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We should give people like Milo a platform, Says Jaffe; not doing so is ruining the country. Defends himself with NPC memes.
- Thread starter Deleted member 249
- Start date
I think we have heard Milo enough to be considered one fo the kings of bad takes. No need to hear him anymore. And I do believe our society has been strong enough already to let him even spoute some of the bullshit he has and we have allowed.
Also, please, it has been stated multiple times on this thread, no one is banning Milo's free speech, that is still protected by his government, but that doesn't reach the specifics of private owned social media.
People seem to misunderstand. Milo didn't disappear because of being deplatformed. If anything that empowered him. He disappeared because he said one too many idiotic things and people began to see behind his character and image. Free speech is important because you need to trust that in the battle of ideas good will win against evil and intelligence against stupidity and ignorance. Before we started censoring people white supremacists and all manner of horrible people with horrible opinions were dying out. But now they are on the rise again because people think they have something important to say because they are being shut down. They don't and never did. Before they were silenced by thoughtful and intelligent arguments and they were free to speak and expose their own disgusting and unintelligent views. Milo isn't alt-right (even though he ignorantly called himself that) or a nazi, but he is a stupid drama queen, troll and divider. Don't trust him, but also recognise that just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them a nazi or alt-right. If we allow these horrible people to speak freely, then they will most certainly die out faster.
2 posts in 5 months. Well at least Jaffe is helping to shine a light on all the throwaway accounts hidden here.
Even if you were some sort of free-speech absolutist, how could you look at all that's going on and conclude that this is what's ruining the country? "Yep, once we give those nazi-pedos their bullhorn everything will be back on track!"
You should, though. What is it with people engaging in healthy respectful conversation nowadays? Yeah, you're free to dismiss my viewpoints with no discernible explanations, but i personally would like one. It's the only way to make people agree with each other, not by using power to silence or ban those with who you disagree with.
It's an interesting topic, and one where the left disagrees with its own pretty often. Vox did an "Explained" video about Political Correctness, and even they argued that we should allow people with loathesome ideas to speak at campuses, in order to better understand and break down their bullshit, and also because if you take away their controversial claims of "censorship" a lot of the anti-PC crusaders lose their source of income. Milo and his ilk have made a career out of being so reprehensible that they stay in the headlines. He might die out if his talks were just an empty ass room with a few deplorables and a few people taking him to task for his -isms.
One thing I really appreciate about Contrapoints is how she deeply engages with the arguments made by people like Milo, Jordan Peterson, or other white supremacists, alt righters, or transphobes. She takes the time to really appreciate their arguments in order to destroy them logically beat by beat. Dismissing speech based off of an emotional response is certainly understandable, but I think, on campuses in particular, it might not be the right move. Protesting and antagonizing Milo just gives him more ammo for his next shitty book tour or whatever.
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No, see, free speech means I don't have to engage "respectfully" with any opinion I don't agree with. I am exercising my right to free speech.
*eye roll*
So what sort of behaviors do you think should constitute a ban on Twitter?
Remember, you're running a business. You have a board of directors with shareholders. Your primary mission is to make money for your shareholders. Not to make a platform that allows anything and everything.
Should Twitter let ISIS run pages recruiting new members posting propaganda?
Should Twitter let people organize large scale illegal drug sales?
Should Twitter openly allow for the posting of extreme gore and violence?
There are limits to everything. Even to actual speech not on a media platform.
Well, you made me laugh here. Actually what made me want to start posting was the new redesign. I don't usually come here but am getting into it a lot now. Sorry if you deem an opinion worthy or not based on how much you interacted on this website before.
If the literal premise of an argument is wrong then a debate shouldn't be needed to further confirm "oh this is wrong." It's called using your critical thinking skills.
what a stupid point. i was probably in college when the whole "sjws are ruining college by not allowing opinions they don't like" peaked and guess what that shit never actually happened when i was there. if dissenting opinions weren't given it was probably because no one gives a shit in classes rather than any active form of repression going on. can't believe we're still at the stage of whinging about that shit.
Bigots, racists, and fascists are really good at manipulating naive people into giving them a free platform.
People fail to understand, when referencing the "marketplace of ideas", that the bad actor doesn't want to defeat -you- in some intellectually abstract battle of wits on the stage. They don't give a shit about "winning". They care about free advertising and the appearance of legitimacy in order to spread their ideas to the audience. The countless people watching.
Those people then think "this guy must be a big deal! He's on the national stage and people are runnin' scared from his TRUTH BOMBS! I'm gonna go with that guy!"
People fail to understand, when referencing the "marketplace of ideas", that the bad actor doesn't want to defeat -you- in some intellectually abstract battle of wits on the stage. They don't give a shit about "winning". They care about free advertising and the appearance of legitimacy in order to spread their ideas to the audience. The countless people watching.
Those people then think "this guy must be a big deal! He's on the national stage and people are runnin' scared from his TRUTH BOMBS! I'm gonna go with that guy!"
If you want to engage in a healthy and respectful conversation, use your real account instead of hiding behind an alt. There is no point in a conversation with someone not arguing in good faith.
Why would people be advocating for the government to shut Milo up? Milo's deplatforming is a great example of how you don't need the government to shut people up. Twitter is like a shopping mall; it is a privately owned place where people gather. A shopping mall is not forced to allow people that are disruptive or detrimental to it's business to hang out in the food court and yell obscenities at people.
Yes you are. like i said, you're free to dismiss my viewpoints for no discernible explanation, but i would most certainly like one because i think this is a topic worth discussing.
I seem to be getting a lot of arguments akin to this one: It's a private company Twitter can ban whoever they like. Well i agree that he CAN, what i'm saying is that he SHOULDN'T. I'm not defending Milo, i'm defending what i said in my original post. Milo, sadly, falls into that categoy.
Yea man protesting and deplatforming only makes them stro---
No, this is literally the exact opposite of what happened.
Trump happened because we literally did NOTHING to stop the conversation from happening. Rather than immediately step in and say "woah woah woah you're fucking crazy get the fuck out", we're like "nah man let's hear them out", and essentially gave legitimacy to the "Make America Great Again" platform.
You debate and debate and debate and at the end, oh what do you know they haven't changed their opinion 1 bit because they were never intending to have an honest debate with you, they simply wanted their message to be heard by others, hoping to influence and gain in numbers. It doesn't matter how badly you think you "owned" them in the debate, they were never interested in "winning".
Being able to spread their hate is all they wanted. Letting Milo back on twitter is 100% better for him, and 100% worse for us.
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jaffe is an idiot
he went out of his way to both sides gamergate back in the day
i spoke my mind about him in another thread quite long ago and caught a ban/warning, so i'll just leave it at that
he went out of his way to both sides gamergate back in the day
i spoke my mind about him in another thread quite long ago and caught a ban/warning, so i'll just leave it at that
You are defending Milo. You are working very hard to defend Milo.
Can't wait to never hear of this stupid fuck ever again. Deplatforming works, especially when it comes to pedos like Milo.
Seriously, I had to recheck to make sure this topic was about THAT Milo, too, as people are defending him... somehow? What?
Seriously, I had to recheck to make sure this topic was about THAT Milo, too, as people are defending him... somehow? What?
Many people avoid the crazy asshole on the corner screaming racist shit. But for some people they'll stand there and debate a nutcase and lecture us because we didn't listen to his ramblings.
Obviously what gets lost here is that hate speech has consequences, these people aren't leaving these events going home and baking cookies... No these people leave with agendas... Whether its to terrorize a minority, transgender, etc.. Or maybe its to never ever hire said group, or maybe its to lynch, kill, rape said group... Maybe its slow care at a hospital resulting in someones death... Or maybe someone's kid is getting scholarships sent to the school and the racist coach isnt giving them to him(yes this happened) These people who champion freedom of speech at all cost... Blow my mind.. They act as if hate speech just stops... I also think its easy for jaffe to take this stance when he has. 00001% of ever being directly impacted by hate speech.
He's not being censored
Look, anti-abortion protesters can gather out front of an abortion clinic on public property all they want, if they have their permits and aren't violent the government can't do anything. The second they step onto the private property of the clinic however they can be arrested for trespassing. People who are arguing for Milo having his free speech rights taken away, do you think the anti-abortion protesters should be allowed on the property of the clinic? In the clinic? In the exam rooms?
Those saying that freedom of speech pertains to the government and not private corporations or platforms like twitter...you are both absolutely correct and missing the larger point.
Twitter / the internet in general is a unique bastion of (crazy) freespeech, and I don't want to see that go away. Of course they have the right to ban anyone they want, but we as a society have to decide if we want the internet to be safer and homogenized or edgy and fucked up.
Milo is a turdbag but at least he's interesting. I'd rather listen to him than one of the late-night talking heads.
Twitter / the internet in general is a unique bastion of (crazy) freespeech, and I don't want to see that go away. Of course they have the right to ban anyone they want, but we as a society have to decide if we want the internet to be safer and homogenized or edgy and fucked up.
Milo is a turdbag but at least he's interesting. I'd rather listen to him than one of the late-night talking heads.
The idea that it's discriminatory to not tolerate discriminatory and outright bigoted speech is dumb. Treating every idea like it has equal merit is also dumb.
This has nothing to do with comedians saying jokes, Milo has doxxed and tried to get his hate brigade to assault people. This borders on criminal activity. Please address this point not hide behind some silly platitudes like you're doing: "boring world full of fragile individuals who don't understand that life is tough but also beautiful". That means nothing, engenders no discussion, just sounds smart but is absolutely worthless.
It's interesting that people think this is banning free speech (it's not, that is a government thing not a private company thing). It's also interesting that this concept is never brought up in the context of the US government (you know where free speech is actually the first Amendment of the Constitution). That same US government where the current federal administration is banning the use of the words 'climate change' in scientific divisions.
What is edgy about doxxing and trying to assault people? What is edgy about supporting child pornography? These are all things Milo has done. Address these please.
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You'd rather listen to someone who's doxxed people and engaged in hateful rhetoric against women and minorities, as well as openly defended pedophilia, than John Oliver because at least Milo is interesting.
You're an amazing specimen of humanity.
Exactly. Freedom of speech doesn't extend to "being able to say anything anywhere on the Internet if the site ownership doesn't like it". Banning hate speech/deplatforming is the right moral thing to do beyond all the other commercial reasons for it.
I can see where that could be potentially be problematic when you have companies as big as Facebook, but the slippery slope argument isn't a good reason to just allow anything with no standards.
I would advocate for government intervention. Many, many countries have successfully implemented hate-speech laws and are all the better for it.
But that isn't what happened though. Hate speech wasn't driven to the fringes, it was allowed to flourish and become mainstream, eventually normalised to the point of acceptability. You had political parties and media outlets dedicated to its spread, and the ones that weren't clutched their pearls at civility and being even-handed, refusing to challenge it. It wasn't suppressed in any way, that's why it's such a problem now.
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I only know you from what you've said. That's the other thing about free speech people forget, free speech has consequences. Talk like a shitbag and people will assume you are one.
Not sure what this has to do with gaming but yes, everyone should be able to have their speech on public forums. Especially ones that don't act like a private company because they have politicians in their pockets and they buy out any competitors. That is not a true free market.
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So people shouldn't be banned for literal targeted harassment, anti-semitism, transphobia, racism, from a private platform? I take it you've never been the target of any of that.
It's like saying we should tell scientists to genuinely debate flat earthers so that we have a PRoPer UNDERstanDING™ of why they're wrong.
He got banned off of twitter for breaking rules and harassing people.
He got deplatformed off of campuses for harassing students.
He got deplatformed by republicans/ CPAC for pro-pedophilia jokes.
Business ties were severed because he has no sense or professionalism and his lies finally caught up with him.
How is that censorship?
Also we don't have free speech. Neither does he in his own country... which isn't the US.
I'm not sure you know who or what you are talking about.
Rule number one of engaging with cult leaders:
Do not engage with cult leaders. They prey on people that think they can talk sense into a cultist through intellectual debate.
So you think a private entity shouldn't enforce their own platform rules? You know platforms like Twitter have those terms to protect themselves legally, right?
Knowing what Milo got banned for, are you really advocating that he shouldn't have been?
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Those saying that regardless of what a person does they should be given a platform, you are absolutely wrong and missing the larger point as you vastly downplay the fact that people can and have been victimized by this piece of shit. From university students to even celebrities like Leslie Jones.
"Well you see i'm not affected so...."
Milo has defended pedophilia, is a Neo-nazi, and has directly called out and insulted transgender students at college campuses he was speaking at along with a whole host of other hateful things. Do you really think that his words and actions have no consequences to the people that they're about?
