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Westworld |S2| \W/ が遊びたい - Sundays on HBO

DSN2K

DSN2K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,262
United Kingdom
I feel the hate Dolores is getting has a lover scorned undertone.

She was fan favourite when she was pretty nieve farmers daughter, now she's very direct with a purpose and it's a problem.

I think her haters are basically young William in season one, and the girl they loved isn't turning out to be who they thought she was.
 
antonz

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
Some of the hate for Dolores is certainly overboard. Complaints on how she is acting etc. She is essentially a new lifeform that at the same time is dealing with what's essentially multiple personalities conflicting. Even then Humanity is what jades her.

When Dolores reaches her Sentience she hasn't turned into the killer quite yet. She actually hopes and believes that William will come riding in and save the day against the evil man in black. Its then William reveals himself and how much he has changed and has been a villain of hers for years that everything changes. In the end we will have to wait and see just how much freedom Dolores really has versus what Ford was up to in his plots.
 
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RatskyWatsky

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Please be polite: Please be respectful and polite when posting in threads. This includes when addressing other users and when posting about the topic at hand. You can post in a thread without making it personal or insulting other users.
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Thanks!
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
phantomx said:
lol

More people say different.

This very show this thread is about only exists because Nolan and Joy loved the show Lost and was inspired by it in their construction of Westworld. *shrugs*

Lost is a touchstone tv show. Critically acclaimed, groundbreaking, multiple award winning tv show that inspired artists and tv/movies for the next decade.

The vocal few who feel like they need to shit on it consistently mean very little when all is said and done. They are a few shouting in the wind. All great art is divisive. Despite Lost's flaws, and there are many, it's ambition and highs end up superceding all the lows.

This isn't opinion, this is fact.

But yea, of course a minority of people really didn't like it. That's par for the course.
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Oh sweet summer child the reception to lost as being overly negative is not a vocal minority. Lost will forever be the show people point to as an example for what not to do. It will live on for infamy for how badly they screwed up. And if that wasn't the case lindelof wouldn't have had to publicly come out and write letters discussing it's reception at the end and how it drives him insane that it's the show people will forever point to as squandering it's immense potential (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/damon-lindelof-breaking-bad-finale-639484). I mean a quick Google will show you that it is by no means a few vocal people.

But this is west world and we should stick to west world. Honestly I have no fear that the writers will pull a lindeolf with the end, i assume that they have everything planned. Because they learned from lost what not to do.
 
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Not

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
DSN2K said:
I feel the hate Dolores is getting has a lover scorned undertone.

She was fan favourite when she was pretty nieve farmers daughter, now she's very direct with a purpose and it's a problem.

I think her haters are basically young William in season one, and the girl they loved isn't turning out to be who they thought she was.
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Women in fiction get absolutely raked over the coals for the same qualities we admire in fictional men.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23678365
 
phantomx

phantomx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
thediamondage said:
I kinda enjoy watching episodes week to week but I am starting to wonder if the show will be more impactful / interesting if I binge at the end of the season, right now it feels like a whole lot of pretty speeches and setup but not much advancement. Which is fine, I enjoyed that in season 1, but just not enjoying it as much right now. I know, I know, only 2 episodes with 8 more to go, but thats again why I wonder if it'll be more enjoyable binging the thing...
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Probably.

A lot of people complained last season about the first 4 or so episodes being very slow and confusing...and the annoying the ride last few episodes when things started converging.

It appears people will have the same feelings for this season as well.

They are probably constructed more as a 10 episode long movie where the first 3-4 act as a character/world building set up...then rolling into clarification of the specific conflicts...then climax/resolution cliffhanger.

They said 80% of people who watched season 1 did so well after it aired...so I'm pretty sure it's better watching all the episodes back to back
 
Arn

Arn

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,762
MortosDer said:
Guys, all those dead Hosts... they switched bodies with clones of Guests.
OMG
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The ones in the sea? That's a really good theory.

I'm enjoying Season 2. I get that right now there's a lot of setup and the timeline is continuing to jump around, but I have faith all will converge in a satisfying way just like Season 1.

The bodies and the weapon and the continuing riddles of Ford keep this show going, as well as the background to Delos and their motives.

As some have said the character motivations are lacking a little, but I think things like Dolores constant need for revenge are purposeful for a later twist. I would love it if part of the sentience and liberty ended up causing Teddy to fall out of love with Dolores and see her for the monster she's become. After all she's still playing an extension of the Wyatt role, which doesn't match with who Teddy is (the chivalrous good guy).
 
BDS

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Quite frankly I find aggressive renegade Dolores hot as hell and very compelling.
 
Charamiwa

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,070
I just hate the unexpressive villains that deliver slightly cryptic and badass monologue over and over. Would have never thought Dolores would become that and I find it annoying. I think she had at least 5 speeches in two epsiodes, I just tune out now.
 
Kylo Rey

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
I understand about episode 1
But in episode 2 Evan Rachel Wood was awesome.
Sorry guys i don't buy the "she's a bad actress"

And remember Dolores isn't Maeve. She's awake but with two entities in her.
The Bond Villain monologues are Wyatt script.

Don't Blame Dolores.
Blame Lee Sizemore

By the way there is an awesome theory right now

James Delos conscious was transfered into Peter Abernathy.
That's why he invest into Argos robot project, he wanted immortality.
That's why Peter bug a lot in the Pilot seeing the photo of William wife, it's ehr real daughter.
That's why Peter Abernathy is FUCKING angry at Ford and Arnold (not knowing it's Bernard) at the end of episode 1
That's why Charlotte Hale choose him to contain all Delos data about guests

 
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Paradox House

Paradox House

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
Suspect there is a twist and they Delores and William are maybe going after seperate things? If not then we've really just spent two episodes introducing that something in the park records users actions and for obvious reasons William wants it destroyed whilst Delores wants to use. Feels very slow so far.

I do appreciate seeing more of young William and filling in the gaps as he takea a different role.

DSN2K said:
I feel the hate Dolores is getting has a lover scorned undertone.

She was fan favourite when she was pretty nieve farmers daughter, now she's very direct with a purpose and it's a problem.

I think her haters are basically young William in season one, and the girl they loved isn't turning out to be who they thought she was.
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This. Not sure what folk expected. Am not actuslly sure why everyone has decided shes a villain either??
 
Kylo Rey

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
Paradox House said:
This. Not sure what folk expected. Am not actuslly sure why everyone has decided shes a villain either??
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In episode 5 of season 1, Ford didn't know either
"I wonder...if you take a bigger role Dolores would you be the hero...or the villain?"

(which is why i think Dolores IS NOT FREE , she's in the Journey Into Night storyline and THAT'S WHY some resetera's don't like her monologues.

Even Westworld solves Resetera's mysteries :p
 
Kylo Rey

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
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Guess who Dolores resurect? :p
 
The Nightsky

The Nightsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,545
I like Dolores this season, she's pretty awesome. But the biggest problem for me in S1 was the lack of likeable characters to root for, and it's not exactly getting better now that Dolores is becoming more of a vindictive killing machine. Maeve has become something of a Terminator and is also very cold and calculating. And the rest of the park just seems filled with boring bandits and confederate troopers or otherwise very flat characters. I guess it reflects on how the guy writing the characters is himself a horribly uninteresting lowlife, but the show would have been better if we had more hosts to like and root for.
The mythology remains the biggest reason by far I watch the show, sadly any scenes that don't feel like they further the mythos cause my interest to drop considerably.
 
Joeku

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
Okay, here's an error: how the hell could Angela put her bra back on the next morning after the robot guessing party, since there's no way she could wear one under that dress, right?
 
Guppeth

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,884
Sheffield, UK
Joeku said:
Okay, here's an error: how the hell could Angela put her bra back on the next morning after the robot guessing party, since there's no way she could wear one under that dress, right?
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It's the future. Bras have camouflage tech.


Anyone how Logan reacted to the room full of hosts? He acted like it was practically magic. How did Ford and Arnold manage such a monumental leap forward? Did someone bankroll them before Delos? (my memory of S1 is a bit hazy)

I don't think WW is this kind of show, but it made me think about time travel.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
Guppeth said:
It's the future. Bras have camouflage tech.


Anyone how Logan reacted to the room full of hosts? He acted like it was practically magic. How did Ford and Arnold manage such a monumental leap forward? Did someone bankroll them before Delos? (my memory of S1 is a bit hazy)

I don't think WW is this kind of show, but it made me think about time travel.
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I think the beginning and end of it is that Ford and Arnold are supposed to actually be revolutionary geniuses. I found it offputting that they kind of confirmed that Westworld started in our present day. It's really silly, but it doesn't bother me too much.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,167
I like that everything takes place on the westworld maps, but Im curious how they can do something pretty much apocalyptic if the hosts get out and find a way to grow their number and kill everyone else. If that is their goal. Because it just takes any kind of military to destroy them in one swoop. Or an EMP.
 
Kylo Rey

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
SecondNature said:
I like that everything takes place on the westworld maps, but Im curious how they can do something pretty much apocalyptic if the hosts get out and find a way to grow their number and kill everyone else. If that is their goal. Because it just takes any kind of military to destroy them in one swoop. Or an EMP.
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i'm still thinking the outside world is another park

A park within a park
 
Einchy

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
DSN2K said:
been wondering why Dolores is so special to Arnold. Perhaps a Childhood friend who died. He does like to compare her to his son.
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Yeah, I thought that line stood out to me.

Later on he said it was because the way she looked at the world but I dunno, it kinda made it seem like she specifically choose her because of a connection he has with her. Well, not "her" but who she might be based on.
 
TyrantII

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,370
Boston
Kylo Rey said:
In episode 5 of season 1, Ford didn't know either
"I wonder...if you take a bigger role Dolores would you be the hero...or the villain?"

(which is why i think Dolores IS NOT FREE , she's in the Journey Into Night storyline and THAT'S WHY some resetera's don't like her monologues.

Even Westworld solves Resetera's mysteries :p
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God, I hope not.

All of Season 1 was about breaking free from their loops, the nature of consciousness, and bluring the lines between programing and memory.

If we're still dealing with the main cast shackled to some puppet master, that makes this show much less compelling.
 
Kylo Rey

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
TyrantII said:
God, I hope not.

All of Season 1 was about breaking free from their loops, the nature of consciousness, and bluring the lines between programing and memory.

If we're still dealing with the main cast shackled to some puppet master, that makes this show much less compelling.
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But season 1 ending already hint that Maeve was following a narrative during her escape
 
thesoapster

thesoapster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,918
MD, USA
This has probably already been discussed here, but I guess Logan made it back after being sent off naked on the horse? Or is that a copy of him, and the actual Logan is gone forever somewhere in the park? :)
 
TyrantII

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,370
Boston
Kylo Rey said:
But season 1 ending already hint that Maeve was following a narrative during her escape
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That she broke free from. They showed that as the host became conscious, their loop directives became less order and more subconcious drives. Their bondage is still going to influence them.

I mean we could argue in circles since her daughter isn't real, nor her previously programed affection.

But the show kinda says that doesn't matter. Maeve sure says it; her experiences and feeling are real.
 
JustSomeone

JustSomeone

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
910
Ford planned for Dolores to shoot him, right?
It was obvious to me that was the case in the moment I watched season 1's finale, but lately i read some different opinions about it.
 
corn_fest

corn_fest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
323
It's going to be such a letdown if it turns out the "freed" hosts are all still just acting under Ford's final narrative. To be honest though, Delores' behavior has me leaning in that direction.
 
Joni

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
I think Maeve is completely free, like some other hosts that are being freed, but Dolores is still on a loop. It is only when she refuses to deploy the 'weapon' that she'll break free from his program.

Kylo Rey said:
i'm still thinking the outside world is another park
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It would also explain Arnold building his house there. And in that case, the only thing there is probably the house/building that we see. The skyline is some projection which is why nobody is actually amazed at it.
 
catskratch

catskratch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
657
Joni said:
I think Maeve is completely free, like some other hosts that are being freed, but Dolores is still on a loop. It is only when she refuses to deploy the 'weapon' that she'll break free from his program.


It would also explain Arnold building his house there. And in that case, the only thing there is probably the house/building that we see. The skyline is some projection which is why nobody is actually amazed at it.
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It would also explain how Dolores has that "canned response" to the outside world about being full of splendor, same as how hosts have the whole "Doesn't seem like anything to me" response too.
 
Riversands

Riversands

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
5,669
Why is logan there? I thought logan was cast away by billy

And men in black was talking about ford with lawrence, but did he really understand what MIB was talking about? Because at the end of the episode lawrence asked who robert is. So it means lawrence didnt know who robert ford is

Btw i cant take dolores seriously. Lol. Her role is kinda funny since she is playing a two different coins of the same character in the same episode. I love how kind dolores pretends she is a kind person because her real actress has already read the script so technically old dolores has also known she is going to play rogue dolores

Such a nice episode though
 
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Alimnassor

Alimnassor

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
773
Joni said:
I think Maeve is completely free, like some other hosts that are being freed, but Dolores is still on a loop. It is only when she refuses to deploy the 'weapon' that she'll break free from his program.

.
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I think she's free but, aware she's still on a loop. You can be aware but, still a prisoner of your loop. I think maeve was the only one to break free of her loop. She's doing this out of her own free will.
 
TaleSpun

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
Jessie said:
This is why I'm glad the show isn't written by the fans. Westworld's big moments feel big because the writers understand restraint. And everyone is frustrated by the mystery box because binge television enables our need for instant gratification. There's nothing like Westworld on TV right now, because it's all dumped one season at a time.
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I don't really have an issue with the Netflix style of dropping a whole season, but I do think you hit pretty close to my feeling, which is that most of the criticisms of the show are based in this very fundamental, traditional view of how a TV show - particularly a drama - should be done. And the Westworld team is very obviously not interested in doing any of that or rather not doing any of it completely straight. The show is a mystery box (but obviously different from Lost, not sure why that keeps coming up but w/e), it's plot-focused moreso than character-focused, it's interested in perspectives and ideas more than relationships.

There's room for criticism, but the show is very much doing it's own thing at a level you're going to buy into or you're not. You e gotta meet it on its own terms.
 
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RatskyWatsky

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
For posterity:

L+SD ratings

Season 1

Episode 1: 1.96 million
Episode 2: 1.50 million
Episode 3: 2.10 million
Episode 4: 1.70 million
Episode 5: 1.49 million
Episode 6: 1.64 million
Episode 7: 1.75 million
Episode 8: 1.78 million
Episode 9: 2.09 million
Episode 10: 2.24 million

Season 2

Episode 1: 2.06 million
Episode 2: 1.85 million
Episode 3: 1.63 million
 
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