aiswyda

Member
Aug 11, 2018
3,093
I got stuck on the final mission and opted to wait for this patch because redoing it was such a hassle as I could easily get to the last portion and then as soon as I hit the final boss rush I would die--wasn't enjoying 30-40 minutes of set up just to lose within 2 minutes after that.

Probably will be option to use medium if it doesn't work--I wanted to move down the difficulty a little but it sucked seeing that 1 star was my max (even if there are a few maps I only ever got one star on).

That being said I really wish a few of these things would have launched with the game--I likely would have enjoyed it a lot more.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,233
Glad to get the rank requirements and checkpoints, I haven't checked out online or the side modes yet so I can only assume those are needed changes also. Awesome to see them supporting the game so thoroughly and listening to the community for feedback.

As for the difficulty, I actually thought it has been pretty reasonable. I've made A or S-ranks on most main story missions in one or two tries, the side missions have been tougher and I've settled for simply finishing them a few of them, but overall pretty fair.

The key for me has been using the general as AI bait and getting trebuchets/knights near the capital. I very rarely have been able to pin down the enemy generals effectively.

I'm at 5-1, for reference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
As someone who S-ranked all the campaign from the get go I honestly don't think it is. That being said I do consider myself very well versed in these types of games. From others who I spoke to who felt it was unfair they usually cite the reason as when you first start out the enemy has quite the superior numbers/bases/etc. so it feels like its an uphill battle. And it generally can be for 3-4 turns but the AI ALWAYS employs certain strategies that are easy to take advantage of. Once you do, it turns into a curb stomp in your favor.

If the starting disadvantage is the thing that is making this game seem difficult to some players, that's a telltale sign that they are underusing the best unit in the game, the Wagon. Not just as bait or as a blocking tool, either, but for its original purpose.

The thing about Wargroove is that since there aren't any huge momentum swings from activated powers (enemy COs are quite bad at building up meter and using Grooves when they often hang around the back line for the whole map and are easily surrounded/sniped if they press forward), on the maps where you build an army and the enemy builds an army, as soon as you match them in income, you've won. As a human player you are always able to trade efficiently against equal strength from the AI, just because AI is AI, so once you outproduce them, you're only going to lose if you deliberately throw away units (by crashing them inefficiently against villages or letting the enemy hit them first) or by exposing your CO to a huge combined assault. If the enemy doesn't have a big starting advantage in income and/or material, there is literally no game.

And that's where the pacing problem is coming from. Players felt a vague desire for checkpoints because the first half is the hard part, and the rest is just busy-work, and a critical mistake in the busy-work is liable to frustrate them if it forces them to redo the hard part. It's quite rare in this game that late-game disadvantage (like besieging the enemy's entrenched position at home) is any sort of problem; it's only really the defence/escape maps (where the enemy has free unit spawns as a crutch) that have a sense of ramping up towards the end, instead of fizzling out in the middle. It doesn't help that the second half, when you close out the win, is often time-consuming in a way that just isn't very interesting—slow not because the decisions have to be careful, but because of the way reinforcement works and how long it takes for adjustments to your unit composition to kick in once you are on the enemy's side of the map. (AW gets around these things with better factory placement, defenders' advantage, enemy CO powers that actually trigger, transports that go around you to sneak in a surprise capture and keep you on your toes, and too many other subtleties to list.)

The first half is all the more difficult if you don't think about zone control and fail to observe that moving up as fast as possible, and as far as you are able to defend, gets you to parity quickly as it gives you room to capture everything up to the front line uncontested. Most maps are therefore easily addressed by building a Wagon first and shuttling your CO up to the furthest choke point you can handle. Capture behind the CO, reinforce the line, break through the line, and it's clear sailing from there.

To a certain degree, however, I also struggle to understand what else players are doing so wrong that they think this game is so hard. You can only diagnose it so far without actually watching them play and witnessing their mistakes. If anything, there are all kinds of things about Wargroove's systems and single-player experience that scream of insufficient testing against players with experience in the genre.
 

Deleted member 9857

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,977
I've been waiting for this before I tackle Act 3-3 again, I look forward to seeing how the update improves things
 

Flame Flamey

Member
Feb 8, 2018
4,641
I think I'm on the penultimate mission of the campaign, soon I'll have to take the plunge for Switch online finally, I really want to do multiplayer

I'm kind of tempted to just buy the game for Steam again instead though
 

ryushe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,817
Awesome! Time to jump back in.

Hopefully these fixes improves the overall 'snappines' of the game.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,698
Patch should be live now.

I highly recommend this video for tips on improving:

 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
To a certain degree, however, I also struggle to understand what else players are doing so wrong that they think this game is so hard. You can only diagnose it so far without actually watching them play and witnessing their mistakes. If anything, there are all kinds of things about Wargroove's systems and single-player experience that scream of insufficient testing against players with experience in the genre.

At least comparing it to Advance Wars, if you screw up your initial strategy you're less likely to be able to wriggle out of it (and it's probably going to be a slog). And then there's the missions with enemies appearing from outside of the map.

I enjoy it as a fan of the genre but I can understand why people would want it to be easier, especially if they're treating their commander like a king in chess.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
Huh, The game had some challenging missions but straight up making the previously default difficulty the "Hard" mode seems a bit excessive, the difficulty seemed adequate to what was expected of the Genre.
 

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,457
Good, this game desperately needs these improvements. I got the game a week ago and while I've been enjoying it, it's been quite absurd how some very obvious features like the ones being added have been missing. Imo the difficulty isn't hard at all, but I've played a looooot of Advance Wars in the past so I do have a head start.

The game has some glaring unit balancing issues though, pikemen are insanely overpowered, and naval units are just a mess of one-shot kills overall.
 

ErrorJustin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,478
Pretty uncommon for a game's community to have 10-12 small (and not so small) nitpicks and then have the developers fix ALL of them in short order. Really impressive.

Unit effectiveness, publicized s-ranks, mid-mission saves, unit speed... all of this is amazing and very welcome.

On the other hand, after working on a game like this for YEARS it seems a bit odd to wait until post-launch for some of this. Although I guess at some point you just have to get the game into people's hands.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,263
Chesire, UK
Add "Damage Range" option to display minimum and maximum damage on previews, instead of average damage

Holy shit, I had no idea there even was a damage range! The amount of turns that have been ruined by a 70% hit to a 70% enemy not killing it, never again!
 
Nov 8, 2017
277
Awesome, I was a victim of the hype and didn't get around to playing it yet...then saw these updates...and was waiting for them to hit before jumping in.

MEDIUM DIFFICULTY HERE I COME WOO
 

trugs26

Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,026
Thank goodness. I had to stop playing the game in anticipation of these updates. Things like no checkpoint system made this game unplayable for me. Other QoL improvements were sorely needed.

I'm so glad the devs stuck it out and did this. I'll definitely revisit and finish the game.
 

Lordciego

Member
Oct 27, 2017
532
Spain
This is exactly the type of update needed for this game, it fixes what was the worst points for the game for me in reviews and has gone from a "Interested but will not buy" to " Will buy" Just have to decide if I do it on Switch or Steam.
 

Vivian-Pogo

Member
Jan 9, 2018
2,046
The rein of Nuru continues. I'm surprised they didn't at least nerf her groove charge speed as a stopgap measure.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,369
The rein of Nuru continues. I'm surprised they didn't at least nerf her groove charge speed as a stopgap measure.
Yeah I'm surprised they did nothing to her. I feel like there will probably be a balance patch in the future though. I haven't tried Ryota since he got buffed in this patch, but maybe he's usable now?
 

Deleted member 29354

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
490
Way to go devs! These look like massive QoL updates and are most welcome. Can't wait to pick it up again.
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,023
"Hard" in campaign mode is not really hard compared to Advance Wars "hard", the opponent makes lots of predictable mistakes.

I'm rather sad that they don't implement a "war room" equivalent, it's the number one reason why I played Advance Wars hundreds of hours.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,698
Reposting from the OT:

9WQADN

New 2v2 with alternating team turns and p4 now starts with an additional property as well as additional unit p2 and p3 get.

Wargroove Wednesday!

Also, please only join if you're able to check at least once a day for your turn. 4player games go slower, but I'd like for us to finish a match :p


The rein of Nuru continues. I'm surprised they didn't at least nerf her groove charge speed as a stopgap measure.
Units cost double to spawn in now.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,233
Is the update live on Switch for anyone? I was planning on playing tonight, but it hasn't updated for me yet.
 

Kass15

Member
Jan 14, 2018
1,147
Does anyone know how to start a save file over or delete a save file? I want to start from scratch with the new update.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
Holy shit, I had no idea there even was a damage range! The amount of turns that have been ruined by a 70% hit to a 70% enemy not killing it, never again!

It's something which can escape people specially if they didn't come from Advance wars (that's where the "Luck" factor came into play).
 

GSR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,666
Oof that Nuru nerf. I'm tempted to hold off updating just so I can cheese Arcade Hard with her... but on the other hand, all of these QOL things are changes I've wanted since day one. Good on Chucklefish for improving things.

My main gripe at this point is just the AI - I recognize that they need to be able to have it move quickly even on low-end devices, but I feel like some of its more baffling behaviors at least could get tweaked.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,698
Oof that Nuru nerf. I'm tempted to hold off updating just so I can cheese Arcade Hard with her... but on the other hand, all of these QOL things are changes I've wanted since day one. Good on Chucklefish for improving things.

My main gripe at this point is just the AI - I recognize that they need to be able to have it move quickly even on low-end devices, but I feel like some of its more baffling behaviors at least could get tweaked.
In the editor you can choose AI behavior. On aggressive they definitely are more about getting properties. Wish that was a general setting.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,646
damn that seems a bit overkill, 1.5x cost would have been plenty
2x seems... fair. Really discourages from spawning the higher cost units like trebs ready to shoot and forces her to spawn smaller units in general. Would you pay 300 for a clutch spearman? Probably. 1k for a mage to ambush a witch? Probably too! But any more than that becomes suspect, so I'm ok with the implicit unit cap there. Warping units into combat should be expensive af because time trumps money here.
 

Vivian-Pogo

Member
Jan 9, 2018
2,046
Units cost double to spawn in now.
Oh, interesting. That wasn't mentioned on the patch notes when they first went up, but now it is.

I don't know if I like that change. I'd honestly prefer summoning spent units to that, but I guess they really don't want to do that to not break her puzzle mode or something
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,698
Reposting from the OT:

9WQADN

New 2v2 with alternating team turns and p4 now starts with an additional property as well as additional unit p2 and p3 get.

Wargroove Wednesday!

Also, please only join if you're able to check at least once a day for your turn. 4player games go slower, but I'd like for us to finish a match :p



Units cost double to spawn in now.
Still have room for 1 more. Been over 24 hours without a 4th player.... I could add a bot, but i feel bad for team 2 at that point.