Were all of the enemy models outsourced for Bravely Default II?

[ScOULaris]

I noticed this while playing the demo, and now that some video reviews are out I'm even more convinced that all of the enemy/boss models were outsourced to another studio for Bravely Default II. Many have been complaining about the human character models since the game was initially announced due to their off-putting dimensions and blank expressions, but their overall quality in terms of detail matches that of most other elements in the game. The overworld, towns, NPC's, etc. all have a somewhat "budget" look to them, even if the hand-drawn tilt-shift perspective look of towns in BD1 and now 2 have always had their charm. Animations across the board are relatively simple, the game has just mediocre image quality with aliasing ever-present, and the framerate dips from time to time as well.

Issues with the human characters extend beyond just art style, especially compared to the quality of enemy models.

But then you look at the enemies from both a design and modeling/animation perspective, and damn. They look great!




From my time with the demo I can say that virtually all of the enemy monster models feature this level of quality. They glisten with shadow-mapped detail as the light hits them, they have rich textures applied to their models, and they have pretty detailed and high-quality animations. It all looks like it came from a completely different studio from the rest of the game's art assets. Anyone else think that this is the case?

 

[DNAbro]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Looks more like a matter of inconsitent artstyle. Could even be an homage to old Final Fantasy games where the sprites of the enemies never matched the ones of the party members. Octopath Traveler did the same thing.

 

[Weebos]

Watch the human models be part of whatever meta twist this one has.

 

[Yuntu]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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It is.

 

[Nevermeltice]

I honestly don't get why people are this hung up on the character models. But yeah, this is kind of insulting.

 

[CloseTalker]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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YUP

 

[ScOULaris]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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That wasn't my intention. But the enemy models have such a different look to them that they appear to have been done by a different team from the rest of the game. I'm not sure how else I can intimate that without unintentionally criticizing the devs.

 

[trashbandit]

It almost seems like the material of that monster's texture is way more detailed than everything else in the game.

 

[60fps]

Based on the demo I was also wondering why enemies look rather good, compared to these horrible dead-eyed main characters.

Maybe because they're monsters instead of humans?

Looks more like a matter of inconsitent artstyle. Could even be an homage to old Final Fantasy games where the sprites of the enemies never matched the ones of the party members. Octopath Traveler did the same thing.

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This could definitely be the intention as all old school RPGs put more detail into enemy sprites.

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Now I'm wondering if the inconsistent framerate is an homage to old NES games.

No it's just the OP saying they find the character models lacking in comparison to enemy models so they're wondering if it's outsourced. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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My thoughts exactly.

 

[Pancracio17]

Looks more like a matter of inconsitent artstyle. Could even be an homage to old Final Fantasy games where the sprites of the enemies never matched the ones of the party members. Octopath Traveler did the same thing.

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Its probably this.

 

[ManNR]

Looks more like a matter of inconsitent artstyle. Could even be an homage to old Final Fantasy games where the sprites of the enemies never matched the ones of the party members. Octopath Traveler did the same thing.

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This could definitely be the intention as all old school RPGs put more detail into enemy sprites.

 

[Runner]

it is a classic final fantasy staple to have super detailed enemies and less detailed main characters, and Bravely Default is kind of a spirtual successor to classic FF by way of four warriors of light

 

[Neutra]

if that were true they'd still be art-directed and approved by the main team.

 

[NotLiquid]

Considering Octopath drew a pretty big line between playable characters having simplistic deformed sprites while enemies/boss monsters were detailed monstrosities, I don't think outsourcing has anything to do with the different look. I'm pretty sure it was a deliberate dichotomy.

 

[Raspyberry]

Looks more like a matter of inconsitent artstyle. Could even be an homage to old Final Fantasy games where the sprites of the enemies never matched the ones of the party members. Octopath Traveler did the same thing.

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This is what I thought it was

 

[Brazil]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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It's entirely insulting, not just kind of.

Human models look great as well, especially when they start getting jobs with more complex clothing.

 

[Disclaimer]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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Yeah... smh.

Just because you aren't a fan of the character models' styling doesn't mean the artists behind them aren't talented. Let your appreciation of the monsters' models be evidence of that.

 

[Fire Bocchi]

or that this was intentional as a homage to how enemies in older jrpgs on snes and nes were higher quality images compared to the 2d sprites of the playable characters

 

[mael]

Seems inline with previous Bravely games.
Like considering the realities of game development, a fair bit of outsourcing may have been done but I think it has more to do with what the art directors wanted for characters, enemies and environments.
At the end of the day, the people doing enemy designs aren't making models in a vaccum without any approval.
If the art directors found the models to be inconsistent with the look they wanted, they wouldn't have approved the models at all.
And then there's animations and a lot of shit to go with it.
OP I think you're misguided at best.

 

[ScOULaris]

it is a classic final fantasy staple to have super detailed enemies and less detailed main characters, and Bravely Default is kind of a spirtual successor to classic FF by way of four warriors of light

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Yeah, I could see that being the case. I guess it comes across as a little less cohesive when it's done in full 3D than with 2D sprites, however. At least to me.

 

[dunkzilla]

I can't believe people are saying this question is "insulting". That's on you not understanding OP's question.

 

[ILikeFeet]

to blame this on outsourcing is incorrect. there's just a lack of consistent direction

 

[Faiyaz]

I can't believe people are saying this question is "insulting". That's on you not understanding OP's question.

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It definitely is insulting, and undermines the good aspects about the visuals of this game.

 

[ScOULaris]

to blame this on outsourcing is incorrect. there's just a lack of consistent direction

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Well, I wasn't intending to "blame" anything on anyone. Outsourcing is just a normal part of modern game development, so I wasn't trying to accuse the devs of foul play or anything. I was just wondering if maybe a different team of modelers/animators were in charge of the enemies, whether that be within Square-Enix or from some external studio.

Outsourcing chunks of a game's assets to an outside group happens all the time. It's just that you can't usually tell when that was the case, but I thought maybe the contrast was glaring enough here that it might have become apparent.

I fully recognize the validity of the notion of it being an intentional homage to the more detailed enemy sprites of classic FF games, however. I hadn't thought about that until several people expressed it in this thread.

 

[the magical kitsune]

It must blow this forum's mind to think that enemy and character models are a deliberate artistic choice by the developers and not some kind of budget or asset distribution issue.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Isn't it kind of insulting to insinuate that because the quality is good that the dev team had to outsource it?

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No it's just the OP saying they find the character models lacking in comparison to enemy models so they're wondering if it's outsourced. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[mael]

It's literally a staple of old JRPGs,
contrast and compare :
FFVI

Romancing SaGa 3

Now from the same Squaresoft but with more consistent style for enemies and party members:
Bahamut Lagoon

 

[Vault]

when every character has to have 20 different outfits for jobs its probably smarter to keep the characters simple

 

[Disclaimer]

I can't believe people are saying this question is "insulting". That's on you not understanding OP's question.

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The OP, intentionally or not, is literally extrapolating that the monster models were outsourced because they're good, whereas they think the character models are bad.

How is that not an implication that the artists behind the "bad" character models aren't capable of the talent seen in the "good" monster models? i.e., insulting.

The costumes on the character models are as richly detailed as the monster models. The only difference is the stylization of the characters themselves, which is a deliberate choice, like it or not.

 

[Neutra]

No it's just the OP saying they find the character models lacking in comparison to enemy models so they're wondering if it's outsourced. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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i don't want to gang up on the OP, but honestly the tone is more like "so we all know that the characters, towns and animations in this game SUCK, why are the enemies the only good thing in the game? maybe a competent vendor made them??"

 

[mieumieu]

That's not how outsourcing works.

 

[super moustique]

It's entirely insulting, not just kind of.

Human models look great as well, especially when they start getting jobs with more complex clothing.

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Indeed.

 

[Anumariku]

No it's just the OP saying they find the character models lacking in comparison to enemy models so they're wondering if it's outsourced. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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That's Era's MO though.

 

[mael]

i don't want to gang up on the OP, but honestly the tone is more like "so we all know that the characters, towns and animations in this game SUCK, why are the enemies the only good thing in the game? maybe a competent vendor made them??"

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We're one comment away from "lazy devs" really.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

The OP, intentionally or not, is literally extrapolating that the monster models were outsourced because they're good, whereas they think the character models are bad.

How is that not an implication that the artists behind the "bad" character models aren't capable of the talent seen in the "good" monster models? i.e., insulting.

The costumes on the character models are as richly detailed as the monster models. The only difference is the stylization of the characters themselves, which is a deliberate choice, like it or not.

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He is not saying that the artists aren't capable.

He is saying that the character models are bad. That's it. There are many reasons as to why a character model turns out to be bad and even contemplating outsourcing for the game's better models doesn't insinuate that the OP thinks the artists are incapable or lacking talent. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

If this game was intentionally trying to be like the SNES FF's the human bosses would become gigantic versions of themselves during boss fights

People will do anything to pretend that this game doesn't have a bit of a low budget. And before you say "it's an artistic decision for the models to be that way," it's still out of a lack of having a big budget

PS: that doesn't mean I'm not excited for the game

 

[Calabi]

They do kind of look if they are from different games. I don't know if it means they were outsourced or not but it is interesting.

 

[mael]

Again for the people in the back.

This is 4 Warriors of Light on DS

This is how Bravely Default is supposed to look on 3DS.

And this is Bravely Second

Believe it or not there is such a thing as artistic direction that may direct designs more than budget.

 

[Flame Lord]

I call bullshit on the whole "artistic direction" line, and even if that is the case, it can simply be bad artistic direction.

 

[mael]

I call bullshit on the whole "artistic direction" line, and even if that is the case, it can simply be bad artistic direction.

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You can dislike the choices made but that doesn't mean it isn't a choice they made.
It doesn't work for you but that doesn't mean it's bad or a result of lack of talent or something.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

Bravely Default and Bravely Second had similar character models, but they weren't as shiny as these new ones, and its off putting. I like the dulled look of the characters skin.

That said, I think it still looks great for a handheld game, which its clearly supposed to be.

 

[texhnolyze]

You're conflicting character models with face models. The problem lies in their face, not the whole body.

Character models look great to me. I also have much less issue with the faces unlike some people made it out to be. At least they have brows and mouths to make facial expressions.

 

[SnazzyNaz]

Unrelated but the per-object motion blur in that video looks amazing.

 

[Aniki]

I like the human models. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Good4Squat]

It is definitely a deliberate artistic choice, and one that may be off putting to some people, but insinuating that it is objectively bad is just nonsensical.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Outsourced models or not (this is fairly common I think?), I doubt the design would have been.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

If this game was intentionally trying to be like the SNES FF's the human bosses would become gigantic versions of themselves during boss fights

People will do anything to pretend that this game doesn't have a bit of a low budget. And before you say "it's an artistic decision for the models to be that way," it's still out of a lack of having a big budget

PS: that doesn't mean I'm not excited for the game

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You can keep banging on this "it must be low budget!" Drum for as long as you like, you won't stop being obviously wrong no matter how long you do it. Like, no shit it doesn't have the budget of a full fledged kingdom hearts or something, but you already also know that because elsewhere you've also said "it doesn't have to be triple A".

 

[Yuntu]

If this game was intentionally trying to be like the SNES FF's the human bosses would become gigantic versions of themselves during boss fights

People will do anything to pretend that this game doesn't have a bit of a low budget. And before you say "it's an artistic decision for the models to be that way," it's still out of a lack of having a big budget

PS: that doesn't mean I'm not excited for the game

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It really doesn't seem low budget for me. I don't know how you even qualify that tbh. It seems it has exactly the kind of budget a game in the franchise would have, clearly an increase over 1 and Second.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

You can keep banging on this "it must be low budget!" Drum for as long as you like, you won't stop being obviously wrong no matter how long you do it. Like, no shit it doesn't have the budget of a full fledged kingdom hearts or something, but you already also know that because elsewhere you've also said "it doesn't have to be triple A".

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Ok I will. The game is low budget.