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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,839
Earth
The US faces an uphill task presenting itself as the chief guardian of global democracy, according to a new poll that shows the US is seen around the world as more of a threat to democracy than even Russia and China.

The poll finds support for democracy remains high even though citizens in democratic countries rate their governments' handling of the Covid crisis less well than people in less democratic countries.

The findings come in a poll commissioned by the Alliance of Democracies Foundation among 50,000 respondents in 53 countries.
In perhaps the most startling finding, nearly half (44%) of respondents in the 53 countries surveyed are concerned that the US threatens democracy in their country; fear of Chinese influence is by contrast 38%, and fear of Russian influence is lowest at 28%. The findings may in part reflect views on US comparative power, but they show neither the US, nor the G7, can simply assume the mantle of defenders of democracy.
The single biggest cited threat to democracy is economic inequality (64%).

In almost every country surveyed save Saudi Arabia and Egypt limits to free speech are seen as less of a threat to democracy than inequality.

But half the people surveyed (48%) say the power of big tech companies, as opposed to the simple existence of social media, is a threat to democracy in their country. Among democracies, the US is the most concerned about big tech (62%), but wariness is growing in many countries compared with last year, reflected in broad support for greater regulation of social media.

www.theguardian.com

US seen as bigger threat to democracy than Russia or China, global poll finds

Belief in importance of democracy high in 53 sampled countries but inequality and big tech companies seen as biggest threats

The big negative view for the US seems to be from the action and word of the previous president Trump.
So with the new president, will be interesting to see how the new poll will be in a year or later.
 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
mURl2mb.png

 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
Does it though? If that were critical Russia would have been viewed more negatively than it is:


I wouldn't count on it. The USA has been generally unpopular for a long time.
Not really:
www.pewresearch.org

U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly

In several countries, favorable views of the U.S. are at their lowest point since the Center began polling on this topic two decades ago.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,582
Racoon City
Well I mean historically only one of these countries talks about freedom and democracy but in the same breath will topple a democracy if that country doesn't bend to the US' will so I get the fear.

That and more directly related, the country doesn't really seem to value it's own democracy all that much in practice.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,364
Does it though? If that were critical Russia would have been viewed more negatively than it is:



Not really:
www.pewresearch.org

U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly

In several countries, favorable views of the U.S. are at their lowest point since the Center began polling on this topic two decades ago.

Modern Russia doesn't have anywhere near the global power reach of US (or even China). Soviet union was legit super power. Russia is not.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Sounds like Russia's just moving down the list in people's minds, probably not enough nuclear threats recently.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
The big negative view for the US seems to be from the action and word of the previous president Trump.
So with the new president, will be interesting to see how the new poll will be in a year or later.
the rest of the world has always seen the US as a joke since bush.. Obama was seen as a cool president but with very questionable politics, and trump was just the nail on the coffin in absolute absurdity. Joe Biden looks like just another old white man. a movie depiction of what a president looks like that could be replaced by a cardboard cutout and there would be no difference.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
Does it though? If that were critical Russia would have been viewed more negatively than it
I fail to see how. I live in a country that never healed from the wounds caused by a military coup and dictatorship backed by the CIA, a dictatorship that our current genocidal maggot of a president celebrates whenever he has a chance, so maybe I'm a bit biased. Anyway, I grew up in a flood of media that taught me Russia was the enemy and America was not only the best country in the world, but a land of heroes, a bastion of Democracy that would only go to war in order to free other countries from the Russian baddies or the eventual Nazi, but History keeps teaching me that's not really how things are, and one needs only to take a quick look at Latin America to see how the US never stopped sabotaging our countries down here.

That's not to say Russia is any good, but its influence seems negligible compared to that of the USA.
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
Does it though? If that were critical Russia would have been viewed more negatively than it is:


i don't know what links you're reading, but comparing the usa and russia ones it's actually surprising they're as close as they are when it comes to negativity (44% for the usa vs. 28% for russia). i mean, russia only has four entries in their regime change involvement and two of them are the same country.

russia is not playing in the same league anymore.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
It's still high on the list of neighbouring countries, same is true for China.
Of course, harder to miss Russia's activity when its happening on your doorstep. Probably less of a concern when your further away and facing unemployment and poverty.
Unless you're a direct neighbor russia isn't even playing in the same league as the US (and increasingly china) anymore.
Yup, that's a good conclusion. The regression to a regional power continues.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,385
Does it though? If that were critical Russia would have been viewed more negatively than it is:



Not really:
www.pewresearch.org

U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly

In several countries, favorable views of the U.S. are at their lowest point since the Center began polling on this topic two decades ago.

Russia is good at playing the media in the west because russian foreign policy in the last decade has been a disaster.

- They got their asses handed to them and their PMC buddies in libya
- They interfered in Ukraine which has resulted in Ukraine probably joining the EU and maybe NATO
- They annexed crimea and occupy eastern Ukraine which has been a economic disaster locally and for the russian state
- They barely keep their muppet assad in power in syria by turning it into a failed state
- They got caught with several intelligence operations in europe and not only were several GRU agents demasked they also got sanctioned

The only successful russian operation i can think of is hiring a bunch of trolls to mislead americans.
 

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
I live in Europe and our democracy has been threatened by the US, not Russia or China. When the CIA declassified documents admitting they sided with Italian fascist groups in the 70s and 80s to cause terror attacks and blame our communist party in order to discredit it towards the elections, it was infuriating to see no English speaking media giving it any coverage (it was declassified about 15 years ago). We'd just gotten out of a fascist dictatorship that the US was very friendly with, but a communist party participating in democracy? That's too fucking much for you.

In addition to all of the war propaganda in their media, and how their companies constantly try to fuck things up here (Walmart and Costco recently trying to overturn our labor laws is a great example). There's also the consequences of fucking Aznar siding with Bush for the Irak war and the 11M attacks and all the destabilizing in the middle East and fucking up South American countries in the last century.

Google and Facebook creating extremism worldwide with their algorithms (look up documentary The Social Dilemma).

Americans who think this is just Trump have absolutely no clue how their country is seen internationally. You are indeed a massive threat for democracy and, in my country, most people who aren't far right wing see it that way, and have since Trump was just a tv clown.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,720
I live in Europe and our democracy has been threatened by the US, not Russia or China. (...)
Russia is one of the main drivers of fake news and disinformation on Social Media which is directly linked to the rise of right wing populism during the refugee crisis and we have to bother with these populist fuckers to this date.
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,569
Currently China and Russia is definitely a lot worse, but in other hand China has been giving a lot of financial help for developing countries (of course with the condition of supporting them in any international decision), so unless EU or US makes similar moves, China's influence will only rightfully grow bigger.
 

ChrisBliss117

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,842
Anti-Chinese propaganda is so strong in the US that people forget about the 2016 Russian interference and Solarwinds.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
Decades of shit the US has done world wide means my trust level for the US regime is low. It's a big place with a big state apparatus it does do go throughout the world, but there is a dark underbelly of corruption and ideology that means its has probably caused more damage and geopolitical instability than the good it has done.

It talks the talk but it really needs to clean house; sort out its election system, deal with its own extremists and religious fundamentalists in its own government and the outrageous corrution that is endemic throughout.
 

hiredhand

Member
Feb 6, 2019
3,156
Makes sense since the US has way more cultural influence in general globally. The news people read and the social media they use (inluding this site) are incredibly anglocentric.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,720
Remind me again who runs all these social media sites?
Does it change the fact that Russia is the main driver of the content / wrote the handbook on the misuse of social media?

Facebook and Zuckerberg can fuck off because they're unable (or unwilling) to get a grip on this problem, but Russia actively helped to make conspiracies and fake news into a mainstream thing, didn't help much during the COVID-crisis either.
 

Midee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,478
CA, USA
Does it change the fact that Russia is the main driver of the content / wrote the handbook on the misuse of social media?

Facebook and Zuckerberg can fuck off because they're unable (or unwilling) to get a grip on this problem, but Russia actively made conspiracies and fake news into a mainstream thing, didn't help much during the COVID-crisis either.
The USA is still the one distributing this information, profiting off of it, and not taking the responsibility of regulating it. You understand what I'm saying? The disinformation is ultimately coming from the US, whether we like it or not.

Like we can howl in the streets about Russian conspiracies all we want, but in the grand scheme of things they're just a (very) bad kid exploiting a system we created and let run amok.
 
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KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,364
I live in Europe and our democracy has been threatened by the US, not Russia or China. When the CIA declassified documents admitting they sided with Italian fascist groups in the 70s and 80s to cause terror attacks and blame our communist party in order to discredit it towards the elections, it was infuriating to see no English speaking media giving it any coverage (it was declassified about 15 years ago). We'd just gotten out of a fascist dictatorship that the US was very friendly with, but a communist party participating in democracy? That's too fucking much for you.

In addition to all of the war propaganda in their media, and how their companies constantly try to fuck things up here (Walmart and Costco recently trying to overturn our labor laws is a great example). There's also the consequences of fucking Aznar siding with Bush for the Irak war and the 11M attacks and all the destabilizing in the middle East and fucking up South American countries in the last century.

Google and Facebook creating extremism worldwide with their algorithms (look up documentary The Social Dilemma).

Americans who think this is just Trump have absolutely no clue how their country is seen internationally. You are indeed a massive threat for democracy and, in my country, most people who aren't far right wing see it that way, and have since Trump was just a tv clown.

I have no love for foreign policy of US but Soviet Union literally occupied half of Europe and its successor state Russia even currently wages war in Europe (Ukraine). In Europe Russia (Soviets) has always been bigger threat. I say this as a person that lives in country that has over 1300km border with Russia.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,720
The USA is still the one distributing this information, profiting off of it, and not taking the responsibility of regulating it.
It still doesn't change the fact that Russia is the one creating it.

You're basically deflecting all of the responsibility. As I already said: Facebook sucks because of their shitty regulation, doesn't change the fact that Russia is actively exploiting it.


You understand what I'm saying? The disinformation is ultimately coming from the US, whether we like it or not.
That's a bullshit take, the information is ultimately coming from Russia.

Most of the stuff is created via shady websites and blogs (and also larger platforms like Russia Today) and amplified via social media platforms.

People can also find this stuff via Google or DuckDuckGo if they search for it or use any messenger service to share it. Or directly from Russia Today if they use it as an information platform.


Like we can howl in the streets about Russian conspiracies all we want, but in the grand scheme of things they're just a (very) bad kid exploiting a system we created and let run amok.
Are you kidding me? People are dying because of their conspiracy bullshit information campaigns, that's all but "a bad kid exploiting the system".
 
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Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
I fail to see how. I live in a country that never healed from the wounds caused by a military coup and dictatorship backed by the CIA, a dictatorship that our current genocidal maggot of a president celebrates whenever he has a chance, so maybe I'm a bit biased. Anyway, I grew up in a flood of media that taught me Russia was the enemy and America was not only the best country in the world, but a land of heroes, a bastion of Democracy that would only go to war in order to free other countries from the Russian baddies or the eventual Nazi, but History keeps teaching me that's not really how things are, and one needs only to take a quick look at Latin America to see how the US never stopped sabotaging our countries down here.

That's not to say Russia is any good, but its influence seems negligible compared to that of the USA.
I would agree that you are biased. Somebody from Eastern Europe would have experienced Soviet vs US imperialisms completely different from you. Somebody from the Middle East, Africa or Asia would also have a different experience with both super powers.
The fact that the US was so active in South America was due to Cold War and its clash of political ideologies or imperialisms if you will. So while you may have lucked out with Russia millions of people in different countries and regions have not.

My only argument against your "well, duh, look at the US interventions list" was that the Soviet Union and its successor state Russia should've been rated higher on the negative impact chart if no. & extent of interventions were critical for that metric (or even the only thing that mattered, as you implied).

i don't know what links you're reading, but comparing the usa and russia ones it's actually surprising they're as close as they are when it comes to negativity (44% for the usa vs. 28% for russia). i mean, russia only has four entries in their regime change involvement and two of them are the same country.

russia is not playing in the same league anymore.
Russia was not created out of thin air. It is the official successor state of the Soviet Union. Hence when comparing US to Russian interventions or imperialism you should look at such lists for the RU Empire, Soviet Union and Russia. Everything else would be disingenuous from my pov. More so since Russia is literally on the path to continue its imperialist legacy.
 
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Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Remembering how I got piled on because I dared to say that the US is just as shitty as russia if not more.
 

The Bookerman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,124
This isn't surprising, but personally I'm more scared of what Trump represents, a threat of the democracy that exists in the US.
 

GrantDaNasty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,012
Remembering how I got piled on because I dared to say that the US is just as shitty as russia if not more.

It's hard to understand the inherent danger the U.S provides unless you've ever been witness to their dangers either first-hand or via accounts of acquiantances, hence why so many will be like "BUT RUSSIA THOUGH? BUT CHINA THOUGH?" as if the U.S hasn't bombed tens of thousands of people, including civilians, as if the U.S hasn't destroyed large parts of the Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian environment through use of Chemical Warfare in order to root out Communism. As if the US Sanctions aren't actively endangering the lives of Iranians and Cubans because of a 100+ year attempt to be the puppetmaster. As if the U.S isn't the reason most of South America is as destabilised as it is, because of "regime change" tactics, funding rebel groups who are "favourable" the U.S terms of doing business.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Vietnam, Laos, Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, Cuba, Venezuela (to only name a FEW OF THE NATIONS THE U.S HAS THREATENED) - they have every right to believe the U.S is no "savior", having been bombed, sanctioned and sabotaged repeatedly over the years.

I live in Estonia, and while the threat of Russia is absolutely a major one, I am still wary of US Foreign Policy based on what they've done to the above-mentioned countries who didn't willingly agree to the US' vision of "democracy".
 

Midee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,478
CA, USA
It still doesn't change the fact that Russia is the one creating it.

You're basically deflecting all of the responsibility. As I already said: Facebook sucks because of their shitty regulation, doesn't change the fact that Russia is actively exploiting it.



That's a bullshit take, the information is ultimately coming from Russia.

Most of the stuff is created via shady websites and blogs (and also larger platforms like Russia Today) and amplified via social media platforms.



Are you kidding me? People are dying because of their conspiracy bullshit information campaigns, that's all but "a bad kid exploiting the system", what the hell.
You need to bring it down a bit here if you think I'm making excuses for Russia. They should absolutely face consequences for all the harmful shit they've done over the years.

But it seems like you're letting Facebook and other US social media companies off the hook way too much. Things like anti-vaxxers and such all got their start in the US. Also I don't remember Russia creating the horrific systematic racism endemic here. Like you said, Russia is simply exploiting what was already there. And don't forget what I said: The USA is still the one distributing this information, profiting off of it (big part right there), and not taking the responsibility of regulating it. Facebook isn't some entity divorced from the goings on of the US, they're an American company that brings in hella American dollars.

Also keep in mind that the Russian GDP is like 8% of what the US makes. It's less than Italy, Brazil, Canada, and even California. Their military budget is roughly 10% of what the we spend. So yes, they are kind of like a kid on the world stage compared to the US's power, and the only reason they're this grand conspirator of all social media disinformation is we gave them a platform for it and did fuck all about it for years. They're doing it because we let them do it, and we need to suck it up and share the responsibility for it.
 
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Zombegoast

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,243
It was clear when Mitch blocked the investigation on Russia's interference on the election.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,251
China I can understand since they have historically been isolationist and very rarely go beyond their borders or near to it. Russia and the US on the other hand are still fighting the same old proxy wars with each other while everybody else suffers.
 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
And those refugees mostly came from a region that the USA actively destabilised
Sure, but its logical to blame the country causing the refugees to need to leave in the first place, rather than one which stokes up the fash over social media (and i think it is wrong to assume the USA isn't doing this too btw). One is obviously a bigger threat to democracy than the other
Your argument is flawed. The refugee crisis coincided with the Russian intervention in Syria. The fact that there is a genocidal, dictatorial dynasty in Syria is in large part due to Soviet and Russian backing of it.
Russia (and the Soviet Union) have been actively destabilizing the region for decades since Middle East as one of the key battleground in the Cold War proxy wars.

Again, no reason to point the finger at the US while not doing so for Russia.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,720
You need to bring it down a bit here if you think I'm making excuses for Russia. They should absolutely face consequences for what they've done over the years.

But it seems like you're letting Facebook and other US social media companies off the hook way too much.
Absolutely not, Facebook is one of the worst companies on this planet and they can go to hell if you ask me.

But as I already said, it's not just Facebook. You can share these fake news just as easy via iMessage or brainwash your friends or family directly by talking to them.


Things like anti-vaxxers and such all got their start in the US. Also I don't remember Russia creating the horrific systematic racism endemic here. Like you said, Russia is simply exploiting what was already there. And don't forget what I said: The USA is still the one distributing this information, profiting off of it (big part right there), and not taking the responsibility of regulating it. Facebook isn't some entity divorced from the goings on of the US, they're an American company that brings in hella American dollars.
I'm talking about the situation in Europe, the States have their own propaganda machine with FOX News paired with Republican brain washing, Russian interference is just the tip of the iceberg.


Also keep in mind that the Russian GDP is like 8% of what the US makes. Their military budget is roughly 10% of what the we spend. So yes, they are kind of like a kid on the world stage compared to the US's power
Maybe, but they are currently one of the only players actively stealing land around them.


and the only reason they're this grand conspirator of all social media disinformation is we gave them a platform for it and did fuck all about it for years. They're doing it because we let them do it, and we need to suck it up and share the responsibility for it.
Yes, but that's like saying "this guy who shot 5 people is just the product of our fucked up gun culture".

Of course it is, doesn't change the fact that he actively decided to commit this act and needs to face consequences.

You're absolutely right in the regard that Social Media needs massive regulation (just like guns), because Russia (or any player exploiting this problems) won't stop as long as it's effective.


Sure, but its logical to blame the country causing the refugees to need to leave in the first place, rather than one which stokes up the fash over social media (and i think it is wrong to assume the USA isn't doing this too btw). One is obviously a bigger threat to democracy than the other
I can criticize both or just one at a time, which I did. You're basically asking me why I blame one and not the other, this is not mutually exclusive.

My larger problem with Russias disinformation tactics (don't believe anyone but shady echo chambers & conspiracies) makes it useful for any kind of future crisis (see COVID or Climate Change). Anti-vaxx for example was a thing in the past obviously, but it got amplified by the same fake news tactics that we saw during the refugee crisis.

And no, I don't see evidence of the States actively pushing right wing parties in Europe, it goes against all of their interests, they hate the US as well and cozy up to Russian authoritarianism.

There's no denying that the States interference in the Middle East is one of the worst decisions in recent history.