KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
It isn't always about influencing politicians. Getting the message out to the masses can be equally effective. The UK is already pretty competent when it comes to cutting emissions (well in comparison) but still people are out there locking themselves to cars and doing something because we are on course to even miss our own projections here.

But do you recognize the US and UK are not the same? Government structure, physical size, population are all different. There are large protests multiple times per year in large cities all over the US. They could draw multiple times the protesters in the UK and not even be a blip on most news channels. It's just not the same.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
weren't you the guy that said nothing was gonna happen to trump and we should all lie down and wait to die

I said that you can't rely on your justice system or an election to remove Trump. Because the justice system is infiltrated by Trumps henchmen and the election will be subject to Russian interference again.
The take away wasn't to "lie down and wait to die" but to take to the streets and rise up.
 

Lo-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,436
Philadelphia
It seems Trump touched a nerve here; I feel American policymakers and think tanks are sometimes really sympathetic to the concerns of Kurdish groups and maybe are sensitive to the way regional minority allies have been treated by the U.S. in the past? Donald is also putting a lot of politicians in a tough rhetorical spot, considering how much derision Erdogan has earned for his heel turn since coming onto to the scene. Some of the hawkish reflex in the Republican Party seems to have survived.
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
But do you recognize the US and UK are not the same? Government structure, physical size, population are all different. There are large protests multiple times per year in large cities all over the US. They could draw multiple times the protesters in the UK and not even be a blip on most news channels. It's just not the same.

Heh yeah I get that, and I wasn't one of those complaining about people not protesting. There have been plenty out there in the USA, with young people in particular representing. I understand the radical difference in geography too - I did a 9 hour drive a couple of weeks back from Montana to Colorado - a drive that took me across what, two states? That would nigh on get me from one end of my country to the other.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Direct action gets results is very true but I will remind you all that

- this says nothing on the form the action takes, which includes things that are fairly 'benign' like mass phone calls and voter registration to civil disobedience
- the word direct is doing lots of work here; not all possible action is direct action

There's a reason that the bulk of organizing work in this country is stuff like research and community outreach, because without that it's difficult, if not impossible, to actually do direct action
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Donald Trump got "rolled" by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a National Security Council source with direct knowledge of the discussions told Newsweek.

In a scheduled phone call on Sunday afternoon between President Trump and President Erdogan, Trump said he would withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. The phone call was scheduled after Turkey announced it was planning to invade Syria, and hours after Erdogan reinforced his army units at the Syrian-Turkish border and issued his strongest threat to launch a military incursion, according to the National Security Council official to whom Newsweek spoke on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. withdrawal plays into the hands of the Islamic State group, Damascus and Moscow, and the announcement left Trump's own Defense Department "completely stunned," said Pentagon officials. Turkey, like the United States, wants regime change in Syria. Russia and Iran support the Assad regime.

"President Trump was definitely out-negotiated and only endorsed the troop withdraw to make it look like we are getting something—but we are not getting something," the National Security Council source told Newsweek. "The U.S. national security has entered a state of increased danger for decades to come because the president has no spine and that's the bottom line."

Newsweek granted the National Security Council official anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. The source said it would not be surprising to see a Turkish incursion in the next 24 to 96 hours.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,542
How long before Trump caves and throws someone else under the bus?

"Hey, wasn't my idea!"
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal


If you read about Rojava it becomes obvious why an authoritarian Islamist like Erdogan has publicly stated that he preferred having ISIS as a neighbor, and why Republicans might want them crushed now that they're done using them as cannon fodder to defeat ISIS...


The supporters of the region argue that it is an officially secular polity with direct democratic ambitions based on a libertarian socialist ideology promoting decentralization, gender equality, environmental sustainability and pluralistic tolerance for religious, cultural and political diversity, and that these values are mirrored in its constitution, society, and politics, claiming it to be a model for a federalized Syria as a whole, rather than outright independence.


Saw this coming...

 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
I wonder how the Republicans are going to deal with the inevitable accusations of Deep State/Betrayal from the Average On-The-Street Trump supporter. Those guys are probably cheering this move, and going against Trump on this is going to cost them votes.
 

ChaosXVI

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,907
Glad to see the Republicans stand up to Trump about something, instead of just caving and further disgracing themselves over and over.

I have to imagine this gets reversed super quickly, whether it's by Trump back-pedaling, or Congressional action overriding Trump.
 

pirata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,419
Do we know how the Trump-worshippers are justifying this to themselves? I saw the "Kurds are anitfa" tweet above. Is that pretty much it?
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,542
Glad to see the Republicans stand up to Trump about something, instead of just caving and fitter disgracing themselves over and over.

I have to imagine this gets reversed super quickly, whether it's by Trump back-pedaling, or Congressional action overriding Trump.
My feels.

Like I said...Trump doesn't own mistakes. So someone will be taking the blame.

OBAMA
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
Mitch does hold all the power as far as impeachment goes.

Trump must be so conflicted.

I wonder how the Republicans would react if, in the same way they've all been ignoring subpoenas, if the Senate blocks this move, Trump just ignores that and pushes his Commander In Chief status to just force the military to withdraw. He's been getting results so far by just ignoring things and pushing ahead, so I don't see why it wouldn't occur to him to do it in this case. What's the Senate going to do, impeach him? He knows they won't, so now they're just as vulnerable to his "ignore and proceed" strategy as the Democrats.
 

MikeyLikesIt

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
108
Do we know how the Trump-worshippers are justifying this to themselves? I saw the "Kurds are anitfa" tweet above. Is that pretty much it?

I'd be surprised if even half of Trump supporters understand anything about foreign politics. For them this is just brown people killing brown people and that's okay with them.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,690
Do we know how the Trump-worshippers are justifying this to themselves? I saw the "Kurds are anitfa" tweet above. Is that pretty much it?
This is the easiest for them to ignore or care about. It's one brown religious faction taking on another brown religious faction to them and for them it's good that US is bailing out on it. You can't expect troglodytes to understand geopolitical ramifications.. I mean neither does Trump.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
This is the easiest for them to ignore or care about. It's one brown religious faction taking on another brown religious faction to them and for them it's good that US is bailing out on it. You can't expect troglodytes to understand geopolitical ramifications.. I mean neither does Trump.

Speaking of Troglodytes, has that Mitchell, "Strategists are in awe of Trump the master" guy weighed in on this yet?
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
I mean overturning this would be a good thing, but according to the on the ground reports from groups like 'Raqqa is being slaughtered silently' US troops are already falling back. What good would overturning this months down the line do, or could it be flipped almost straight away.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Speaking of Troglodytes, has that Mitchell, "Strategists are in awe of Trump the master" guy weighed in on this yet?
Oh, is that Bill Mitchell (not to be confused with the hot sauce mogul)?

My guess on Turkey and Syria is that Trump is shooting for the moon to show that he is serious about bringing troops home as promised. He will then listen to voices within his party and moderate his stance. Seen this 1000 times.
33 mins ago
"Shooting for the moon/moderating his stance" is a real dumb say of saying "Making a horrible decision for stupid reasons/doing a complete 180 when rightfully called out on it." Which... I guess is the best we can hope for here - that in the interest of self-preservation, he bails on his total withdrawal/let Turkey start killing Kurds plan.
 
Last edited:

Lorcain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
509
What a f'ng disaster. Sounds like he rolled over and then some for Turkey...even surprising them. Congress needs to act quick before the Kurdish forces get slaughtered.
 

MikeyLikesIt

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
108
I mean overturning this would be a good thing, but according to the on the ground reports from groups like 'Raqqa is being slaughtered silently' US troops are already falling back. What good would overturning this months down the line do, or could it be flipped almost straight away.

This makes me think that Republicans know this and they're just pretending they give a shit to absolve themselves later down the line.