Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
Is that what she really implied? Racism of the past is current racism in many ways, is it not? It's the same shit that's been happening for years and is not getting better, it's getting worse. It's years and years of everything reaching a breaking point. Isn't she basically just saying we need to get to the root of the problem?So the issue is that the grievances are current. Racism is not a thing of the past.
I'm not interested in giving her the benefit of the doubt here, but I'm also a pragmatist. This won't stop me from voting (D) in every election.
Is that what she really implied? Racism of the past is current racism in many ways, is it not? It's the same shit that's been happening for years and is not getting better, it's getting worse. It's years and years of everything reaching a breaking point. Isn't she basically just saying we need to get to the root of the problem?
We'll see how long that lasts if she starts cutting into his votes.Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
I'm telling you what black voters are likely to hear. You can accept that or not.
But no, I think that she is trying to imply that racism is sort of a thing of the past to appease angry white voters who don't want to hear about racism.
I'm talking about what she actually meant and not what people are hearing. I do think she needs to clarify her statement though.I'm telling you what black voters are likely to hear. You can accept that or not.
But no, I think that she is trying to imply that racism is sort of a thing of the past to appease angry white voters who don't want to hear about racism.
Well said, and I agree with this 100%Yeah, agreed. There is a significant amount of people, even on the left-leaning side that bristle at Black Lives Matter, especially in the southern states. Autodidact's writeup a few days ago of southern voters who vote for left-leaning policies but vote for republicans (because they're fucking racists) was a hell of a thing to take in, but it's not wrong.
I'm also with others on that it's fucking important that we drag any politician, including our Queen for doing this. It's long overdue for the Dem establishment to get with the program and assert that black lives matter without any qualifiers. A message needs to be sent to people who thinks that they have to cater to racists to get good things done, that the party will move leftwards without them if need-be. No more waiting. No more excuses.
Yes. And a cop saved his life, but he never thanked her because she was a lesbian.
It's funny too because they've conducted such a successful campaign against liberals and socialism by basically making it seem crazy and fringe, dangerous even, that keeps people from seriously considering these ideas / concepts. But then they go and make a democratic socialist and her policy super visible and it's now getting covered by mainstream press who aren't necessarily handwaving it all away -- and when they try she clapsback with A+ social media game that only makes her seem more appealing and relatable. Um... backfire. She has millions of Twitter followers now, already. It's been fun to watch. And these last few days a LOT of people learned some stuff about taxes that otherwise would still be in the dark.It's amazing how big Republicans are making AOC. They can't help themselves.
forma's response on the DNA question:
https://www.vox.com/2019/1/5/18169949/elizabeth-warren-iowa-campaign-dna-results
I'm talking about what she actually meant and not what people are hearing. I do think she needs to clarify her statement though.
I started out thinking she was walking a fine line but I really do just think she's simply saying BLM is important to her and getting to the heart of the matter of how African Americans have been mistreated as emphasized in BLM takes priority over a more neutral stance. And I really do think by past grievances she means we have to go all the way back and look at the fundamentals. And we do.
It was just a poorly worded statement. You can't be nuanced when you're talking about that.
How I felt. Personally, I wouldn't give credence to what "black voters" supposedly hear according to one person's opinion. I personally don't feel that way as a black voter and I'm sure other black voters have their personal opinions about it. It would be preferable if folks didn't behave as if we're all going to take it the same way in any case.
I'm not claiming to represent all black people, but you can go on Black Twitter or to black discussion boards and get a sense of how black folks are taking it generally. There's how you feel and then there's how the wider group of black folks generally appears to feel about it. The screenshot of the black woman in the crowd pre- and post-question is also an indicator.
But does this not speak to a larger problem with society in general and how we react to things that may not be entirely clear? i.e. focusing on one phrase or part of the sentence without taking into account the overall context behind the entirety of the statement?I'm not claiming to represent all black people, but you can go on Black Twitter or to black discussion boards and get a sense of how black folks are taking it generally. There's how you feel and then there's how the wider group of black folks generally appears to feel about it. The screenshot of the black woman in the crowd pre- and post-question is also an indicator.
But does this not speak to a larger problem with society in general and how we react to things that may not be entirely clear? i.e. focusing on one phrase or part of the sentence without taking into account the overall context behind the entirety of the statement?
She's a white woman who's statement is being projected as offensive. Nancy has no history or standing within the black community, so I can tell you now that a lot of black people would probably take it badly.I'm sorry, but I don't care what folks on twitter feeds that you follow generally think and I certainly wouldn't use it as the basis of an argument. You continue to do you though.
Edit: Just to be clear, I love resetera, but I wouldn't use the opinions (political or even gaming) here as an example of general sentiment to win an argument. I'm not saying the folks you follow are wrong, just that it's anecdotal at best. There's room to criticize Pelosi without behaving like the black people whisperer.
I'm sorry, but I don't care what folks on twitter feeds that you follow generally think and I certainly wouldn't use it as the basis of an argument. You continue to do you though.
Edit: Just to be clear, I love resetera, but I wouldn't use the opinions (political or even gaming) here as an example of general sentiment to win an argument. I'm not saying the folks you follow are wrong, just that it's anecdotal at best. There's room to criticize Pelosi without behaving like the black people whisperer.
She's a white woman who's statement is being projected as offensive. Nancy has no history or standing within the black community, so I can tell you now that a lot of black people would probably take it badly.
Like 60% of black millennials use social media, so the hand waving away of black twitter is always hilarious and dumb.
Saying "All lives matter" anywhere in your statement is bound to piss off tons of folks
The reports of the Bernie Bot attacks were not understated. What the hell.
All being led by an alt right troll. Shocker.
Say what?
Someone NEEDS to be mentoring and getting AOC ready for a 2028 run like... Yesterday.
I'd say that just because you don't hang out where black folks congregate, that doesn't meant that you get to handwave away what black folks are actually saying! No one is being a "black people whisperer;" if you're talking to your people who are engaged with this, though, you'll probably be hearing the same things that I am.
You can be an outlier among black folks and still have valid feelings, bruh. You don't have to jump in to clarify to non-black folks with "not all black people" when a majority of black folks think something differently than you do.
Wait, what happened? I know there's been plenty of complaints about threads lately, but I haven't paid much attention as to the specifics.The reports of the Bernie Bot attacks were not understated. What the hell.
All being led by an alt right troll. Shocker.
I'm white. It's really not an argument with the black community (a lot of white people share the same opinion on this for example), it's putting emphasis on what Pelosi was really saying. I feel bad that so many people are upset and she really needs to get on the morning shows tomorrow and clarify.No offense, but (assuming that you're not black), this speaks to how someone who is not black sort of contests what a black person or black people say about black issues instead of just listening and accepting that maybe we have a different insight than you because of our own blackness. Which again is not to imply that black people all agree on anything ever, but is to say that if many black folks had a problem with Pelosi's response, maybe arguing with them about "what Pelosi really meant" is a poor choice.
Intersectionality is hard, bruh, and I'm not mad at you, but think about what you're doing here and why maybe it's not a great choice when trying to navigate these issues with your voting partners.
(Or to put it another way, you wouldn't tell American Indians that they're just misunderstanding Elizabeth Warren's DNA test stunt, right? You wouldn't tell women that they're misunderstanding Joe Biden's remarks about Anita Hill, right?)
Say what?
Someone NEEDS to be mentoring and getting AOC ready for a 2028 run like... Yesterday.
Elizabeth Warren's tweets are being spammed by Bernie Bots all with the same message, and it's being led in large part by a GOP operative/professional troll.Wait, what happened? I know there's been plenty of complaints about threads lately, but I haven't paid much attention as to the specifics.
Elizabeth Warren's tweets are being spammed by Bernie Bots all with the same message, and it's being led in large part by a GOP operative/professional troll.
Oh ok. I thought you meant someone on this forum had a botnet they were using to make posts here. I know the site still needs time to filter out the deplorables who haven't exposed themselves yet, but I didn't think we had anything that severe.Elizabeth Warren's tweets are being spammed by Bernie Bots all with the same message, and it's being led in large part by a GOP operative/professional troll.
Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
I'm white. It's really not an argument with the black community (a lot of white people share the same opinion on this for example), it's putting emphasis on what Pelosi was really saying. I feel bad that so many people are upset and she really needs to get on the morning shows tomorrow and clarify.
I don't really have anything to say about Warren's DNA test stunt. I guess it was a little funny but it's just kind of something that she did, there's really no other way to explain it. As for Biden flipping out about Anita Hill/FBI so many years ago, I would have no reason to tell women or anyone that they misunderstood him because there was nothing to misunderstand about his words. It was a disappointing display for sure. So I wouldn't even go there.
But Pelosi's statement is poorly worded and can easily be taken out of context but honestly TL;DR, BLM is important and a priority and she wants to find out the best ways to address it because we've fucked up so many times before.
This is honestly exposing that the Democratic party really doesn't have a unified message on racial justice beyond cameras for cops.
Let's hope it comes in 2020
I think you're underestimating how many pretend -Bernie fans there are and how frequently they're going to act. I think they're the poop in the pool. Not a lot of volume but the pool is still ruined for everyone else.
And I think you're overestimating some legitimate Bernie fans' sense of tribalism. Hopefully Bernie himself will actually do something about it this time when it happens. And it's already starting.
Its like they think any criticism is going to get out of control and turn into cancel x person.Can't believe that shitty Pelosi BLM thread earlier. As if criticism means we're going to abandon her or are cutting ties.
Why does it have to be all or nothing. She gave a bad response. She can use it as a learning opportunity by listening to the BLM community.
It scares me when people feel like they cannot criticize their own.
I said something similar in the other thread, but I think you capture some important additional nuances, well said....they've conducted such a successful campaign against liberals and socialism by basically making it seem crazy and fringe, dangerous even, that keeps people from seriously considering these ideas / concepts. But then they go and make a democratic socialist and her policy super visible and it's now getting covered by mainstream press who aren't necessarily handwaving it all away -- and when they try she clapsback with A+ social media game that only makes her seem more appealing and relatable... And these last few days a LOT of people learned some stuff about taxes that otherwise would still be in the dark.
Wow, that's really good to hear.A white upper middle class girl from my protestant christian middle school follows AOC and Ilhan Omar and likes all of their posts. I was 95% sure she was a conservative like everyone in that hell hole. She voted McCain in the 2008 straw poll we had.
college really changes some people.
Also, the wide fucking array of people from all over the country who mutually follow AOC on my instagram is wilding me out. This woman might be more Obama 2.0 than Beto.
Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
From the leftist base, I do see some uncertainty with regard to Warren's willingness/eagerness to use the 'bully pulpit' to vigorously/persuasively advocate for single-payer:We'll see how long that lasts if she starts cutting into his votes.
What I'm saying is: She may be the 2nd choice of Sanders' leftist base, but she ain't necessarily the 2nd choice of Bernie fans in general.
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/07...n-board-bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-bill/
Warren follows California Sen. Kamala Harris, who recently backed the Sanders bill at an Oakland town hall. The three senators are considered top-tier contenders for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination, should they decide to run.
Warren's support of the bill unites the two most powerful members of the party's left flank, which used to be called the "Warren wing" before being rechristened the "Sanders wing," given his surprisingly close contest with Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.
To have Sanders, Warren, and Harris on the same bill sends a signal that this is the central Democratic vehicle for health care policy reform going forward, which stretches the contours of a debate that previously excluded single-payer.
"There's a lot of potential to really grow this idea if you have six or seven Democrats all talking about why we need a single-payer system," said Josh Miller-Lewis, a spokesperson for Sanders, on the Warren endorsement. "This is a big moment." Miller-Lewis added that the bill was still being written.
Signing on to a single-payer bill with momentum may seem like an obvious political move for Warren, but it's not that simple. Warren has achieved stature in Congress; signing on to a colleague's bill rather than drafting one to her own specifications is a concession to Sanders. The move is a nod to Sanders's elevation within the progressive movement.
Indeed, embedded in Warren's letter to supporters is a note that Sanders's bill is "one way" to address health care policy. "Medicare for All is one way that we can give every single person in the country access to high quality health care," she wrote. "Everyone is covered. Nobody goes broke paying a medical bill. Families don't have to bear the costs of heartbreaking medical disasters on their own."
Warren has also had a complicated past political relationship with single-payer schemes. During her 2012 campaign for the Senate, her opponent, Republican Scott Brown, criticized her for backing single-payer, while Warren's leftist primary opponent criticized her for not backing it.
"I made a clear statement I'm the only candidate in this race who supports single-payer," Marisa DeFranco, Warren's challenger from the left, told MassLive.com. "No one disabused me of that notion." Warren never explicitly backed single-payer in that campaign, instead saying that the focus needed to be on defending the Affordable Care Act, Barack Obama's signature health care reform law.
Brown, however, based his charge of Warren's support for single-payer on a chapter in a 2008 book she co-authored with Deborah Thorne, a University of Idaho professor. In the book, "Health at Risk: America's Ailing Health System — and How to Heal It," edited by Jacob Hacker, who would later become known as the father of public option, they wrote: "We approach the health care debates from a single perspective: maintaining the financial stability of families confronting illness or injury. The most obvious solution would be universal single-payer health care."
Also, the wide fucking array of people from all over the country who mutually follow AOC on my instagram is wilding me out. This woman might be more Obama 2.0 than Beto.
Say what?
Someone NEEDS to be mentoring and getting AOC ready for a 2028 run like... Yesterday.
You merely adopted the political discourseHow do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
And I think you're overestimating some legitimate Bernie fans' sense of tribalism. Hopefully Bernie himself will actually do something about it this time when it happens. And it's already starting.
How do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
How do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
You merely adopted the political discourse
I was born in it. Molded by it.
I didn't lack a news feed until I was already a man and by then it was nothing to me but BORING