Using a DAC is a complete game changer!

[hlhbk]

First some historical info on how I got to this post. I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile but excellent sound in games is a requirement for me. Having built pcs for years i always had a dedicated sound card and a 5.1 speaker setup. I however never could get a surround sound system in the living room with the consoles.

My wife and I recently had our first child and I no longer can make a ton of noise using speakers. Due to this I had picked up a pair of MSI gh50 headphones based on reviews. This headset only has a USB connection so I couldn't plug it into my sound card.

On pc it sounded ok, but couldn't touch the sound I had out of my speakers. It wouldn't work with my Xbox one x, and on ps4 everything was super quiet even with everything maxed.

I opened a thread here asking how to fix this and someone suggested looking at amps. I did a lot of research and decided to purchase the SoundblasterX G6 DAC/amp. I realized doing my research the msi headphones wouldn't work so I also picked up a razer Blackhawk v2 headset.

I received both yesterday. On pc I chose to not use the sound card that came with the Blackhawk and use the SoundblasterX. The improvement on pc was great. The simulated surround sound was very noticeable. It was like pulling out my old 5.1 speakers again.

The real game changer was on console however. Having always used tv audio/soundbar/headphones plugged in via USB or the headphone jack on the ds4 the improvement to the audio quality/clarity and just overall experience was mind blowing using the DAC.

I know audio isn't as focused on as graphics by gamers. That being said I can't emphasize enough how much of a game changing experience proper audio is in games. I highly recommend this setup!!

 

[MissCauthon]

I asked days ago if that Dax would work on a ps5. I own a pair of audio technica headphones but I refuse to plug those into the controller.
DAC I'm referring to is soundblasterx g6

 

[Duxxy3]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

 

[Huntersknoll]

I asked days ago if that Dax would work on a ps5. I own a pair of audio technica headphones but I refuse to plug those into the controller.
DAC I'm referring to is soundblasterx g6

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If it works on PS4 it should on PS5. However we will not know until the PS5 is released and someone tests it out.

But yeah.. getting into better audio is underrated. The key is once you get into "hi-fi" is to find something you love and stick with it. For me its my DT-1990 Pros.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

Never quite understood the difference between one of those enthusiast DACs and simply plugging a pair of headphones directly into the AVR. Is it the same or not?

 

[nitewulf]

It's mostly the amp, a well built amp is needed to drive anything well, be they speakers or headphones. Otherwise you lose dynamics. The dac portion is very important but typically all dac chips used by manufacturers are very capable whether on your soundcard or an external unit.

It's just that, theorists and audiophiles will tell you external is better due to better noise suppression (lot of high frequency noise inside a computer) and jitter reduction (timing errors via USB) methodology.

But certainly an external dac/amp combo is much better for media needs. It can act as your integration solution for music from pc, audio from TV etc and then amplify based on whatever the device capability is, for speakers or headphones.

I am a audiophile BTW. I am always surprised when gamers spend thousands of dollars on games yet have low quality PC speakers or sound bars. Audio is just not that prioritized.

 

[hlhbk]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

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The razer headphones are excellent. Not just my opinion reviews confirm this as well.

 

[LiK]

DAC plus good headphones really makes a difference.

 

[hlhbk]

DAC plus good headphones really makes a difference.

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I booted up God Of War on ps4 and I heard so many sounds i never heard on my play through. It really is astonishing.

 

[GrrImAFridge]

Yeah, when I bought a pair of HD 6XXs earlier in the year, I didn't realise my Sound Blaster Z wouldn't be able to drive them properly, which later prompted a trip down into the audiophile rabbit hole. The commentary in the stream I was in the middle of watching when I switched suddenly sounded rather muffled, like the commentators' voices were being filtered through a wall of water or something. Googling the issue didn't help much, either, as there was no real consensus: some said that's just how they sound, a bunch of people asserted they sound better once they're "broken in", and others recommended getting an amp and/or DAC.

At first, I figured I'd just see how things go, but in the end -- and after researching for hours to put together a shortlist, as I knew there were going to be stock issues -- I bit the bullet on an Aune X1s Pro and set up Equaliser APO, and the improvement was perceptible immediately. My previous pair of headphones (HD 380s, IIRC) now sound rather rough in comparison.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

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[Irikan]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

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truly both a blessing and a curse

 

[RedHeat]

Are DAC's worth it if you have low-quality speakers/headphones?

 

[dralla]

Yea, the audio quality out of the controllers on the PS4/Xbox is poor to say the least. DAC/AMP is a must if you're using headphones for your consoles. I've been using a FiiO E17 forever, I've been thinking about upgrading it for a while, same with my headphones (Fidelio X1), but everything still sounds great even after all these years.

 

[mephixto]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

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X 3
I used to buy gaming headphones many years ago. I was young and naive.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

The razer headphones are excellent. Not just my opinion reviews confirm this as well.

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A. Use what you enjoy. What you have is probably fine.

B. Audiophile headphones are rated very differently than gamer headsets. It's a different class of product that wouldn't be compared in a review like that.

A DAC is a huge game changer for sure. I'm using one with my PS4 and will be using it on PS5 as well. My setup has Hdmi into the TV, and PCM audio via optical to the DAC.

 

[Akelisrain]

This sounds good. Anyone willing to do a write up for low tier mid tier? I would be interested as I purchased a surround sound in my basement,but I don't get many chances to use it. I have Sennheiser 598 but they sound like poo when I plug it into the receiver or ps4pad. I know they are not high end, but I would like to make a step in the right direction.

 

[Duxxy3]

This sounds good. Anyone willing to do a write up for low tier mid tier? I would be interested as I purchased a surround sound in my basement,but I don't get many chances to use it. I have Sennheiser 598 but they sound like poo when I plug it into the receiver or ps4pad. I know they are not high end, but I would like to make a step in the right direction.

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The DAC/AMP mentioned by the OP would be a solid fit for you. I've gone through plenty of high end headphones in my time, and the HD598 are still great for gaming.

 

[James Whiteneck]

I've always been a plug the headphones into the controller type of person, nothing crazy high end though. I typically use a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50x's or Philips SHP-9500. I'm considering upgrading to Audeze Penrose's but will wait for reviews to come out. How does a DAC/AMP fit into the equation with a wireless headset like that?

 

[Twenty Three]

I always used my Peachtree Nova amp (which has a great DAC) powering a couple of B&W speakers. Sounded great, although really imbalanced for voice.

Recently, I got a pair of logitech wireless headphones. Nothing audiophile, but thedifference was astonishing. I got more clarity and variety of sound I hadnt heard before on a cheap headset, rather than overpriced speakers...

I might try running my AT monitoring headphones through the amp and see if that makes a difference too.

 

[Ravio-li]

Have the same DAC. Its great, but sadly it only works in stereo via USB on PS4.

Also a tip: you can improve cheap (and expensive) headphones ALOT by using EqualizerAPO and AutoEQ, if you are lucky and your headphone got measured. The result should always be objectively better + nothing stops you from making subjective changes ontop of that.

 

[FinKL]

To the people using DACs on console, do you run the DAC from your TV and have your headphones wire a long ass cable from the TV to the couch?

 

[Jamaro]

Wait, this is a thing? I didn't know consoles took USB DACs. Might have to try my FiiO e10k with the PS4. I've never wanted to bother trying my HD58Xs through the controller but would love if they worked through the DAC.

To the people using DACs on console, do you run the DAC from your TV and have your headphones wire a long ass cable from the TV to the couch?

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So I have a ten foot extension cable running from my DAC out of my PC, even though I sit two feet from it, just for flexibility with being able to move around the room a bit without taking the headphones off. This is exactly what I'll be using so I can still sit my usual distance from my TV.

Edit: Yeah the FiiO e10k is unusable with the PS4, it's way too quiet. The HD58X isn't hard to power, and I can blast these on PC without going half way up the volume dial, but I have it maxed out with the PS4 and it's still a little low. Oh well.

Just tried the ATH M50 and as expected they are also a little low with volume on the FiiO maxed. Oh well, was worth a try.

 

[dralla]

To the people using DACs on console, do you run the DAC from your TV and have your headphones wire a long ass cable from the TV to the couch?

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PS4->DAC (through USB)->Headphones (though long ass 3.5 audio cable)

 

[Terbinator]

Just wait until you get some good headphones.

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Brutal but true.

 

[Akelisrain]

The DAC/AMP mentioned by the OP would be a solid fit for you. I've gone through plenty of high end headphones in my time, and the HD598 are still great for gaming.

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Alright, will check it out.

 

[FinKL]

I'm spoiled by no cords, but I did listen to one of the Creative's DACs at CES one year and was absolutely blown away. Sounds like I'm going to have to give it a try this year as a Christmas present for myself

 

[RowdyReverb]

I wish I could try all this stuff out to see if I notice a difference before I start spending money

 

[Duxxy3]

Brutal but true.

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I actually wasn't trying to be brutal, but I can see that I might have come off like that.

 

[Lockjaw333]

The razer headphones are excellent. Not just my opinion reviews confirm this as well.

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They may be good for a gaming headset, but they're right.

Get something like a Sennheiser HD 560s or HD 58x/6xx from DROP and you'll truly experience what the G6 is capable of. The G6 is a very capable dac/amp.

 

[inspectah]

Brutal but true.

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It´s audio 1x1 really.

Speakers/headphones and source material have the biggest impact on audio quality, the rest of the chain is just the icing.

 

[Fox1304]

Aren't the USB DAC not compatible with Xbox ? I have a planar headset and a Fiio USB DAC, and it doesn't work on Xbox. Should try this on the PS4, but I love the ease of the Gold Headset.

 

[inspectah]

Aren't the USB DAC not compatible with Xbox ? I have a planar headset and a Fiio USB DAC, and it doesn't work on Xbox. Should try this on the PS4, but I love the ease of the Gold Headset.

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I've been using a Schiit Fulla 2 with PS4 and Switch and it works great.
I hope they add USB-Audio to XSX with a software update.

 

[Akelisrain]

Can I turn off the Virtual 5.1/7.1 w/ that DAC?

 

[Midnight_Chomper]

So wait, right now I use Playstation Gold headphones for PS4 gaming and it sounds pretty great to me. Is using a DAC with wired headphones going to be better? More detail, or bigger soundstage?

 

[Mifec]

What's the current best amp/dac combo? Apparently modi magni ain't the go to anymore?

 

[OmegaDL50]

Yeah the world of an audiophile is deep as an ocean. Once you stick your toe in you can easily fall into the trap of gear acquisition syndrome.

I have a Schiit Magni 3+ Amp with a Modi 3 DAC, commonly referred to as the Schiit Stack, this is paired by a set of Edifier R1280T speakers. The speakers internal DAC is ignored in the setup, everything goes through the Magni 3+. Also for quiet gaming I use a set of HiFiMan H400i's.

Music is amazing, I get all of the detail of the mids and highs, also lows have a good rumbly effect with solid Bass. It fills the room and sounds crisp and detailed. Even gaming with the headphones I get all of the little details.

As for a gamer headset I recommend SteelSeries Arctis 9 or a Sennheiser GSP 370's. I myself just pair a Modmic on my HiFiMan's which more than suffices since the level of audiophile headphones paired with a decent mic just elevates things for me that much further.

What's the current best amp/dac combo? Apparently modi magni ain't the go to anymore?

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Magni 3+ or the Magni Heresy and combined Modi 3 is still relevant even today.

 

[JonnyTorso]

Honestly the only thing a dac has ever really done for me is eliminate hissing ( at least on my old pc that had grounding issues apparently). A proper amplifier though, that has made a world of difference.

I would also encourage others to look at more open back headphones for gaming use. They're noiser than closed, but they really help with the perception of distance.

 

[bboris77]

Schiit Modi 3/ Magni 3+ or JDS Labs Atom DAC/Amp. Both combos cost $199. The advantage of the Atom DAC is that it can be downgraded via firmware to UAC1 if the PS5 does not end up supporting the UAC2 protocol.

 

[Caspar]

I'll echo what others have said, investing in a pair of headphones made by an audio company rather than a gaming peripheral company will net you a big upgrade, and your DAC will really be able to stretch it's legs with them.

But the important thing is you've ditched plugging straight into the DualShock 4 headphone port. The compression of that thing is notorious, it'll make a $500 pair of open backs sound like $10 earbuds.

 

[Deleted member 4212]

I'm afraid to learn about audio equipment. It seems like I'd just be adding a headache to my life.

My current audio setup is way more complicated than I want it to be already.

I have audio coming out of my PC directly into my speakers. Then I have my consoles going into an hdmi switch that goes into my monitor, which has a headphone jack, which goes out to my speakers as well. That way I can get sound from my consoles and my pc from the same speakers without switching anything.

This whole setup only works because my speakers accept two inputs at the same time.

Adding a DAC and an amp and I guess a receiver (?) somewhere in there just sounds like an expensive headache. I would like to have better sound though.

 

[Kuro]

Never quite understood the difference between one of those enthusiast DACs and simply plugging a pair of headphones directly into the AVR. Is it the same or not?

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An AVR has a built in DAC as well. The best kind of DAC does what its meant to by converting digital audio into analog for headphones without coloring the audio and keeping interference to a minimum. Some AVRs do this better than others so if you're stuck with one that produces hiss or distortion/artifacts then buying a separate one is a good idea although most mid to high end AVR's don't have this problem.

Now when it comes to the AMP portion of things, it depends on how much power the AVR produces out of its 3.5mm jack and if its too much or too little for the headphones you plan to use and all sorts of other things like how much the AMP affects the sound and if it is to your taste.

 

[Loud Wrong]

Even doing something as simple as running a 3.5 cable from the Dualsense/Dualshock into a cheap amp improves the experience a ton.

 

[RedOnePunch]

I tried connecting some dacs to the switch and none of them worked. I have the following and couldn't get any to work

Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Schiit Bifrost 2
schiit Modius
Massdrop SDAC
Hegel H120 (integrated amplifier with dac)


am I doing something wrong here? I just connected the USB from the switch to the dacs

 

[Duxxy3]

I tried connecting some dacs to the switch and none of them worked. I have the following and couldn't get any to work

Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Schiit Bifrost 2
Massdrop SDAC
Hegel H120 (integrated amplifier with dac)


am I doing something wrong here? I just connected the USB from the switch to the dacs

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Might want to use an audio extractor to get it to an optical output.

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Extractor-Converter-JTDAT5CH/dp/B00BIQER0E

 

[Betelgeuse]

Ha, I just switched to using a DAC/amp on console too! Probably motivated by the same thread.

While it's immediately improved my experience on PS4, I'm suddenly very disappointed Xbox doesn't support USB DACs. Strange situation when it's Sony that supports such devices but not Microsoft, the one company between the two that's been writing operating systems and drivers for decades.

 

[hlhbk]

For those asking how to connect the DAC to console I connect the optical cable to the back of the console directly to the DAC and plug the mini USB into a wall charger per recommendations in the reviews.

Switch you have to connect using USB in docked mode.

 

[Pargon]

Never quite understood the difference between one of those enthusiast DACs and simply plugging a pair of headphones directly into the AVR. Is it the same or not?

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AVRs typically have high impedance headphone outputs - which results in distortion, and worse performance at lower frequencies.
A proper headphone amplifier will have a very low impedance output - ideally less than 1/8th the headphone impedance.
A headphone amplifier should typically have options to switch between low/med/high gain levels to match low/med/high impedance headphones, giving you a more appropriate range on the volume control, and less noise.

A DAC generally doesn't do much except eliminate noise from the signal, if that's a problem.

• If the amplifier without a source connected is quiet, and you get noise/interference when the you connect the source, you might benefit from a DAC. If it's a constant low-frequency (50/60Hz) buzz that's a ground loop, and unrelated.
• If it's still quiet when you connect the source, probably not.
• If it's noisy even without a source connected, it's the amplifier.

When people say that a "DAC" made a big difference to their setup, it's usually a combined DAC/Amp, and the amp is what's doing most of that work.
If the AVR has stereo pre-outs, you are likely better-off connecting an amplifier to that.

I've always been a plug the headphones into the controller type of person, nothing crazy high end though. I typically use a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50x's or Philips SHP-9500. I'm considering upgrading to Audeze Penrose's but will wait for reviews to come out. How does a DAC/AMP fit into the equation with a wireless headset like that?

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A digital wireless headphone has its own DAC/Amp built in.

I tried connecting some dacs to the switch and none of them worked. I have the following and couldn't get any to work

Schiit Gungnir Multibit​

Schiit Bifrost 2​

Massdrop SDAC​

Hegel H120 (integrated amplifier with dac)​

am I doing something wrong here? I just connected the USB from the switch to the dacs

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The Switch only seems to work with specific USB audio devices.
I've tried my main DAC and the Switch doesn't work in either UAC1 or UAC2 mode. Doesn't work with the Apple USB-C headphone adapter either.
But to my surprise it did work with a Behringer UMC22 audio interface (which I do not recommend) and a "last-resort" plugable USB audio adapter (one of those $5 things).
I only picked up that Behringer interface because it was the cheapest available with 48V phantom power that I could get at a moment's notice, but it actually would have been quite useful to know that it works with the Switch a while back when I was trying to get analog audio out of it to a pair of powered monitor speakers.

 

[hlhbk]

To those saying to drop the gaming headphones what are the cost of the high end headphones you recommend?

 

[RedOnePunch]

Might want to use an audio extractor to get it to an optical output.

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Extractor-Converter-JTDAT5CH/dp/B00BIQER0E

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thanks, yeah I think that might be the only option.

The Switch only seems to work with specific USB audio devices.
I've tried my main DAC and the Switch doesn't work in either UAC1 or UAC2 mode. Doesn't work with the Apple USB-C headphone adapter either.
But to my surprise it did work with a Behringer UMC22 audio interface (which I do not recommend) and a "last-resort" plugable USB audio adapter (one of those $5 things).
I only picked up that Behringer interface because it was the cheapest available with 48V phantom power that I could get at a moment's notice, but it actually would have been quite useful to know that it works with the Switch a while back when I was trying to get analog audio out of it to a pair of powered monitor speakers.

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yesh apparently it's not as compatible as I was hoping. I also have a schiit Modius and that isn't working either.