How do we judge him when he had no power?
Plato and Aristotle were rich.
Even for post-childhood, living to 70 or 80 in ancient Greece and Rome was probably very uncommon. Perfect data doesn't really exist, but most estimates seem to indicate that the typical person was doing reasonably well if they made it past 50.Not to be pedantic but that is a common misconception, the average life span was low because it was the average. Most people didnt make it past childbirth which lowers the average dramatically, but those that did could have long lives. Not to 100 but easily 70 or 80.
But the same book says 'Thou shall not steal' and 'Thou shall not murder'. There was obviously an understanding of morality among the people.
There have to be some thinkers who were much more enlightened than what is stated in my OP. Maybe we just don't know about them?
To think that only 70 years ago nations tried to bomb each other into oblivion.
Plato and Aristotle were rich.
Even for post-childhood, living to 70 or 80 in ancient Greece and Rome was probably very uncommon. Perfect data doesn't really exist, but most estimates seem to indicate that the typical person was doing reasonably well if they made it past 50.
(Not that this has much to do with living long enough to develop morals.)
Yes. It seemed to be making a broad argument about a society at large, so I thought that countering it by pointing to people who were the exception rather than the norm was a weak stance to take, rather than going right after the false premise about lifespans and the ridiculous notion that morals are some kind of complicated intellectual pursuit that takes several decades to even begin to formulate.
Not according to Diogenes.
"He used to stroll about in full daylight with a lamp; when asked what he was doing, he would answer, "I am looking for a human."
Diogenes looked for a human being but reputedly found nothing but rascals and scoundrels."
EDIT:
"He criticized Plato, disputed his interpretation of Socrates, and sabotaged his lectures, sometimes distracting listeners by bringing food and eating during the discussions." what a prick, haha
These dudes
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Not according to Diogenes.
"He used to stroll about in full daylight with a lamp; when asked what he was doing, he would answer, "I am looking for a human."
Diogenes looked for a human being but reputedly found nothing but rascals and scoundrels."
EDIT:
"He criticized Plato, disputed his interpretation of Socrates, and sabotaged his lectures, sometimes distracting listeners by bringing food and eating during the discussions." what a prick, haha
this is a bit of a a misunderstanding. this trended down because child deaths were so high. if you survived to 10 or so you likely were gonna live till 50-60Yup average life expectancy being like 30 or 40 for men. Work as child laborer, marry young, make children, die of a stupid infection was the normal life of an average joe. Obviously if you were a merchant class or a higher up, you didnt have to face such harsh realities.
Even for post-childhood, living to 70 or 80 in ancient Greece and Rome was probably very uncommon. Perfect data doesn't really exist, but most estimates seem to indicate that the typical person was doing reasonably well if they made it past 50.
do u like dentures?
those people were looked up to even more
This would probably still happen now if it weren't for mutually assured destructionTo think that only 70 years ago nations tried to bomb each other into oblivion.
This.
Actually, we are trash people by many of our own current standards. And you have given a good example in slave labour. And that is my point. If today we can call our practices and conveniences trash, then perhaps there must have been thinkers in the past who thought similarly, but we never found out about them.
Historical Jesus was a very good man. Probably had some "cancel-worthy" opinions specially about barren women for some reason, but people killed him before he could become the milkshake duck.
I mean didn't he get canceled in a sense?Historical Jesus was a very good man. Probably had some "cancel-worthy" opinions specially about barren women for some reason, but people killed him before he could become the milkshake duck.
Hoo boy, where to start with Pythagoras, the sects, hiding away knowledge, and the thing with the beans!I like to think visionaries like Pythagoras were inspirational role models, but who knows.
Yes. It seemed to be making a broad argument about a society at large, so I thought that countering it by pointing to people who were the exception rather than the norm was a weak stance to take, rather than going right after the false premise about lifespans and the ridiculous notion that morals are some kind of complicated intellectual pursuit that takes several decades to even begin to formulate.
I don't know man, the way he wantonly destroyed the property of those law abiding merchants in front of the temple? That's not a good role model. Also, he never considered how turning water into wine might affect the economy, putting thousands of wine yards out of business. Sure, he had good intentions, but he lacks both respect and understanding of sound economic principles.
circa 500bc to 00 - your life expectancy was 30, if you were lucky.
People didn't live long enough to develop "morals".
That's a study of specific individuals whose lifespans are known to us, which means the data is biased extremely strongly toward the wealthy and powerful. The abstract thoroughly acknowledges this.And second, maybe it was you who countered with a false premise after all
The length of life and eugeria in classical Greece - PubMed
Contrary to the commonly held belief that in antiquity and as late as 1700 A.D. normal lifespan was about 35 years, there are indications that the ancient Greeks lived longer. In a study of all men of renown, living in the 5th and 4th century in Greece, we identified 83 whose date of birth and...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
this cohort cannot be considered as representative of the general population