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JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,812
Tbh only 2 options which will leave apprx half the country bitter and twisted.

Hard or no Brexit

Any shambled deal that straddles either is a monumentous waste of time.

Really needs another vote with that level of clarity ...half of the country will argue we had that and half will say we didnt .....

Fucking mess tbh .....doom rhetoric and hyperbole from both sides ...

Either way, imo, everyone is more likley to be more pissed off eventually. I don't think there's any realistic option that will make anyone happy right now, whether it be Remainers or Leavers.

How would May even be able to turn face and begin legitimise another referendum ? I mean she's not going to come out and say she's royally ballsed up negotations is she ? Unless she can successfully argue that she feels the will of the electorate demands another referendum.
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,570
Dangleberry
Is there a non-terrible deal that's even possible?

The UK doesn't want full integration and it doesn't want hard brexit. So you get something like this..

No its impossible now. Its either an election or a second vote. Either way the country is going to be divided for a long time to come. The leave voters seem unwilling to face the reality of how devastating this is going to be.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Oh how I'd laugh if we got a snap election and the SNP said a majority vote for them in Scotland and it's unilateral independence time.

And yeah I know they're not going to do that, but it'd be fun to see the outcome, which I sort of believe probably would be for independence..


What a shit show Brexit is. Seems like this will be dead in the water basically already... So then.. Rees Mogg and BoJo spunking their pants trying to push through a No Deal that even worse than this shite deal.

Fun times!

Just to state (GET IT?) the obvious, Scotland would never be accepted in the Union if it declared its independence in unilateral fashion.

Not to mention that N10 could probably curbstomp that with the quickness (as one would expect) and there doesn't seem any desire on the indie side for the required bloodshed.

Last year's carnival of imbecility @ Catalonia was both the preface and the conclusion for that line of magical thinking.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,864
London
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.

I think it's all bad, i didn't like the idea of Scotland breaking away either but i wished them well if they did.
But you can apply the reverse of that to the pro UK union-Anti EU people as well.
 

Zutroy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
On one hand, the complete shit show is going to ramp up.

On the other, at least the Tory fighting shit show will be fun to watch.
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.

Erm, the Scottish voted to stay in the UK, and most British citizens wanted that to be the outcome.

You must know some proper fucking cunts if you hear that every day: excited to sign off on the rights of millions of children to live and work across Europe? You are a traitor to the British people and a national disgrace.
 
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funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Its going to be a absolute shit show.

But at least something will finally happen.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,812
Let me get this straight: the apparent "argument" of some (or majority, or whatever) Leavers is that they don't want to be ruled by "Brussels", and yet now on the other hand, they have issue of NI being "ruled by Dublin" now ?
 

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
No its impossible now. Its either an election or a second vote. Either way the country is going to be divided for a long time to come. The leave voters seem unwilling to face the reality of how devastating this is going to be.

The vote leavers were blatantly lied to about what was possible. Johnson and the leave campaign should be held to account for the lies peddled. A whole bunch of people should be impeached or whatever the equivalent is over here. The right wing media should also be held to account.

Bottom line is, people were voting for something that simply wasn't possible. That's the true crime here.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,076
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.

Ignoring the first part of your post.

Why will it be better?
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.
Yes we leave the UK, stay/rejoin Europe where the sane European nations reside and watch jolly ho fucktards Brexit Britain collapse into a 51st state dystopia.

Seems pretty straight forward to me!

Your justifications for Brexit, sovereignty etc can surely be understood in terms of Scotland/UK?
nC8qcH
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,812
Even with everything that has been going on, today the EC said that we won't need visas to travel in the EU, even if there's no deal. Fair enough, it may be in hopes of reciprocity, but even then...

Kind of siding with this view. The can kicking contest may be about to become a hot potato one.

I was thinking along the same lines: May realising how bad the situation, and purposely getting such a bad deal, that Parliament will have to reject it. Not that it makes her come out looking any better.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Just to state (GET IT?) the obvious, Scotland would never be accepted in the Union if it declared its independence in unilateral fashion.

Not to mention that N10 could probably curbstomp that with the quickness (as one would expect) and there doesn't seem any desire on the indie side for the required bloodshed.

Last year's carnival of imbecility @ Catalonia was both the preface and the conclusion for that line of magical thinking.
What's Catalonia got to do with anything? Scotland's a country in a Union and keeps getting royally shafted by its partner (get told to to Vote No to remain in EU, get taken out of the EU anyway!), Catalonia does not have the same status whatsoever.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
What's Catalonia got to do with anything? Scotland's a country in a Union and keeps getting royally shafted by its partner (get told to to Vote No to remain in EU, get taken out of the EU anyway!), Catalonia does not have the same status whatsoever.
The keyword here would be unilateral.

Unless I'm missing something really huge, Scotland can't just push itself away from the UK. I made sure to quote that bit because it struck me.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,070
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?
 
Nov 20, 2017
793
What's Catalonia got to do with anything? Scotland's a country in a Union and keeps getting royally shafted by its partner (get told to to Vote No to remain in EU, get taken out of the EU anyway!), Catalonia does not have the same status whatsoever.

I wish I could take every voting age adult in Scotland into a room and run them through a presentation that demonstrates how the Yes vote in the Indie Ref was basically the template for how Leave won Brexit. They even co-opted project fear ffs.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,949
Metro Detroit
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?
It's hard to say what will end up happening.

This deal does not look likely to pass parliament. and then the UK is stuck with a huge pile of shit running through their hands. And if they cannot agree on anything crash & burn without a deal looks ever more likely come April 2019.
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,965
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.
Why will it be better? Details, please.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
The keyword here would be unilateral.

Unless I'm missing something really huge, Scotland can't just push itself away from the UK. I made sure to quote that bit because it struck me.
Well even Westminster accepted that Scotland holds the sovereignty over itself. If the people (via election) vote for something then they get it. Internationally accepted protocol that was further ratified by a vote in the UK parliament a few months that ago I remember..
 

GrizzleBoy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,762
Quick question.

Why isn't every single Briton disgusted to their core that the fucking twats who pushed the country into leaving the EU ran a million miles when it came to actually being in charge of delivering Brexit?

Andrea Leadsom.

Nigel Farage.

Michael Gove.

Jacob Reese Mogg.

Boris Johnson.

Liam Fox.

David Davis.


The list goes on.


All these pricks wanted us out of the EU, but none of them stepped up to show us how their plan to do it will work.

They all left it to someone who voted to remain to be in charge.

And even when May tried to get arseholes like Johnson and Davis into positions where they would be able to steer the ship, they simply did fuck all, got fuck all done and jumped ship when it was clear that nothing was going to work.


Why aren't all these people hated?

Shouldn't EVERYONE hate these people? Why do any single one of them have any credibility left?
 

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,965
Now those fucking cunts Johnson and Rees Mogg admitting the UK was sovereign all a-fucking-long and their biggest dog-whistle has been shown to be just that while fucking the entire country up for generations to come. Fuck this shit. I've half a mind to grab a pitchfork and hunt these fucks down. Enough.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and a one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?
The political situation and the public discourse in the UK is not conductive to the country rejoining the EU in a short while. Even among remainers there are many that resent that the EU is not being more "helpful" in ensuring a deal that is somehow owed to the UK because of reasons.

The polarisation is extreme and minds won't be changed in just two electoral cycles unless a brutal flu changes the demographics like the Black Death. It's either that or people being enlightened after seeing the error of their ways once the NHS starts getting chopped.

That said, I think there's a real chance that a *very* pro-European movement could arise from this mess, but it's going to take some time.
 

DazzlerIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,790
What did Ireland do to deserve our destiny being in the hands of such dangerous incompetents?

Going on nearly 1,000 years we've been putting up with this shit
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,812
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?

Technically, a future Parliament could simply repeal any withdrawal Act (I say "simply", but...). All they would need is a majority of the vote in the Commons (I say "all" they would need... you get the point, lol).


Quick question.

Why isn't every single Briton disgusted to their core that the fucking twats who pushed the country into leaving the EU ran a million miles when it came to actually being in charge of delivering Brexit?

...

Why aren't all these people hated?

Shouldn't EVERYONE hate these people? Why do any single one of them have any credibility left?

Because the majority of their supporters believe all the BS that's fed to them, the same way Trump supporters do.
"oh it wasn't his fault", or "he took a political stand against the government by resigning" etc. People are willing to believe anything in order to stay in denial.
 

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
This will never get through. Even if by some sheer fucking stroke of madness it does, the House of Lords would veto that shit so fucking hard.

You got to hand it to the EU though. From DAY 1 people were talking about how fucked up the Good Friday Agreement was going to become with Brexit. Not one person in the UK wants a return to The Troubles, but from the very start, the Torries wanted to live in some crazy world, where it could have Brexit, but NI still get's all the perks. Actually it wasn't crazy, it was because that snap election was only won for them by going in with the DUP. A notoriously bigoted party. And now that deal is totally fucking them.

I predicted a vote of no confidence before the end of the year, if she tries to push this through, my prediction will not only be right, but I think the whole government will fall apart. Boris is an idiot, he's the only possible successor they have and he isn't even that popular within his own party.
 

TheOMan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
UK leaving EU = bad, the country will crumble
Scotland leaving UK = BEST THING EVER WE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF

can't wait to leave the EU like I voted to do. Every day I hear people say "the sooner we leave the EU the better" and I agree.

Hahahahaha - can you elaborate on why it would be better? Please?
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,870
Technically, a future Parliament could simply repeal any withdrawal Act (I say "simply", but...). All they would need is a majority of the vote in the Commons (I say "all" they would need... you get the point, lol).
Repealing the withdrawal act will do fuck all. Once the Art. 50 period is over the UK will have to reapply like other countries have to.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,949
Metro Detroit
This will never get through. Even if by some sheer fucking stroke of madness it does, the House of Lords would veto that shit so fucking hard.

You got to hand it to the EU though. From DAY 1 people were talking about how fucked up the Good Friday Agreement was going to become with Brexit. Not one person in the UK wants a return to The Troubles, but from the very start, the Torries wanted to live in some crazy world, where it could have Brexit, but NI still get's all the perks. Actually it wasn't crazy, it was because that snap election was only won for them by going in with the DUP. A notoriously bigoted party. And now that deal is totally fucking them.

I predicted a vote of no confidence before the end of the year, if she tries to push this through, my prediction will not only be right, but I think the whole government will fall apart. Boris is an idiot, he's the only possible successor they have and he isn't even that popular within his own party.
I will need receipts for that, there have been plenty of brexiters that have shrugged that off.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,748
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?
No they can reenter but will need approval from other members which I suppose wouldn't be hard to get. But most likely, UK will have to concede and accept Euro and also open their borders totally because it's unlikely that the are ever getting the fantastic deal that they already had i.e. keeping the pound and controlling their own borders.

When I say controlling their own borders I mean eventhough UK is in the EU everyone coming to it from EU is still required to go through border security be they an EU citizen or non EU. And if they are non EU citizens then they need a separate visa for UK. In contrast if you are in the Schengen/Euro done you can cross borders without checks even if you are non EU citizen...as long as you have permission to be in the Schengen area granted by any one of the Schengen countries. So if in the future UK decides to enter then they won't be able to control their borders at all and non EU Nationals who got a permit to enter say somewhere like Poland for instance would be able to freely enter UK. This is all a guess ofc, but it's based on the my observation that it took a great deal for UK during the Thatcher era get the special agreement it had with EU and EU will try to avoid doing that and giving UK this much power/control again.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,812
Repealing the withdrawal act will do fuck all. Once the Art. 50 period is over the UK will have to reapply like other countries have to.
Let's hope that either there's an election, or referendum before then, or the deadline is extended.

I will need receipts for that, there have been plenty of brexiters that have shrugged that off.
Yep, the "I would rather die than be ruled by Brussels" mentality.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
As a Canadian that isn't entirely sure how the British party climate is right now, what are the odds that a Brexit goes through, the situation continues/degenerates for 5-10 years, and one of the parties eventually starts campaigning on re-entering the EU, after people have been unemployed/Had NHS dismantled/Gone into curry withdrawal for a while? Is the door forever closed on the UK rejoining after this happens?

Going by what some Conservative MPs have been saying on the radio, they know this won't stick for long. They keep saying stuff like how this the right thing for Theresa May's government but the situation could change later, so it really comes down to whether anyone even wants to go through this song and dance again.

Either way I don't see a vote to rejoin the EU happening for another 40 years. It took about that long after the first referendum back in the 70s.
 
Oct 25, 2017
828
Why aren't all these people hated?

Shouldn't EVERYONE hate these people? Why do any single one of them have any credibility left?

Too many right-wing cunts in this country who are told by a rabid right-wing, Eurosceptic press to lay pretty much ALL the blame on the EU - that it's the EU purportedly making practical solutions impossible. You only need to hold your breath and look at any Sun editorial on a daily basis to see what the narrative is. So once the narrative of an oppressive EU is further cemented, the likes of Boris and his ilk angrily posturing despite having no concrete alternative solutions is all that's needed to reflect these people's own ignorant huff and puff.

Thankfully these band of frauds are hated by reasonable people with a steady head on their shoulders.

EDIT: Apparently it's a hellish coalition of the EU and the Remoaners conspiring to sabotage the Brexit talks!
 

Deleted member 31104

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,572
Soooooooo

Let's go through next steps.

TONIGHT: May is going to be meeting Cabinet members individually to either be assured of their confidence or beg them to not be stupid.

POSSIBLE OUTCOMES:
Likely: Most/all cabinet members keep their powders dry for tomorrow's Cabinet meeting.
Unlikely: One or more cabinet members resign either at the meeting or soon after once they've read enough of the draft to know what May is going for.
Very unlikely: Enough cabinet members resign to trigger May's downfall.

TOMORROW MORNING: A morning of brief/counter-brief and the beginning of the Downing Street machine to try and convince Parliament/the public to back the deal. Following that, at 12pm, Barnier's presser.

Likely: Thunder but no lightning. Barnier's press conference + Irish noises are that this is still technically a draft proposal and thus if anyone's unhappy about it, maybe it'll change.
Unlikely: Things begin to go south prior to the cabinet meeting at 2pm and it's clear we're heading toward doom for May.
ALT: Barnier's presser is a gigantic bucket of cold water and May is humilated.
Very unlikely: We have enough resignations at this point for May to be writing her resignation speech.

TOMORROW AFTERNOON: By this time, enough leaked details will have come out for all sides to be sounding off properly. The cabinet meeting will go ahead unless shenanigans have killed the government.
Likely: An extremely, extremely difficult meeting that May scrapes through thanks to the words "draft" and "well we can delay everyone knifing me until Parliament vote it down, yeah?"
Unlikely: A Hestletine-style walkout.
Very unlikely: A large-scale walkout, or an open revolt, and we once again go to the expectation of May's resignation.

I think there will be cabinet resignations, maybe tonight almost certainly tomorrow. There's going to be a bit of a race from the 2nd tier Brexiter cabinet ministers (Mordaunt, Leadsom etc) to get the first mover brownie points for the inevitable leadership election.
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,081
Quick question.

Why isn't every single Briton disgusted to their core that the fucking twats who pushed the country into leaving the EU ran a million miles when it came to actually being in charge of delivering Brexit?

Andrea Leadsom.

Nigel Farage.

Michael Gove.

Jacob Reese Mogg.

Boris Johnson.

Liam Fox.

David Davis.


The list goes on.


All these pricks wanted us out of the EU, but none of them stepped up to show us how their plan to do it will work.

They all left it to someone who voted to remain to be in charge.

And even when May tried to get arseholes like Johnson and Davis into positions where they would be able to steer the ship, they simply did fuck all, got fuck all done and jumped ship when it was clear that nothing was going to work.


Why aren't all these people hated?

Because whatever their sins might be, they're better than the terrorist-supporting anti-semitic socialist Jeremy Corbyn, who doesn't respect the veterans and is trying to sabotage Brexit talks.
 
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