It'll be considered to be pretty good for Bernie not only be viable and lose by single digitsIf Sanders loses SC by single digits that's a really good result for him.
Data for Progress on Twitter
“South Carolina Democratic Primary Topline Results: Biden - 34 Sanders - 25 Steyer - 13 Buttigieg - 13 Warren - 7 Klobuchar - 5 2/23-2/27 - 1416 Likely Voters - Text to Web https://t.co/qRXkc7U82U”twitter.com
Yup. I'm too lazy to do the math -- is it better for him if Steyer crosses the 15% threshold or not? Does Biden net fewer delegates?
I don't have any onus to prove that because she did do what I'm saying, and many Native Americans still feel harmed by what she's done and don't think she's gone far enough with the apology. Maybe you should read the letter I posted from some Native Americans instead of insinuating that I'm lying about the harm caused to them by Elizabeth Warren, and you're being extremely dismissive of the harm that she caused.
But you certainly don't know.
What is lying though? Warren believed that she had a larger degree of native american than she really had yes. But even if her belief had been accurate, do you think she should have been self identifying that way and filling out forms saying that she was of that group when her entire life was spent as a white woman with no tribal associations?
At least it's not going to be Bernie vs Bloomberg, I hope.Well, Biden looks like he got exactly what he needed from that debate + Clyburn endorsement. This things not gonna be resolved for a while.
Bernie vs Biden is much preferable to Bloomberg, yes.
Data for Progress on Twitter
“South Carolina Democratic Primary Topline Results: Biden - 34 Sanders - 25 Steyer - 13 Buttigieg - 13 Warren - 7 Klobuchar - 5 2/23-2/27 - 1416 Likely Voters - Text to Web https://t.co/qRXkc7U82U”twitter.com
Bernie is going to net hundreds of delegates on Super Tuesday while not getting completely shut out in SC. We'll probably have a very clear answer by next Wednesday.Well, Biden looks like he got exactly what he needed from that debate + Clyburn endorsement. This things not gonna be resolved for a while.
Did she say she was Native American for decades? YesI mean, you said she was lying. Do you think she knew that she wasn't Native American and still decided to claim to be?
From what perspective, delegate margin vs Biden? Raw delegate count for Bernie? Different questions yield different results.Yup. I'm too lazy to do the math -- is it better for him if Steyer crosses the 15% threshold or not? Does Biden net fewer delegates?
it's really a tough call. for one, sanders needs every delegate he can to try and either reach 50% or as close as possible. but on the other hand, he needs biden to be as far behind him as possible. that's if -- and it's a big if -- sanders even has a chance if he doesn't get 50% delegates.Yup. I'm too lazy to do the math -- is it better for him if Steyer crosses the 15% threshold or not? Does Biden net fewer delegates?
My stance would be that she wasn't really lying about it so much as misrepresenting. But it still makes her look like someone exploiting her privilege and being incredibly naive about the entire situation. Someone with her intelligence and knowledge should have known better.But that's the difference here -- she did a bad thing she shouldn't have done. I don't disagree with that. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But did she, at the time, believe that she had more Native American ancestry than she had? Most likely yes. Does that make what she did better? No. But does it make it "lying"? Probably not, being lying would imply malicious intent. Lying would be knowing that she actually wasn't Native American and still claiming to be.
Intent does matter if you -- and I mean you, specially because you've used that word -- want to you use the word lying because that word literally implies intent.Did she say she was Native American for decades? Yes
Is she Native American? No
Did she cause harm to Native Americans who still don't feel like she's gone far enough? Yes
You can argue intent and in the end nobody knows other than Warren herself if she thought she was Native American or not, but like I said I refute this idea that nobody has a clue that your DNA doesn't make you Native American, and if you're in a position of importance like a US Senator, you should probably wonder about whether you've been told, and are telling the truth about your heritage. Whether it was her intent to lie or not is irrelevant because it was negligence and she hurt a lot of people because of that negligence.
I am holding out hope for Warren despite the fact that there's probably less than a 1% chance of her being the nominee.
I agree that she misrepresented. I do not think you can use the word "lying" given what we know, which is why I was annoyed to begin with.My stance would be that she wasn't really lying about it so much as misrepresenting. But it still makes her look like someone exploiting her privilege and being incredibly naive about the entire situation. Someone with her intelligence and knowledge should have known better.
Data for Progress on Twitter
“South Carolina Democratic Primary Topline Results: Biden - 34 Sanders - 25 Steyer - 13 Buttigieg - 13 Warren - 7 Klobuchar - 5 2/23-2/27 - 1416 Likely Voters - Text to Web https://t.co/qRXkc7U82U”twitter.com
And if Bernie had won SC, this thing would be over on Saturday.Bernie is going to net hundreds of delegates on Super Tuesday while not getting completely shut out in SC. We'll probably have a very clear answer by next Wednesday.
If Steyer gets to 15% it will cut Biden's delegate lead over Sanders by roughly around 25% (with those poll numbers ) vs if Steyer wasn't viableYup. I'm too lazy to do the math -- is it better for him if Steyer crosses the 15% threshold or not? Does Biden net fewer delegates?
If hurting people unintentionally due to naively repeating something you've heard and have no reason to disbelieve is disqualifying then Bernie is disqualified as well along with everyone in the field.Whether it was her intent to lie or not is irrelevant because it was negligence and she hurt a lot of people because of that negligence.
it's 3-4 days difference lolAnd if Bernie had won SC, this thing would be over on Saturday.
He has no money and no infrastructure set up for Super Tuesday (where multiple states already have early voting). Biden could be the only viable candidate in SC and it probably wouldn't change too muchWell, Biden looks like he got exactly what he needed from that debate + Clyburn endorsement. This things not gonna be resolved for a while.
primary demographics results ≠ GE results with those demographics.That's a good top line result for Bernie all things considered, but that he's trailing Biden by 30 points with black voters has me worried about potential GE implications.
I don't think they Bernie will have an insurmountable lead after super Tuesday, but I guess we'll see.
You can't trust that shady women.No, it's because she's been very misleading with some her attacks on Bernie, just like she was very misleading about being a Native American. Let's not pretend everyone's issues with Warren are because she's a woman, that does a disservice to some of the real criticisms and discussion of those criticisms against her. I don't think you'd find many people here saying that the only reason people don't like Bernie is because he's Jewish.
I am holding out hope for Warren despite the fact that there's probably less than a 1% chance of her being the nominee.
But I'm reluctantly coming to the realization it's gonna be Bernie vs Biden. Probably.
I'd take boring over Bloomberg in a heartbeat, personally speaking.
Did she say she was Native American for decades? Yes
Is she Native American? No
Did she cause harm to Native Americans who still don't feel like she's gone far enough? Yes
You can argue intent and in the end nobody knows other than Warren herself if she thought she was Native American or not, but like I said I refute this idea that nobody has a clue that your DNA doesn't make you Native American, and if you're in a position of importance like a US Senator, you should probably wonder about whether you've been told, and are telling the truth about your heritage. Whether it was her intent to lie or not is irrelevant because it was negligence and she hurt a lot of people because of that negligence.
The problem is you're not actually arguing with anyone's point, you're arguing with the point you want to be arguing with.Native Americans have had genocide committed to them, stripped of their rights, and made irrelevant. A United States Senator shouldn't have been this negligent when it comes to Native American heritage, people who were mass murdered and robbed of the land they naturally inhabited by colonizers, and even today are put on reservations while we completely forget their existence for the large part.
And now we have people on this forum who think it was an innocent mistake that a United States Senator, who identified as a PoC, never seemed to think critically about whether she actually is Native American or not, and think it was an innocent mistake that she released a DNA test trying to prove her status as a Native American, and harmed many Native Americans, over 200 who still feel betrayed.
I don't think it's an innocent mistake, she had decades to clear up the story, and instead of actually talking to Native Americans about it she released a DNA test. This was not some small mistake, this was severe negligence towards a community who historically have been ignored, stepped on, and been treated as sub-human for hundreds of years.
Warren is 70 years old, she's a United States Senator, she had a long time and every opportunity to prevent the harm she caused.
We won't know until Saturday. What he really needs is a win margin of 15 percent or more to really open the money spigots. A single digit win may not net the tens of millions of dollars he's going to need for Super Tuesday and beyond.Well, Biden looks like he got exactly what he needed from that debate + Clyburn endorsement. This things not gonna be resolved for a while.
Yeah, nobody has brought it up other than the over 200 Native Americans who just wrote a letter saying they're still hurt.The whole Warren discussion is dumb. Literally no one except Trump has brought it up in weeks/months.
She did something dumb, apologized, moved on, and then a letter came up again two days ago, of which only a handful of people were talking about it.
If Bernie's doing that well in SC, it should spell good news for ST.
Yeah, nobody has brought it up other than the 200 Native Americans who just wrote a letter saying they're still hurt.
There was a poster here who said it was an innocent mistake.The problem is you're not actually arguing with anyone's point, you're arguing with the point you want to be arguing with.
A common refrain and a transparent shorthand I've come to accept as "A woman, just not that woman".
A ton of Cubans were hurt by Bernie's comments about Castro. Is he disqualified now or do a group of them need to write a letter first?Yeah, nobody has brought it up other than the over 200 Native Americans who just wrote a letter saying they're still hurt.
Lmao the citations and research paper style. Such a professor. Love her.
Yeah it was covered earlier, that shit was fucking wildDid anyone else see the clip on CNN of Trump hosting a Black History Month thing and a guy proudly exclaims that Trump is the first black President and everyone in there starts cheering?
SMH