• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

OptiveLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,090
Edit:
OP's right.
This ain't the thread to go into that.
It's not just about the politics side. It's across a whole other spectrum of threads where sexual abuse is mentioned.
 
Last edited:

Costa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
536
Canada
Thank you for raising awareness OP. I see it happening a lot on these forums and I wish I knew how to respond better to them but it feels fruitless when I do try to bring it up.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
The OP does talk about the conflict happening in politics threads with members opening up about their assaults to explain why they won't vote for Biden. That is understandable, but it's a statement made in a discussion where people are going to push and pull for different political actions, so "I am not going to vote for Biden" is read as "You shouldn't vote for Biden", which is seen as burning it all down, and isn't met very well here.

This is why I said a few pages back that these posters probably deserve their own thread as a platform separate from the bloodsport arena that every political thread is going to be like for the rest of the year. Right now this thread is the closest we have to that.
I know that argument is happening in threads outside of this. But this OP was created to support victims and isn't engaging in that. All they said was that victims are being shamed for not supporting an alleged rapist. Then you have people thinking that suddenly means it's cool to jump in with "this is why you should vote for Biden". Again, this thread is not about that argument whatsoever.
This has everything to do with the OP (and the subsequent 8 pages of this thread, 90% of which is about the 2020 election cycle and Biden) because not only is this conversation in particular one that not only sparked the creation of this thread and is going to keep happening for another seven months, but one has to understand why it is happening and why there seems to be such a disconnect in communication on this site about it, and how to better address sensitive issues like this in the future so each and every discussion on this, or similar subjects germane to the bigger issue of talking down to survivors of sexual assault.

Hell, the point of my post is that for those with such a past, arguments voting for or against should not be the focus or subject of any response you could make, rather you understand what they are going through and direct the true blame, frustration, or vitriol to the rightful source. You apply this to similar situations even outside of voting, you emphasize and understand what they are going through and why they feel that way, not talk down to them or condescend.

My second paragraph was more a direct response to someone who noted back on page 2 or 3 that the act of bringing up voting for Biden diminishes the trauma that a sexual assault survivor has to experience in the voting situation, and my point is that this is not necessarily the case for most of the members here.
It really doesn't though. If you really think this OP is only about Biden, you haven't been paying attention over the course of ERA's existence. This has always been an issue, more or less, but has gotten much worse over time.

It's about people's behaviors and viewpoints and how it impacts victims of abuse on ERA; Biden has only further exposed that.

We need to acknowledge that this is an issue that is more deeply rooted than being exclusively political or situational. Biden was only a tipping point.

Xas, myself and other victims have voiced our concerns long before Biden started picking up steam.
 
Last edited:

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,049
It really doesn't though. If you really think this OP is only about Biden, you haven't been paying attention over the course of ERA's existence. This has always been an issue, more or less, but has gotten much worse over time.

It's about people's behaviors and viewpoints and how it impacts victims of abuse on ERA; Biden has only further exposed that.

We need to acknowledge that this is an issue that is more deeply rooted than being exclusively political or situational. Biden was only a tipping point.

I honestly do not understand how you can laser focus on one sentence that explains that my point was still relevant to the OP and the subsequent multiple pages of discussion resulting from it, and then go on to say allege that I think that this OP is "only" about Biden when I explicitly talk about how we need to address this specific example, and also get better about addressing this subject and other issues where this can come up

Like

I even explicitly stated that this issue needs to be analyzed in other situations outside of voting and Biden twice in my response
 
Last edited:

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,585
Canadia
Just wanted to echo the thanks for this. We can't allow Biden's crimes to be forgotten simply because he's the tool progressives must use to take down Trump.

You can hate Biden without being pro Trump, and given the evidence, no one should have to justify themselves for that opinion.

Empathy for all the people Trump has hurt and is hurting is crucial too. I get why tempers are flaring. No one should have to choose between empathizing with victims of racism, or empathizing with victims of rape; much less the victims themselves. It's shameful and disgusting that it's come to this. Let's try and be kind to each other.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I honestly do not understand how you can laser focus on one sentence that explains that my point was still relevant to the OP and the subsequent multiple pages of discussion resulting from it, and then go on to say allege that I think that this OP is "only" about Biden when I explicitly talk about how we need to address this specific example, and also get better about addressing this subject and other issues where this can come up

Like

I even explicitly stated that this issue needs to be analyzed in other situations outside of voting and Biden twice in my response
My only point was that the OP was not saying or implying that people who vote for Biden don't care about sexual assault survivors, so I'm not sure why that was in a general response to the thread. It's a both sides type of statement that doesn't apply here. I wasn't disagreeing with all your other points.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,049
My only point was that the OP was not saying or implying that people who vote for Biden don't care about sexual assault survivors, so I'm not sure why that was in a general response to the thread. It's a both sides type of statement that doesn't apply here. I wasn't disagreeing with all your other points.

I'm on my laptop now and mobile didn't catch that you bolded one statement in particular. I'm on the same page now that I can see you were responding to a particular comment in general.

That paragraph was more of a pointed response to something addressed on page 2 or 3 of the thread, not something in direct response to anything OP brought up as opposed to addressing one of the general conversations that came up in the topic somehow.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
I think quarantining this specific issue off to the side while allowing the rest of the political threads to continue unchanged as the bloodsport arenas that you described them as would be pretty fucked up and would go against just about everything this forum claims to stand for top down

I'm not saying that to sideline it, it should actually probably be stickied. The fact is that the current thread where a lot of this is going down, the Bernie Sanders drops out thread, is moving very fast and has too many mud fights to give this topic any air.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I'm not saying that to sideline it, it should actually probably be stickied. The fact is that the current thread where a lot of this is going down, the Bernie Sanders drops out thread, is moving very fast and has too many mud fights to give this topic any air.
That would essentially sideline it. Happens to every stickied thread pretty much. Xatszam has made a couple of these threads specifically because people keep ignoring or downplaying the issue, or even worse.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I'm on my laptop now and mobile didn't catch that you bolded one statement in particular. I'm on the same page now that I can see you were responding to a particular comment in general.

That paragraph was more of a pointed response to something addressed on page 2 or 3 of the thread, not something in direct response to anything OP brought up as opposed to addressing one of the general conversations that came up in the topic somehow.
No problem, I just wanted to make that clear, I didn't see any quotes in your post, looked like it was directed at OP.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I think quarantining this specific issue off to the side while allowing the rest of the political threads to continue unchanged as the bloodsport arenas that you described them as would be pretty fucked up and would go against just about everything this forum claims to stand for top down
Exactly. I've heard a lot of "we've got more important things to worry about right now, no one can focus on this" elsewhere on the forum.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I'm not saying that to sideline it, it should actually probably be stickied. The fact is that the current thread where a lot of this is going down, the Bernie Sanders drops out thread, is moving very fast and has too many mud fights to give this topic any air.

you really are though. you're suggesting that every other political thread on this forum carry on as usual, bloodsport arenas and all that, while this specific issue gets its own separate thing off to the side or stickied or wherever people can ignore it and continue on in all the other threads like normal.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
That would essentially sideline it. Happens to every stickied thread pretty much. Xatszam has made a couple of these threads specifically because people keep ignoring or downplaying the issue, or even worse.


But these threads effectively are the thing I'm talking about. Including this one.

You can't force people to engage with a topic, but fwiw I read sticky threads because they're at the top of the page and there is a sense that the discussion is important.

The alternative is for people to try and fit this conversation into the chaos of the other, broader thread.

What is the ideal solution on this forum for you, if a sticky is not really a sticky? And I mean separate from moderating bad posts, which should be happening regardless.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
you really are though. you're suggesting that every other political thread on this forum carry on as usual, bloodsport arenas and all that, while this specific issue gets its own separate thing off to the side or stickied or wherever people can ignore it and continue on in all the other threads like normal.

I'm not, but what's your solution?
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
What is the ideal solution on this forum for you, if a sticky is not really a sticky? And I mean separate from moderating bad posts, which should be happening regardless.

I think that's part of the problem though. For various reasons it's been hard to get moderation to focus on these more heated discussions. Many posts that should be getting proper attention are being allowed to slip through. The site's standards wind up slipping as a result though I won't deny I have specific problems with some of the ways that the moderation has been trying to address the discussion.

Concretely on this point of moderation: the 'on voting or not voting for Biden' thread was inevitably going to be locked, because it forced the survivors of violence trying to discuss their discomfort with voting for Biden directly with those sort of posters who see it as an obligated sacrifice for their political gain. The thread it pre-empted was made specifically for survivors of violence to air their grievance of that specific vote shaming, and their space was taken away in order to open up the discussion. It didn't work. Moderation needs to learn from that and be more proactive in dealing with the material differences of this disagreement.

Frankly if Biden cannot win without people who would be retraumatized at the ballot box, I think that should be taken as a sign that he is not a strong enough candidate to actually win an election and should be disqualified from the nomination by whatever means are possible.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I'm not, but what's your solution?

the staff probably need to have a meeting with specific users that this issue affects about how to go forward and it cannot be for one segregated thread, it has to apply for all political threads. victims of any kind of sexual assault, abuse, harassment, rape, anything, deserve to be able to comfortably participate in any political thread they want. giving them some separate thread because all the other threads can't possibly be moderated accordingly in a way the forum should already be doing (emphasis on this) would be a total insult to all the affected users that are just trying to make this forum a better place.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
the staff probably need to have a meeting with specific users that this issue affects about how to go forward and it cannot be for one segregated thread, it has to apply for all political threads. victims of any kind of sexual assault, abuse, harassment, rape, anything, deserve to be able to comfortably participate in any political thread they want. giving them some separate thread because all the other threads can't possibly be moderated accordingly in a way the forum should already be doing (emphasis on this) would be a total insult to all the affected users that are just trying to make this forum a better place.
Was gunna post, but this sums it up
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
the staff probably need to have a meeting with specific users that this issue affects about how to go forward and it cannot be for one segregated thread, it has to apply for all political threads. victims of any kind of sexual assault, abuse, harassment, rape, anything, deserve to be able to comfortably participate in any political thread they want. giving them some separate thread because all the other threads can't possibly be moderated accordingly in a way the forum should already be doing (emphasis on this) would be a total insult to all the affected users that are just trying to make this forum a better place.
This has happened regarding other marginalized communities here and has made a positive impact.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
the staff probably need to have a meeting with specific users that this issue affects about how to go forward and it cannot be for one segregated thread, it has to apply for all political threads. victims of any kind of sexual assault, abuse, harassment, rape, anything, deserve to be able to comfortably participate in any political thread they want. giving them some separate thread because all the other threads can't possibly be moderated accordingly in a way the forum should already be doing (emphasis on this) would be a total insult to all the affected users that are just trying to make this forum a better place.

I agree with you. The problem is that in many politics threads, a poster saying they will vote for Biden is certainly going to be hostile to victims of sexual assault, no matter how innocuous that support is. There will also probably be a lot of actual insults at victims vieled in support for Biden.

Conversely there will be a lot of people who are going to jump on anti-Biden sentiment for being pro-Trump, until someone has to out themselves as a victim to justify their position, which doesn't sound like a good situation either.

The reason I suggested a separate thread is because confining these groups into the same threads is a lot of unnecessary hostility and conflict that doesn't make any sense to me. I would defer to whatever these groups would prefer to do, but it seems like ground rules are necessary either way.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I agree with you. The problem is that in many politics threads, a poster saying they will vote for Biden is certainly going to be hostile to victims of sexual assault, no matter how innocuous that support is. There will also probably be a lot of actual insults at victims vieled in support for Biden.

Conversely there will be a lot of people who are going to jump on anti-Biden sentiment for being pro-Trump, until someone has to out themselves as a victim to justify their position, which doesn't sound like a good situation either.

The reason I suggested a separate thread is because confining these groups into the same threads is a lot of unnecessary hostility and conflict that doesn't make any sense to me. I would defer to whatever these groups would prefer to do, but it seems like ground rules are necessary either way.
Removing the discussion of allegations from political threads is literally the worst thing this site can do right now, if that's what you're suggesting. If there is simply an isolated thread, people would be able to more effectively discard these allegations.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
Removing the discussion of allegations from political threads is literally the worst thing this site can do right now, if that's what you're suggesting. If there is simply an isolated thread, people would be able to effectively discard these allegations.

It looks like a lot of animosity to me right now. What would you say is the benefit?
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
There will also probably be a lot of actual insults at victims vieled in support for Biden.

Conversely there will be a lot of people who are going to jump on anti-Biden sentiment for being pro-Trump, until someone has to out themselves as a victim to justify their position, which doesn't sound like a good situation either.

yeah these are key things that need to be addressed and should not be allowed to continue in any form on this forum. that's why a separate thread would be such a huge insult because you're conceding to these kinds of shitheads who want nothing more than to fling internet poo at people not perceived as being firmly on their "team" even if it means bullying victims of abuse. like, if you're going to list two groups of people, victims of abuse and the people who bully them, and then ask which group to cater to I think the answer is perfectly clear!
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,114
Removing the discussion of allegations from political threads is literally the worst thing this site can do right now, if that's what you're suggesting. If there is simply an isolated thread, people would be able to more effectively discard these allegations.
There was a thread for a while about the morals of voting for Biden given the allegations...it ended up getting shut down.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
There was a thread for a while about the morals of voting for Biden given the allegations...it ended up getting shut down.
I'm saying if it just so happens to pop up in random political threads, we shouldn't just shut it down and instead isolate discussion to one/specific threads where people can simply ignore it.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,771
the staff probably need to have a meeting with specific users that this issue affects about how to go forward and it cannot be for one segregated thread, it has to apply for all political threads. victims of any kind of sexual assault, abuse, harassment, rape, anything, deserve to be able to comfortably participate in any political thread they want. giving them some separate thread because all the other threads can't possibly be moderated accordingly in a way the forum should already be doing (emphasis on this) would be a total insult to all the affected users that are just trying to make this forum a better place.
So you think a trauma should allow people to give opinions others think are shit or dumb without anyone commenting?

I was almost murdered by police before (like dude has his gun drawn and pointed, waiting on me to move), and had a white dude in a MAGA hat call me a nigga but if I said all police should be killed or all white people are pieces of shit someone will say something to me. My personal trauma doesn't give me cover to say shitty stuff and not be called on it.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
So you think a trauma should allow people to give opinions others think are shit or dumb without anyone commenting?

I was almost murdered by police before (like dude has his gun drawn and pointed, waiting on me to move), and had a white dude in a MAGA hat call me a nigga but if I said all police should be killed or all white people are pieces of shit someone will say something to me. My personal trauma doesn't give me cover to say shitty stuff and not be called on it.

I think bullying victims of abuse for having misgivings about supporting a serial abuser is bad, yeah
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
Saying something like "if you don't vote for Biden you are helping Trump" should be an immediate temp ban
It is how the First Past the Post voting system works though, essentially. If you are in a state which isn't likely to swing then its kind of a moot point, but that is how the system works.

I'm kinda torn on the issue as a whole. Not on when it comes to believing women or blaming/shaming victims, thats fucking disgusting any way you look at it.

That said, I've seen far more posts that essentially put anyone who votes for Biden, whether it's someone who was with him from the beginning to anyone who is trying to get Trump out of office and is solely voting for him because their primary pick into this "fuck you moderates, why do you support rapists and hate victims?!" box or have any arguments that explain why a person might vote Biden even despite the accusations as either ignored or just turned right around to "Doesn't matter, you are just supporting a rapist. You are okay with rape if you support Biden."

If a person is making the morals argument for not voting for Biden, that is something I understand 100%, and I wouldn't condemn them or lessen their beliefs or past experiences to argue against it. But it isn't wrong to mention the fact that based on the voting system we have that not voting for one candidate(or voting for someone like a third party) ultimately ends up helping the major party further from your political stance. You are more than fine to say "fuck both of those rapists", but you can't also act as if your choice to not vote doesn't potentially have bigger implications down the road or treat people who are keeping those implications in mind when they choose to vote as nothing more than a rape apologist or any vile shit like that.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Hey so this is apparently controversial now because everyone is fucking crazy but it's still not okay to try to shame sexual assault victims into supporting an alleged rapist.
 
OP
OP
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
So bumping this back up because holy shit some of the people are just disgusting.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Unfortunately red states have a history of supporting sexy offenders. This isnt options are:

Support Biden. Hope he makes amends or whomever holds the house impeached him for sexual impropriety in Jan 2021. It'll be ugly for sure and you might taste bile for a month or two. Vote for a party, not the candidate. Get Trump out.

Don't vote, keep your morals (again fine) but Democrats have less vote share and Trump wins again. You've seen how the past three years have gone and now need to make peace that the next four years of your life he'll be that much worse. Nobody can hold that against you.

Whichever you decide is ultimately your choice. Both are predators. Both are old as fuck. Nobody will know you voted for either, but the winner will decide how your country and the less advantaged are treated.

Which one can cause you and your family more harm?
 
OP
OP
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
God fucking damnit. I'm getting panic attacks daily from these assholes. Fuck! FUCK!
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I'm avoiding that other thread like the plague. I don't feel safe posting on ERA anymore and I know I'll be attacked/harassed
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I have a crazy idea

maybe we can make this forum so victims of abuse feel comfortable posting in political threads instead of feeling like they need to quarantine themselves away out of fear of harassment or to prioritize their mental health. maybe the people who should be quarantined are the ones who would harass victims of abuse or spew so much toxicity that people are forced to abandon for their own mental health. priorities are currently completely out of whack.

this issue needs to be urgently addressed given current events
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I thought it would take longer for people on this forum to straight up call victims liars to support their own political decisions. Guess that was naive of me.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
I guess it was inevitable but even I was surprised by how blatant people were in that thread. It's like a total void of empathy.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,771
I think bullying victims of abuse for having misgivings about supporting a serial abuser is bad, yeah
So what you're saying is I should bottle all my shit up, all my pain and anxiety and trauma of what's been happening ( some extremely personally) and not reply to what you say so YOU feel better to be able to say anything you want without someone replying?
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
Unfortunately red states have a history of supporting sexy offenders. This isnt options are:

Support Biden. Hope he makes amends or whomever holds the house impeached him for sexual impropriety in Jan 2021. It'll be ugly for sure and you might taste bile for a month or two. Vote for a party, not the candidate. Get Trump out.

Don't vote, keep your morals (again fine) but Democrats have less vote share and Trump wins again. You've seen how the past three years have gone and now need to make peace that the next four years of your life he'll be that much worse. Nobody can hold that against you.

Whichever you decide is ultimately your choice. Both are predators. Both are old as fuck. Nobody will know you voted for either, but the winner will decide how your country and the less advantaged are treated.

Which one can cause you and your family more harm?
Wow. This is precisely what the OP is talking about.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,150
So what you're saying is I should bottle all my shit up, all my pain and anxiety and trauma of what's been happening ( some extremely personally) and not reply to what you say so YOU feel better to be able to say anything you want without someone replying?
you shouldn't lash out against sexual assault survivors, yes.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
So what you're saying is I should bottle all my shit up, all my pain and anxiety and trauma of what's been happening ( some extremely personally) and not reply to what you say so YOU feel better to be able to say anything you want without someone replying?

no I'm saying I think bullying victims of abuse for having misgivings about supporting a serial abuser is bad, which honestly should have been enough for this back and forth to end

but your comparison from earlier isn't quite apt here because this: "but if I said all police should be killed or all white people are pieces of shit someone will say something to me" isn't what's happening in the slightest. biden has been accused of sexual harassment by multiple women. biden has been credibly accused of rape. no one's saying they're never going to vote again, it's about the candidate who has actually committed wrong doings.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I was almost murdered by police before (like dude has his gun drawn and pointed, waiting on me to move), and had a white dude in a MAGA hat call me a nigga but if I said all police should be killed or all white people are pieces of shit someone will say something to me. My personal trauma doesn't give me cover to say shitty stuff and not be called on it.

If it makes you feel any better I will not look down on you for saying ACAB. I post to that effect on here quite regularly in fact.
Can't speak much to the MAGA shithead though; I've thankfully never had to deal with assholes like that.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,686
I'm so sorry that so few people take a second to think about the trauma and what you've been through. It would take a herculean effort to respond to every individual post that makes generalizations without thinking of you at this point. I'm sorry that you don't feel like you have a place here. I wish it was different. I want you to know that you matter, your perspective matters. There are people here who love you and value your opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.