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UK: Sir Keir Starmer is the new Labour Party leader, replacing Jeremy Corbyn

PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Simon21 said:
Some people seem to have defined "the left of the party" as entirely centred on Corbyn.

Team Corbyn = The Left, Not Team Corbyn = Centrist Blairite Shills.
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It's all relative I suppose, Starmer is of the left, in the party I would describe him as centre left, in the country generally he is left.

Some might call Corbyn hard left but I don't think that label applies to people who believe in democratic principles etc.
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,729
Simon21 said:
Some people seem to have defined "the left of the party" as entirely centred on Corbyn.

Team Corbyn = The Left, Not Team Corbyn = Centrist Blairite Shills.
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It's true and pretty wild because it's something that has happened across the whole spectrum of political stances. So many centrists and right wingers view Starmer as a "Victory" and "bringing the party back to normality" but dude is almost as far to the left as Corbyn was lol.
 

Deleted member 38573

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I hope we don't forget just how radical some of Corbyns policies were

I'd like to see Starmer pick up on the 'right of first refusal' policy from 2019 for example.

I don't think he's spoken on workplace democracy at all, but don't hold me on that
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Evodelu said:
A hard pivot right is coming. Was to be expected. His softer stance on zionism was a bad sign.
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To be fair every Labour leader candidate was falling over themselves to either support Zionism or handwave the state of Israel due to being scared of being called antisemitic. Well, that or they do actually support the cause, zero-questions proposed around Palestinians.

But the general public were indeed convinced if Corbyn was catapulted into the sun, all antisemitism was over.
 
Simon21

Simon21

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Apr 25, 2018
1,134
Protome said:
It's true and pretty wild because it's something that has happened across the whole spectrum of political stances. So many centrists and right wingers view Starmer as a "Victory" and "bringing the party back to normality" but dude is almost as far to the left as Corbyn was lol.
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I don't think it should be underestimated how much many people who get classified as "centrist" value competence (or at least the impression of it) over anything else. Starmer's biggest strength for many people will be giving the appearance of being a sensible guy who knows what he's doing. His personal political philosophy will barely factor into the equation.
 
PJV3

PJV3

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Oct 25, 2017
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Philips is a bit of a plonker but if there's no space for the right of the party how do people expect to win people over outside of it. If she can't control her urges and need for publicity then he can sack her.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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PJV3 said:
Philips is a bit of a plonker but if there's no space for the right of the party how do people expect to win people over outside of it. If she can't control her urges and need for publicity then he can sack her.
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It's fine, Phillips will knife Starmer in the front if he damages the Labour party

www.theguardian.com

Labour MP Jess Phillips will 'knife Corbyn in the front' if he damages party

Birmingham MP says if general election were called now, she could not see opposition doing better than in May
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

lol

No messing with Jess, she'll stab any fucker.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Audioboxer said:
It's fine, Phillips will knife Starmer in the front if he damages the Labour party

www.theguardian.com

Labour MP Jess Phillips will 'knife Corbyn in the front' if he damages party

Birmingham MP says if general election were called now, she could not see opposition doing better than in May
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

lol

No messing with Jess, she'll stab any fucker.
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She does have an amazing amount of self belief in her importance to the party, I don't really get why, she's another David Miliband in many ways.
 
Masquerader

Masquerader

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Nov 4, 2017
1,383
PJV3 said:
Philips is a bit of a plonker but if there's no space for the right of the party how do people expect to win people over outside of it. If she can't control her urges and need for publicity then he can sack her.
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Eh, still a ridiculously stupid decision IMO. There ARE presumably better figures on the right who haven't utterly alienated everyone on the left quite as much as Phillips has. Sure, build up a broad coalition, but don't let an actively incompetent backstabber of the party get into it. She has no talent or reason to be there. She is garbage, incapable of short-term or long-term thinking, and to be quite honest is blatantly overly ambitious. Not normal ambitious, damagingly so.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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Nov 14, 2019
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PJV3 said:
She does have an amazing amount of self belief in her importance to the party, I don't really get why, she's another David Miliband in many ways.
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White feminism and a sense of self-entitlement. The latter from the school of Jo Swinson thought. If you think Corbyn was bad for Labour, going into a Jess Phillips leadership would have been "I'll go live on the Moon" bad. Thankfully she got nowhere near the nomination.
 
Tygre

Tygre

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Oct 25, 2017
11,162
Chesire, UK
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Masquerader said:
Eh, still a ridiculously stupid decision IMO. There ARE presumably better figures on the right who haven't utterly alienated everyone on the left quite as much as Phillips has. Sure, build up a broad coalition, but don't let an actively incompetent backstabber of the party get into it. She has no talent or reason to be there. She is garbage, incapable of short-term or long-term thinking, and to be quite honest is blatantly overly ambitious. Not normal ambitious, damagingly so.
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At least the brief is so narrow and limited that she's not going to have much room to manoeuvre and put her foot in it by mistake. She will have to go out of her way to cause aggro and be easy to deal with. I hope so anyway.


Tygre, I don't give a fuck what he thinks to be honest, it would be a terrible way to operate a political movement. He's partly right, Labour have struggled in Westminster sometimes, but he's also playing mind games.
 
Principate

Principate

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Oct 31, 2017
11,187
Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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Err you can't solely make opinions based on what other people like or dislike. People here have their own brains and can make judgement based on the information presented to them. Simply changing your opinions in reaction to people you don't like isn't useful or productive.
 
Zellia

Zellia

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Oct 25, 2017
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Jess Phillips is a white feminist entirely powered by her sense of self-importance but if she's less damaging in a minor cabinet role that she is (at least on paper) qualified for than sniping at the leadership from the outside, so be it.
 
Protome

Protome

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Oct 27, 2017
15,729
Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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I couldn't give less of a shit about what that lizard man's views are, Starmer's history and voting record speak for themselves in terms of how much of a lefty he is.

The man did pro bono legal work for Greenpeace ffs, he's not going to suddenly swing to the right now.
 
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Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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That's a bit like this



It's just the right-wing trying to upset/suppress the progressive vote by laughing at the fact left-wing parties across the world right now keep getting BTFO any time they try anything different.

Osborne only cares about Osborne.
 
Masquerader

Masquerader

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Nov 4, 2017
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Simon21 said:
She's been given the domestic violence brief after having spent her career pre-politics worked for Women's Aid running refuges for victims of domestic violence.
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Ah, well, my mistake then, could be worse.

I guess I'm still jaded by her comical attempts to portray herself as a leader tbh.

Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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Who gives a shit what that dickless crackhead thinks?
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

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Oct 28, 2017
2,813
I mostly see these Tories praising Starmer as one last snide dig at Corbyn/Momentum and perhaps even a deliberate attempt to sow more division on the left. It will soon shift. There's absolutely zero chance they'd be saying this if there was any prospect of an election anytime soon.

Nevertheless, I don't think what any Tory cunt says about Starmer should influence anyone's views. It is ultimately the policies he pushes for that will determine whether he is a suitable leader and based on what he's said so far I'm just not seeing a hard shift to the right coming from him.
 
Cocolina

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Oct 28, 2017
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I just hope that when a Tory politician, donor or mouthpiece looks at Starmer and says "now that's a guy we can work with!" that they're wrong. If we're to get more of this, he needs to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 

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Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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I couldn't give less of a toss about what he thinks. He's just winding people up anyway it's not like he's suddenly going to vote Labour is it.
 
beansontoast

beansontoast

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Jan 5, 2020
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Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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I'll judge the direction of the party, by the direction of the party - not based on what Osborne says. Anyway as long as Labour policies are good, I don't see why its a bad thing that those on the centre and the right might be more receptive to the leadership responsible for selling those policies. Regardless of the contents of the 2017 and 2019 manifestos, Corbyn generated such an image among those on the centre and the right, that many of them were totally unwilling to engage with the policies itself; perceptions matter. In 2019 Labour failed to bring over Tory remainers to a remotely comparable degree to how the Tories managed to bring over Labour leavers and the image of Corbyn and his faction among the Tory remainers was definitely part of it.
 

Ravensmash

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Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Tygre said:
I'm astounded by the number of people in here happy with a Labour Cabinet and Labour Leader who have the backing of George "I caused 100k excess deaths with my policy of Austerity" Osborne.
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Quick, someone tell Labour to ditch Keir and hold another leadership contest.

And then let's ask him for his opinion and hope he says he hates it.

Otherwise, we're doing it all again!
 

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I expected Starmer to be shit, but I didn't expect it to happen so quickly.

Oh well. I won't vote for Labour if they support an apartheid state.
 
Teddy

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Oct 26, 2017
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null said:
Now he just needs to come out and say he wants a two state solution but won't recognize Palastine as a state and we're back to business as usual.
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As the shadow cabinet, I don't think he can do anything to authorise recognising Palastine as a state, he is literally limited in that regard because he is not in government.
 
Temascos

Temascos

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Oct 27, 2017
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IpKaiFung said:
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I'm probably not understanding this right, but this reads like the antisemetism allegations, while very real and unacceptable in any circumstance, were intentionally politicised within Labour to help remove Corbyn. Am I reading this right? I don't want to be all "Corbyn was sabotaged!" with something like this.
 

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Xun said:
Fuck this shit.
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The decision or the report? It's seemingly a report designed to make Corbyn look better than facts suggest but who the fuck knows anymore.

"The proper examination of the full evidence will show that as Head of Disputes and Acting Director, I did my level best to tackle the poison of anti-Jewish racism which was growing under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

"A highly selective, retrospective review of the Party's poor record, not deemed good enough for submission by the Party's own lawyers and conducted in the dying days of a Corbyn's leadership in order to justify their inaction, simply cannot be relied upon."
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IpKaiFung

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Temascos said:
I'm probably not understanding this right, but this reads like the antisemetism allegations, while very real and unacceptable in any circumstance, were intentionally politicised within Labour to help remove Corbyn. Am I reading this right? I don't want to be all "Corbyn was sabotaged!" with something like this.
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Potentially
 
Semfry

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Oct 25, 2017
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After signing up to the party recently I really want to give a Kier a chance rather than just writing Labour off as dropping it progressive stances and leaving (and I can't exactly say any of the other leadership candidates were any more inspiring), but this recent stuff isn't exactly encouraging in that regard.

Though the real test for me will be when the media invitably goes for him, because that will be a sign of how well he can fight back against that (if he will), and, if he's willing too, I can let some undesirable things pass if he's willing to bite back against the enemy that is the press rather than letting their bullshit run free like Corbyn did.
 
Pall Mall

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Oct 25, 2017
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Audioboxer said:
Welcome to most left-wing parties in Europe, completely unwilling or unable to tackle that topic with the minimum nuance it requires to promote human rights. Soo scared the right-wing will call them antisemitic if they dare.
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This was a very strange phenomenon to me as an American when I was living in the UK. Being against Israeli policy met me with lots of jeers of being anti-Semitic which I had not encountered at all in the US.
 
Audioboxer

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Cleros said:
This was a very strange phenomenon to me as an American when I was living in the UK. Being against Israeli policy met me with lots of jeers of being anti-Semitic which I had not encountered at all in the US.
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Didn't Trump try to pass a bill where to be critical of the state of Israel was antisemitism? I might have totally misread that.

I've seen other Americans say Bernie would've got more shit, but the bad faith actors never really found a way to call a Jewish man antisemitic.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

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PJV3 said:
The whole thing is so murky and fucked up that I doubt we will ever get this period sorted for a long, long time. Corbyn was weak in his response but there was so much obvious political fuckery going on in the background.
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Usually when a man tries most of his life to be decent, even when he fails or makes mistakes or has bad judgement, he'll likely be trying to fix them or work on them.

Not that much can be said for many other men who are genuine wolves in sheep's clothing.

The fact that Corbyn is and will forever be seen as more of a hate symbol in the UK than Boris, is going to be pretty shameful for the UK history books.
 
Bobson Dugnutt

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getting munged by the left for not hating the sight of israel outright and wanting to put the issue away for a while. getting munged by the right and centrists that can somehow never find any fault in tory talking points for daring to question the inference that nhs staff wouldn't try and be careful with their use of ppe, like they're just wiping their arses with surgical gloves. obviously one is more is less of a faux scandal than the other and kind of a big deal, but still, promising start.

hopefully just twitter bubble shit, probably not though. who'd be a labour leader
 
Audioboxer

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Looks like Starmer has his work cut out for him. Seems like the report will leak in full.

Good luck Labour.
 
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