• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,654
www.squackle.com
The last episode was pretty good but I'm like scratching my head at where the "big bad" and "tie in to doctor strange 2" speculation went. It was basically just Agnes and she's just being shelved for later. I guess she lives in the gazebo? Where is she supposed to live exactly?

the character arc of fake vision was great. No idea what the fuck happened to white vision, he just flies off and we don't even get a hint at what he is doing?

I sort of don't get why they left it like this, and a lot of the Sword stuff felt like a waste of time. Monica never used her powers to any important degree, just a hint at what she's going to do in the next captain marvel movie or something?
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
No one could forcibly lock her up. But if she was interested in redeeming herself they wouldn't have to use force.

When asked if she blamed her, Monica decided to comfort her rather than suggest that she's unwell and indebted to society. A 100% turn around from Monica's approach to dialog the last time they met.
Still not seeing this. Monica has been team "we need to help Wanda" from the moment she got thrown out of the Hex.

We're moving the goalpost. Nothing Monica said was remotely implying Wanda's behavior was "heroic".

And Wanda turning herself in absolutely doesn't mean the orderlies and guards wouldn't sedate and restrain her just like last time.
Again, SWORD was just there and they demonstrated they'd program the body of her former lover to kill her, opened fire on her children, and tried to have her outright eliminated earlier as well. No sensible person would turn themselves in like that, no matter if Monica liked her or trusted her.
 

Lemony1984

Member
Jul 7, 2020
6,733
The last episode was pretty good but I'm like scratching my head at where the "big bad" and "tie in to doctor strange 2" speculation went. It was basically just Agnes and she's just being shelved for later. I guess she lives in the gazebo? Where is she supposed to live exactly?
Did you watch both post-credits scenes? I think the final one is setup for Dr. Strange 2.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
The last episode was pretty good but I'm like scratching my head at where the "big bad" and "tie in to doctor strange 2" speculation went. It was basically just Agnes and she's just being shelved for later. I guess she lives in the gazebo? Where is she supposed to live exactly?

the character arc of fake vision was great. No idea what the fuck happened to white vision, he just flies off and we don't even get a hint at what he is doing?

I sort of don't get why they left it like this, and a lot of the Sword stuff felt like a waste of time. Monica never used her powers to any important degree, just a hint at what she's going to do in the next captain marvel movie or something?
For Dr. Strange 2 - Scarlet Witch, Chaos Magic, Darkhold. We are not getting key MCU stuff in a series. Like the writers have said. Second post-credit scene gives a major hint.

White-Vision: likely got a lot of memories to process. Then left because he had no reason to be there anymore, as his objective was invalid.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,427
Still not seeing this. Monica has been team "we need to help Wanda" from the moment she got thrown out of the Hex.

We're moving the goalpost. Nothing Monica said was remotely implying Wanda's behavior was "heroic".

And Wanda turning herself in absolutely doesn't mean the orderlies and guards wouldn't sedate and restrain her just like last time.
Again, SWORD was just there and they demonstrated they'd program the body of her former lover to kill her, opened fire on her children, and tried to have her outright eliminated earlier as well. No sensible person would turn themselves in like that, no matter if Monica liked her or trusted her.

team 'we need to help Wanda' ultimately did nothing to ensure Wanda seeks help.

Monica suggested that Wanda did an unsung deed favor the people of Westview, gave her a pat on the back and let her go.

the stern Monica who said she's "not afraid" of Wanda an hour prior, simply stepped aside without keeping it real.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
29,065


giphy.gif
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
team 'we need to help Wanda' ultimately did nothing to ensure Wanda seeks help.
What was Monica supposed to do? Who was she going to turn Wanda towards to help with controlling god-like, prophetic doom magic the world had never seen before?

Monica suggested that Wanda did an unsung deed favor the people of Westview, gave her a pat on the back and let her go.
Totally not what happened, and she let her go because, again, what else was she supposed to do? Who did Monica have on speed-dial to help with a reality-altering chaos goddess rampages?

the stern Monica who said she's "not afraid" of Wanda an hour prior, simply stepped aside without keeping it real.
The same Monica who threw her body in front of bullets a few minutes earlier? THAT Monica that wasn't "keeping it real"?
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
No one could forcibly lock her up. But if she was interested in redeeming herself they wouldn't have to use force.

When asked if she blamed her, Monica decided to comfort her rather than suggest that she's unwell and indebted to society. A 100% turn around from Monica's approach to dialog the last time they met.
lol you're still trying so hard.

Did you forget Wanda started out in the MCU as a villainous member of a Nazi terrorist organization? Or that the Sokovia Accords were fast-tracked largely because she killed a bunch of innocent civilians in Africa? Or that she spent time heavily drugged in a straight jacket at a maximum security super-prison? Her and Vision were wanted fugitives in Infinity War. She's still a wanted fugitive now.

Even still, she clearly felt ashamed and disgusted after realizing the full extent of what she put the citizens of Westview through. She immediately opened the Hex to let them escape, only closing it back up when she saw her children and husband disintegrating in front of her eyes. She saved the militia who came to murder her from Agatha's drop. In the end, she still sacrificed her family to close the Hex because she knew that the Hex was wrong.

Monica knows what she did. She knows what she gave up to let those people be free. Wanda didn't intend to create the Hex and imprison everyone. Her entire life she's known nothing but loss. Even after developing superpowers, her life continues to consist of tragedy after tragedy. Now that she finally has access some answers regarding her powers (which have caused her nothing but trouble), she took the source of those answers and went into seclusion to study where she can't hurt anyone.

Complaining that she isn't facing consequences is ludicrous. She's lost everyone close to her. She has no family left. She doesn't even have the Avengers. She has suffered. It's understandable that she is not going to volunteer to go back to being a chemically-induced vegetable at the Raft. Or worse, part of an experiment to create a brainwashed sentient weapon like they tried to make out of her husband. Why would she trust the government at this point? Thus far they have not been the "good guys."
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,275

Paul Bettany Isn't Saying Goodbye to Vision Yet

The WandaVision star talks trolling fans (and Esquire) with phony spoilers, the finale of Disney+'s hit Marvel show, and the seven words that captured the world.

Decent interview with Paul Bettany there.

On what's next:

"Well, fuck. How do I do this without spoilers? I guess we've seen what happens to Wanda when love is taken away from her."

Mhm.

"And I wonder what that would look like with Vision."

Are you going to play Vision forever?

"I love Vision. Yes, I'm in."
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,804
Clunky dialog aside, ending the situation was Monica's stated goal, which required Wanda's cooperation.

As for letting Wanda "walking" at the end, future films could delve into retributive vs rehabilitative justice as a topic.

She-Hulk covering the concept of "mens rea In this context Would be fun.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
Sure would have been nice if the show about grief addressed things like healthy ways to process it, or the dangers of escapism, or the issues with creating sentience in such circumstances, or some concept of responsibility to others even while grieving, such that Wanda feels some duty *herself* afterwards without an external force having to act on her to stop torturing people, and, you know, makes attempts at amends without heavy handed "another superpowered being forced her" but I guess "it's not the kind of show".

I guess all those times she reversed time to get an outcome she wanted, or had people fearfully ask her if she wanted a second take, or had Vision tell her that Norm was in pain, it should never be addressed. I mean, she's grieving! Plus, another secret witch killed a [possibly fake] dog; that's way worse than enslaving hundreds of people in mental torture prison. Bigger fish to fry.

"No one can beat Wanda in a fight there's just no way to address anything!"

Like, for all this "who could have forced her to do anything" talk, uh, I dunno, the answer seems super obvious to me, in that Wanda herself should come to such revelations? And not, you know, be punched into it or something? Maybe someone can try talking? You know, maybe there's a character who's good at addressing complicated topics through talking? Because the way most of us have revelations on emotional topics isn't through threat of imprisonment or physical trauma?

Normal people come around on issues of grief all the time, even without evil witches holding their fake kids hostage for a few minutes. Why, normal people even try to make amends of their own accord for the shitty things they did while grieving.
 
Last edited:

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,147
Metro Detriot
I agree, not all protagonists are heroes. Thats why heroes suggesting that Wanda was heroic is problematic. Your takeaway that neither Agatha or Wanda are good IS what the takeaway SHOULD be based on the actions we see from both characters. But thanks to the stories ultimate presentation, there are many who don't take it that way and many others who are sure what the takeaway is supposed to be.

I think the story and characterization was pretty bold up until the last episode, then it feels like at the last hour, Marvel became uncomfortable with the characterization and tried to make a story of good versus evil.

The only good people in this series are Woo, Monica. Darcy, the kids, both visions, and the towns people. The three people driving the story- Wanda, Agatha, and Hayward are all bad. Agatha just wanted power all along, Hayward was about his pet Cataract project, and Wanda worked through her grief by torturing people. It ended the way it did cause no one at the end really had the power to stop Wanda from taking off- the best they/Monica could do was have the "we cool, right/" chat in hopes Wanda would come back to reality.
 

Lemony1984

Member
Jul 7, 2020
6,733
Sure would have been nice if the show about grief addressed things like healthy ways to process it, or the dangers of escapism, or the issues with creating sentience in such circumstances, or some concept of responsibility to others even while grieving, such that Wanda feels some duty *herself* afterwards without an external force having to act on her to stop torturing people, and, you know, makes attempts at amends without heavy handed "another superpowered being forced her" but I guess "it's not the kind of show".

I guess all those times she reversed time to get an outcome she wanted, or had people fearfully ask her if she wanted a second take, or had Vision tell her that Norm was in pain, it should never be addressed. I mean, she's grieving! Plus, another secret witch killed a dog; that's way worse than enslaving hundreds of people in mental torture prison. Bigger fish to fry.

Like, for all this "who could have forced her to do anything" talk, uh, I dunno, the answer seems super obvious to me, in that Wanda herself should come to such revelations? And not, you know, be punched into it or something? Normal people come around on issues of grief all the time, even without evil witches holding their fake kids hostage for a few minutes.
The post credit scene showed that she's not over her grief and is prepared to do more fucked up stuff instead of coming to terms with it. The story isn't over.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
The post credit scene showed that she's not over her grief and is prepared to do more fucked up stuff instead of coming to terms with it. The story isn't over.
Yeah, kinda sucks. You'd think that a show about a grief would spend it's run time addressing it instead of setting it up as a sequel hook, but I guess we'll see.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I remember how someone pointed out the different color magics of Agatha and her coven of witches that lead me down a comic rabbit hole of magic, but despite not really getting Dottie's roses equaling Dottie being a witch with yellow magic, it did have me stumble on a few details that I think could make sense for thing going forward, even if we didn't get much more explanation from Wandavision's finale.

My current theory is that Agatha's magic is purple because it comes from the Dark Dimension and she channeled Dark Dimension energy through the Darkhold. Agatha having the Darkhold is not only what corrupted her early on, but it gave her access to the "darkest of magics". It also explains why she was able to "steal knowledge" since it was magic she had to study. Also, as you can see, Dormammu has some purple magical energies.

iu


In the comics, we know that Chthon wrote the Darkhold and also that Wanda got her special magical connection due to a link to Chthon. I don't know if that will still hold true in the MCU, but I could see in the MCU that Wanda's Chaos Magic could come from Chthon and would be coded red, while Dark Dimensional energy would be coded purple and Agatha's use of purple magic could be a hint that the Darkhold taps more directly into Dark Dimensional energy.

Now, getting back to Agatha's coven, the magic they had with coded blue, and we see that Billy's magic was as well, so if Wanda's "evil" Chaos Magic came from Chthon, what if the "good witch" magic came from his sister, the elder god Gaea? Gaea is also known as Mother Earth and in the real world Wiccan magic or Pagan Witchcraft is said to be Earth/nature based (probably simplified) so I could see the dichotomy of the good witch magic and the evil magic that the Dark Dimension and Chthon represents.

iu


In the MCU, it's been established in Doctor Strange that magic comes from dimensional energies, but going forward, I think they might try to separate that a bit. We already know about relics being embued with magic that is too powerful to wield and therefore know about relics like the Staff of the Living Tribunal, which would imply the magic is coming from the Living Tribunal itself rather than a dimension. Also, despite them often referring to "drawing power from the Dark Dimension" it would seem that Kaecilius and the zealots may have been drawing power from Dormammu who is the one said to have immortality and whom they pledge their service to. They could still draw power from the Dark Dimension, but it could explain the diffence between drawing power from dimensions and drawing power from entities and that way Dark Dimension energy isn't just Dormammu's energy, but also energy that Dormammu himself can draw from.

TL;DR
Dark Dimensional energy which Dormammu, Agatha, and the Darkhold uses = purple
"Good witch" energy which comes from Gaea = blue
Chaos Magic which comes from Chthon which Wanda/Scarlet Witch uses = red
 
Last edited:

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,586
Syracuse, NY
I watched Age of Ultron last night and it truly was a missed opportunity for that character to not show up in any form throughout this show, he basically made Wanda and Vision who they are, he's incredibly important to their story.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
Or that the Sokovia Accords were fast-tracked largely because she killed a bunch of innocent civilians in Africa?
I'm going to repeat myself on this one
pinning the Lagos incident on wanda is a travesty because everyone including the audience acts like Crossbones didn't do anything
Like the fault for the explosion is 90% Crossbones for ACTUALLY DOING IT and 10% Cap for getting distraced by the Bucky mention. Wanda just clutched it not enough for a lack of power at the time
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I guess when one magic user is immediately attracted to a huge spell being cast it's hard to believe another magic user wouldn't show up for the same reason, even a week later.
Strange didn't show up for a supposedly multiversal threat that was attacking Earth and another magic user from the multiverse was there fighting it and it was broadcast all over international news.

He only gets out of bed for the real shit going down.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,345
The last episode felt like vintage Marvel which is... fine. But it doesn't help it stand out with the other episodes. And Agatha is as card-carrying as it gets. But it does give us a heartbreaking ending as well as the hope of a more satisfying conclusion in the Doctor Strange and Spider-Man films.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,427
What was Monica supposed to do? Who was she going to turn Wanda towards to help with controlling god-like, prophetic doom magic the world had never seen before?
hours before the big battle, Monica dared Wanda to kill her and said "I'm not afraid of you". But that's besides the point. I'm not saying Monica needed to fight Wanda. I'm saying Monica needed not validate Wanda's actions.

Totally not what happened, and she let her go because, again, what else was she supposed to do? Who did Monica have on speed-dial to help with a reality-altering chaos goddess rampages?

no what happened was, Monica stopped Wanda for a chat long enough to acknowledge the sacrifice Wanda made on behalf of the people of Westview, and to wish her luck. Thematically, having Monica give her the Westview mean mug would have been better than having her provide validation.


The same Monica who threw her body in front of bullets a few minutes earlier? THAT Monica that wasn't "keeping it real"?

yes, the same Monica who stood infront of bullets decided to provide empathy without expectation of any sense of accountability in return. this Monica accepted Wanda's apology to Westview no questions asked- an apology so sincere, it was quietly extended to Monica, who isn't even from Westview.
 

Slyonic

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,352
I remember how someone pointed out the different color magics of Agatha and her coven of witches that lead me down a comic rabbit hole of magic, but despite not really getting Dottie's roses equaling Dottie being a witch with yellow magic, it did have me stumble on a few details that I think could make sense for thing going forward, even if we didn't get much more explanation from Wandavision's finale.

My current theory is that Agatha's magic is purple because it comes from the Dark Dimension and she channeled Dark Dimension energy through the Darkhold. Agatha having the Darkhold is not only what corrupted her early on, but it gave her access to the "darkest of magics". It also explains why she was able to "steal knowledge" since it was magic she had to study. Also, as you can see, Dormammu has some purple magical energies.

iu


In the comics, we know that Chthon wrote the Darkhold and also that Wanda got her special magical connection due to a link to Chthon. I don't know if that will still hold true in the MCU, but I could see in the MCU that Wanda's Chaos Magic could come from Chthon and would be coded red, while Dark Dimensional energy would be coded purple and Agatha's use of purple magic could be a hint that the Darkhold taps more directly into Dark Dimensional energy.

Now, getting back to Agatha's coven, the magic they had with coded blue, and we see that Billy's magic was as well, so if Wanda's "evil" Chaos Magic came from Chthon, what if the "good witch" magic came from his sister, the elder god Gaea? Gaea is also known as Mother Earth and in the real world Wiccan magic or Pagan Witchcraft is said to be Earth/nature based (probably simplified) so I could see the dichotomy of the good witch magic and the evil magic that the Dark Dimension and Chthon represents.

iu


In the MCU, it's been established in Doctor Strange that magic comes from dimensional energies, but going forward, I think they might try to separate that a bit. We already know about relics being embued with magic that is too powerful to wield and therefore know about relics like the Staff of the Living Tribunal, which would imply the magic is coming from the Living Tribunal itself rather than a dimension. Also, despite them often referring to "drawing power from the Dark Dimension" it would seem that Kaecilius and the zealots may have been drawing power from Dormammu who is the one said to have immortality and whom they pledge their service to. They could still draw power from the Dark Dimension, but it could explain the diffence between drawing power from dimensions and drawing power from entities and that way Dark Dimension energy isn't just Dormammu's energy, but also energy that Dormammu himself can draw from.

TL;DR
Dark Dimensional energy which Dormammu, Agatha, and the Darkhold uses = purple
"Good witch" energy which comes from Gaea = blue
Chaos Magic which comes from Chthon which Wanda/Scarlet Witch uses = red

I don't think Agatha's magic comes from the Dark Dimension. Remember, Kaecilius and his followers all got those purple eyes when using magic from the Dark Dimension.

Personally, I think in the MCU there's a difference between sorcerers/sorceresses and witches.
 

KadeYuy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,068
the zoom on the cabin and reading evil book in cabin gave me raimi vibes. Was it an intentional nod or an I overthinking it?
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,342
I don't think Monica was trying to forgive Wanda or say that she did the people of Westview a favor. I think she was just trying to reiterate to Wanda that she ultimately did the right thing in the end.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,077
Melbourne, Australia
I still don't really get what Marvel was going for with the Evan Peters cameo. It just got people needlessly excited for no reason (which they had to anticipate), and it's not like they did anything remotely interesting with the Fake Pietro character otherwise. I never had much affinity about Aaron Taylor Johnson's Quicksilver, but looking back on WandaVision now, it seems that would have been a much better use of screentime tbh. Even just for some flashbacks between him and Wanda.

Hell, the show would be better if most of the side characters were gone tbh. Darcy, Jimmy and Hayward largely only existed for awkward exposition. Even Monica barely justified her screentime in the end, and it feels like she was only there to quickly establish her as a powered-person for her next appearance.

What's Dr. Strange's power level like without the time stone?
It's really hard to gauge this kind of thing, because the characters generally seem to be as powerful as they need to be for the plot to work. Vision seemed extremely powerful in Age of Ultron and Civil War, only to get taken down like a chump in Infinity War by the same Goblin creature who was later kicked around by Black Widow and Falcon. Now he's back to seeming pretty powerful again in WandaVision. It's all over the place.

Doctor Strange on the other hand has neutralized Loki with zero effort, and as mentioned above he at the very least wasn't decimated by Thanos in a 1v1...but he was also knocked out pretty damn easily by Ebony Maw, one of Thanos' henchmen in Infinity War.
 
Last edited:

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
The only good people in this series are Woo, Monica. Darcy, the kids, both visions, and the towns people. The three people driving the story- Wanda, Agatha, and Hayward are all bad. Agatha just wanted power all along, Hayward was about his pet Cataract project, and Wanda worked through her grief by torturing people. It ended the way it did cause no one at the end really had the power to stop Wanda from taking off- the best they/Monica could do was have the "we cool, right/" chat in hopes Wanda would come back to reality.
See I just don't come away from the finale thinking that the show wants us to view Wanda as anything other than "a troubled woman with some things to work out"
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,416
Beaumont, CA
Not sure if talked about here already. I noticed there was a trend on Twitter and it was about MCU fans arguing with Comic Book fans about Wanda's ethnicity and Olsen playing her is whitewashing. Not sure what you guys think about it.

I feel it's an unfortunate carry-over of the early, Ike-controlled MCU and I think if Wanda was cast NOW we'd probably have someone more accurate but that shouldn't downplay just how amazing the performance from Olsen was.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I don't think Agatha's magic comes from the Dark Dimension. Remember, Kaecilius and his followers all got those purple eyes when using magic from the Dark Dimension.

Personally, I think in the MCU there's a difference between sorcerers/sorceresses and witches.
You mean the purple around their eyes? The same thing doesn't happen to The Ancient One, she just had the symbol to summon Dormammu on her forehead. That's why I think it could just be tied directly to drawing power from Dormammu himself, and not necessarily from the Dark Dimension.

Also, there is certainly overlap between how sorcerers and witches have been portrayed in the MCU. Agatha mentions that the Scarlet Witch is more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme. We also see Wanda doing a form of Astral Projection to study, just like Strange did. We also hear how Agatha's coven did some incantations in Latin, which Dormammu's zealots also appear to do incantations in Latin. Agatha also tells Wanda about the fundamentals of magic and the years of study it takes to achieve. It could be them using different types of magic and methods to get similar outcomes, but I don't necessarily think it's completely different, and we'll probably find that out in MoM.
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,205
See I just don't come away from the finale thinking that the show wants us to view Wanda as anything other than "a troubled woman with some things to work out"


Yeah, that was the impression I took away from it. Not "Wanda is still on a dangerous path and close to becoming the villain" but a "hero whose grief made her accidentally do some bad things but who viewers should ultimately see as good."