Mass Effect 3 is great in hindsight, especially with the fixes and the addition of "the citadel".
Mass Effect 3 is great in hindsight, especially with the fixes and the addition of "the citadel".
I forgot about this one, too, which I think says a lot. From Dragon Ball Z energy beam wars to the godawful shit they did to Kerrigan's character (who I'd say was one of the best video game antagonists period in the original and Brood War)... that story was something.Oh, how could I forget Starcraft 2?
Brood War Raynor: Fuck you Kerrigan. I'll avenge Fenix and all the other people you have killed. I'll kill you someday.
Starcraft 2 Raynor: Dude, I will save Sarah from the Zerg.
And that's the least offensive. The story goes even worse in each expansion.
Destiny (1)
The promises of deep lore prerelease, I have never forgiven them. Still think it's a great game, but certainly not for story/lore.
Didn't they change a bunch of story stuff pretty late in development?Funny you should mention this. I recently discovered My Name is Byf on YouTube, who goes down the rabbit hole of Destiny lore. It is shocking just how deep that lore runs. I'm a huge Destiny fan but why oh why did they not make it all easily accessible in the game from then get go.
I will say that I really liked the book-end to this in Shadow. In the oil refinery, there's a one-on-one combat scene that mimics her first fight almost exactly, but the game takes a moment on it. It's to show just how far she's come from those early days on Yamatai and how ruthless she's become. I thought that was a pretty good character progression moment.The biggest offender in a long while has to be the Tomb Raider Reboot
...
Then the sequels immediately threw that shit away along with Sam to go "I must avenge my father from the evil organization Trinity! Also I really love killing even though I say I don't!"
"Behold, for I am the end, the doom, the absolute singularity of insanely stupid deus ex machina bullshit! You thought you did anything useful until now? NOPE! Fuck you and your journey, now go press one of these three buttons to get your choice of colored ending!"
-Mass Effect 3
Red Dead Redemption 2's story went south the further it progressed, into Lemoyne.
Assassins Creed - The Thread.
They fired the director to force out annual sequels and the story has never actually progressed since the 2nd game. And I say this as someone who loves assassins creed.
Star Control 2. Knights of the Old Republic 2. Neverwinter Nights 2. Fallout: New Vegas. Dungeon Siege 3.Every video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
I know I'm beaten but
This motherfucker hurt me so much.
It's the sequel to Virtue's Last Reward, an amazing visual novel/escape room puzzler hybrid which was itself a (somewhat tacked-on) sequel for 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors.
Riposa in pace, dolce amore, in pace...
999 was completely self contained. It was a story of 9 people who woke up inside a cruise ship and learned they had 9 hours to escape, through a door marked with a 9.
VLR took that story and its reveals and kind of ran with it, in a very respectable way and holding a few new characters as front and centre. It brought its own thematic elements, expanded the concepts 999 introduced, and recontextualized some details from the previous game. It had its shortcomings -a far more tame atmosphere, wackier twists, a shift to 3DS models that did the great character designs no justice- but overall it was an adventure worthy of succeeding 999.
One fact is important, however: It explained its own events very well, but ended on a huge cliffhanger. The events of the third game were set up extremely heavily, tying into all sorts of backstories and bits of unexplained foreshadowing and a new looming mastermind.
Come 2014, this third game's development was put on hold because VLR bombed in Japan. I know because I bought VLR about three days before its sequel got put on hold.
The next year was basically a flurry of fan campaigning. Facebook campaigns, collages sent from ardent fans to Spike Chunsoft and to Kotaro Uchikoshi (series writer-director) for support...
During that year, I ate, drank and breathed Zero Escape. VLR had rocked my world, and got me interested in seeing the narratives only games can convey. There was a sense of unity in the fandom I've simply never seen in any other gaming community ever since. (There was so little toxicity, I feel, that even the threads about the series on /v/ were welcoming and approachable). Thousands of us kept trying to achieve one goal: Bringing back Zero Escape 3.
Aksys, the company who localized the first two games, put up a cryptic teaser on March 18th, 2015.
This image. The hashtag #4infinity.
People went wild. We scoured every inch of the website looking for some clue that this was Zero Escape 3. (the 0-3 felt too good to be true so we needed more.)
Every week, the counter went down and a new word appeared. In the meantime people tried to decipher what this was about.
Here's the answer: It was a countdown for 3 WEEKS and 3 MONTHS. Counter went like this: 0303,0302,0301,0300,0203,0201...
At Anime Expo 2015, July 3rd, Zero Escape 3 was announced.
That announcement is my favorite moment in gaming. Period. I literally tear up and get goosebumps every time I watch it, still. Seeing that happen is unironically one of my most treasured memories, ever.
(VLR SPOILERS)
It was a goddamn 4 month long teaser, the stream never worked so we actually learned the announcement from livetweeters, and it would be another 6 months before we got more information besides a piece of concept art (the first pic in this post, and only the pic, the logo and name came later), and people who preordered the game first got it the latest (a month late) due to limited edition watch fuckery. But Uchikoshi standing there and pronouncing that Zero Escape 3 was alive and was coming in a year was worth EVERYTHING.
(Edit: The thread on the old site about this is literally my favorite thread of all time. Those were the good days...)
Game ultimately comes out, reviews are great, the premise sounds amazing, the game's somehow not a visual novel anymore but a Telltale-esque adventure game in 3D, and nothing stops this train.
...Except the part where the game itself shat the bed.
Most importantly, it just tried to act like it was not a sequel to Virtue's Last Reward at all. The few but important mysteries left hanging from its predecessor -the root of an illness, the identity of a major character- were relegated to afterthoughts, only appearing right before an ending to provide a haphazard explanation for what was going on. Characters weren't sophisticated like they were in the previous games.
There was some amazing new music, but they played for practically 1/3 of the game and the rest were remixes or straight lifts of songs from previous games- they got so overplayed they took the impact out of some of the most impactful tracks from both games.
The game, due to plot devices, separated the 9 main characters into groups of 3 and they were kept in those groups until the last 10%-20% of the game. All character development got stilted, and the character interactions in the first 2 hours were basically repeated throughout the game.
On top of that, the ending was open-ended again with a few deus ex machina devices plopping open and oozing out of the plot holes left unexplained or handwaved in both games to deliver a "power of friendship yay!" message. And I actually came around to the game's nihilistic themes, if only it had executed them anywhere near competently.
The new Telltale style turned out pretty horrible with characters barely showing emotion, hamstring animation making comic puppetry out of scenes that would've destroyed me if properly done. The new characters being utterly uninteresting for the most part, the game being significantly shorter compared to VLR, and an ending so haphazardly put together and hilariously contrived that they would've made the most bizarre and hilarious memes I've ever seen, if even thinking of them didn't ruin my day because I remembered the ending was so shit, were the icing on the shit cake that is Zero Time Dilemma splattered with the bones, flesh and blood of my expectations from this game.
I am happy we got it, for closure's sake, for otherwise I would've spent my days wishing for a Zero Escape 3 still.
But that doesn't mean it has been any less a disappointment for me and many more people I know. 999 steered in my life in a new direction and VLR was my favorite game of all time for years. I made friends thanks to those two games, I found out about visual novels, I got more engaged with games overall, I found a new love for sci-fi thanks to VLR, they shaped who I am and perhaps will ever be.
After Zero Time Dilemma, I cannot recommend this series in good faith anymore. I know some people have enjoyed ZTD and I'm genuinely happy for them- I wish I did, too.
Kingdom Hearts: the thread
Take a charming story with simple, cohesive themes and turn it into a convoluted anime circle jerk.
The hero of the Citadel who prevented the back-door Reaper attack in 2183 that could've caused galaxy-wide genocide as it did all previous cycles of civilization every 50K years.
ME1 and 2: Prevent the Reaper invasion to save the Galaxy!
ME3: How about "SAVE EARTH" from the Reaper invasion!? Yeah, saving Earth sounds way cooler. Also screw that we had a council of humans (potentially) in ME2, and your councilor (potentially) got sick of politics so he's the guy who defends Earth while you distract every other race from their repelling of Reapers on homeworlds to come join your pointless fight on Earth.
Ashley Williams: "What are we gonna do? Shoot bullets at those things?"
Game: "Yes, Ashley. Just line up the ground troops because this is WAR now."
People: "So do we know how to actually hurt Reapers?"
*Everyone shrugs*
Plot: "There's a deus ex machina superweapon where we didn't look all along! However we have no idea what it does but just put faith in it!"
Player: "Ok what about Cerberus, they looked into the Reaper stuff in 2."
Game: "They're indoctrinated and Illusive Man is EVIL now."
Player: "...When the fuck did that happen?"
Game: "Timeskip!"
Player: "But... I didn't even give him the collector base?"
Game: "..."
Catalyst: "Hi, I'm the ending, the subject that ties everything together is now suddenly Organics vs Synthetics and your choices thus far don't mean anything so here's 3 choices that resolve Organics vs Synthetics because that's totally the real story we're telling now, just deal with it."
Fuck that game.
KotoR2Every video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
The ending was so bad I guess it makes the rest of the game look amazing in comparison.For real. The premise of the third game was so fucking stupid that I couldn't even play it for more than a few hours.
I don't get how people even made it to the ending only to start complaining then. The game was undermining everything you'd done from the beginning.
I'm playing Valkyria Chronicles 4 right now and the "comfyness" of the game got me thinking on VC1's ugly late game where you're supposed to care more for the Booby Witch enemy than a massive chunk of your own countryfolk who died FROM HER ACTIONS cuz they're like mean or something. Then there's the end boss who was FFXII's all over again. *SNOORRRRRE*
another counterexample: nier automata :PI regret my previous stance, but still believe 99.9% of game stories turn to trash as they strive to make excuses for a sequel.
Yeah it was mentioned and I feel silly for not thinking of it earlier.
Baldur's Gate 2Every video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
Every video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
I loved the entire game (well, most of it) but that first story arc definitely had a certain zing to it that the others didn't.Persona 5. Oh god, Persona 5.
The first arc is legit good with a real prickish villian that I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with but is rarely shown in media. The main cast is at their best with motivations that make sense and some real discussion on if what they're doing is right or wrong. Each arc after that ditches all of those points and gets progressively worse until all the characters are ruined and anime nonsense is in full effect.
I don't know if I feel as violently about it as you do, but it felt like P3 and P4 reached the potential of their settings and their plot devices while P5 fell short of what it promised...Persona 5. Oh god, Persona 5.
The first arc is legit good with a real prickish villian that I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with but is rarely shown in media. The main cast is at their best with motivations that make sense and some real discussion on if what they're doing is right or wrong. Each arc after that ditches all of those points and gets progressively worse until all the characters are ruined and anime nonsense is in full effect.
This isn't true, though. Assassin's Creed's plot has been moving in a very clear direction for the past two games. AC: Odyssey was full of revelations about the true nature of reality. The ending of Odyssey firmly presses the fragmented pieces of Assassin's Creed lore into a nice little ball that will prove useful for the next game. It's not Kingdom Hearts. Reality is a simulation, and you need to escape the simulation because it's trying to kill you and it keeps getting closer to that goal. That's the plot. That's the only thing players truly need to understand. The Isu? That's important but it's ultimately just something needed to understand what is truly going on. Look at The Matrix. Is understanding the history of The Agents and The One necessary? It's helpful, but as long as you understand the Matrix is not real and there is a layer of reality above it (and maaaaaabye a layer of reality above that ostensibly real layer) you're golden.Assassins Creed - The Thread.
They fired the director to force out annual sequels and the story has never actually progressed since the 2nd game. And I say this as someone who loves assassins creed.
Train go boom.
I feel the opposite, not only it conveyed its themes successfully, but also the whole idea of persona better than any persona game.I don't know if I feel as violently about it as you do, but it felt like P3 and P4 reached the potential of their settings and their plot devices while P5 fell short of what it promised...
This, game drops all pretenses once that one characters apartment tries to kill him. And it is amazing
Every video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
While I agree with you in principle, The Witcher 3 pretty badly derails if you look at it as a sequel to The Witcher 2. Most of the actually important story stuff goes unresolved in favor of plot elements that basically come out of nowhere, character personality and motivations are all over the place, and the time jump is almost Crysis 2/3-tier, IMO. I think that overall TW3 benefits from being a game where most people didn't play its predecessor and it's viewed as a standalone thing.The Witcher 3
Kotor 2
BG2
Fallout 2 & NV
Do you want more or I'll just stop?
planescape tormentEvery video game story ever, as soon as there are sequels involved.
Prove me wrong.
Yes please stop. I might have to edit my post at this point.The Witcher 3
Kotor 2
BG2
Fallout 2 & NV
NWN2 & MOTB
Do you want more or I'll just stop?
While I agree with you in principle, The Witcher 3 pretty badly derails if you look at it as a sequel to The Witcher 2. Most of the actually important story stuff goes unresolved in favor of plot elements that basically come out of nowhere, character personality and motivations are all over the place, and major plotlines kinda vanish into thin air. I think that overall TW3 benefits from being a game where most people didn't play its predecessor and it's viewed as a standalone thing.
This wasn't the case for me, but i'm suprise nobody mention Star Ocean 3....
mass effect 3 gave me bad vibes from the very beginning. like something was off but i couldnt tell entirely til i hit the ending. it was like a flood hit my mind of everything wrong with the game and im not even talking about the endings which is a whole subject on to itself. everything me2 improved on was completely gone and i felt like a stranger on the normandy.For real. The premise of the third game was so fucking stupid that I couldn't even play it for more than a few hours.
I don't get how people even made it to the ending only to start complaining then. The game was undermining everything you'd done from the beginning.