What are the most brutal gaps between save points/checkpoints in gaming?
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It's technically not "between saves" since the game is always autosaving, but I've been going through the endgame of Darkest Dungeon lately and it asks you to endure some loooong gauntlets of very tough enemies and bosses.
That "final dungeon" is actually more like two dungeons with a total of six bosses to deal with. All without saving. It's ridiculous. FFXIV split this single dungeon into two alliance raids and had enough bosses to not reuse or create any of them.
The 4 Arthrosaurus towards the end of Lost Odyssey that you have to find and beat (each one of them) before the timer ends as well. It was extremely hard and very long.
There's that one amazing bonfire run in The Ringed City of Dark Souls 3...and I mean that in all honesty. It's a brutal trip but it's probably one of the biggest non-boss triumphs the series has to offer. Every corner and every door feels like it's gotta be the bonfire, and it never is. But not only is it not the bonfire, it's yet another harrowing enemy encounter, over and over.
I'd generally give a shoutout to the PST Era SMT games (DDS 1 and 2, SMT: Nocturne) which had great, tense save-to-save journeys as a general rule. I love when a JRPG demands that I be both tactical in fights and strategic over a long haul, which sadly seems to be increasingly rare in the genre.
I'd generally give a shoutout to the PST Era SMT games (DDS 1 and 2, SMT: Nocturne) which had great, tense save-to-save journeys as a general rule. I love when a JRPG demands that I be both tactical in fights and strategic over a long haul, which sadly seems to be increasingly rare in the genre.
This was one of my most standout memories of the phenomenon as an adult. I got stuck in this self-defeating loop of losing to the flamelurker because I would play too cautiously, because I was afraid of making the trip back, and on respawn would play even more cautiously on the next encounter only to die again. My DGAF younger brother beat him on the second try or so. I would be like HOW and he would be like "I dunno he's not that hard, just run up to him and beat him up"...but I was afeared.
FFIII.
A huge dungeon with the Crystal Tower, ending with a boss.
Then ANOTHER dungeon, with 4 bosses, followed by the final boss.
And at any time you can get back attacked by a Xande Clone who will immediately cast meteor and wipe you, unless you're ridiculously over leveled.
If it weren't for Meteor, it wouldn't be so bad really.
A huge dungeon with the Crystal Tower, ending with a boss.
Then ANOTHER dungeon, with 4 bosses, followed by the final boss.
And at any time you can get back attacked by a Xande Clone who will immediately cast meteor and wipe you, unless you're ridiculously over leveled.
If it weren't for Meteor, it wouldn't be so bad really.
Most recently, the Phazon Mines in Metroid Prime. After that first save room it's a LONG time before the second, with a ton of difficult enemies along the way.
Also yeah, I have no idea how I had the patience to finish FF3 DS. That last dungeon is brutal.
Also yeah, I have no idea how I had the patience to finish FF3 DS. That last dungeon is brutal.
Mega Man II's final boss gauntlet is really annoying too.
You need Metal Blades to damage Wily, but your Weapon Energy doesn't refill upon reloading the checkpoint.
So you basically just get 1 attempt, and then have to force a game over, and refight all the bosses to try again with ammo.
You need Metal Blades to damage Wily, but your Weapon Energy doesn't refill upon reloading the checkpoint.
So you basically just get 1 attempt, and then have to force a game over, and refight all the bosses to try again with ammo.
Lmao, it's not even the worst one in Souls let alone videogames as a whole. You can easily run past literally everything with zero risk of danger or need for any juking skills whatsoever.
The final stage of Boletaria is far more painful for example, as well as the run to Dirty Colossus in Defilement. In fact there are at least a dozen runs to the boss that are far worse in Souls than BoC.
The final stage of Driver was the one for me. Fuck that shit, it's hard as hell, long, and you have to do the whole thing again if you fail, which is an inevitability. Medal of Honor Frontline was a bastard in general as due to zero checkpoints at all.
The Martyr Logarius boss run in in Bloodborne was godawful. Rather bafflingly it even included unavoidable fall damage.
Nioh 2 also had a bunch of tough ones. The first half of The High-Spirited Demon mission (the one where you fight Koroku and Daidara Bocchi) was tough as hell, forcing you to wade through a dark realm infested with yokai including a Karasu Tengu and a Magatsu Warrior (new, end-game yokai) defending a chokepoint and several other monsters patrolling the area, including several ones with projectiles. Make it past them and you have to deal with a Biwa Boku-boku, the instrument playing "monk" yokai that continuously summons more demons. And he's sitting next to a crystal that emits shockwaves that interrupt and knock you back. Meanwhile you're still in a dark realm, so your ki regeneration is fucked and enemy damage is increased. Dispose of them and you still have to fight another Magatsu Warrior before you've earned the privilege of reaching the second checkpoint. Fuuuun times.
Nioh 2 also had a bunch of tough ones. The first half of The High-Spirited Demon mission (the one where you fight Koroku and Daidara Bocchi) was tough as hell, forcing you to wade through a dark realm infested with yokai including a Karasu Tengu and a Magatsu Warrior (new, end-game yokai) defending a chokepoint and several other monsters patrolling the area, including several ones with projectiles. Make it past them and you have to deal with a Biwa Boku-boku, the instrument playing "monk" yokai that continuously summons more demons. And he's sitting next to a crystal that emits shockwaves that interrupt and knock you back. Meanwhile you're still in a dark realm, so your ki regeneration is fucked and enemy damage is increased. Dispose of them and you still have to fight another Magatsu Warrior before you've earned the privilege of reaching the second checkpoint. Fuuuun times.
I know exactly which boss you're talking about. It's the Spider Guardian AKA one of the worst bosses ever designed.
You have to do such an absurdly long boss run all to fight a boss that is just so terribly designed and incredibly frustrating.
That'd be it. I remember it taking me several months to actually beat this section because I'd get so fucking pissed off, I'd drop the game for a month at a time, try twice, drop it.
Yeah I finished it not too long ago and this is a good example. Man what were they thinking with this?
For these who don't know:
The dungeon has six floors full of enemies which takes ages.
Then you have to fight a boss which has so much health that even being overleveled it takes ages.
The best part? Halfway through he gets an attack that one-hit KOs anyone, no matter their health.
If the main character Ichiban gets KO'd, the fight ends and if you don't have enough money it's back to square one. He has a skill that allows him to survive such an attack but if you forget it or the boss does this attack twice in one round, good luck.
The final cutscenes, credits and stinger clock in at almost one whole hour so make sure your Steam Deck is plugged in.
And then you can save.
But that is the problem. You will run past everything and it still takes too long to get there.
Yeah, the problem isn't that it's difficult, it's that it's incredibly boring and tedious to have to do multiple times.
Demon's Souls 4-2 and the NieR: Automata opening chapter if you're unlucky enough to die during it.
Yes, the Megaman gauntlets from 1 and 2 were brutal to me.
Fuck the Yellow Devil.
For better or for worse, the N64 version of The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. In that version, true saving can only be done by resetting the game's three-day timeloop cycle. Temporary checkpoints can be made by using some owl statues here and there in the game world, but those checkpoint saves are deleted when you resume playing.
If you use the secret ocarina song to slow down the game's clock at the very start of a cycle, then you're potentially facing three hours until your next save point. Speaking from experience here... That can be pretty damned brutal. I suffered a game freeze right at the end of a cycle, literally as I was going to open my menu and equip the ocarina. It suuuuuucked.
If you use the secret ocarina song to slow down the game's clock at the very start of a cycle, then you're potentially facing three hours until your next save point. Speaking from experience here... That can be pretty damned brutal. I suffered a game freeze right at the end of a cycle, literally as I was going to open my menu and equip the ocarina. It suuuuuucked.
The Second Kalpa in SMT3 was horrible. I lost so much progress thanks to bs rng. From poison rooms to insta kills, and the cold sweat realization of having to hike all the way back to the start to save. I got killed on the way back and lost so much progress.
VII and 8 were even worse.
Being able to create a checkpoint before Wily is the only time I ever used the save feature in the collections. lol
This run/fight was one of the biggest hurdles in the game for me. But the reward makes everything else more manageable.
Most of the examples in here are like thirty seconds long or the best parts of their respective games lol.
The Mantis Betrayer runback was as long as it was because it was supposed to be an optional story boss you weren't likely to lose to. For some reason it got patched straight from one of the easiest to one of the hardest bosses in the game at some point. Not really sure why, it was fine as it originally was.
The Mantis Betrayer runback was as long as it was because it was supposed to be an optional story boss you weren't likely to lose to. For some reason it got patched straight from one of the easiest to one of the hardest bosses in the game at some point. Not really sure why, it was fine as it originally was.
For real, the run to Traitor Lord was painful. Although in the end it was worth it because it made me considerably better at platforming. Something that would be of great help later in the game..
I'd argue that the Soul Sanctum is worse though. It's way earlier in the game with early game equipment (you can actually get at least 2 nail upgrades before this but not everyone would know on their first playthrough, I sure as hell didn't) and the teleporting enemies were a nightmare lol
Dragon Quest 2 Cave to Rhone on NES. Whew baby I remember that being a challenge when I was younger.
I just use map/guide for the third level of the titular dungeon.
Ain't no way I'm going to do it manually with the whole teleporting shenanigan lol.
Ninja Gaiden (2004) that intro level was just brutal and the fact that you had to beat the first boss first was even more difficult. It was an accomplishment just to get to the checkpoint haha...
Someone please confirm whether I'm remembering this correctly because I feel like I may be remembering this wrong, but if I recall, Paper Mario: TTYD had you fight Bowser and Grodus before even getting to the final boss, without allowing a save in between any of them, and for that reason I ended up giving up as a kid when I couldn't beat the final boss
Edit:
Nevermind, I just watched a youtube video and I was wrong and there were save points in between, I just apparently sucked at fighting the final boss.
Edit:
Nevermind, I just watched a youtube video and I was wrong and there were save points in between, I just apparently sucked at fighting the final boss.
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Thought this was gonna be the first post. Never got past this part lol
in ffx dying to yunalesca isnt a long trip back
but you're hit with a 6 minutes unskippable cutscene ( feels longer than 6 mins tbh) and you have big odds on dying on ur first playthru to her because of her gimmick
and she snot a very easy boss so you die 2-3-4 times. everytime a 6 mins cutscene in your nuts
but you're hit with a 6 minutes unskippable cutscene ( feels longer than 6 mins tbh) and you have big odds on dying on ur first playthru to her because of her gimmick
and she snot a very easy boss so you die 2-3-4 times. everytime a 6 mins cutscene in your nuts
A classic example of something like this is Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link. When the player game overs they will lose all of their xp and always start back at the very beginning of the game in the castle. They'll keep their progress through the game but will otherwise need to backtrack through the highly lethal world map back to wherever they died. This also includes if you die in a dungeon, something that wasn't the case in Zelda 1.
Strangely enough, the final dungeon in the game doesn't have this issue. If you game over in the Great Palace, you respawn back at the beginning of the dungeon rather than at the beginning of the game.
Strangely enough, the final dungeon in the game doesn't have this issue. If you game over in the Great Palace, you respawn back at the beginning of the dungeon rather than at the beginning of the game.
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On the Japanese version of Valkyrie Profile you don't get to a ave point until after the (literally) 45 minute intro. You have a couple of small action sections during it, but no way to save until you're ready for the first actual dungeon. They actually added a save point to the US version about halfway through (along with some bug fixes and more QOL fixes like paging between menus with the shoulder buttons, which are gone from the PSP version).
Which is all based on the Dragon Quest save process (which is actually even more brutal).
If you don't drop your Save Crystal somewhere good in the Northern Cave in FFVII, dying to Jenova or Sephiroth can be quite brutal. I have to imagine that's why they let you turn off random encounters in VIII w/ Diablos's junction. I remember my first time through, I didn't realize that the item literally dropped a save point, so I used it right away LOL.
Smelter Demon runback in DS2 is just annoying, given how logic-defyingly fast the Alonne Knights can run at you, let alone the snipers. You also are still vulnerable while walking through fog doors in DS2, so even if you run past them all, the chances of getting through that door without getting hit aren't great. Blue Smelter Demon in the DLC is even worse, come to think of it.
People complain about Placidusax in Elden Ring, but his isn't bad at all, IMO.
Smelter Demon runback in DS2 is just annoying, given how logic-defyingly fast the Alonne Knights can run at you, let alone the snipers. You also are still vulnerable while walking through fog doors in DS2, so even if you run past them all, the chances of getting through that door without getting hit aren't great. Blue Smelter Demon in the DLC is even worse, come to think of it.
People complain about Placidusax in Elden Ring, but his isn't bad at all, IMO.
Holoholo Bird in Baten Kaitos Origins. Happens when you switch disks, and if you aren't leveled enough you are fucked.
