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Valve removed another visual novel with loli sex content without telling the publisher

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theosmeo

theosmeo

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Oct 27, 2017
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Was it bokuten? The reason I ask is because i saw this earlier without context on twitter. I have not played the game

https://twitter.com/le_kaitsu/status/1288292273684389888?s=20 "(link to the tweet by someone who worked on the game)

In the replies they get asked if they know why it was taken down, but they say there's no reason so i was unsure. In another tweet they mention that it had an adult and all ages version tho.

For the record in my opinion 100% a game like this should be taken down, I didnt even know about it until today. Maybe steam should have sent them an email explaining things but all in all im not that concerned about proud pedophiles
 
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Layla

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Oct 25, 2017
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Interesting that Valve were OK selling it for 8 months, I wonder what happened to change their mind?
Having a quick look at Steam I see they are still selling two of the most infamous loli games, albeit in cut form.
 

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ThereAreFourNaan said:
The version released did not contain any of the stuff that would get it banned. The Publisher of the game then offers a free download on their website which contains the banned/illicit content. You mod the game you bought on Steam to put it back in.

This is clearly a circumvention of the rules, so it get shut down when noticed.
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i see, thanks for the explanation.
 
CerealKi11a

CerealKi11a

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Good. Maybe if the creators wanted the game to stay up, they wouldn't circumvent the rules to ensure they can still include their gross content
 
Theswweet

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Completely ignoring the very legitimate concerns about whether these 18+ patches should even exist, it's clear that somebody at Valve has it out for MangaGamer specifically. Bokuten is one thing, but some of MG's titles that are all-ages from the start or if 18+ only included adults have still been dinged in the past, meanwhile games like Wonderful Everyday and even Muv-Luv are completely fine on Steam.

At this point I think folks more than understand that these patches may be the problem, but even if that's what's causing Valve to delist games, why are they seemingly targetting MG specifically, when they've been going out of their way to adjust content for Valve, and would do even more if they knew the specific line that they can't cross? There's a double-standard here.

Again - 18+ patches including underaged characters is fucked up, and I won't even try to defend them as a concept. The real issue is that *if* that's what Valve has a problem with, they've been only dinging MangaGamer for it, and no other VN publishers. Why is that?
 

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Sage said:
What about unofficial? Because that'll just happen anyway.
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That's not something the publisher can control just like Bethesda can't control 'porn' mods for Skyrim. If the cut content is not translated and offered on a plate it will be harder or at least it will make it clear that the actual value of the game is not that.

That depends of the actual premise of the game and context, obviously. There's a lot of high school romance VN or actual interesting plots that are perfectly fine without the sexual content and which actual value resides on it's characters, story and plot.

Publishers needs to choose between bringing games for creeps or people who just want to play good VNs
 
The Benz

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Oct 27, 2017
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Yeah, fuck Valve for even selling this shit in the first place. I hope they start cracking down on these games even harder.
 
Bucca

Bucca

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The amount of porn and hentai games on steam is really staggering. I'll just go through my discovery queue to see what kind of absurd shit pops up
 

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Kain-Nosgoth said:
why should something that has no loli in it should get banned though?
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Because since Valve makes no effort on checking these games not just for underaged sex, but also for things like depictions of rape, sexual abuse,etc.. they should ban altogether it since they don't make the effort to properly filter their sexual games catalogue.
 
Launchpad

Launchpad

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Oct 26, 2017
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They should be better about removing stuff like this when it is first put up but I'm not going to shed any tears for this publisher and it's gross as fuck game.
 
.exe

.exe

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Theswweet said:
Completely ignoring the very legitimate concerns about whether these 18+ patches should even exist, it's clear that somebody at Valve has it out for MangaGamer specifically. Bokuten is one thing, but some of MG's titles that are all-ages from the start or if 18+ only included adults have still been dinged in the past, meanwhile games like Wonderful Everyday and even Muv-Luv are completely fine on Steam.

At this point I think folks more than understand that these patches may be the problem, but even if that's what's causing Valve to delist games, why are they seemingly targetting MG specifically, when they've been going out of their way to adjust content for Valve, and would do even more if they knew the specific line that they can't cross? There's a double-standard here.

Again - 18+ patches including underaged characters is fucked up, and I won't even try to defend them as a concept. The real issue is that *if* that's what Valve has a problem with, they've been only dinging MangaGamer for it, and no other VN publishers. Why is that?
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Yeah, that's been my issue with Valve's approach. I really don't like a lot of Mangagamer's output, but they've been putting resources, translators towards making these games available in a format that doesn't have adult content in it for the sole purpose of putting it on Steam. Like, you said, if the terms were at least clear -- x, y, z isn't allowed and don't provide "patches", etc. -- I bet they would abide to it. I don't know about MG being targeted more than others, but it's part of Valve's generally wishy washy approach to this. There's a ton of highly suggestive stuff in many Japanese games, like Stein's Gate (0) and Persona 4. Valve should be clearer and consistent.
 

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Kain-Nosgoth said:
wouldn't it be better to... just make the effort then, instead of just banning everything?
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They clearly are not interested in making the effort. Is not like banning them from Steam means banning them from earth, these game can be sold in other platforms. The thing is that the current situation is a mess and their own policies don't work. So the solution is to ban games that comes with official '+18' patches.
 
Theswweet

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Relaxed Muscle said:
Because since Valve makes no effort on checking these games not just for underaged sex, but also for things like depictions of rape, sexual abuse,etc.. they should ban altogether it since they don't make the effort to properly filter their sexual games catalogue.
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They do check these games. The whole reason folks have been up in arms over Bokuten is that it had been approved for 8 months, when other games had been banned during submission.

Valve clearly has guidelines. The problem is that they seem to be inconsistent on them, which doesn't help anyone.
 

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Theswweet said:
They do check these games. The whole reason folks have been up in arms over Bokuten is that it had been approved for 8 months, when other games had been banned during submission.

Valve clearly has guidelines. The problem is that they seem to be inconsistent on them, which doesn't help anyone.
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They have guidelines, but they are not enough. If they just filter underaged sexual content, they are still letting a lot of shit through the net.
 
VariantX

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ThereAreFourNaan said:
The version released did not contain any of the stuff that would get it banned. The Publisher of the game then offers a free download on their website which contains the banned/illicit content. You mod the game you bought on Steam to put it back in.

This is clearly a circumvention of the rules, so it get shut down when noticed.
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Yeah, smells like they want to use the platform and the benefits that come with it but not follow the content rules that Valve put in place.
 
Theswweet

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Relaxed Muscle said:
They have guidelines, but they are not enough. If they just filter underaged sexual content, they are still letting a lot of shit through the net.
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I don't disagree, but like I said in my first post - if the patches are truly the issue, why is it only MangaGamer getting hit for them? The root of the problem is that Valve is applying its rules inconsistently, which is a problem. Everyone reasonable is fine with these patches going the way of the dodo, but we can't even be sure if Valve has a problem with those patches specifically, when other games from other publishers aren't getting banned for the same reason.

If Wonderful Everyday can be on Steam, why is Valve delisting MangaGamer's stuff? FFS take a hardline stance and apply your guidelines equally. If that means no 18+ patches allowed, fine. If that means no VNs at all? Also fine. At this point folks just want to know where the line is, they're perfectly fine by abiding with it.
 
.exe

.exe

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Theswweet said:
I don't disagree, but like I said in my first post - if the patches are truly the issue, why is it only MangaGamer getting hit for them? The root of the problem is that Valve is applying its rules inconsistently, which is a problem. Everyone reasonable is fine with these patches going the way of the dodo, but we can't even be sure if Valve has a problem with those patches specifically, when other games from other publishers aren't getting banned for the same reason.

If Wonderful Everyday can be on Steam, why is Valve delisting MangaGamer's stuff? FFS take a hardline stance and apply your guidelines equally. If that means no 18+ patches allowed, fine. If that means no VNs at all? Also fine. At this point folks just want to know where the line is, they're perfectly fine by abiding with it.
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Exactly. It could be such a formative moment for Japanese-produced (localized versions of) visual novels. If they set a clear standard, it could catalyze a trend away from skeezy content altogether which I would love.
 
purseowner

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Sage said:
Funny thing about this is that Nintendo Online Store is probably the most lenient to adult content in visual novels now. Who would've thought that 5 years ago.
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Yeah, I came to this conclusion recently and find it astounding that this is the state of affairs now.

Theswweet said:
Completely ignoring the very legitimate concerns about whether these 18+ patches should even exist, it's clear that somebody at Valve has it out for MangaGamer specifically. Bokuten is one thing, but some of MG's titles that are all-ages from the start or if 18+ only included adults have still been dinged in the past, meanwhile games like Wonderful Everyday and even Muv-Luv are completely fine on Steam.

At this point I think folks more than understand that these patches may be the problem, but even if that's what's causing Valve to delist games, why are they seemingly targetting MG specifically, when they've been going out of their way to adjust content for Valve, and would do even more if they knew the specific line that they can't cross? There's a double-standard here.

Again - 18+ patches including underaged characters is fucked up, and I won't even try to defend them as a concept. The real issue is that *if* that's what Valve has a problem with, they've been only dinging MangaGamer for it, and no other VN publishers. Why is that?
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Yeah, it does seem to be MangaGamer they're out for.

There are countless VNs on Steam with optional off-site 18+ patches, and I remain baffled as to how Steam allowed any of them in the first place given their ideology and content policies. For localisations of VNs that have all-ages versions in the first place, I see little issue for any party. But a lot of VNs on Steam now are essentially censored or content-incomplete without the 18+ patch, as an all-ages version was never produced Japan-side. Most purchasers of these games will be in the know enough to understand this history, and are likely to seek out the patch after purchasing. In these cases, I do feel there is an argument to be made here for the player wanting to preserve artistic integrity and the creator's original intent/vision without devolving into accusations of defence of lolicon. Non all-ages releases are in essence being censored or content-modified to fit Steam's platform. Which leads me to wonder why they're being produced and sold there in the first place. Totono is a recent example - the translator said on Twitter that to get the full intent of the work, the eroge scenes are necessary, and recommended against the Steam version. Great effort is being made to create products that are skirting the boundary of acceptability on Steam.

I am not defending the culture of lolicon and sexualised minors that pervades Visual Novels - I find that deeply problematic and worthy of interrogation. I am saying that there is only so much you can sanitise it and most fans don't wish it to be sanitised in the first place. Steam shouldn't be selling many of these - they should be sold on publisher's storefronts elsewhere, not a closed platform with confusing content policies.
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

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Oct 25, 2017
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Please don't describe children with a word that is synonymous with pedophilia.
 
Soap

Soap

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I don't see why they have an obligation to provide an explanation or warning for a game like this. It's pretty obvious why a company like valve would not want to be associated with this stuff (potential legal issues and abysmal PR).

Edit: Although, to remain critical of valve,if they actually had decent curation this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
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