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Oct 26, 2017
17,485
impeachment will never be politically viable until we route GOP from the senate.
The House impeaches with a simple majority vote, the Senate removes with a 2/3 majority vote. It's been possible since the new House was sworn in, just not politically viable because without substantial justification it would only strengthen Trump's base by playing right into his narrative. Due to the contents of the Mueller report being very damaging and the incompetency of Barr it's quickly turning into a smart move for 2020.
 

Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177
Just issue the subpoena immediately. Why is this something that needs to be huddled up on?
I don't get this either. Just start with subpoenas. It's not an insult. It's exactly how any other person in the country gets summoned to court to testify. There's nothing mean or shameful about it. When people refuse, hold them in contempt. That's literally just how the system is supposed to work.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
America, fix your shit. This administration just shows how broken the government is for facing consequences.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,895
The House impeaches with a simple majority vote, the Senate removes with a 2/3 majority vote. It's been possible since the new House was sworn in, just not politically viable because without substantial justification it would only strengthen Trump's base by playing right into his narrative. Due to the contents of the Mueller report being very damaging and the incompetency of Barr it's quickly turning into a smart move for 2020.

Even that's not inherently true. People keep repeating this but the Kavanaugh hearings should have shown people that you can fight a losing battle and still win the upcoming elections. It could in fact embolden Democrats to come out and vote. We have no idea. The majority of Democrats already want him impeached.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
America, fix your shit. This administration just shows how broken the government is for facing consequences.

It was all a gentleman's agreement.
Its amazing how far it went before it all fell apart. Dems have 0% power to do anything. I mean, its shocking how there are no systems in place to prevent a Fascist from legally rising. The admin doesn't have to answer to the house, at all.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Nixon was never impeached.

And Trump hasn't been either, what's your point? Nixon wasn't impeached because he was going to be impeached, no shit.

I was specifically referring to the fact that Nixon's impeachment was also seemingly "politically unviable" until it wasn't. Ergo, the impeachment process itself is such an x-factor that you can't just assume impeachment is doomed to failure and that it is destined to bounce back to you. There's way too much smoke and fire above and beneath the surface where Dems should be pre-worrying about bounce back.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,332
And Trump hasn't been either, what's your point? Nixon wasn't impeached because he was going to be impeached, no shit.

I was specifically referring to the fact that Nixon's impeachment was also seemingly "politically unviable" until it wasn't. Ergo, the impeachment process itself is such an x-factor that you can't just assume impeachment is doomed to failure and that it is destined to bounce back to you. There's way too much smoke and fire above and beneath the surface where Dems should be pre-worrying about bounce back.
Nixon's impeachment became viable because of findings that came out during the Watergate hearings. Which is literally the part of the process we're in now. So using Nixon, who was never impeached, as an example of why Democrats should impeach Trump while they're in the middle of the process that lead to Nixon's impeachment being a popular enough position for Republicans to tell him to resign, because Nixon's impeachment eventually became a popular enough position for Republicans to tell him to resign, is a nonsense comparison.

"Chicken takes a long time to thaw when its frozen."

"Jimmy cooked a chicken that started out frozen yesterday and it tasted fine. You should just cook yours right now, otherwise you don't know how to cook."
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Nixon's impeachment became viable because of findings that came out during the Watergate hearings. Which is literally the part of the process we're in now. So using Nixon, who was never impeached, as an example of why Democrats should impeach Trump while they're in the middle of the process that lead to Nixon's impeachment being a popular enough position for Republicans to tell him to resign, because Nixon's impeachment eventually became a popular enough position for Republicans to tell him to resign, is a nonsense comparison.

Trump is already far more unpopular than Nixon and there's a certain ground he will never reach due to the partisan divide; we don't need the equivalent pre- impeachment inquiry hearings. Trump is already an unindicted co-conspirator in at least 1 ongoing felony case, and the redacted Mueller report has enough meat in it to go forward.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,718
It was all a gentleman's agreement.
Its amazing how far it went before it all fell apart. Dems have 0% power to do anything. I mean, its shocking how there are no systems in place to prevent a Fascist from legally rising. The admin doesn't have to answer to the house, at all.

Totally ignorant with no knowledge of the process here, but from where I'm standing watching all this go down the people calling for a subpoena just feel like the kid invoking a "triple-dog dare." After everything that's happened so far, why should I believe the Republicans can't just refuse even that political silver bullet while the Dems just act shocked and bicker about the "right time" to do literally anything?
 
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Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Total outsider with no knowledge of the process here, but from where I'm standing watching all this go down the people calling for a subpoena just feel like the kid invoking a "triple-dog dare." After everything that's happened so far, why should I believe the Republicans can't just refuse even that political silver bullet while the Dems just act shocked and bicker about the "right time" to do literally anything?

Damn, its that obvious to outsiders? Christ.
correct, republicans don't have to answer to the system. Its a pretty significant failure we're witnessing. They've all gone full party over people/country and are supporting fascists, and the dems can't do anything besides clever tweets and sound bytes for CNN's millionaire anchors to regurgitate. If the lawsuits which will come with subpoenas go anywhere, they have the courts. Not just the supreme court either, but loyal judges. Like in the Manafort case. This is how it allll starts, but dems are too busy with their thumbs firmly up their asses to at least make an all out war on fascism. Hey, it might not work, but its better than nothing, and could possibly turn public support, get people out in the streets, shutting shit down, work strikes, anything. But no...

Nancy gave a sly clap to Trump...
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,718
Damn, its that obvious to outsiders? Christ.
correct, republicans don't have to answer to the system. Its a pretty significant failure we're witnessing. They've all gone fascist, and the dems can't do anything besides clever tweets and sound bytes for CNN's millionaire anchors to regurgitate.

Bad choice of words, sorry. I mean I'm an outsider to the process. I'm stuck watching the country burn from the inside with the rest of you.
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,739
I think its the House's job and duty to impeach. If the Senate does nothing in the face of public evidence, thats on them. I mean it sucks for us but its not a reason to let this mountain of shit slide.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
Sounds like a giant pussy to me. Better watch out, Trump's getting his tiny hands ready to grab him.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Dems are gigantic cowards who are all talk. So sick of their hemming and hawing.
 

Books

Alt account
Banned
Feb 4, 2019
2,180
Republicans looking for the television soundbite. Democrats looking for the social media soundbite.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,687
Just issue the subpoena immediately. Why is this something that needs to be huddled up on?
A subpoena doesn't just happen by saying the word "subpoena." You've got to write up the damn thing for one, but you've also got to be able to prove in a court that you tried multiple avenues of getting the witness to comply before resorting to a subpoena as a last resort.

in any event it's kind of a moot point because Barr can just ignore the subpoena and let it get tied up in court for however long. Not saying Dems shouldn't do it but the idea that there's a silver bullet here they're just sleeping on is ridiculous.
 

darkwing

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,089
A subpoena doesn't just happen by saying the word "subpoena." You've got to write up the damn thing for one, but you've also got to be able to prove in a court that you tried multiple avenues of getting the witness to comply before resorting to a subpoena as a last resort.

in any event it's kind of a moot point because Barr can just ignore the subpoena and let it get tied up in court for however long. Not saying Dems shouldn't do it but the idea that there's a silver bullet here they're just sleeping on is ridiculous.

true, there will be no real consequence if he ignores it, for sure his reputation would be damaged, but i don't think he cares
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,687
true, there will be no real consequence if he ignores it, for sure his reputation would be damaged, but i don't think he cares
Right. I mean that's really the fucking abyss of government we're looking at here. The House can subpoena Barr, he can ignore it. Dems can hold him in contempt, it can't be enforced in any way. Dems can take the subpoena to court, Barr if he's so inclined can fight it all the way to SCOTUS where, hey look at that, five Republican hacks ready to rule in his favor. There are no consequences for him to reckon with here.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
It is not true that Barr can just ignore the subpoena and let it go to court. Congress has the power to drag Barrs ass before them in Handcuffs and throw his ass in jail. Does any of them have the balls to do such a move is the better question
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,687
It is not true that Barr can just ignore the subpoena and let it go to court. Congress has the power to drag Barrs ass before them in Handcuffs and throw his ass in jail. Does any of them have the balls to do such a move is the better question
And who's enforcing that?
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
And who's enforcing that?
Capital Police led by the Sergeant at Arms would be dispatched to make the arrest and bring the person before Congress. Hasn't been done in like 85 years so it would be a significant escalation but at this point with the Trump administrations stonewalling it feels very much appropriate especially if its the Attorney General brought in with handcuffs on
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Congress also has the inherent power of contempt. Barr is not protected from that power.

Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation)

Some of his behavior today would not have flown in the House.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
So how long will it take for litigation to occur if Democrats try to enforce the subpoena? A court will have to rule at some point. Just hoping it won't be a year.

On that note, what was Nixon's AG John Mitchell's timeline of going to jail?
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,339
It's crazy seeing how organized this corrupt organization can be sometimes. The democrats are embarrassing with this. It's obvious that republicans have a plan for every one of those hearings, while it seems like the democrats have their own agendas.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,337
Pencils Vania
Welp I mean or course he's going to skip it. What fucking reason does he have to go when apparently there's no consequences for any of this shit.

He should be immediately subpoenaed, but I have absolutely no faith in the people in charge of doing so. Just more shrugged shoulders while our highest office continues to be completely compromised. Our country is a joke.
 

Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177
A subpoena doesn't just happen by saying the word "subpoena." You've got to write up the damn thing for one, but you've also got to be able to prove in a court that you tried multiple avenues of getting the witness to comply before resorting to a subpoena as a last resort.
Is this true? I'm totally quoting Wikipedia here, but:
As announced in Wilkinson v. United States,[7] a Congressional committee must meet three requirements for its subpoenas to be "legally sufficient." First, the committee's investigation of the broad subject area must be authorized by its chamber; second, the investigation must pursue "a valid legislative purpose" but does not need to involve legislation and does not need to specify the ultimate intent of Congress; and third, the specific inquiries must be pertinent to the subject matter area that has been authorized for investigation.
i.e. you're under no obligation to try other means of getting the information first. I think this "last resort" thing is just another one of those niceities that people do sometimes.
 

_ifigured

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,306
Can't take another scorch like what Hirono dealt out. Barr is just as bad as every republican in Congress, willing to suck liquid shit out of trump's ass when anyone with half a brain can see crimes were committed. I wish the worst blights upon them all. Fake ass americans should spontaneously combust anytime they try to utter the words law and order.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,972
Philly ❤️
D3WVEzzWAAE4f49.jpg
Dead
 

JetmanJay

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
As much as I'd love for them to issue a subpoena for Barr's ass to show up and answer questions, doesn't a specific reason have to be in place for the subpoena? Like to prove if he or someone else did something wrong concerning the Report. I mean we know that isn't going to happen. All he's doing is getting made to look like an idiot over and over while Dems go HAM on him. Which I love, of course, but unless we expect him to give new info concerning all of this, they can't force him to come without explaining why, can they?
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
Well, let's see if Democrats have the balls to subpoena. Because the admin is basically daring them to at this point.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
Barr is there to obstruct (lol puns) as much as possible, delay and say no and make things as hard as possible for the judiciary committees and anyone else who doesn't kiss Trump's ass. He knows none of this will stand up to scrutiny, he knew his shitty 4-page summary and all his dumb tactics only have very limited shelf lives. He just wants to come up with whatever bullshit scheme he can to throw any wrench at the procedures.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Barr won't be able to eat out anywhere except luxury cigar and yacht clubs after this. The only circles he'll be able to hang out in will be billionaire retreats, gated compounds and private casinos on exotic islands. The only people he'll be able to hang out with are powerful movers and shakers who will worship him as a hero. Good luck Barr. Your goose is cooked but only after being force fed until its liver is as silken and delicious as a pliant young ballet phenom.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
Subpoena- then contempt of Congress to jail him until he testifies. Only way to get these lawless folks to cooperate.
 

BetterWorldz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
319
Honestly I'd do the same in a country where no one has the balls to enforce the rule of law anymore anyway. Who cares.
 

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,189
As much as I'd love for them to issue a subpoena for Barr's ass to show up and answer questions, doesn't a specific reason have to be in place for the subpoena? Like to prove if he or someone else did something wrong concerning the Report. I mean we know that isn't going to happen. All he's doing is getting made to look like an idiot over and over while Dems go HAM on him. Which I love, of course, but unless we expect him to give new info concerning all of this, they can't force him to come without explaining why, can they?
His first misleading summary, his misleading press conference, today's testimony, his lie in his previous testimony, Mueller's letter. I think there's a strong case for them to make. They could also wait for Mueller to testify and use it against him.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,895
Can't take another scorch like what Hirono dealt out. Barr is just as bad as every republican in Congress, willing to suck liquid shit out of trump's ass when anyone with half a brain can see crimes were committed. I wish the worst blights upon them all. Fake ass americans should spontaneously combust anytime they try to utter the words law and order.

Hirono: Whether it's legal or not, do you think it's right for the president to threaten a witness?
Barr: buuhhh...*stammer*stammer*
Hirono: Is it right for a president to instruct somebody to lie?
Barr: duurrrr...
Graham: These personal attacks have gotten out of hand!!

.....truly bizarre.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Barr's ridiculous contortions of basic legal principles is the kind of thing you'd expect from a Sovereign Citizen arrest compilation.

"If I think you're not legally a cop then I don't have to obey your illegal....AWwwwwww DONT TAZE ME BRO!!!! YAAAaRGH"
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Even that's not inherently true. People keep repeating this but the Kavanaugh hearings should have shown people that you can fight a losing battle and still win the upcoming elections. It could in fact embolden Democrats to come out and vote. We have no idea. The majority of Democrats already want him impeached.

One of my friends rightly points out that even a knowing loss in impeachment proceedings is good because 1. you get all that info from investigations out into the open 2. as Trump's reputation sinks among the general public you get to nail anyone protecting him as complicit / part of the coverup. It's not just about getting him and his ilk out of the office right this second!
 

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,189
I don't know if they already did but they should ask Rosenstein to testify, he kept mentioning him today.