Which US presidents do you rate as the best in history?

[PositivePolitique]

Every US president is going to have blood on their hands. This is not an excuse. It is just the way things are. So, I suppose there could be some measurement of least blood.

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Funny how this is accepted as okay for the leader of a country in 2020. It's just a given the US President is going to be involved in mass killing of other humans and children. I mean, maybe if Americans voted for a non-interventionalist president, just maybe, that mightn't be the case?

 

[jph139]

I agree most Presidents were complicit but I also think of the quote from Ilhan Omar when thinking whether Obama was complicit in some of the actions taken by his administration:

"His (Trump) policies are bad, but many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies. They just were more polished than he was....And that's not what we should be looking for anymore. We don't want anybody to get away with murder because they are polished. We want to recognize the actual policies that are behind the pretty face and the smile."

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Of course he was. Obama became the figurehead of the largest, most powerful military in human history. He came in with open eyes and knew that in order to become president and maintain that office, he would cosign and order the deaths of innocent people, and perpetuate the policies that put keep the blood flowing.

The United States is an imperialist country. It always has, and always will, put its own interests above any individual, outside of its borders or within it. If you're on the train, you have blood on your hands, whether you're the conductor or just along for the ride. Like, there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. It follows then that there's no such things as ethical citizenship in America - or any modern nation-state if we're being frank. It's just a matter of degrees, by country and by person.

 

[Lord Moriarty007]

Yeah, this is true. Even that wouldn't be an entirely fair metric though cuz Lincoln would have among the highest rates of American blood but it was pretty much entirely justified.

Yup, Japanese internment was truly horrific. He also turned away a ship full of Jewish refugees sending many to their death and I don't think he ever really opened America up to Jewish refugees, despite, yknow, the Holocaust

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All the Western allies fuck up with the Holocaust it was not only FDR.

 

[Deleted member 8752]

To me, Lincoln is the most accomplished president in US history.

 

[IMCaprica]

"Best" seems like the wrong term. Maybe "least bad"? Like domestically America wasn't as big of a shit show under Obama as it was under Bush or currently is under Trump. But the Obama administration also refused to take responsibility for whacking an American child with a drone strike in Yemen, and then took it a step further by blaming the kid's terrorist dad who was already confirmed dead before they killed the kid. And unfortunately killing that family's kids seems to be one of the few things Obama and Trump have in common, because Trump got his 8 year old sister killed in that botched raid a few years back.

 

[Deleted member 39374]

Eisenhower is pretty slept on. Didn't he massively expand public education and implement the freeway system?

 

[Nairume]

Eisenhower is pretty slept on. Didn't he massively expand public education and implement the freeway system?

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Sure, though the education stuff largely happened because things got bad enough for him to be forced to take action and the freeway system was a cold war reaction.

Mind, I'm not arguing that he's a bad president here. Just not a particularly notable one for similar reasons to Washington.

 

[Kill3r7]

1) Washington for relinquishing power after two terms when he could have stayed on until his death. Many people today view this as a formality but the US democracy could have failed if Washington held on to power.

2) Lincoln for having the fortitude to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to keep the union together and in turn ending slavery.

3) Teddy for breaking up monopolies and creating/preserving nature for future generations.

4) FDR for trying to create a union that served the people and not only the rich.

 

[OryxTheBakinKing]

Washington for relinquishing power after two terms when he could have stayed on until he died.

Lincoln for having the fortitude to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to keep the union together and in turn ending slavery.

Teddy for breaking up monopolies and creating/preserving nature for future generations.

FDR for trying to create a union that served the people and not only the rich.

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This is a fantastic list.

 

[thewienke]

Seems wild to harshly criticize Bush for Iraq but still consider LBJ as one of the best considering the massive death toll in Vietnam. The "Gulf of Tonkin" incident under LBJ was basically "WMDs in Iraq".

 

[NCR Ranger]

Lincoln. I don't know much about Washington beyond the myths, but the worse people say about Lincoln is he was a racist and/or soft on slavery in the beginning and that he overreached on some things during the war. For a US president that is almost sainthood.

 

[hsojlightfoot]

Obama because he fixed what the Bush shitshow broke. What is with Republicans breaking things and then Democrats fix it? I don't know much about older Presidents.

History class was a long time ago for me.

 

[Lord Hypnos]

FDR and Lincoln.

 

[Kill3r7]

Lincoln. I don't know much about Washington beyond the myths, but the worse people say about Lincoln is he was a racist and/or soft on slavery in the beginning and that he overreached on some things during the war. For a US president that is almost sainthood.

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Every POTUS that is in the conversation as being one of the greats has expanded executive power.

 

[Xion385]

Okay. I'm not a history buff, but why is FDR considered one of the greatest presidents?

 

[BossAttack]

FDR
Lincoln
LBJ
Obama
Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Jefferson
Madison

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Washington
Jefferson
Madison
Lincoln
Roosevelt
FDR
Eisenhower
LBJ

Shoutout to Carter for being an incredible human being and to Obama for his abilities as a leader

 

[Kay]

FDR and isn't even really close.

And I still don't necessarily think FDR was a 'good' guy

 

[coldcrush]

Lincoln and kennedy

 

[BossAttack]

Lincoln and kennedy

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Why Kennedy?

Okay. I'm not a history buff, but why is FDR considered one of the greatest presidents?

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Look up The New Deal for starters.

 

[HammerOfThor]

Washington, Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, FDR.

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Came here to say this verbatim.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

FDR

 

[Moppeh]

Basically all the presidents are bad one way or another.

Top five for me would be:

Lincoln
FDR
LBJ
Teddy
Grant

 

[FaceHugger]

Lincoln

FDR

LBJ

Clinton

One ended the ability for white folks to own others as chattel. One brought the country through a depression and horrifying war. One pushed through major social progress. And Clinton was just plainly a good president - reduced the debt, engaged in warfare only when it was to help innocents, his only scandal was basically having an affair. He was cool.

I'm hesitant to add Obama to the list because I don't think we yet know what the effects of his aggressive bombing and intelligence campaigns will have in the years to come. Other than those things I found him excellent.

 

[coldcrush]

Why Kennedy?



Look up The New Deal for starters.

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His work during the cold war probably stopped the America / Russia going into another world war (this time with lots of nukes) and helped negotiate the nuclear test ban treaty that also did alot to ease tensions.
He also said a big HELL NO to the plan for the CIA to carry out false flag attacks against American people in order to lure the USA into war with operation Northwoods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

He wasn't perfect but I believe he probably helped avert a full scale nuclear war. Its a controversial / debatable point but his aversion to doing what he was told probably cost him his life.

 

[KtotheRoc]

While he wasn't perfect, I think Truman is vastly underrated in this thread.

 

[Wubby]

Eisenhower is pretty slept on. Didn't he massively expand public education and implement the freeway system?

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So many cites were ruined by the highway act. Before this American cities were bustling and had some of the best public transportation in the world. So much beautiful architecture was torn down thanks to the highways. This brought a rise to the horrible cookie cutter suburbs, white flight, death of street cars and other public transportation systems. Always makes me sad to see pictures from the 20's and 30's how great the cities used to be then see recent pictures of the empty parking lots that replaced a lot of it.

 

[ChrisBliss117]

Eisenhower is pretty slept on. Didn't he massively expand public education and implement the freeway system?

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True. Eisenhower brought too much religion into the White House for my liking though.

 

[Mona]

hey its Franklin

 

[Imthefunmachine]

Teddy Roosevelt or Lincoln.
Underrated goes to Eisenhower, he truly did alot behind the scenes while everyone thought he was a do nothing golfer.

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Lots of people sleep on Eisenhower. He is in my Top 5.

 

[Josh5890]

In modern times I would say FDR, Eisenhower, and Johnson. Yes FDR oversaw the interment of Asian-Americans which will forever be a stain, but he did lead the coujntry out of the depression and through WW2.

Before that, probably Lincoln, Jefferson, and Teddy.

 

[jerf]

Abe
Teddy

 

[Luap]

It's hard not to choose Lincoln. He abolished slavery and he and his generals saved the Union by winning the War of Northern Aggression War of Southern Treason. He paid for this with his life. Nobody has ever had a more difficult presidency.

Teddy was a war hawk among other problematic things, but I will always admire him for his nature conservation efforts.

 

[SupremeWu]

C'mon, two pages and no Washington Song --

George Washington

www.youtube.com

 

[Deleted member 4346]

I need to see the definition of "terrible people." Do people forget the drone strikes Obama ordered that killed children?

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Even American children, like Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, born in Colorado:

Killing of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Terrible indeed.

 

[BringBackSonics]

As an Asian American, it's hard to reconcile the Japanese Internment camps. But as had been noted, It's pretty difficult to be a president without blood on your hands.

Maybe Clinton? We didn't have too many wars of aggression during his time.

 

[Deffers]

McKinley.

 

[peyrin]

which of these war criminals is your favorite?

now this is a worthy question to ask

 

[Kevers]

William Henry Harrison died before he could fuck anything up.

 

[SilentPanda]

I didn't say Obama wasn't shitty... I just said least shitty. His civilian death toll is still lower than most (if not all?) modern presidents except maybe Carter.

Like I said, I don't really think you can be an actually good person and be president. Or at least it hasn't happened yet (except Carter I suppose?)

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Until now it had been thought that President Obama was initially unaware of the civilian deaths.

On another notorious occasion, the article reveals that US officials were aware at the earliest stage that civilians – including 'dozens of women and children' – had died in Obama's first ordered strike in Yemen in December 2009. The Bureau recently named all 44 civilians killed in that attack by cruise missiles.

Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.

Analysis: Obama embraced redefinition of ‘civilian’ in drone wars

www.thebureauinvestigates.com

Changing the definition of combatant to all able bodied male is defintely a way to lower civilian death count.

 

[peyrin]

William Henry Harrison died before he could fuck anything up.

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I mean, he did massacre a bunch of native americans

Battle of Tippecanoe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Christian]

Ben Franklin.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Seems wild to harshly criticize Bush for Iraq but still consider LBJ as one of the best considering the massive death toll in Vietnam. The "Gulf of Tonkin" incident under LBJ was basically "WMDs in Iraq".

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LBJ is just so complicated. So much of his domestic policy is really amazing.

That said, I think I agree with you. I would urge folks to watch Ken Burn's Vietnam documentary series.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Lincoln

FDR

LBJ

Clinton

One ended the ability for white folks to own others as chattel. One brought the country through a depression and horrifying war. One pushed through major social progress. And Clinton was just plainly a good president - reduced the debt, engaged in warfare only when it was to help innocents, his only scandal was basically having an affair. He was cool.

I'm hesitant to add Obama to the list because I don't think we yet know what the effects of his aggressive bombing and intelligence campaigns will have in the years to come. Other than those things I found him excellent.

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Just not sure how one could hold Obama's hawkishness against him and yet comfortably give LBJ a pass for Vietnam.

 

[FaceHugger]

Just not sure how one could hold Obama's hawkishness against him and yet comfortably give LBJ a pass for Vietnam.

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He inherited that war and did what any other president would have done at the time, with the tech we had. Crude bombing. He didn't know the Vietnamese would just completely kick our ass's anyways. I also think he was being informed by people in his admin who were greatly downplaying the devastation it would level.

Obama on the other hand, he lived in today's information age. He knew what launching those drone strikes would do.

 

[BossAttack]

Seems wild to harshly criticize Bush for Iraq but still consider LBJ as one of the best considering the massive death toll in Vietnam. The "Gulf of Tonkin" incident under LBJ was basically "WMDs in Iraq".

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LBJ inherited the war, he didn't contrive of reasons to start one and tried everything to prevent it from escalating.

 

[The Albatross]

Lincoln far and away, the gap between 1 and 2 is wide for me.

FDR

Teddy Roosevelt though he's almost as interesting for his post presidency and unsuccessful run with the Progressive party as he was as president. I consider Teddy Roosevelts mistake to errantly say he would not seek a 2nd full term to be one of the most consequential single mistakes in American political history (like just a single gaffe, not a measure policy decision). It's one he regretted immediately, but because of his personality he had to stick with it. His unsuccessful run in 1912 as the candidate for his own Progressive Party had preceded his cousins liberal democratic run by 20 years and some of those policies would not see regular adoption until after WW2. Teddy was such a force of nature he could have willed them through. Though it's also arguable whether he would have taken them as willingly if he continued to run against party bosses in tbe republican party.

Washington because he basically wrote the rules of the presidency while being very careful that anything he did would become the rules of the presidency. There's also a lot of disappointment with Washington.

Lyndon Johnson domestically, though again a lot is tied into his career as a senator and his legacy with Vietnam will always stain his presidency, rightfully so.

Eisenhower is somewhere in a top 10. Though I don't know where.

 

[thermopyle]

Lincoln or FDR

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

LBJ inherited the war, he didn't contrive of reasons to start one and tried everything to prevent it from escalating.

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This is not accurate.

 

[The Albatross]

LBJ inherited the war, he didn't contrive of reasons to start one and tried everything to prevent it from escalating.

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Lyndon Johnson didn't inherit Vietnam from Kennedy. It was shared responsibility and Johnson turned it into full scale war. When Johnson became president there were some 16,000 American troops in Vietnam largely in support and coordination roles with the South Vietnamese. By 1967 there would be over 500,000 US troops in Vietnam. I don't know what the final count was by the time Johnson finished his first full term.

Kennedy put the first combat troops in Vietnam, but it became Johnson's war, and he knew it was a failure by 1967 but he was unable to draw down forces. Johnson's failure in Vietnam was the chief reason he would have been primaried or lost the 1968 election.