil. units ahead of XSX IMO. But honestly, relying on BC as some selling feature for new next-gen console isn't a good look. Nice feature, a bonus feature surely, but that's not the selling point. And it never was.

bruh they have a 2021 coming that's powerful: starfield, halo, hellblade

I get it people have to paint a narrative for console wars...but its starting to come across desperate
 

komaruR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,099
http://www.twitch.tv/komarur
wasnt ps4 launch in similar position of not having much 1st party game at all?
infact ps3 was ending strong too

what was xbox one launch condition?
think they did get some good launch games. coz i rember buying xbox one for dr3 specificly. dont rember what other exclusive games.